Need advice - Sony WH-1000XM3 for TV and movies?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-10-2018, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Need advice - Sony WH-1000XM3 for TV and movies??

I've never purchased wireless headphones before and will greatly appreciate any advice. I'm considering the Sony WH-1000XM3's for use with a 2016 model Sony TV with Bluetooth (model XBR65Z9D). The TV has Bluetooth version 4.1 and I believe the headphones have version 4.2. Is there any reason to be concerned with noticeable latency in this type of setup? Are there any other concerns with this type of approach? Thanks!!
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-12-2018, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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After some research, I'm going to try to answer my own question....


I believe that these Bluetooth headphones would be a poor choice for wirelessly watching TV or movies. I've found one site that has measured the Bluetooth latency as follows:

Default = 224ms
Aptx = 200ms

I believe that latency first becomes apparent around 100ms and would likely be distracting at the levels listed above.

I'm now considering one of the wireless Sennheiser RF series headphones such as the RF 175 or RF 185. Those have been measured at 55ms latency, which is among the best other than wireless gaming headphones.

I would still be interested in hearing other educated opinions on this. Thanks.
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-13-2018, 03:51 AM
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There is a low latency version of APTX, APTX LL.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/le...ec-is-the-best measured a 34 ms latency.

I don't think your TV support this codec
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-13-2018, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Roseval. I'm really thinking that either RF based wireless (and not all of those) or wired are the only "safe" approaches. From the many reviews I've read, it seems that there is a common theme that the Sennheiser RF headphones are consistently rated among the best for TV and movies. I'm currently gravitating towards the RF 175 or RF 185. The RF 165 appears to have a weaker transmitter and the RF 195 comes at a "cost" of about another 20ms latency (bringing it to around 75ms). I would like to hear from others who have compared these and/or have personal ownership experiences. Thanks.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-07-2019, 05:30 PM
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Bluetooth latency is 100-200 ms typically.

Creative has a product in development for 2nd half of 2019, the SXFI TV. Creative is using a proprietary 2.4 Ghz wireless connection that has a low latency of 10ms (claimed. I'm hopeful.)

Here's are some links from the CES demo discussing latency:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...r-xfi-11107938

https://www.techgoondu.com/2019/01/1...akers-in-2019/

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post #6 of 16 Old 02-11-2019, 03:17 PM
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I recently bought a RF185 for use with TV. Its latency is very low and totally acceptable for TV viewing. However, as it uses the 2.4GHz band, there is interference occasionally in Wi-Fi environment.
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post #7 of 16 Old 03-28-2019, 04:26 PM
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I had the same question as the OP, and just wanted to add my experience for posterity sake.

I use headphones almost exclusively for watching TV, movies, etc. 1) because the over the years I grew tired of my wife constantly telling me to turn down the volume while she's trying to sleep, and 2) because the level of detail you can hear far exceeds any conventional speakers in my opinion, especially dialogue.

With that said, I have use the Sennheiser RS 175 headphones for the last 2 or 3 years. I've had them connected to my Samsung TV via Toslink, and they've worked great, no complaints, except for one.... the build quality, especially for the price, is somewhat lacking. I already had to replace the ear cups one due to the fake leather flaking, and now the headband has finally started to flake (can't replace this). Also, in kine with the build materials, the Sennheiser RS series is starting to look a little dated, and are somewhat bulky.

The recent flaking of the headband fake leather, let me to figure it was time of a upgrade, after all, I've been using them like I said going on 3 years.

I've been wanting to make the jump, for watching my video, to bluetooth but the usual factors were still stored in my head from the last time I looked at headphones... the latency issue, audio quality, etc. I figured I'd give it a try, and if it didn't work out, oh well back to Amazon it would go, and I'd probably go with something like the Sennheiser RS 185.

***not to get side tracked here, but this is another reason I wanted to give bluetooth a try for tv/movie watching.... The sheer amount of options, build quality, updated technology, etc. that bluetooth has over a RF headphone is just stupid.... when the hell was the last time a quality RF headphone was released??? Like I said the Sennheiser line, which the probably the best in RF right now is starting to show it's age.***

Anyway, I got a pair of Sony WH-1000XM3. However, instead of pairing it with my TV's Bluetooth (witch it has), I wanted to make sure I was connecting at the best compression I could, so I also got a Oasis Plus transmitter, which supports aptx HD (and aptx LL).... so basically the little transmitter replaced the larger RF docking station, and is connected via a optical cable, and set to aptx HD. I know that LDAC is a even better codec, but as of right now, there are no LDAC transmitters, only receivers; once one comes to market I'll make the switch.

Now, my primary concern, the latency, turns out was all for naught. The audio appears to be spot on.... or at least to the point I can not detect it. I've done test on my TV with YouTube latency test, and also run the regular audio and Bluetooth audio at the same time, and it's all copacetic. Not saying this would be the case for everyone, or watching video on your phone.... but my Sony MX3's are spot on, and the detail in the sound appears to be even better than the RS 175 I replaced them with. Turn on the ANC and it's that much better.

Anyway, hope this helps.
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post #8 of 16 Old 04-27-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roseval View Post
There is a low latency version of APTX, APTX LL.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/le...ec-is-the-best measured a 34 ms latency.

I don't think your TV support this codec
To tag onto this (since I had a similar issue):

There's a brand named "AVANTREE" that has a line of APTX transmitters. Some of them plug directly into your computer, others are a standalone box that can take 3.5mm TRS or optical inputs.

However your headphones and receiver need to support APTX, which most headphones do not support.

There seems to be an ever revolving door of bluetooth codecs which your headphones and transmitter need to support. I finally ended up using my Xbox controller's 3.5mm headphone jack. By the time I had purchased a aptx transmitter and aptx headphones I was about the same price as a whole Xbox (while using headphones I already owned).


Downside was the APTx headphones mostly don't sound very good and there was always a bit of time spent trying to get the bluetooth to re-pair.
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-30-2019, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

However your headphones and receiver need to support APTX, which most headphones do not support.



Downside was the APTx headphones mostly don't sound very good .
The Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT are bluetooth 5.0 and support aptx.
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-09-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftks View Post
I had the same question as the OP, and just wanted to add my experience for posterity sake.

I use headphones almost exclusively for watching TV, movies, etc. 1) because the over the years I grew tired of my wife constantly telling me to turn down the volume while she's trying to sleep, and 2) because the level of detail you can hear far exceeds any conventional speakers in my opinion, especially dialogue.

With that said, I have use the Sennheiser RS 175 headphones for the last 2 or 3 years. I've had them connected to my Samsung TV via Toslink, and they've worked great, no complaints, except for one.... the build quality, especially for the price, is somewhat lacking. I already had to replace the ear cups one due to the fake leather flaking, and now the headband has finally started to flake (can't replace this). Also, in kine with the build materials, the Sennheiser RS series is starting to look a little dated, and are somewhat bulky.

The recent flaking of the headband fake leather, let me to figure it was time of a upgrade, after all, I've been using them like I said going on 3 years.

I've been wanting to make the jump, for watching my video, to bluetooth but the usual factors were still stored in my head from the last time I looked at headphones... the latency issue, audio quality, etc. I figured I'd give it a try, and if it didn't work out, oh well back to Amazon it would go, and I'd probably go with something like the Sennheiser RS 185.

***not to get side tracked here, but this is another reason I wanted to give bluetooth a try for tv/movie watching.... The sheer amount of options, build quality, updated technology, etc. that bluetooth has over a RF headphone is just stupid.... when the hell was the last time a quality RF headphone was released??? Like I said the Sennheiser line, which the probably the best in RF right now is starting to show it's age.***

Anyway, I got a pair of Sony WH-1000XM3. However, instead of pairing it with my TV's Bluetooth (witch it has), I wanted to make sure I was connecting at the best compression I could, so I also got a Oasis Plus transmitter, which supports aptx HD (and aptx LL).... so basically the little transmitter replaced the larger RF docking station, and is connected via a optical cable, and set to aptx HD. I know that LDAC is a even better codec, but as of right now, there are no LDAC transmitters, only receivers; once one comes to market I'll make the switch.

Now, my primary concern, the latency, turns out was all for naught. The audio appears to be spot on.... or at least to the point I can not detect it. I've done test on my TV with YouTube latency test, and also run the regular audio and Bluetooth audio at the same time, and it's all copacetic. Not saying this would be the case for everyone, or watching video on your phone.... but my Sony MX3's are spot on, and the detail in the sound appears to be even better than the RS 175 I replaced them with. Turn on the ANC and it's that much better.

Anyway, hope this helps.
Are you still happy with the Sony WH-1000XM3 and Oasis Plus Transmitter combo? My 5 year Sennheiser setup is given me some sync issues. Thinking about ordering the same thing you have. Thanks in advance.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-10-2019, 05:17 PM
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I have the Sony WH-1000XM2 and XM3 and both work well with my 2018 model Sony XBR930ES using AptX HD. They also work with a Bluetooth 5.0 box called a Henkur Long Range BlueTooth Xmitter I found on Amazon recently. Latency not an issue with either set-up.

That said, for TV viewing I have used the Sennheiser RS180 for years and recently switched to the RS185 to gain some equalization curves for hearing loss. As has been noted by others, they have low latency and outstanding audio quality. I would recommend going this route if RF interference is not a problem. I live in the sticks and can't even detect any wi-fi bases other than my own so it's not a problem for me even though I have 30+ wi-fi devices scattered around.

I'd prefer to stay with the RS-195 but I've had no problem with the closed back, noise0-reducing Sony's on Bluetooth and I like the quality of their audio.
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-10-2019, 05:19 PM
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I have the Sony WH-1000XM2 and XM3 and both work well with my 2018 model Sony XBR930ES using AptX HD. They also work with a Bluetooth 5.0 box called a Henkur Long Range BlueTooth Xmitter I found on Amazon recently. Latency not an issue with either set-up.

That said, for TV viewing I have used the Sennheiser RS180 for years and recently switched to the RS185 to gain some equalization curves for hearing loss. As has been noted by others, they have low latency and outstanding audio quality. I would recommend going this route if RF interference is not a problem. I live in the sticks and can't even detect any wi-fi bases other than my own so it's not a problem for me even though I have 30+ wi-fi devices scattered around.

I'd prefer to stay with the RS-195 but I've had no problem with the closed back, noise-reducing Sony's on Bluetooth and I like the quality of their audio.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-10-2019, 05:20 PM
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Sorry for the double post--don't know how I did that. I'm new here.
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-27-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchassy View Post
I have the Sony WH-1000XM2 and XM3 and both work well with my 2018 model Sony XBR930ES using AptX HD. They also work with a Bluetooth 5.0 box called a Henkur Long Range BlueTooth Xmitter I found on Amazon recently. Latency not an issue with either set-up.

Does your Sony TV have android 8 OS, and if so, doesn't that support the LDAC codec natively? I'd expect that to be even better than AptX.
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-27-2019, 07:58 PM
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It did not come with Android 8 and I have not updated it. I use it mostly for dialog so I haven't sought out LDAC but I believe you are correct that it should support LDAC. I'll try it when I get home on about 5 weeks...
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post #16 of 16 Old 09-28-2019, 10:52 PM
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I had the chance to use the Sennheiser RS 175 headphones 2 years ago. This is a pretty fair headphone that I used on my Samsung TV. Didn't have any issue with latency of the sound when I'm watching. But this was 2 years ago. Not sure if they now have a different bluetooth headphone but if this brand worked for me without any audio latency, I think you might consider them too.
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