Headphone Surround Sound - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 14Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 112 Old 01-24-2019, 12:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
With the Mobius using Waves NX(with the head measurements set in the app) and the headtracking, I get extremely accurate placement of the virtual speakers, but it's a much smaller room
Btw.: I know that effect, most VSS solutions sound to me as if the virtual speakers are just 10-15cm away from my head, PLUS: the whole "sound field" seems to be "scaled down" to the size of a box around my head...

Last edited by FLIR; 01-24-2019 at 12:27 PM.
FLIR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 112 Old 01-24-2019, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIR View Post
At the moment I have a very simple setup: I use just the Equalizer APO and some settings to "real-time-convolve 7.1 input sounds down to binaural stereo audio for headphones" (see [1])
I tried hesuvi a while back but found the convolution engine to have inferior performance to OOYH and even Waves NX. It was a couple years ago now so it could have improved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIR View Post
I have used OOYH a year ago and tested different presets in a computer game with good directional sounds at different distances. I liked the the sound quality and the low latency. But I always have the "feeling" that the VSS, the "externalization", could be better. I have heard some good binaural recordings years ago and since this moment I am kind of obsessed to get that kind of quality for movies and games.

But I will try OOYH again with your setup: It looks very promising...
The equalization makes all the difference if headphones follow the Harman curve where 2khz+ is raised up 10db+. Attached the EQ for my Stax SR-207(15db peak at 3-4khz over the bass/lower mid range), by looking at it, it should terrible, but it sounds like an ideal response, snares snap, cymbals sparkle, etc. etc. Hell, with some recordings(f'ing lofi black metal) it still sounds too bright with certain presets(Genelec, Ribbon, Cello) and I find I need to use something like the Magico Q3 preset which is much warmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIR View Post
PS4 and an UHD-Player...
This is the real problem we're running into as we discussed in the other thread, there's nothing [affordable] with some type of personalized measurements for surround sound and/or PRIR for consoles/bdps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIR View Post
Btw.: I know that effect, most VSS solutions sound to me like the virtual speakers are just 10-15cm away from my head, PLUS: the whole "sound field" seems to be "scaled down" to the size of a box around my head...
Yup, this is where Waves NX, OOYH, and the Headspeaker have accelled in actually getting the virtual speakers out into the room as opposed to right in front of your eyes. The EQ helps with this as well, providing better imaging.

On the Auduze Mobius I managed to push the virtual stage out a foot or two with a pad change, the stock pads are thin flat and shallow, I switched to the Brainwavz angeld pleather and the soundstage greatly improved, as well as improving treble performance and imaging, that + additional EQ makes for a really incredible bluetooth heaphone.

But even using OOYH, the difference in soundstage vs the Audeze EL-8 with Dekoni LCD Velour pads(huge angled pads) vs the Stax SR-207(shallow pleather pads), is immense. Using the Genelec preset, speaker locations are about a foot out with the Stax and more like 5 feet with the EL-8. When using a more reverberant preset like the Egyptian Theater or Cello Stradavari, the Stax don't go out much further, a foot or two maybe, where the EL-8 sounds like a huge room in terms of distance.

I know this is a point of contention with some, but this is also an area I found DACs to make a huge difference in their ability to accurately render the characteristics of PRIR, the speakers, their equipment, and the rooms they're in. All aspects of the system the same, an Audio-GD NFB-7 sounds much much fuller, more spacious, and images better than an Audio-GD NFB-11, they use essentially the same DAC chip, the difference is in the power supplies and output stages.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Stax SR-207 EQ.png
Views:	16
Size:	30.0 KB
ID:	2515594  
FLIR likes this.
bdht is offline  
post #33 of 112 Old 01-27-2019, 07:53 PM
Member
 
htn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 3
In 2016 settled for the Sony MDRDS6500 (optical connection) headphones because it supported Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS. Ever since then, I've been searching for a headset that has Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD MA, and DTS:X since the Sony MDRDS6500 only supported Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS.

My Sony MDRDS6500 is setup to both my Xbox One S and my LG TV (I alternate between optical cables).

When I want to stream via my Plex server, I used my LG TV and the Sony headphones.

When I want to watch blu-rays, I use my Xbox One S and the Sony headphones.

My question is: does anyone know of a wireless headset that supports all the audio options I'm looking for?

MY OPTIONS THUS FAR:

  • The Sony MDR-HW700DS seems to support most audio, but not Atmos. It's an HDMI connection and not an optical connection like the MDRDS6500, which is a plus.
  • The Plantronics RIG 800LX is solely focused on Atmos (not sure if it has TrueHD) and can be used on the Xbox One. It doesn't support any DTS

++++++++++++++
- LG OLED55E6P | OLED | 4K | HDR | 3D
- ONKYO HT-S7800 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home
- XBOX ONE S
- Apple TV 4K
htn00b is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 112 Old 01-27-2019, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by htn00b View Post
My question is: does anyone know of a wireless headset that supports all the audio options I'm looking for?
If not using a PC your best option is to probably just stick with the 6500 for now.

The Smyth Realiser A16 will be the only device that can accept Atmos audio and output true 16 channel headphone surround.

Using a PC and Out of Your Head is the next best option, with lossless 7.1.

With both those options you could use rf headphones or a bluetooth transmitter for wireless.

The Plantronics 800LX has a prepaid code for using Dolby Atmos for Headphones over Windows 10 or the Xbox. This HRTF solution is ok, giving you surround but little externalization, similar to what you're used to with the 6500. When using an Xbox, the xbox will use the 7.1 truehd track of an Atmos mix, decode, and send 7.1 pcm to the renderer, which will output a binaural stereo mix to your headphones. So when using an xbox this could provide lossless surround since it will send 2.0 pcm over optical, you won't get any surround using the optical from your tv though as there's no builtin virtualization.

The 700ds has hdmi but its only hdmi 1.4, so no full 4k playback.
bdht is offline  
post #35 of 112 Old 01-28-2019, 08:17 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post

I know this is a point of contention with some, but this is also an area I found DACs to make a huge difference in their ability to accurately render the characteristics of PRIR, the speakers, their equipment, and the rooms they're in. All aspects of the system the same, an Audio-GD NFB-7 sounds much much fuller, more spacious, and images better than an Audio-GD NFB-11, they use essentially the same DAC chip, the difference is in the power supplies and output stages.
Thanks for all the detailed information - this is very valuable for me! Your equipment is a lot more expensive than everything I have got and I will try the even cheaper SXFI Amp this week. I need VSS only for movies and games (The SXFI amp has reverb and seems to be not very good at "rendering" vocals - so no music in my case).

May I ask you another question:

Two things seems to be essential for "perfect" VSS:

1. Your personal HRTF (contained within the PRIR loudspeaker measurement data)
2. Head tracking

Without head tracking every little movement will "collapse" the "out of your head" effect. I always think of my dog: Whenever he hears something and it is not clear from what direction (a distant church bell for example) he starts to move his head around while listening, to track down the exact direction of the sound. Sometimes his head movements are very subtle, but they seem to allow precise "detection"...

You said that you have got the Audeze Mobius with HT: What do you think about it? How important is HT?
FLIR is offline  
post #36 of 112 Old 01-28-2019, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
[QUOTE=FLIR;57512282]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
May I ask you another question:

Two things seems to be essential for "perfect" VSS:

1. Your personal HRTF (contained within the PRIR loudspeaker measurement data)
2. Head tracking

You said that you have got the Audeze Mobius with HT: What do you think about it? How important is HT?
For perfection, yes your own PRIR and head tracking are necessary, but so are responsive headphones with a large soundstage(Sennheiser HD800), headphone correction, and equipment capable of rendering the virtualization.

For a significantly better than every other option, using OOYH with a good pair of open fast headphones like say the Hifiman HE400i(could also use some nondestructive modding for best performance but not necessary) and equalizing 2-6khz down results in great externalization and detail. As far as equipment goes I'd just recommend an optical connection for isolation from the computer, it's not as detailed but the cleaner sound will allow the VSS to work better, and USB isolation is expensive(Schiit Eitr or Uptone ISO Regen).

The equipment is only necessary for increased realism and fidelity. The PRIR is necessary for accurate placement of the virtual loudspeakers, however, I've found just using any PRIR is a more externalized and natural sounding effect than using algorithm based HRTF. i.e. Using OOYH vs using Waves NX. For instance when using Waves NX I dont like to go over 30(of 100) on the room ambience(or reverb / first reflection algorithm) setting, but using the more reverberant rooms in OOYH sounds incredible(however, this is an area where equipment made a very large difference in fidelity and fatigue).

Head tracking does improve virtualization but isn't necessary, and moving your head doesn't collapse the virtual surround field, only a large movement will say, shift the center channel to the left or right. It does work really well though I don't want to take anything away from it. The Mobius' and Dspeaker Headspeaker's head tracking solutions work really well and improve algorithm based convolution.

I like the Mobius, but I use them exclusively as bluetooth headphones, and for my preference they still needed additional EQ, as well as a pad change. They use Waves NX(algorithm based HRTF). Without the pad change and eq the externalization is only slightly better than any other headphone surround solution(dolby headphone, etc.), with it the externalization pushes out a little bit further, but nothing compared to OOYH with a good pair of open headphones. As an all in one package the Mobius is impressive, Audeze planar magnetic drivers, LDAC Bluetooth 5.0, active headphones(built in amp and dac), built in DSP(Waves NX, EQ presets), builtin head tracking. They're one of a kind and sound amazing, but if I can use a computer I prefer using OOYH and my desktop systems. It results in more externalization, a bigger fuller sound and more detailed sound.

1.) The important thing that's missing in basically every solution except the Realiser is the Headphone Correction. Without it VSS tends to sound thin and lifeless due to the double HRTF. I find I use the same headphone eq with any VSS I use.

2.) The only PRIR VSS available is Out of Your Head. These are the two things I'm recommending which I've found to be a better experience than anything else on the market except the actual Realiser. OOYH is free to try, you click on a preset, and have 2 minutes before it stops playback and selecting a different preset resets the timer at any point.

Getting into equipment is a different story and why I've tried to just give opinions on what devices I've found to be more effective. Open responsive headphones, isolation from the PC and AC mains, simple DAC circuits with strong power supplies as opposed to DSP or R2R based units.
FLIR likes this.
bdht is offline  
post #37 of 112 Old 01-28-2019, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
If you're interested, heres the pad mod(Brainwavz Angled Pleather) and the EQ for the Mobius. The pic with the mic is the stock pads. I needed to make a baffle because the stock pads are attached to a mounting ring and the aftermarket pads sounded horrible without it. The pad change pushed the drivers further out and angled them, improving the waveform and reduced treble ringing/resonance, improving imaging and soundstage. The additional Eq flattens out the response. This pushed the front soundstage forward a foot or two and resulted in really great clarity and detail. Starting with the Music preset I still needed to pull 3khz down 5 db though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mobius-comfort-large_1548705869883.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	2.67 MB
ID:	2517494   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_154121_1548705894540.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	1.73 MB
ID:	2517496   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_154212_1548705916162.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	1.59 MB
ID:	2517498   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_154221_1548705968786.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	1.69 MB
ID:	2517500   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_155358_1548705986200.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	1.43 MB
ID:	2517502  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_155415_1548705995143.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	1.39 MB
ID:	2517504   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181008_155418_1548706004049.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	1.52 MB
ID:	2517506   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20190128-145939_USB Audio Player PRO_1548706457418.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	1,007.5 KB
ID:	2517520  
FLIR likes this.

Last edited by bdht; 01-28-2019 at 12:29 PM.
bdht is offline  
post #38 of 112 Old 01-31-2019, 04:30 PM
Member
 
htn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If not using a PC your best option is to probably just stick with the 6500 for now.

The Smyth Realiser A16 will be the only device that can accept Atmos audio and output true 16 channel headphone surround.

Using a PC and Out of Your Head is the next best option, with lossless 7.1.

With both those options you could use rf headphones or a bluetooth transmitter for wireless.

The Plantronics 800LX has a prepaid code for using Dolby Atmos for Headphones over Windows 10 or the Xbox. This HRTF solution is ok, giving you surround but little externalization, similar to what you're used to with the 6500. When using an Xbox, the xbox will use the 7.1 truehd track of an Atmos mix, decode, and send 7.1 pcm to the renderer, which will output a binaural stereo mix to your headphones. So when using an xbox this could provide lossless surround since it will send 2.0 pcm over optical, you won't get any surround using the optical from your tv though as there's no builtin virtualization.

The 700ds has hdmi but its only hdmi 1.4, so no full 4k playback.
- I'm not using a PC so I'll have to stick to what's available for my setup for now.

- That Smyth Realiser A16 is insane. It does everything I want it to but unfortunately it's too expensive ($3,000+).

- The Plantronics 800LX seems like a solution for watching movies (Blu-ray Discs and MKV files) with an Atmos track.

- As for the the Sony 700DS, isn't the 4k only related to the video quality, not the audio quality? I'm not an audio expert so I'm a little confused. If I use it when listing to audio from Blu-ray Discs on the XBbox and MKV files streaming from my media server, won't I be able to hear TrueHD and DTS-HD MA? Isn't the 700DS better than my current MDR-DS6500?

In summary, it seems that my setup should consist of the Plantronics 800LX (for Atmos) and the Sony 700DS (for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA).

Thx!

++++++++++++++
- LG OLED55E6P | OLED | 4K | HDR | 3D
- ONKYO HT-S7800 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home
- XBOX ONE S
- Apple TV 4K

Last edited by htn00b; 01-31-2019 at 04:40 PM.
htn00b is offline  
post #39 of 112 Old 01-31-2019, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by htn00b View Post
- The Plantronics 800LX seems like a solution for watching movies (Blu-ray Discs and MKV files) with an Atmos track.
It seems like it, but it's not, it just includes a prepaid code for the "Atmos for Headphones" virtualizer which will render binaural stereo from 2.0 to 7.1 pcm. It can't decode an atmos track or render height channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htn00b View Post
- As for the the Sony 700DS, isn't the 4k only related to the video quality, not the audio quality? I'm not an audio expert so I'm a little confused. If I use it when listing to audio from Blu-ray Discs on the XBbox and MKV files streaming from my media server, won't I be able to hear TrueHD and DTS-HD MA? Isn't the 700DS better than my current MDR-DS6500?
If you're not using 4k it's not a problem. The issue with the 700ds is hdmi1.4 ports that cant pass full 4k hdr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htn00b View Post
In summary, it seems that my setup should consist of the Plantronics 800LX (for Atmos) and the Sony 700DS (for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA).
If you're only using an xbox, and the xbox can decode blu ray audio and send it to the Atmos for Headphones renderer, that may be a better choice than the hw700ds, because you can use any headphones you want, something like the massdrop he4xx(unless you need noise isolation), a much more balanced and responsive headphone than the other options. I don't own an xbox and I couldnt adequately advise on how to get the audio out of it, if you just plug into the controller or use usb or optical to a portable dac/amp.
bdht is offline  
post #40 of 112 Old 02-01-2019, 01:15 PM
Member
 
curtw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If not using a PC your best option is to probably just stick with the 6500 for now.
What about using/hacking the Razer Tiamat 7.1 headset? Real surround instead of virtual. Theoretically, its inputs could be connected to a receiver's speaker outputs, true? If course, the speaker output for the subwoofer is going to be line-level, so add one extra channel of amplification.

This tosses out the concept of wireless, but I would rather have good surround through a cable than lame surround wirelessly.

Last edited by curtw; 02-01-2019 at 01:19 PM.
curtw is offline  
post #41 of 112 Old 02-01-2019, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtw View Post
What about using/hacking the Razer Tiamat 7.1 headset? Real surround instead of virtual. Theoretically, its inputs could be connected to a receiver's speaker outputs, true? If course, the speaker output for the subwoofer is going to be line-level, so add one extra channel of amplification.

This tosses out the concept of wireless, but I would rather have good surround through a cable than lame surround wirelessly.
Those multi driver headsets are vastly inferior to PRIR HRTF binaural convolution. and no more externalized than things like dolby headphone, atmos for headphones, dts headphone x, sennheiser gsx, creative cmss or sbx, and honestly those hrtf renderers work better than the 5 discrete drivers in one earcup. Think about all the reflections from all those drivers in the ear cup. Perhaps with significant dsp to the individual drivers it could work better, but they act as discrete channels and thats counter to how are ears work, 2 ears to locate sound sources. Take stereo headphones and move them forward on your head a bit, there's your front/left right drivers, move them back and there's your surround drivers, does it actually sound like speakers out in front of or behind you? nope. Angling the drivers and moving them forward does improve the waveform, however, which improves soundstaging and imaging(i.e. Sennheiser HD800), but it still doesn't do what binaural rendering does.

As far as hooking it up to an AVRs speaker outputs? I'm gonna go with no do not hook up 32ohm 20-40mm headphone drivers to speaker amplifiers. Maybe if your AVR has preouts for all channels this could work.

Its an interesting idea though ;]

Last edited by bdht; 02-01-2019 at 02:59 PM.
bdht is offline  
post #42 of 112 Old 02-03-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexious View Post
Great thread. I'm also looking into this very topic and will definitely try Out of Your Head and report back.
However, I wanted to point out another surround sound solution, Nahimic. The interesting part is that it also works with HDMI devices, for instance. The caveat, on the other hand, is that it can apparently be only enabled on MSI and soon Gigabyte motherboards and laptops.
Did you ever try OOYH and equalizing? The real time sound object radar in nahimic is pretty cool.
bdht is offline  
post #43 of 112 Old 02-07-2019, 06:31 AM
Member
 
Oregon Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Banks, OR
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I asked the SXFI support team about home theater headphones, and got this response:

Is there a product in the works for those of who want to use headphones with our home theater systems during the times we have to keep the volume down?
On the Creative website, I only see the SXFI working from phone or PC inputs. I don’t see an option the will support output straight from our Dolby/DTS home theater AVR or Blu-ray player audio formats.


There are 2 SXFI products that are still in development stages that will address your direct needs and these 2 products were demoed in CES 2019.
1.The SXFI TV that will support multichannel audio which are Dolby encoded via HDMI.
2.The SXFI Theater headphones which works on wireless technology.
As these 2 products are still in development stages, you will not be able to find it on Creative.com.


I was unaware these were in the works. It looks like the SXFI TV is the one that most of us will want. A sneak peak is linked below:


https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-sneak-peek-creative-sxfi-theater-headphones-and-creative-sxfi-tv


This may all be old news on this forum. I'm just posting because it is new for me.




Last edited by Oregon Chris; 02-07-2019 at 04:23 PM.
Oregon Chris is offline  
post #44 of 112 Old 02-07-2019, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Ah cool thanks for posting I hadn't heard about those yet, I'll add em to the op
bdht is offline  
post #45 of 112 Old 02-22-2019, 12:23 PM
Member
 
htn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If you're not using 4k it's not a problem. The issue with the 700ds is hdmi1.4 ports that cant pass full 4k hdr.
Is it possible to just use the optical connection on the 700ds and connect that to my TV? That way I can still watch 4k HDR on the TV while changing the audio setting to the 700ds via optical. That would then give me the DTS-HD MA and TrueHD while still enjoying the 4K HDR (I wouldn't use the HDMI1.4 ports at all then on the 700ds).

Does that make sense?

Thanks again for your help!

++++++++++++++
- LG OLED55E6P | OLED | 4K | HDR | 3D
- ONKYO HT-S7800 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home
- XBOX ONE S
- Apple TV 4K
htn00b is offline  
post #46 of 112 Old 02-22-2019, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by htn00b View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If you're not using 4k it's not a problem. The issue with the 700ds is hdmi1.4 ports that cant pass full 4k hdr.
Is it possible to just use the optical connection on the 700ds and connect that to my TV? That way I can still watch 4k HDR on the TV while changing the audio setting to the 700ds via optical. That would then give me the DTS-HD MA and TrueHD while still enjoying the 4K HDR (I wouldn't use the HDMI1.4 ports at all then on the 700ds).

Does that make sense?

Thanks again for your help!
You can use optical but you'll be limited to 5.1 lossy dd/dts
bdht is offline  
post #47 of 112 Old 02-22-2019, 01:54 PM
Member
 
htn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
You can use optical but you'll be limited to 5.1 lossy dd/dts
Dang. I guess Ill have to wait until someone releases the setup I'm looking for. Thanks for the help!

++++++++++++++
- LG OLED55E6P | OLED | 4K | HDR | 3D
- ONKYO HT-S7800 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home
- XBOX ONE S
- Apple TV 4K
htn00b is offline  
post #48 of 112 Old 02-23-2019, 12:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Worf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,181
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Liked: 535
The 700DS works with the AVR key.
Worf is offline  
post #49 of 112 Old 02-23-2019, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
The 700DS works with the AVR key.
O hadn't thought of that, thanks!
bdht is offline  
post #50 of 112 Old 03-12-2019, 07:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mattg3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,704
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
Liked: 304
Live in a condo with a large 7.1.2 surround sound system and a Sony Oled. Cant open the sound up after 7PM thus Ive just started looking for headphones connected through my receiver to take care of after hours movie audio.A wired connection for my setup is the best way to go. I have no interest in gaming. After reading through this topic it looks like something is coming but nothing out there right now that will provide a simple headphone solution. If im wrong here please let me know. Thanks

Matt
mattg3 is offline  
post #51 of 112 Old 03-12-2019, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Live in a condo with a large 7.1.2 surround sound system and a Sony Oled. Cant open the sound up after 7PM thus Ive just started looking for headphones connected through my receiver to take care of after hours movie audio.A wired connection for my setup is the best way to go. I have no interest in gaming. After reading through this topic it looks like something is coming but nothing out there right now that will provide a simple headphone solution. If im wrong here please let me know. Thanks
So...
Your AVR probably has a "virtual" setting for headphones, which is typically stereo crossfeed and reverb, which should provide a larger more out of the head experience but without surround sound.

There are a couple wireless headphones and external soundcards that can accept a dolby digital or dts 5.1 signal via optical, and have virtualization builtin. You may need to use an hdmi audio extractor if your avr doesnt have an optical output. These often arent the most externalized but have surround sound.

HTPC is the best for virtual surround, even a laptop. And it seems like its going to stay that way for some time as the Realiser A16 is expensive. If you find yourself wanting headphone surround sound regularly you may want to consider this.

You can also consider some tweaks to your surround system. Using something like Denons Dynamic Volume can really help control loudness while still providing a good surround experience. Isolating the subwoofers with sorbothane will prevent low frequencies from traveling out of the room. And using bass shakers(tactile transducers) will provide the rumble that you loose from isolating the subwoofers.
mattg3 likes this.
bdht is offline  
post #52 of 112 Old 03-13-2019, 09:12 AM
Member
 
FGEvans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 16
does the sony 700ds work with arc - my set up is as follows

4K sony TV HDR etc
xbox one x
PC for gaming and my ripped UHD's
SKY tv

I have a dennon x2200 atmos amp and a 7.1 speaker set up. all my devices including pc are run though my amp

however at night when my wife is sleeping i use headphones

I have a set of AD900's Audio Techna and a set of HD599 (both open backed)

I have netflix and amazon on my TV which i run through arc through my amp.

to get around the 4khdr limit on the sony will it take the arc audio from the TV or should i look elsewhere for a solution
FGEvans is offline  
post #53 of 112 Old 03-13-2019, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGEvans View Post
does the sony 700ds work with arc - my set up is as follows

4K sony TV HDR etc
xbox one x
PC for gaming and my ripped UHD's
SKY tv

I have a dennon x2200 atmos amp and a 7.1 speaker set up. all my devices including pc are run though my amp

however at night when my wife is sleeping i use headphones

I have a set of AD900's Audio Techna and a set of HD599 (both open backed)

I have netflix and amazon on my TV which i run through arc through my amp.

to get around the 4khdr limit on the sony will it take the arc audio from the TV or should i look elsewhere for a solution
Use your PC!

The best software available for headphone surround sound is https://fongaudio.com/ and your AD900s and HD599s are the easiest headphones to equalize

The AD900s need a -15db peaking filter at 4khz, qfactor maybe 1 to 1.5
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images...caATHAD900.pdf
The HD599s need a -10-15db peaking filter at 3.5khz, qfactor 1.5 to 2.0, I'm pretty sure they have a similar response to the rest of the hd5xx hd6xx line
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images...eiserHD600.pdf

You'll set the audio to output from the player to OOYH, and then OOYH will send the audio to your AVR, which I take it is what you're plugging your headphones into at the moment? Don't have to buy anything, test OOYH and the EQ and see if you like it, I'm sure you'll be blown away.

https://fongaudio.com/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

And the attached image is what the filters in eqapo look like(dont use the ones in the image they're for a different pair of headphones)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.png
Views:	17
Size:	112.9 KB
ID:	2538510  
bdht is offline  
post #54 of 112 Old 03-14-2019, 05:05 AM
Member
 
FGEvans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 16
cheers - tried the sampled sounds last night and was amazed how good they sound. Has anyone simply bought the cheaper game only version of the software as i have no interest in music - just movie and tv soundtracks etc

I assume the software will work with any media player on the PC - my choice is MPC-BE
FGEvans is offline  
post #55 of 112 Old 03-14-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGEvans View Post
cheers - tried the sampled sounds last night and was amazed how good they sound. Has anyone simply bought the cheaper game only version of the software as i have no interest in music - just movie and tv soundtracks etc

I assume the software will work with any media player on the PC - my choice is MPC-BE
The gaming preset doesn't use measured room impulse response of various rooms, so while it's effective, it doesn't sound as spacious and natural as the other presets, which are made using a Smyth Realiser A8, taking measurements of home theaters, movie theaters, recording studios, and hifi listening rooms. Another affordable option is Waves NX https://www.waves.com/nx/mac-windows-app

In any case don't forget to EQ your headphones as it will sound significantly better, less bright/piercing/sibilant, fuller bass, more spacious and natural.

I use mpc hc so yes any player will work.
bdht is offline  
post #56 of 112 Old 03-14-2019, 09:27 AM
Member
 
FGEvans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
The gaming preset doesn't use measured room impulse response of various rooms, so while it's effective, it doesn't sound as spacious and natural as the other presets, which are made using a Smyth Realiser A8, taking measurements of home theaters, movie theaters, recording studios, and hifi listening rooms. Another affordable option is Waves NX https://www.waves.com/nx/mac-windows-app

In any case don't forget to EQ your headphones as it will sound significantly better, less bright/piercing/sibilant, fuller bass, more spacious and natural.

I use mpc hc so yes any player will work.
CHEERS

now have to work out how to EQ my headphones
FGEvans is offline  
post #57 of 112 Old 03-14-2019, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGEvans View Post
CHEERS

now have to work out how to EQ my headphones
As detailed in my previous post, it's very simple and any questions don't hesitate to ask, happy to help.

For the full license presets of OOYH, I'd recommend starting with the Genelec(Rs) preset and comparing that to the Gaming preset, it's a very treated space, while still getting the virtual speakers further out of your head(heh) and sounding much larger and fuller. I also like the Magico Q3(Mg) for a warmer bassier sound or the Cello(Ce) for a big room sound.
The Cello or the more reverberant rooms are especially fun for older movies like... Robocop.
bdht is offline  
post #58 of 112 Old 03-15-2019, 02:17 AM
Member
 
FGEvans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I cant seem to get this working with my PC and AV set up. When i install OOYH it apepars as a virtual sound card etc in my sound settings. However my output device is my dennon av amplifier which appears as its own output device (HDMI). My headphones are plugged into the amplifier (dennon).

therefore the Dennon is not using the OOYH sound card

I assume that with OOYH you are meant to plug headphones directly into my pc which in my set up is not possible.

I did manage to get the equalizer to work and that seems to work.

In the OOYH settings screen there are 3 output devices listed including the dennon but you cant select one and with the trial software it asks for a licence everytime you try to change a speaker preset.

Its odd as the audio files on their website certainly work
FGEvans is offline  
post #59 of 112 Old 03-15-2019, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FGEvans View Post
I cant seem to get this working with my PC and AV set up. When i install OOYH it apepars as a virtual sound card etc in my sound settings. However my output device is my dennon av amplifier which appears as its own output device (HDMI). My headphones are plugged into the amplifier (dennon).

therefore the Dennon is not using the OOYH sound card

I assume that with OOYH you are meant to plug headphones directly into my pc which in my set up is not possible.

I did manage to get the equalizer to work and that seems to work.

In the OOYH settings screen there are 3 output devices listed including the dennon but you cant select one and with the trial software it asks for a licence everytime you try to change a speaker preset.

Its odd as the audio files on their website certainly work
In windows OOYH should be set as default sound device, your player is either set to default or OOYH, and OOYH is set to the Denon. That should work I have a Denon as well and can use it.

Before launching OOYH make sure the Denon is set as the default device, and it should automatically set OOYH as default when you launch the program.

The gaming preset has a 1 week unlimited trial and the full license presets are on a 2 minute timer, you can switch between them at any point under 2 minutes and you wont get the license alert.
bdht is offline  
post #60 of 112 Old 03-16-2019, 11:08 AM
Member
 
pg22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Was poking around my brand-new XB1X today when I started tinkering with the Dolby Atmos app (for headphones).

How does one connect stereo headphones directly into an Xbox? Some kind of 3.5mm (1/8") <> USB/Optical adaptor?

Thanks!
pg22 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Headphones

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off