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post #1 of 30 Old 07-19-2007, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

I am about at at my wits end, but maybe someone can help. I just upgraded my AVR to the Onkyo 805. I love the 805 in every way except one. It seems to introduce a minimum audio delay of about 45 msec - perhaps as part of a blind adoption the HDMI 1.3 standard. This delay is on top of whatever else is happening and cannot be eliminated even by setting the variable audio delay menu to 0 msec. This is a real problem when watching certain HD sources - particularly ones like TNTHD from Comcast - where the source already includes an audio delay. In this case there is a very very annoying lip synch problem with audio LAGGING video no matter what I do. So why am I here with an audio problem? Well my bright idea is to find an inexpensive way to introduce a compensating VIDEO delay into the signal. I find lots of options for adding audio delay - including up to 200msec from the 805 - but how do reduce an audio delay? I do not need video processing per se - my display is an Infocus 7205 native 720p, and all of my sources are 720P. But what if I introduced an up upscaling of my 720p output to 1080i (or 1080p) and let my infocus downscale back to 720p. Might this introduce enough additional video delay to balance the audio problem without unduly degrading the video? Is there a cheap method for doing this - say an old ISCAN HD? I know it seems like an expensive hassle to accommodate a problem in a $1000 receiver that should not even exist -- but I do love the 805 and do not really want to go to the trouble of tearing everything apart to return the receiver.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
Greg
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-19-2007, 10:06 PM
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You have not stated how the video is connected -- are you "direct to the InFocus"? If yes, you may try running your video throughthe Onkyo to see whether it has a buil it and compensating delay...of course, this COULD result in a degraded video signal.

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post #3 of 30 Old 07-19-2007, 10:48 PM
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I just purchased the Onkyo 805 and I subscribe to Comcast HD. The 805 beauty nicely solved my chronic lip synch problem I was experiencing with my Denon 1803. In fact, I hardly take the receiver's lip synch adjustment off 0ms.

Perhaps the difference is my Comcast box (Scientific America) doesn't have hdmi out. So I'm using component out from the cable box, routed through the 805, and then component out to my Samsung dlp. I experimented with component in/hdmi out, and didn't hear/see any advantage (I'm looking forward to purchasing a blue-ray player to take advantage of hdmi in/out!).

I can't duplicate your experience, so I wouldn't rule out a defective unit ... either the receiver or the Comcast box.
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-20-2007, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

You have not stated how the video is connected -- are you "direct to the InFocus"? If yes, you may try running your video throughthe Onkyo to see whether it has a buil it and compensating delay...of course, this COULD result in a degraded video signal.

Sorry - I have tried all possible combinations - component and HDMI through the AVR and direct to the Infocus. Same outcome.
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-20-2007, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieM View Post

I just purchased the Onkyo 805 and I subscribe to Comcast HD. The 805 beauty nicely solved my chronic lip synch problem I was experiencing with my Denon 1803. In fact, I hardly take the receiver's lip synch adjustment off 0ms.

Perhaps the difference is my Comcast box (Scientific America) doesn't have hdmi out. So I'm using component out from the cable box, routed through the 805, and then component out to my Samsung dlp. I experimented with component in/hdmi out, and didn't hear/see any advantage (I'm looking forward to purchasing a blue-ray player to take advantage of hdmi in/out!).

I can't duplicate your experience, so I wouldn't rule out a defective unit ... either the receiver or the Comcast box.


Thanks,

Yes the 805 is beauty - but actually the fact that the 805 "solved" your prior lip synch problem at 0 msec suggests that in fact there is a built in default audio delay. Typically you would need add about 40msec of delay to synch audio and video, but as this is delay is already being added to my HD audio signal (either from my local comcast source or by the Moto 6412) I need to 805 to not add any extra delay. I might try another comcast box to see if this helps - but the 805 is definitely adding an unwanted audio delay. I guess it just goes back and I wait for an alternative.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-21-2007, 12:26 PM
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I've done a little more research: I set my Onkyo 805 at 0ms delay when watching some programming on HDNET, which always gave me lip sync issues, especially the HD Movies (I suspect they were broadcasting out of sync). For HBO HD, I leave the setting at the default 40ms. Standard DVDs require an adjustment up to 20ms (may vary by disc ... need more testing). The receiver is now one-week old, so I need to do more testing with other programs. But I've yet to view a source that I'm not able to bring into perfect lip sync.
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post #7 of 30 Old 11-18-2007, 04:26 PM
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I'm very interested to find solution for this too - in other words I'd need to add delay of 20-60ms for video (or negative delay for audio =). I've also discussed about this in the "Onkyo 805 audio delay" -topic.

In any case the simplest way to achieve this should be following:

HDMI-sources HDMI-Out -> HDMI-In of AV-receiver suffering from too heavy audio processing, HDMI-Out of AV-receiver -> "device which adds delay atleast for video" -> HDMI-In of my projector

No video processing is required other than that delay. Does any of the cheap HDMI switches/splitters or something like that add any delay as side effect?
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post #8 of 30 Old 11-27-2007, 04:14 PM
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I've been browsing different video processors, but I still haven't found any device that would simply delay HDMI - to add like 40ms delay it wouldn't need that much memory even with full HD picture.
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-06-2008, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post

I've been browsing different video processors, but I still haven't found any device that would simply delay HDMI - to add like 40ms delay it wouldn't need that much memory even with full HD picture.

Anyone?
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post #10 of 30 Old 01-06-2008, 11:16 AM
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I thought there was some talk by Jim Peterson at Lumagen that they might add a video delay to the Radiance.
Radiance Thread Post 937
p.s. Radiance is the best VP on the market now IMO

Dan
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-06-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post

p.s. Radiance is the best VP on the market now IMO

to have that honor one would need SD/HD-SDI capability

-Gary
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-07-2008, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

to have that honor one would need SD/HD-SDI capability

-Gary


Point well taken
Lets say the Radiance does the best video processing at the moment
Best firmware
Most responsive support


SDI is coming I think

Dan
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post #13 of 30 Old 01-18-2008, 05:58 PM
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any news for adding video delay? or just a workaround to sync video&audio on onkyo?

it's not an hdmi issue, video delay it's there with composite and component sources too!
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-07-2009, 03:13 AM
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I'm too still intrested on device to add delay to hdmi signal, either video or both video and audio (I could insert this device between receiver and projector, after amp has already "collected" audio from hdmi).
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post #15 of 30 Old 01-07-2009, 02:54 PM
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Video delay is on the list for the Radiance. It isn't done yet but we expect that, if genlock is on, you should be able to add up to two frames of video delay. This feature will be added in a future software update.

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post #16 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 11:47 AM
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I have been looking for an HDMI "video delay" feature as well. I can't find any devices designed to ****** the video or advance the audio. This is frustrating as all devices that I have seen only provide functions for delaying the audio and not the video.

I need video delay.

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post #17 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 01:26 PM
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Quote:


I have seen only provide functions for delaying the audio and not the video.

on the DVDO processors you can put a negative delay on the audio up to the total video processing time. For example: if you have standard 3-frame processing with 50ms video delay you can basically set the audio delay to -50ms.
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post #18 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

I have been looking for an HDMI "video delay" feature as well. I can't find any devices designed to ****** the video or advance the audio. This is frustrating as all devices that I have seen only provide functions for delaying the audio and not the video.

I need video delay.

craigr

There are SDI and HDSDI delay cards made by Evertz and others as well. They cost around $4K for an HDSDI card plus a frame and power supply can run you another $1K.

This is broadcast gear and has a price to match but hey, they do make such things if you can justify the cost.

As for advancing the audio (or video for that matter) we have a slight physics problem with that in this known universe. The Lumagen doesn't really advance anything. It just applies less delay to the audio path.

http://www.evertz.com/products/7743DLY-HD
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post #19 of 30 Old 02-05-2010, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post


As for advancing the audio (or video for that matter) we have a slight physics problem with that in this known universe. The Lumagen doesn't really advance anything. It just applies less delay to the audio path.

http://www.evertz.com/products/7743DLY-HD

Lumagen have never claimed they advance anything....There has only been talk here of "lumagen delaying audio or video"

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post #20 of 30 Old 02-05-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Lumagen have never claimed they advance anything....There has only been talk here of "lumagen delaying audio or video"

I know, Im not holding Lumagen accountable for that claim. They know better. But many here use the term "advance" and it really isn't possible. I am just clarifing that any "advance" is really a delay against some other reference point.
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post #21 of 30 Old 11-05-2013, 06:02 PM
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This thread is a year old by now. Has there been any solution to this, provided by Lumagen or others?

I am processing my audio heavily using computer-based DSP for active crossover and room correction, which introduces significant audio delay (latency), so I need HDMI video delay.

I think this will become more and more common so there would be a demand for such a product....
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post #22 of 30 Old 11-06-2013, 04:07 AM
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How much delay are we talking about ? With some sophisticated post processing on the TV's or projector's side along with a video processor you might already seeing a 100-150ms delay in video - whichi is A LOT !
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post #23 of 30 Old 11-07-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiToNi View Post

This thread is a year old by now. Has there been any solution to this, provided by Lumagen or others?

I am processing my audio heavily using computer-based DSP for active crossover and room correction, which introduces significant audio delay (latency), so I need HDMI video delay.

I think this will become more and more common so there would be a demand for such a product....

As Fudoh said above, too much video delay is not generally a problem in HT systems. Most displays have a minimum of 1 frame and at 1080i that's 33ms. Add a video processor that's another frame or more.

Also the human brain is rather insensitive to late audio versus picture. That' because the speed of sound is so slow in nature. An animal (which we are) will see something move in the distance before it will hear it so the brain compensates. That is ingrained in our DNA. Since the dawn of movie sound, an editor will always error on the side of late audio if they can't make exact sync. Audio before picture is very annoying because it's not natural.

Fortunately late video is uncommon in out HT systems.
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post #24 of 30 Old 11-11-2013, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

How much delay are we talking about ? With some sophisticated post processing on the TV's or projector's side along with a video processor you might already seeing a 100-150ms delay in video - whichi is A LOT !

Good question. I'll find out and revert....
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-22-2019, 10:40 AM
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Has there been any progress on this subject of getting a device to delay HDMI video, I'd be interested in it as I'm in the same boat as Nitoni(post #21 ) by heavy processing of the audio.

Walter
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-22-2019, 02:16 PM
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The Lumagen Radiance Pro will delay up to 116ms. See the Video Delay section in the manual.
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post #27 of 30 Old 09-16-2019, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WTS View Post
Has there been any progress on this subject of getting a device to delay HDMI video, I'd be interested in it as I'm in the same boat as Nitoni(post #21 ) by heavy processing of the audio.
Extron DSC hdmi scalers I believe introduce about 16ms of latency, how much latency do you need?
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-17-2019, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the info guys. I'm not exactly sure just yet as to how much delay I'll need.

Walter
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post #29 of 30 Old 11-20-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by WTS View Post
Thanks for the info guys. I'm not exactly sure just yet as to how much delay I'll need.

So...issue resolved?



We have the same problem, lagging audio.



Yamaha CX-A5200
Panasonic DMP-UB900
Epson 5050UB


I need to slow the video down by about 1/8 second. Or advance the audio by that amount.
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post #30 of 30 Old 11-20-2019, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
So...issue resolved?



We have the same problem, lagging audio.



Yamaha CX-A5200
Panasonic DMP-UB900
Epson 5050UB


I need to slow the video down by about 1/8 second. Or advance the audio by that amount.
Not yet as the final audio digital hardware/software isn't complete yet, but hoping to get minimal delay in the audio first then deal with what we have to deal with.

Walter
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