crystalio II VPS3100 user report - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 60 Old 10-18-2007, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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As many of you know I have been a big fan of the crystalio II series. So naturally I wanted to get my hands on the new 3100 model. As you can see in the pic it looks exactly like the 3300 and 3800. Like the other units it uses gennum's VXP (Visual Excellence Processing) chip which deinterlaces 1080i into 1080p second to none. It also has Pixel Magic's Reality Expansion, Fine Edge, TruMotionHD, Fidelity Engine, Intelligent Scaling Algorithms, Aspect ratio Conversion and High Resolution Support. I will get into userface, resolutions, inputs and outputs a little later.

One of the best surprises in the 3100 is its newer updated EDID. For those that do not know what EDID is it is EXTENDED DISPLAY IDENTIFICATION DATA. EDID contains basic information about a monitor and its capabilities, including vendor info, maximum image size, color characteristics, factory timings, frequency range limits and character strings. Some of you are aware that HD DVD players cannot send in 1080p/24 (23.98) to the current 3300 and 3800 models. PMS will upgrade your units EDID (buyers pay shipping both ways) so it will accept it. Blu ray players on the other hand have had no problems sending in 1080p/23 (23.98) into the crystalio IIs. Some units (xbox 360 ELITE, Panny BD10A) can only send in 1080i. So as you can see the major issue with EDID is communication. I think it is terrific PMS will upgrade your units EDID. I do not know of any other companies that have offered to do that. The 3100 accepted every resolution I offered it from the A35 (HD DVD player) and the 95FD (Blu ray player). And yes 1080p/23.98 was accepted from both!

Using the 3100 with HD DVD (A35) and a Blu ray player (Pioneer 95FD) sending in 1080p/23.98 in and then back out worked flawlessly. The picture is smooth and judder free. No flicker or cadence drops. It is as good as it gets! I am using the new Sony VPL VW60 "Black Pearl" with my set up. Many ask me why I want to send in that resolution to my VP. My answer is I want to send in the next gens native source then use the crystalio II to adjust picture parameters. Doing this allows me to tweak it so I can achieve the most optimal viewing. I do send in 1080i or 480i for SD dvd, DTHEATER and DirecTV. That is when i use the gennum VXp chip. My DTHEATER and DirecTV HD has never looked better. SD dvds look near HD!

The 3100 does all of the same resolutions as its olde brothers. It has the same userface which has always been one of my favorite features. The 3100's does appear to be a little larger with clearer letters and numbers. I have always liked the info button which tells you everything about what is going in and what is going out. Being able to label inputs and outputs always makes thing easie. Speaking of inputs there are 4 HDMI, 2 component, 2 S-Video, 2 analog, 3 Digital 91 opt. 3 coax), RS 232, ethernet and of course a USB which can be used to do firmware updates via a USB flashcard. I wish other companies would allow this feature because it is very conveinant. As for outputs there are 2 HDMI which can also be used simultaneously.

The userface has these options: INPUT, IMAGE, OUTPUT, AUDIO, and SYSTEM. Input allows you to set profiles, hide unused input sources and configuration which also allows you to customize the name of each input. The IMAGE section allows video settings (picture adjustments), color temperature, gamma correction, aspect ratio, overscan, position, crop, deinterlace, noise reducer, smooth scaling and video profile adjustments. OUTPUT has more configuration which allows naming each one and also has assigned resolutions. Each one can be assigned to do a different resolution so it makes switching between them seemless. There is also screen shape selections and screen masking which allows you to pick any color you want your masking to be. Sometimes it is fun having the bars red or blue for a kids movie! Then of course there is gamma corrections and output profiles. It is also important to note that the 3100 also has DynamicVP which allows certain "rules" for each input and how it is output. The AUDIO section for selecting input audio options. The SYSTEM has cool test patterns and also firmware info. Also this is where you will find the PASSTHRU feature which is just like it sounds. What comes in goes out (untouched)... Then there are OSD (on screen display) options.

In summary the 3100 has a msrp of 2899. It is a set up's bestfriend which mainly uses HDMI (like mine). The crystalio II 3100 works more smoother then its older siblings. The remote is the same backlit one but the response time seems a little faster. And so far the picture has been perfect coming from it. I really feel like I am seeing the pinnacle of what FULL HD has to offer. With being able to adjust 1080p/23.98's sharpness, color, contrast and brightness as well as black level can it get any better than this? Congrats to PMS for their hard efforts which yields great results. Success breeds followers!

To read more about the crystalio II 3100's features and details please go to www.crystalio.com/spec.html
LL

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post #2 of 60 Old 10-19-2007, 03:02 AM
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Nice one Joe - glad you're happy.
I didn't realise the 3100 might have some improvements, but it sounds like a few useful tweaks have been made.
I've got used to playing my DVDs from the internal media player of the 3800 and I'm looking forward to trying HD-SDI, so I think I'll stick with it.

I was just in the process of recommending one to a friend though, so I will probably advise that he gets the 3100 now. The cost saving will provide enough money to get a great control system.
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post #3 of 60 Old 10-19-2007, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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That is an excellent point. At the 3100's price range it is right in there with the competition. And since you get pretty much most of the features (especially picture Q) of the 3300 and 3800 it is definitely worth it. I am waiting for more info from PMS about the possibility of the 3100 being able to even do Pip (picture in picture) and PbP (picture by picture)... That would make it even better!

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post #4 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 01:33 AM
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About the EDID thing, I've had this for over a year (probably longer) on my Lumagen HDP Pro (they have this supported across the line).

It's a great feature and I'm glad Pixel Magic has added it to their feature list. I use this feature all the time, as I often test equpiment that screws up the Auto EDID feature and not all of them offer selecteable resolutions. IMO, this is a must have feature these days on high end processors.

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post #5 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 01:44 AM
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Hi Ofer - I'm not sure this is an editable EDID.
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post #6 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 06:10 AM
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tryingtimes, what does "editable" EDID mean?

There's a list of possible EDID modes and I can select the ones I want the unit to allow and those that I don't...

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
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post #7 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 07:41 AM
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When I said editable, I meant configurable (as your description above). No one has described the VSP3100 EDID as like this. But I'm happy to be proved wrong. As I understood it, it was just a more useful selection of EDID data (bit still fixed).

Joe? Is there anywhere to set EDID info on VPS3100?
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post #8 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I will look harder for it later but I have not run accross any EDID settings. If they are there then they must be in a hidden menu. I wouldn't touch them anyway because everything is running in and out very smoothly...

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post #9 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 08:34 AM
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Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

Vinod
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post #10 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

Joe,

More importantly, does it pass multichannel LPCM over HDMI now? I know it passed 2 channel but PMS alway indicated that is was a hardware limitation that rendered them unable to send up to 8 channels of LPCM. Now would have been the perfect time to fix this with the introduction of this new model. I just recently bought the 3300 and would love to know if PMS will offer a trade in program, should this new feature be available.

Ryan

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post #11 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 09:24 AM
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jeroed, if everything works well - then that's fine, but I did run into several devices that had timing incompatibility with my display and/or the processor and needed a well justified EDID tug in the right direction

Cheers,
Ofer LaOr
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post #12 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I will test the multichannel capability in a little bit but since it is not HDMI 1.3 I do not expect it to work. I send my Blu ray and HD DVD players to my Onkyo 905 first then send them out to my 3100. Since the 905 has 2 HDMI outs I use one for 1080p/23.98 and the other for my DirecTV and 360 ELITE sources. That way I calibrate two separate INPUTS on the 3100. And since the 3100 has two HDMI outs I use one for Blu ray and HD DVD (1080p/23.98) and the other for DirecTV and Xbox. And finally since my new WV60 has two HDMI inputs I use one for the 1080p/23.98 and one for 1080p/60. It may seem a little complicated but it is easy and seemless switching between them...

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post #13 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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oferlaor, I know exactly what you mean. I still had issues with sending in 1080p/60 with my HD DVD players. Sometimes it would be fine for awhile then all of a sudden I would get a cadence drop. That was when I would send in 1080p/60 and then out 1080p/23.98. Now the Pioneer 95FD and previous models were fine sending in 1080p/23.98 and then back out 23.98. It was the HD DVD sources and DTHEATER ones that would cause hiccups. Now, with the new and improved EDID on the 3100 I have had absolutely no issues. Not one cadence drop or any signs of judder or strobe effect. The 3100 I received has firmware version 1.03. Even if they release another one I will be tempted to not change to it.

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post #14 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 10:15 AM
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I can only think of one instance where EDID settings are useful, and that is where an HD source sends out SD material and wont allow it to be in 480i/576i. On the UK Sky HD box this is the case.
The lumagen's allow the EDID table to be edited to force 480i/576i signals from the box when the program is SD.
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post #15 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

From what I can tell the 3100 does not do what the flea does. Am I correct?

Thanks,
Bob
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post #16 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I will test the multichannel capability in a little bit but since it is not HDMI 1.3 I do not expect it to work. I send my Blu ray and HD DVD players to my Onkyo 905 first then send them out to my 3100. Since the 905 has 2 HDMI outs I use one for 1080p/23.98 and the other for my DirecTV and 360 ELITE sources. That way I calibrate two separate INPUTS on the 3100. And since the 3100 has two HDMI outs I use one for Blu ray and HD DVD (1080p/23.98) and the other for DirecTV and Xbox. And finally since my new WV60 has two HDMI inputs I use one for the 1080p/23.98 and one for 1080p/60. It may seem a little complicated but it is easy and seemless switching between them...

Joe,

I could see it not passing DTS-MA/TrueHD bitstream, but I'm more worried about the player side decoded TrueHD that's being sent via LPCM. I thought 8 channel LPCM has been in the HDMI spec since the get go.

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post #17 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

oferlaor, I know exactly what you mean. I still had issues with sending in 1080p/60 with my HD DVD players. Sometimes it would be fine for awhile then all of a sudden I would get a cadence drop. That was when I would send in 1080p/60 and then out 1080p/23.98. Now the Pioneer 95FD and previous models were fine sending in 1080p/23.98 and then back out 23.98. It was the HD DVD sources and DTHEATER ones that would cause hiccups. Now, with the new and improved EDID on the 3100 I have had absolutely no issues. Not one cadence drop or any signs of judder or strobe effect. The 3100 I received has firmware version 1.03. Even if they release another one I will be tempted to not change to it.

Waow ! So you mean that the cadence break problemes have been solved ? Well if the 3800 gets the same improvements afer EDID upgrade i'll be the happiest man on earth !

About fw ... try the new one, if it is not quite perfect you can still flash back to 1.03 !

I am also wondering if the CII can now take in up to 7.1 LPCM instead of 2.0. The HDMI profile 1.1 allows that, but the probleme is more linked with the chip that as been integrated (as a matter of fact not all HDMI1.1 chips can take in 7.1 LPCM, some are limited to 2.0 ... check on Silicon Image web ... it is a real headache !).
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post #18 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got in so I will mess with testing audio LPCM tonite. I will upgrade whrn they offer because you are right. I can always go back.

Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to. To me that is worth the price of shipping it in and out alone!

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post #19 of 60 Old 10-20-2007, 10:02 PM
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Hi Joe!
That would be great if you can test the LPCM issue before the weekend as I am planning to wait till Monday to put the order in.
Thanks,

Vinod
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post #20 of 60 Old 10-21-2007, 01:30 AM
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Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to.

My HO MY !

Good that I have FedEx 5 minutes ride form home !
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post #21 of 60 Old 10-21-2007, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I will test this morning. My wife wanted to watch scary movies lastnite so Icould not do any testing. I am heading downstairs now...

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post #22 of 60 Old 10-21-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to. To me that is worth the price of shipping it in and out alone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

My HO MY !

Good that I have FedEx 5 minutes ride form home !

I find it hard to imagine that just changing the EDID will have an effect on this. I'd check with PMS before getting your hopes up. Maybe they service more parts as well, but again, I'd check.
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post #23 of 60 Old 10-21-2007, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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They must have modified other areas to becuuse I am telling you I have not had a single glitch occur...

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post #24 of 60 Old 10-23-2007, 06:35 AM
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Which Gennum processor does it use? Is it the latest version?
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post #25 of 60 Old 10-23-2007, 07:36 AM
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Hi Joe!
Any update on LPCM through HDMI?
Thanks,

Vinod
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post #26 of 60 Old 10-27-2007, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, looks like it still passes the same sound as the 3300 and 3800. It does not matter to me since I send in my Blu ray and HD DVD into my Onkyo 905 first then send them into the inputs on the 3100. Since the 905 has two HDMI outs I can switch between them and my DirecTv and that allows each souce to be calibrated going into the 3100.

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post #27 of 60 Old 10-31-2007, 11:10 AM
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Hi Joe,
I currently have a Ruby. Would the 3100 provided enough picture quality improvement to justify the investment? My sources are HD DVD, Blu Ray and Directv HD TiVo. Also, do you think that it would be worth it to upgrade from the Ruby to the VPL-VW60?
Thanks
Al
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post #28 of 60 Old 10-31-2007, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I really like the WV60 and the 3100 combo. They work quite well together. PM sent.

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post #29 of 60 Old 10-31-2007, 02:41 PM
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Gentlemen - the LPCM issue has not been addressed - but simply routing via your AVR fixes the issue. You lose lipsynch but I haven't needed to use lipsynch.

Also, the Gefen's DVI genie fixes most EDID issues. Its only $70.
The EDID issue is fixed on the 3100 though.

Zeropoint - Gennum's current VXP is being used.

Also, I've used the C2 with a Ruby and it really gives the Ruby an edge.

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post #30 of 60 Old 10-31-2007, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, the Ruby/crystalio II combo is awesome to! I am glad the EDID issues are resolved. That makes the crystalio IIs winners! I should also mention I really like using the import/export feature. I just export all the settings on one crystalio II then if I want I can send them into (import) them into another crystalio II via the usb flashcard. Now that is to conveinant.

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