New DVDO iScan VP50PRO - Page 112 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3331 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 05:15 AM
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The falling into "strobe mode" on hard cadence breaks should have been solved by the last FW upgrade. I haven't updated yet, but it was on the "fixed" list.

On the other hand: the 60->24p conversion on my TV set is so much better, that I hardly use 24p from the VP50pro.
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post #3332 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 05:27 AM
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Just a curiosity:
to get best results from SD NTSC DVD in SDI, what should i use
1- Cadence break ON or OFF?
2- Deinterlace to "Auto" of "Forced 3:2"?

Also, i would like to give a try to 60->24p conversion from NTSC DVD on SDI, but the image is all scrambled if i try this. I think the trick is in the framerate input setting .. or not?
Thx,

Luigi
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post #3333 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 11:02 AM
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I have done i60 to 24p (or 48p) for years before I got my new TV. 1366x768p48 on a LG LCD to be exact.

1) What's cadence break ? Do you mean cadence detection ? If yes, that's only an option for a progressive source and you want to do a framerate conversion there.

2) On good Hollywood discs Auto will do the trick pretty good. Also if you watch subtitled material you need to choose Auto, since you otherwise get feathering on the subtitles.

I assume you're using a 1080p display ? The problem is that you most likely can't use 24Hz on a 1080p60 timing, so you need to change the output resolution to 1080p24 *AND* 60-24Hz in the framerate menu. Best thing is to use a different output profile which saves both settings.

Other than that 480i60 to 1080p24 has worked pretty good on the VP50 and does still on the 50pro. On an older firmware the 50pro tended to get a hickup with lots of studdering but switching output profiles corrected this.
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post #3334 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post

Just a curiosity:
to get best results from SD NTSC DVD in SDI, what should i use
1- Cadence break ON or OFF?
2- Deinterlace to "Auto" of "Forced 3:2"?

Also, i would like to give a try to 60->24p conversion from NTSC DVD on SDI, but the image is all scrambled if i try this. I think the trick is in the framerate input setting .. or not?
Thx,

Luigi

Luigi, for best SDI DVD playback of film titles use these settings:

deinterlacing= film bias
cadence= off
mnr= low
edge enhance= -15
detail= +4
use test pattern to set your y/c delay properly

SDI DVD in at 60hz should do fine with 24/48/72hz output, flip cadence on when doing so and see how it goes

-Gary
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post #3335 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

Luigi, for best SDI DVD playback of film titles use these settings:

deinterlacing= film bias


Gary, thanks for the reply. I was skeptical about film bias because with PAL material i have much better results (more crispness in the image) setting 2:2 even/odd, so i was assuming that for ntsc forced 3:2 was about the same thing.
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post #3336 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

I1) What's cadence break ? Do you mean cadence detection ? If yes, that's only an option for a progressive source and you want to do a framerate conversion there.

Yes, of course it was "cadence detection", sorry for the typo.
480i in - 108024p out is not a priority for me, since i don't see/suffer for any stutter with the "normal" 60hz. Anyway i'll give it a try following your suggestions to see if it works for me, too.
Thanks again.

Luigi
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post #3337 of 5953 Old 06-14-2008, 01:41 PM
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cough it up Joe, we want feedback

-Gary
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post #3338 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 07:26 AM
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So I placed the VP50 pro in the same exact spot where my C2 is at. No cable changes. The first night (Friday) I had it dialed in nicely, the picture looked fantastic. We watched Bucket List Blu ray and the details on Morgan's face were to scary. My Wife even commented on that! I was very happy with the results. The VP50 pro came with 1.0. I was planning to do a software upgrade this week. So that is Friday night. Saturday I had a few friends come over. They wanted to see my theater. We had a business meeting in the morning so I had 3 vehicles follow me home. I get them seated and I played a few minutes of National Treasure 2 Blu ray (which my Family viewed earlier in the week) and the picture looked pristine. Then all of a sudden I see 'sparklies' in the blacks and on peoples faces. I have not seen this in 3 years! When I switched to my HR21 pro DirecTV HD DVR they were much worse. The last time they showed up was when I was using a bettercables 35 foot HDMI cable. WHen I switched it out they were gone. I know it can't be a cable problem because in the same exact set up using the C2 I see just a perfectly clean picture. I will say Friday when I had no 'sparklies' I was able to tweak the pro into getting a super sharp picture without adding artifact. I was very impressed with it. I was planning on keeping it but as of now I have already placed the C2 back (and yes the 'sparklies' are gone) and began resetting it up. I have learned a few things from the 50 pro that I plan to use with my C2. I will also say in terms of pic Q these two Vps are more close than apart. With SD material the 50 pro may be the best on the market! Of course I hardly watch SD material anymore so that would not benefit me. Now with HD the C2 may be slightly better but they are very close. I can tweak them so the pic Q is very close and most could not tell the difference. I do like the fact that the 50 pro is HDMI 1.3 but if I cannot get rid of the 'sparklies' then that is a moot point. Any ideas? I plan to spend today going back and forth. Before there are any ideas I will say that on Friday the picture was as good as it gets! I did not touch anything. Just went back Saturday later in the morning and then they were there. I also have and tried a gefen HDMI superbooster 141 to see if that would get rid of them. It did not. Either with or without it they were still there. When I take the 50 pro out of the chain entirely they are gone. WHen I use the C2 they are gone. I am using very good HDMI cables which are all HDMI 1.3 certified. If someone can help me crack this I would keep the 50 pro. If not I will be content with my C2...

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post #3339 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 07:30 AM
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Joe

Maybe too obvious but upgrade the firmware before any final decision.

Don
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post #3340 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 07:36 AM
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I've thought about that but I have read a few posts in the VP50 area where 'sparklies' were present on all software updates... Is it possible this is a bad unit? I thought about that but then why were they not there Friday? I have to admit this is a tough one. I will do an update to see but I just did tracking on my USBGEAR adaptor and it will be here tomorrow... I still plan to go back and forth today to see if I can figure it out. I will check all resolutions but of course I always send either 1080p/60 or 24 to my VW200...

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post #3341 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 08:12 AM
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Joe !
I too have the VP50Pro at home and as you know a VPS3800.
I use the VP50Pro in my secondary setup in my livingroom. It feeds a 40" 1080p Sony LCD TV and I use the Prep to clean the 576p video from my DSL TV box. I also use a BD10 BD player and a XE1 (aka XA2).
My primary setup as to be the best I can get as it is a big screen with a HD1 (RS1) projector.

Even though I love the VP50Pro for many reasons it will never end to replace my CII.

I might change my current DVD player (Oppo 971 with SDI) for a 983 and benefit all of the DVDO ABT102 and 1018 goodness, but the VP50Pro is simply too limited in features and is not user friendly enough.

I would expect DVDO to at last change the OSD which is out dated, change the auto setup form something more simple and less buggy, add naming for profiles, inputs ... add CMS, add real gamma managment ... stuff we have from PMS or Lumagen.
I know they are very capable and that could happen !
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post #3342 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 08:20 AM
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I do agree with you. I really like the C2's Dynamic VP which once set up takes all the thinking out of everything! Plus the GUI is second to none. Still though the VP50 pro puts out a damn good image and I think most would be very happy with it. Especially if they never seen a C2 and how it works. If I had a good secondary set up I would definitely keep it. But our livingroom panny plasma is more my Wife's domain and it has to be as simple as it gets! Like I posted though, so far the 50 pro has helped me tweak my image more to what I like and I am using that to my benefit.

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post #3343 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 08:43 AM
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I am heading down to "work" now and see if I can get to the bottom of this. I will first try a factory reset on the 50 pro. I know the 50 pro made the sharpest image I have seen in my theater to date! I was very impressed with its clean image before. It was very pleasing...

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post #3344 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 08:50 AM
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Sparkies was the main reason I returned my VP50pro last year & kept the VP50. Maybe something to do with HDMI 1.3 & compatibility with some pj's.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am heading down to "work" now and see if I can get to the bottom of this. I will first try a factory reset on the 50 pro. I know the 50 pro made the sharpest image I have seen in my theater to date! I was very impressed with its clean image before. It was very pleasing...

True that the VP50Pro can generate an amazingly sharp and clean picture on both SD and HD materials !
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post #3346 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 09:02 AM
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WTF is a C2?
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post #3347 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 09:27 AM
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Joe: have you done an hardware reset (not factory default, just hardware reset)? If not do it, then upgrade to the latest firmware and then do another hardware reset before putting the 50pro back.
If this does not get rid of the sparklies maybe the unit is defective.

What about black level? In my setup (i have a C2 - Crystalio2- too, as you know) the 50 has a stronger and deeper black level by default.
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post #3348 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 10:11 AM
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I get sparkies every once in a while with my VP50pro. It generally happens when it is connected to my Directv HR-20 (HDMI). The only way that I have been able to fix it is to to turn the TV and VP50pro off and then back on...

FYI, I do have the latest version of the firmware installed.
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post #3349 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 11:12 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I am trying them now. A C2 is a crystalio II. I still like the vast amount of gamma control they have. As many here know I am an eye candy extremist and setting the C2's gamma on high gives the picture on my VW 200 great pop while keeping the black levels deep and inky. Still though I really like what the 50pro does in terms of balance and sharpness. I will try before I just give up and I may try another one. That way at least I will know I tried all avenues. I really want the 50pro to work so I can use the new pioneer's deep color trick next month when it comes out. If I will get sparklies sometimes I won't settle for it. Not when the C2 does the job and then some. Nothing is worse when having company over and seeing those white dots!

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post #3350 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 01:02 PM
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Alright. I have both VPs connected to my PJ and switching back and forth they are nearly even. The VP50 pro is sharper and I did an A/B using my WIfe and she even picked up on it. And the funny thing is I am not getting 'sparklies' at the moment. I haven't been getting them since I set it up (again) earlier today. This is really bizarre...

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post #3351 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 01:12 PM
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IME, the sparklies are generally cable related. I've had cables I thought were good, as they worked "fine" with certain devices, but exhibited the sparklies with certain combinations of equipment. HDMI is a funny beast. Ironically, I've had better luck (near perfect) with generic cables over high $$ cables.

The next time I have to replace the PJ cable, it will be with fiber.
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post #3352 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 01:35 PM
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Joe, glad to hear you like the Pro, I too feel that if DVDO would add the calibration features of the Crystalio and Lumagen units they would have the best scaler on the market bar none

so said you were getting sparklies in the dark areas sometimes?, sad to say but that is a symptom of a bad unit, do the firmware update and do a hardware reset and see how it goes, also make sure the unit is very well ventilated, in a rack type setup I would even put a fan drawing out on top over the main chip area

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post #3353 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 02:35 PM
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Thanks Gary. I am giving it top shelf priority with about 6 inches of open space. And of course behind it is completely open.

As I reported I have not seen a sparklie in over 3 years with various different components (those that know me know I like reviewing) which include about 10 different Blu ray players, all the onkyo receivers and now their 885 pre amp as well as almost all of the HD DVD players... So as reported it is not my cables... Other proof is the fact that when I take the 50 pro out of the chain they are gone. If it were cable related they would still be there... Plus I have gefen superbooster 141s that are very good...

Now after spending all day comparing I have made a decision on which unit is staying in my rack. When I woke up this morning I could have bet my life that it would have been the C2. After working back and forth with each one I was able to get the 50 pro set up the way I like it. And after having my WIfe help (it's Father's Day- I adopted her daughter 6 months ago) as a present, she picked the 50 pro each time. I admit I like the sharper image a lot more. It is razor sharp. You can see every blemish or pore on people's faces! I also noticed the deeper black levels to. One other last thing which took the cake. I was watching some of the Cubs and SOX games and I noticed there was a little noise around the scores information box (both games)... When I turned on the Mosquito to LOW it was gone! Now that is really cool. I could not get rid of it easily with the C2. And when I did (using NR) it introduced other artifact in the picture. So kudos to DVDO. I am now an official 50 pro owner.

On another note (this goes to [email protected]) I am using 1.0 until tomorrow and I cannot get 1080p/23.98 into the 50 pro. If I were BETA testing for you I would have easily caught that for you guys. You can call on me anytime you like in the future. Speaking of software which one should I load? 1.2 or 1.4?

And Gary I will definitely get a replacement if the 'sparklies' show up again... It could just be a bad unit. I have had my share of them and totally understand it happens...

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post #3354 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

WTF is a C2?

I think it is a Crystallio II.

Best Regards
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post #3355 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Thanks Gary. I am giving it top shelf priority with about 6 inches of open space. And of course behind it is completely open.

As I reported I have not seen a sparklie in over 3 years with various different components (those that know me know I like reviewing) which include about 10 different Blu ray players, all the onkyo receivers and now their 885 pre amp as well as almost all of the HD DVD players... So as reported it is not my cables... Other proof is the fact that when I take the 50 pro out of the chain they are gone. If it were cable related they would still be there... Plus I have gefen superbooster 141s that are very good...

Now after spending all day comparing I have made a decision on which unit is staying in my rack. When I woke up this morning I could have bet my life that it would have been the C2. After working back and forth with each one I was able to get the 50 pro set up the way I like it. And after having my WIfe help (it's Father's Day- I adopted her daughter 6 months ago) as a present, she picked the 50 pro each time. I admit I like the sharper image a lot more. It is razor sharp. You can see every blemish or pore on people's faces! I also noticed the deeper black levels to. One other last thing which took the cake. I was watching some of the Cubs and SOX games and I noticed there was a little noise around the scores information box (both games)... When I turned on the Mosquito to LOW it was gone! Now that is really cool. I could not get rid of it easily with the C2. And when I did (using NR) it introduced other artifact in the picture. So kudos to DVDO. I am now an official 50 pro owner.

On another note (this goes to [email protected]) I am using 1.0 until tomorrow and I cannot get 1080p/23.98 into the 50 pro. If I were BETA testing for you I would have easily caught that for you guys. You can call on me anytime you like in the future. Speaking of software which one should I load? 1.2 or 1.4?

And Gary I will definitely get a replacement if the 'sparklies' show up again... It could just be a bad unit. I have had my share of them and totally understand it happens...

Joe that was caught in beta and corrected long ago, the 24p input I am speaking of, load that latest beta firmware now!

the MNR is amazing for satellite sources as the poor or over compression leads to tons of MN artifacts, check it out on Cartoon Network with the solid black lines around characters, flip it on and off, huge improvement, I use Med MNR for all HD/SD Dish viewing, also try edge into the negative for help with pixelization, about -15, afterwards put detail on about +4 or 5

-Gary
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post #3356 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 07:09 PM
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Gary my unit came with 1.0 so then shouldn't they have fixed 1080p/24 before the unit was released? What I mean (and I am not being critical) is if the beta people caught it and reported it they should have fixed it before the units were out... That is all. I will update tomorrow and it will be a moot point... I would like to help the next time (2009) they release a new unit. Oh and which should I use, the beta 1.4 or regular 1.2...

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post #3357 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 09:13 PM
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Another obvious difference was when I would hit Guide or List. The letters are much more sharper and clean then the other VP... I am very impressed with how Sharp the 50 pro is.

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post #3358 of 5953 Old 06-15-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Gary my unit came with 1.0 so then shouldn't they have fixed 1080p/24 before the unit was released? What I mean (and I am not being critical) is if the beta people caught it and reported it they should have fixed it before the units were out... That is all. I will update tomorrow and it will be a moot point... I would like to help the next time (2009) they release a new unit. Oh and which should I use, the beta 1.4 or regular 1.2...

beta 1.4

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post #3359 of 5953 Old 06-16-2008, 04:53 AM
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Thanks Gary. Will do.

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post #3360 of 5953 Old 06-16-2008, 06:45 AM
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I lIke the 50 pro a lot, but i'm still concerned about that "stairway" artefact in scaling over sd. Most of the time is not present, but sometime is really bad and even if the image is sharp, clean and with great black levels i can't help to see it.
Really hope that dvdo will fix/improve this aspect with new firmware, otherwise pq is perfect.
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