What is the current "gold standard" in headphone fidelity? - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 201 Old 01-25-2016, 12:33 PM
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As a headphone dealer, let me say with confidence that what sounds "best" to one is often very different than what sounds best to another. All the earlier posts focusing on measurements miss the point, in my opinion. The OP's search for the best $100-300 headphones should be more about listening to as many makes and models as possible and choosing a favorite (rather than parsing frequency curves). Oftentimes, an optimal curve on paper does not translate to a listener's favorite sound in practice.

Even at the flagship level, tastes and opinions vary. I've listened to the $5000 Abyss headphones a handful of times and never came away thinking they sounded so amazing. The lauded Audeze LCD line, to me, sounds great but is too heavy to wear for more than 20 minutes.

So decide how much you are willing and able to spend, go listen to everything you can, and choose your favorite. If you happen to be near NYC, look me up (www.InnerSanctumAudio.com) for a private audition of anything we carry.
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post #152 of 201 Old 01-25-2016, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djlackey5 View Post
As a headphone dealer, let me say with confidence that what sounds "best" to one is often very different than what sounds best to another. All the earlier posts focusing on measurements miss the point, in my opinion. The OP's search for the best $100-300 headphones should be more about listening to as many makes and models as possible and choosing a favorite (rather than parsing frequency curves). Oftentimes, an optimal curve on paper does not translate to a listener's favorite sound in practice.

Even at the flagship level, tastes and opinions vary. I've listened to the $5000 Abyss headphones a handful of times and never came away thinking they sounded so amazing. The lauded Audeze LCD line, to me, sounds great but is too heavy to wear for more than 20 minutes.

So decide how much you are willing and able to spend, go listen to everything you can, and choose your favorite. If you happen to be near NYC, look me up (www.InnerSanctumAudio.com) for a private audition of anything we carry.
Appreciate the offer, djlackey5, and your insights re the best sound as well. You mention a couple headphones above that you don't particularly like for various reasons. Is there a certain headphone (or headphones) that you like for your own listening though?

What you describe above is pretty much what I did btw. I think I probably listened to and/or tried on at least a dozen headphones before more-or-less settling on the AKG K553 Pro... And I'm still not 100% happy with my final choice. (Some people just can't be pleased. ) With a few tweaks here and there though, I think the AKG will probably get the job done.

The graphs have also been useful though in narrowing down some of the options. And they'll be very useful for tweaking the sound on the K553 so its more neutral and balanced to my ears.

The weakest link in my audio chain right now is probably the Nano Patch+ attenuator. The cheap Chinese(?) potentiometer in the unit doesn't maintain good L/R balance at all volume levels. I can compensate with the L/R Gains on my EQ, but it's a bit of a nuisance. I should probably upgrade to a nice solid state amp, but don't have the bread for that at moment, and still need to work a few more kinks out of the headphones first.

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post #153 of 201 Old 01-26-2016, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
Appreciate the offer, djlackey5, and your insights re the best sound as well. You mention a couple headphones above that you don't particularly like for various reasons. Is there a certain headphone (or headphones) that you like for your own listening though?

The weakest link in my audio chain right now is probably the Nano Patch+ attenuator. The cheap Chinese(?) potentiometer in the unit doesn't maintain good L/R balance at all volume levels. I can compensate with the L/R Gains on my EQ, but it's a bit of a nuisance. I should probably upgrade to a nice solid state amp, but don't have the bread for that at moment, and still need to work a few more kinks out of the headphones first.
ADU,

When I am home listening for pleasure, my favorite headphones are MrSpeakers' Ether ( http://www.innersanctumaudio.com/col...speakers-ether ). They have such transparency and finesse, with great comfort.

If I am walking around on a cold winter day, the RBH Sound HP-2 ( http://www.innersanctumaudio.com/col...p-2-headphones ) offers full, rich sound and comfy full earcups with closed-back design for isolation.

Lots of other great models for different reasons, too, but I don't want to sound like I'm selling here.
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post #154 of 201 Old 02-02-2016, 11:55 AM
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The amp can make or fail a headphone for me, especially at the top tier. HD800 was famous for the difficulty of amp match. Fortunately, my Audio-GD Phoneix and Ref-7 DAC is a perfect match for me. My other system, Hifiman HE-6, is even more picky on the amp. My Aleph 3 drives it well.

So it is like speaker system, one may need to find a target headphone and build the system around it to get the best sound.
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post #155 of 201 Old 02-02-2016, 11:55 AM
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The amp can make or fail a headphone for me, especially at the top tier. HD800 was famous for the difficulty of amp match. Fortunately, my Audio-GD Phoneix and Ref-7 DAC is a perfect match for me. My other system, Hifiman HE-6, is even more picky on the amp. My Aleph 3 drives it well.

So it is like speaker system, one may need to find a target headphone and build the system around it to get the best sound.
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post #156 of 201 Old 02-02-2016, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djlackey5 View Post
ADU,

When I am home listening for pleasure, my favorite headphones are MrSpeakers' Ether ( http://www.innersanctumaudio.com/col...speakers-ether ). They have such transparency and finesse, with great comfort.

If I am walking around on a cold winter day, the RBH Sound HP-2 ( http://www.innersanctumaudio.com/col...p-2-headphones ) offers full, rich sound and comfy full earcups with closed-back design for isolation.

Lots of other great models for different reasons, too, but I don't want to sound like I'm selling here.
Many thanks for the suggestions, djlackey5. Don't know too much about the RBH Sound HP-2, but I've heard some pretty good things about Mr. Speaker's Ether. Fwiw, here is IF's review...


Full Review: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...tic-headphones
Graphs: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersEther.pdf

In the video, Tyll mentions that the peak at around 10 kHz sounded a little bright to his ears. I haven't heard the headphones myself, but I think that could be standing out to him because there's a fairly pronounced dip before 10 kHz, and not much roll off above 10 kHz compared to some other headphones he likes, such as the NAD HP50 and Oppo PM3. The Ether looks like it has a bit more air than those kinds of headphones.

I should also mention again that I don't think the Harman curve in its current form is necessarily an ideal target for a neutral sound with IF's raw frequency response graphs, because it lacks certain details in the treble, namely the three "ear resonances" and corresponding "dips" in between show on these averaged headphone plots...





The average curve shown above (based on Golden Ears headphone data) is probably a bit bright in the treble as well. Imo though, a "neutral response" (whatever that may be), should have a similar series of peaks and valleys in the treble, to better reflect the physical and acoustical characteristics of the head and torso simulator being used for the measurements.

The human ear (and body) acts like a complex frequency filter, enhancing some frequencies more than others, esp. in the treble. (I learned that from Inner Fidelity btw.) And I think that should probably be reflected in a neutral response curve.

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Last edited by ADU; 02-02-2016 at 07:17 PM.
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post #157 of 201 Old 02-02-2016, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukja View Post
The amp can make or fail a headphone for me, especially at the top tier. HD800 was famous for the difficulty of amp match. Fortunately, my Audio-GD Phoneix and Ref-7 DAC is a perfect match for me. My other system, Hifiman HE-6, is even more picky on the amp. My Aleph 3 drives it well.

So it is like speaker system, one may need to find a target headphone and build the system around it to get the best sound.
I don't have much experience with amps. But your comments make a lot of sense to me.

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post #158 of 201 Old 02-02-2016, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Raw frequency response of the AudioTechnica ATH-R70x open headphones...



The bass is noticeably rolled-off below 50 Hz due to the open design, but these look fairly decent in the treble and mid-range. Inner Fidelity needs to do a more thorough review of these, and the AKG K553 Pro imo.

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post #159 of 201 Old 02-29-2016, 09:53 AM
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I always like to use nice gaming gear.I have had a lot of Headphones, but my new one are the SteelSeries H Wireless Gaming Headset with Dolby 7.1 Surround Sound. I m very satisfeid with this headset and no doubt they offer great gaming experience..I highly Recommend it !
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post #160 of 201 Old 03-03-2016, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I always like to use nice gaming gear.I have had a lot of Headphones, but my new one are the SteelSeries H Wireless Gaming Headset with Dolby 7.1 Surround Sound. I m very satisfeid with this headset and no doubt they offer great gaming experience..I highly Recommend it !
Thanks for this suggestion, Johan.

Still playin around with my AKG K553's, and have posted more details on them here...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...aks-discussion

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post #161 of 201 Old 03-16-2016, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Rtings (the popular LCD TV review site) is now covering headphones as well...

http://www.rtings.com/headphones

The only headphones they've reviewed so far are those with active noise cancelling. But others will come soon (they say). I've dropped them a note requesting that they post raw frequency plots, in addition to the compensated plots.

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post #162 of 201 Old 03-20-2016, 09:37 AM
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Look at what pro-audio guys, mixers, engineers use - a lot less hype (snake oil hype, not EQ curve hype) and they are not usually trying to impress anyone with bling and status symbols, they just need to hear accurately - you can get great sound for $500 +/-, Sennheiser is hard to beat. AKG is classic. Sony makes some very good affordable phones too.
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post #163 of 201 Old 03-27-2016, 03:36 AM
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Here's how my in-ear EQed to sound flat with sine sweep:


My ear canal has resonance at 5k, 8k, 11.2k and 16k (looks like comb filtering) and the resonance amplified with volume.
Each ears are individual and has to be equalized individually AND at a specific volume lets say 80db 1K peak at the ear drum.
The Harman curve is great progress in headphone research to the ultimate goal of truly flat sounding headphone but what
the Harman curve does not take into consideration is personal ear canal resonance and personal listening volume which affects the resonance amplitude.

I guess in the near future we will see the manufacturers getting closer and closer to the Harman curve and will have smaller difference between headphones, but still, personal EQ for the perfect flat reproduction is necessary.
Furthermore, the hardware for this individual EQ is not yet convenient even for advanced listeners, we either use VST plugins in a DAW with a computer, or a hardware EQ.
A small portable DSP box with presets for each headphone loaded into them after tweaking with EQ on a computer and loaded via USB into it would be great little tool.
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post #164 of 201 Old 03-27-2016, 07:57 AM
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I can see from ADU posts that a korean based company named Golden Ears has been using the Diffused Filed compensation curve of a head and torso simulator for year just like Inner Fidelity, but they also took into account the room curve (x-curve) and a small bass boost below 100Hz.
The Golden Ears curve is similar to the to Harman curve but the GE curve is some kind of average between diffused and free filed.

What Harman is not taking into account with its "perfect speakers in a perfect room" curve is that the human ear and brain is excellent in finding the direction of the speaker and compensating for that thus narrowing the gap between diffused and free filed difference.
Floyd Tool himself talked about this, that the human brain is well trained in picking the actual sound of the speaker among a lot of reflected sounds (comb filtering).
IMO, In a recording studio (where music is created and mixed) the speakers are always near-filed and close to your head with acoustically treated room, so the headphone compensation curve should be more like the Free Field with a slight bass boost, not the diffused field.
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post #165 of 201 Old 03-27-2016, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Here's how my in-ear EQed to sound flat with sine sweep:


My ear canal has resonance at 5k, 8k, 11.2k and 16k (looks like comb filtering) and the resonance amplified with volume.
Each ears are individual and has to be equalized individually AND at a specific volume lets say 80db 1K peak at the ear drum.
The Harman curve is great progress in headphone research to the ultimate goal of truly flat sounding headphone but what
the Harman curve does not take into consideration is personal ear canal resonance and personal listening volume which affects the resonance amplitude.

I guess in the near future we will see the manufacturers getting closer and closer to the Harman curve and will have smaller difference between headphones, but still, personal EQ for the perfect flat reproduction is necessary.
Furthermore, the hardware for this individual EQ is not yet convenient even for advanced listeners, we either use VST plugins in a DAW with a computer, or a hardware EQ.
A small portable DSP box with presets for each headphone loaded into them after tweaking with EQ on a computer and loaded via USB into it would be great little tool.
Can you tell me how exactly did you make that measurement? I have measurement mic for a room (ECM8000) and I actually made some headphone measurements, but never while they were on ear. I imagine it would be very annoying to take a sine sweep measurement at 80-90db level with headphones on ear.
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post #166 of 201 Old 03-27-2016, 10:16 PM
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I imagine it would be very annoying to take a sine sweep measurement at 80-90db level with headphones on ear.
You don't do it in what appears to be 90db, you play the sine wave in a comfortable music listening level to you.
In that comfortable listening level you sweep till you reach the first and loudest resonance then notch it according to the Q of this resonance, etc...
You run this sweep back and fort till the sweep is smooth and balanced without abrupt volume changes, finally you can balance the sound with high and low shelving.
Nobody can hear what you hear except a tiny capillary microphone at your ear drum which is a laboratory tool and not available to all, therefor the hard way is the only way.

It takes TIME, good knowledge of parametric EQ, well trained ears, and balanced quality speakers that you are familiar with in a familiar room for reference.
I can tell you that the resonance and balance between 3kHz and 8kHz are crucial to the sound of a headphone/earphone not so much the 8kHz to 20kHz range.
There is no other way to do it at home that I am aware of.

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post #167 of 201 Old 03-30-2016, 10:45 AM
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Guys I'm in the market for a new pair of IEM. I was using senheiser OMX 980 but the build quality is horrible. I listen mostly to house, deep house, hip hop and jazz. I know there's no IEM that fits them all kind of thing ,unfortunately for me there aren't many headphones here to try on. I'll just order from ebay or aliexpress of its a Chinese brand. My main usage is music on my s7 edge or my Vaio pro 13. I bought a Oppo HA2 DAC now I need 1 pair of headphones and my budget is $300

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post #168 of 201 Old 04-03-2016, 12:06 PM
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Nothing?dead thread ?

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post #169 of 201 Old 04-11-2016, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Nothing?dead thread ?

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Not (quite) dead. Just on temporary sick/tax leave.

Since I have little to no experience with IEMs, I'll defer to others' opinions here, and also refer you to the "the wall"...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...e-ear-monitors

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post #170 of 201 Old 04-11-2016, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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There are also some great ideas on full-sized (circumaural) open-back headphones in the Comments section of this recent IF blog, for anyone interested in that style...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...-and-questions

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I tried the Senn HD 558's when they were on sale at BB, and found them rather large and cumbersome, and not a very good fit on my head. And my attempts to extend their bass response via EQ just made them sound more "boomy". So they weren't really my cup of tea.

If you're into higher-end open back designs, these articles on the newly updated Sennheiser HD 800S and Audeze LCD-4 are also pretty good reads...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...h-diy-response
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...etic-headphone

Tyll is in touch with the folks at Audeze re the frequency response of the LCD-4. And it sounds like Audeze is making a few tweaks to the drivers on all of their planar magnetic headphones.

Some new graphs of the Audio Technica R70x...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/...icaATHR70x.pdf

More recent IF reviews of open back headphones here, including several by HiFiMan...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/categor...dphone-reviews

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post #171 of 201 Old 04-11-2016, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Some new closed headphones worth a look...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...aled-headphone
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...fun-very-tasty

Oppo fans may also want to check out Bob K.'s in-depth article on the HA-2 portable DAC/amp and PM-3 headphones here...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...oppo-explosion

New graphs of the closed on-ear planar-magnetic Audeze SINE, which should be reviewed by IF in the very near future...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeSINE.pdf
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post #172 of 201 Old 04-11-2016, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Tyll H. also did a recent podcast/Q&A for the Home Theater Geeks which can be found here...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-av...adphone-q.html

A lot of different topics discussed in this.

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post #173 of 201 Old 04-11-2016, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Meanwhile, back at camp ADU, I'm giving some thought to replacing my somewhat unreliable Nano Patch+ volume attenuator with this rather nifty lookin inline gadget from Rolls...

http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=HV6

Money is still very tight at camp ADU though, so I might just try to make due with the Nano til I'm ready to upgrade to a real amp.

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post #174 of 201 Old 04-12-2016, 02:41 PM
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The Audeze referred to is the new Sine which MSRP is $499 and a direct competitor to the Oppo PM3's mentioned earlier.

I did not read all 3 pages of this but honestly coming from someone who listens mostly to cans and has done so for decades shop and buy what sounds good to you. But and a big one is your source components will greatly affect the ones you pick, bad source material, cheaper amp/dac will make good ones sound soso. Make sure what you audition is using your source material and a very similar dac/amp that you plan to use. You've mentioned or been suggested some low cost dac/amp solutions so use those. Are you using computer audio or a DAP as your transport, that will also affect choices. Sennheiser 600/650 series are solid and within your range and respond well to amping andt could run out of a phone, Planar's no way out of a phone will you get good sound, don't care what anyone says. Hi Fi Man HE400s is an entry level Planar that works well but needs some amping help and you can find those under $300 as well. Grado's are great for Rock and Vocals but if you want bass, finite details and really good transparency might not suit you. BTW I own all the ones I just mentioned along with some expensive Planar's and I use the Senn 600's with a balanced cable more than anything second would be a cheap pair of Grado SR80's. You could get both of those for $300 if you shop around,minus the balanced cable.
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post #175 of 201 Old 04-12-2016, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

Oppo fans may also want to check out Bob K.'s in-depth article on the HA-2 portable DAC/amp and PM-3 headphones here...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...oppo-explosion
Very informative read. Thanks for the link. It made me feel much better about my purchase of the two
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post #176 of 201 Old 06-02-2016, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Harman Headphone Target Vs. Various In-room Loudspeaker Preferences

The next two posts are in response to this article/discussion between Warren TenBrook and Harman's Sean Olive...

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content...r-target-curve

Last year, Harman did a more extensive survey of bass and treble preferences for headphones. That study resulted in a new target headphone response curve which is shown in light blue on this graph...

http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/...Photo_Img5.jpg

The new target curve is basically the dashed green curve shown above (Loudspeaker EQ'd to a Flat In-room Response), plus the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve (shown in black) on slide 38 of this PDF...

https://db.tt/XMgixjBP

I was curious to see how this 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve (or "PIRL", for short) compared to the different in-room listener preference curves show in Figure 14 on page 528 of this PDF by Floyd Toole (an expert in the study of loudspeakers, and a consultant to Harman)...

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cf...9.pdf?ID=17839

The following graphs show the difference between the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve and the 3 different listener preference curves shown in that PDF. A flat horizontal line that parallels the white line on the graphs would indicate a precise match.







The best match above is the average in-room loudspeaker response preferred by all 11 listeners (7 trained, 4 untrained) in the study.

The PIRL/room correction in the latest Harman Headphone Target is rather "smiley" compared to the preferred in-room response of the trained listeners. And it's rather "frowny" compared to the untrained listeners' preference. IOW, the trained listeners preferred less bass and treble, and the untrained listeners preferred more bass and treble than is represented in the 2013 PIRL curve.

I also created a fourth curve for comparison that was exactly in between the trained and untrained listener preference curves...



Imo, the median curve between the trained and untrained listener curves is the best match to the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve, because it is the closest to a flat line. This essentially puts the latest Harman headphone target right in the middle of the subjectively preferred room responses for trained and untrained listeners.
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post #177 of 201 Old 06-02-2016, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Harman Headphone Target Vs. Loudspeakers in a Small Venue

The next couple of plots compare the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve (PIRL) to the in-room/steady-state response of a few good loudspeakers in a smaller venue, such as a home theater. The loudspeaker data for these graphs comes from Figure 13b on page 527 of Floyd Toole's PDF...

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cf...9.pdf?ID=17839

The first graph below shows a rough approximation of the overall in-room frequency response of the Infinity Prelude MTS, Revel Performa F208, and JBL M2 Monitor loudspeakers as a group. (The Holman & Green speaker curve is not included.) The two solid curves represent the "peaks" and "valleys" shown in that loudspeaker data. And the dashed line is the average of those two solid curves....



The next graph shows the difference between the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve on page 38 of this PDF...

https://db.tt/XMgixjBP

...and the approximate in-room response of the loudspeakers on the graph above. As in the last post, a flat horizontal line would indicate a precise match between the two...



The PIRL/room correction in the latest Harman Headphone Target is a relatively good match to the in-room response of the loudspeakers in this study in the middle of the frequency range. But it overshoots the response in the bass pretty significantly, and also in the upper treble.

IMO, the PIRL is overshooting the upper treble because it doesn't roll-off enough in that area.

The overshoot in the bass may be the result of several factors. The biggest factor is probably a lack of bass management (ie a sub-woofer) in at least some of the loudspeakers. The PIRL curve may also over-estimate the bass response for such a small venue though. Without a larger sampling in more venues, with bass management, it's hard to know for sure.
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post #178 of 201 Old 06-03-2016, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Here's how my in-ear EQed to sound flat with sine sweep:


My ear canal has resonance at 5k, 8k, 11.2k and 16k (looks like comb filtering) and the resonance amplified with volume.
Each ears are individual and has to be equalized individually AND at a specific volume lets say 80db 1K peak at the ear drum.
The Harman curve is great progress in headphone research to the ultimate goal of truly flat sounding headphone but what
the Harman curve does not take into consideration is personal ear canal resonance and personal listening volume which affects the resonance amplitude.

I guess in the near future we will see the manufacturers getting closer and closer to the Harman curve and will have smaller difference between headphones, but still, personal EQ for the perfect flat reproduction is necessary.
Furthermore, the hardware for this individual EQ is not yet convenient even for advanced listeners, we either use VST plugins in a DAW with a computer, or a hardware EQ.
A small portable DSP box with presets for each headphone loaded into them after tweaking with EQ on a computer and loaded via USB into it would be great little tool.
You know all of what you are looking for from a processor has been here for about 6 years.
Smyth Realiser http://www.smyth-research.com/technology.html

It seems that Smyth is coming out with a new processor next year at a much lower cost.

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post #179 of 201 Old 06-10-2016, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
The next couple of plots compare the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve (PIRL) to the in-room/steady-state response of a few good loudspeakers in a smaller venue, such as a home theater. The loudspeaker data for these graphs comes from Figure 13b on page 527 of Floyd Toole's PDF...

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cf...9.pdf?ID=17839

The first graph below shows a rough approximation of the overall in-room frequency response of the Infinity Prelude MTS, Revel Performa F208, and JBL M2 Monitor loudspeakers as a group...

...The PIRL/room correction in the latest Harman Headphone Target is a relatively good match to the in-room response of the loudspeakers in this study in the middle of the frequency range. But it overshoots the response in the bass pretty significantly, and also in the upper treble.

IMO, the PIRL is overshooting the upper treble because it doesn't roll-off enough in that area.

The overshoot in the bass may be the result of several factors. The biggest factor is probably a lack of bass management (ie a sub-woofer) in at least some of the loudspeakers. The PIRL curve may also over-estimate the bass response for such a small venue though. Without a larger sampling in more venues, with bass management, it's hard to know for sure.
ADU,

I'm putting together a similar summary and it *may* get posted to Innerfidelity, if Tyll is satisfied. The plan is to discuss some general philosophy behind these measurements with three data presentations:

1) the in-room loudspeaker responses at the listening area typically used in the Harman Reference Room (and also used for the Olive-Welti papers),
2) a predicted estimate of what those loudspeaker curves would look like using Harman's GRAS 43AG head (not every loudspeaker EQ of interest has actually been measured with their 43AG), and
3) Actual results using the 43AG and Tyll's Head Acoustics rig, with DF, ID plots as well.

I'm out and about this weekend and Todd Welti is forwarding some data to me in the meantime. Should be interesting!

Warren TenBrook
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post #180 of 201 Old 06-10-2016, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
The next couple of plots compare the 2013 Preferred In-Room Loudspeaker curve (PIRL) to the in-room/steady-state response of a few good loudspeakers in a smaller venue, such as a home theater. The loudspeaker data for these graphs comes from Figure 13b on page 527 of Floyd Toole's PDF...

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cf...9.pdf?ID=17839

The first graph below shows a rough approximation of the overall in-room frequency response of the Infinity Prelude MTS, Revel Performa F208, and JBL M2 Monitor loudspeakers as a group. (The Holman & Green speaker curve is not included.) The two solid curves represent the "peaks" and "valleys" shown in that loudspeaker data. And the dashed line is the average of those two solid curves....

....

The PIRL/room correction in the latest Harman Headphone Target is a relatively good match to the in-room response of the loudspeakers in this study in the middle of the frequency range. But it overshoots the response in the bass pretty significantly, and also in the upper treble.

IMO, the PIRL is overshooting the upper treble because it doesn't roll-off enough in that area.

The overshoot in the bass may be the result of several factors. The biggest factor is probably a lack of bass management (ie a sub-woofer) in at least some of the loudspeakers. The PIRL curve may also over-estimate the bass response for such a small venue though. Without a larger sampling in more venues, with bass management, it's hard to know for sure.
Didn't read first document, but did the second one, where they compared in room speakers with headphones in regards to response. Listeners had option to adjust bass, treble and volume. Since they have option to adjust volume it is very likely possible that listeners preferred lower volume then reference, but then kicked up bass significantly and that way reached perceptual flatness, sort of like they made equal loudness curve.

For example, average spl of 70dB above 200 Hz would mean that someone who prefers flat sound across spectrum would boost 40 Hz bass for +20dB to perceive it as flat, and thats pretty close to what you see on picture.
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