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post #121 of 129 Old 02-01-2020, 02:29 PM
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First of all, thank you bdht for all the answers and help.


Ok, so you say head tracking helps. I'll try disabling my webcam and see if there's a difference. I'll report back on that.



Presets in the trial are: Multimedia, Voice, Movie Theatre. At first glance they seemed to have more to do with tonality/EQ than room size. But I might be mistaken.

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
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post #122 of 129 Old 02-01-2020, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
First of all, thank you bdht for all the answers and help. Ok, so you say head tracking helps. I'll try disabling my webcam and see if there's a difference. I'll report back on that. Presets in the trial are: Multimedia, Voice, Movie Theatre. At first glance they seemed to have more to do with tonality/EQ than room size. But I might be mistaken.
You're welcome :] the head tracking is pretty cool actually. Ive got a dspeaker headspeaker as well and it really helps. I wish OOYH had the ability to add one or maybe at some point jak will add functionality to the Impulcifier.

Ya im pretty sure that waves preset is a first reflection setting. With binaural rendering, the more reflections the "brighter" the sound so it can help to eq the treble down in the 2-6khz range especially for beyerdynamics if you want a more spacious and externalized sound.
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post #123 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If you're interested, heres the pad mod(Brainwavz Angled Pleather) and the EQ for the Mobius. The pic with the mic is the stock pads. I needed to make a baffle because the stock pads are attached to a mounting ring and the aftermarket pads sounded horrible without it. The pad change pushed the drivers further out and angled them, improving the waveform and reduced treble ringing/resonance, improving imaging and soundstage. The additional Eq flattens out the response. This pushed the front soundstage forward a foot or two and resulted in really great clarity and detail. Starting with the Music preset I still needed to pull 3khz down 5 db though.
Ok, I ended up buying the Mobius. It will get here middle of the month but I wanted to investigate these alternative pads you are talking about in the discussion.


Being from Italy, I find these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.it/Cuscinetti-Ang.../dp/B00ZY8PGJI
Since in the last picture on display there are precise measurements for size, I wanted to ask you if they look like the right ones to you. I suppose they are this model: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled


Also, since you display your EQ but it's only a single pictures, would it be possible to have the complete filters list? Reading around I remember somebody stating that Waves NX already compensated for the Mobius response, but I don't remember if it was you or somebody else (in the past couple of days I've read to much on the subject).


Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.


PS
As a long time user of Beyerdynamic DT-880 (250 ohm), I'm wondering whether I can expect the Mobius to sound better for "regular" stereo listening, with WavesNX deactivated.

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
Video Pioneer PDP-LX6090 (calibrated)
Audio Yamaha RX-A3010, Dynaudio Audience 72 (FL, FR), Dynaudio Audience 42C (C), Dynaudio 42W (SR, SL), Chario Piccolo Star Satellite (Presence Height), SVS PB-1000 (SW)
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post #124 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I suppose they are this model. Also, since you display your EQ but it's only a single pictures, would it be possible to have the complete filters list? Reading around I remember somebody stating that Waves NX already compensated for the Mobius response. As a long time user of Beyerdynamic DT-880 (250 ohm), I'm wondering whether I can expect the Mobius to sound better for "regular" stereo listening, with WavesNX deactivated.
Yes, those look like the correct pads.

For actually mounting them, you can start with just popping off the stock pads and wrapping ghe brainwavz over the cups, I dont know that the baffle rings are necessary, I still use them, but they should sound good without them.

For the EQ, with firmware updates they adjusted the Monius' tuning, so I would simply try the various presets before worrying about extra eq. Default and Music first, flat and warm next, and they others if you like.

While yes the Mobius and Waves NX are tuned internally, the response that you hear can be very different for a couple of reasons.
a.)individual HRTF https://ibb.co/KrBYFQx
b.)the room ambience slider increases treble energy through simulated reflections, so rolling off the treble in the presence/air region(5khz+) or notching treble(2-5khz) can offer a less bright but still spacious sound.
c.)changing the pads alter the frequency response as well as the impulse response.

Ive been listening to them without 3d lately simply because I spent a year or two only listening with 3d on(been doing the same with my desktop system sans OOYH) and really really enjoy the sound with the angled pads and the default preset. Detailed clean and they image fantastically. So yes I think you may find the regular stereo image much to your liking. Though I exclusively use ldac bluetooth, and that will sound different than usb or analog due to the electrical connection to another component and the subsequent signal integrity of that connection.
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post #125 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 11:42 AM
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Yes, those look like the correct pads.
Sooo... your advice, to sum it up, is not to bother with EQ but changing the earpads with the one you suggest?
Is the modification "destructive"? Meaning, if I wanted to go back to the stock earpads would I be able to do so?


Also, about EQing, do I get it right that you suggest toning down high frequencies in order to be able to raise the room ambience setting without altering the sound too much (as doing that increases high frequencies)?


Edit: forgot one question: as far as I understand, with two channels content Mobius/Waves NX don't upmix to 7.1. They simply keep the sound "anchored" to the two front virtual speakers. Correct?

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
Video Pioneer PDP-LX6090 (calibrated)
Audio Yamaha RX-A3010, Dynaudio Audience 72 (FL, FR), Dynaudio Audience 42C (C), Dynaudio 42W (SR, SL), Chario Piccolo Star Satellite (Presence Height), SVS PB-1000 (SW)
Sources HTPC, Xbox One S, Squeezebox

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post #126 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Sooo... your advice, to sum it up, is not to bother with EQ but changing the earpads with the one you suggest? Is the modification "destructive"? Meaning, if I wanted to go back to the stock earpads would I be able to do so? Also, about EQing, do I get it right that you suggest toning down high frequencies in order to be able to raise the room ambience setting without altering the sound too much (as doing that increases high frequencies)?
Ya for starters just try the pads and the builtin presets. The pads are a must for me. Then once you're nice and acclimated with that sound you can try some eq. some small adjustments to various areas of treble made in real time while listening to music(like with eqapo or uapp you can turn a preset on/off with a single button and compare the sound). A small -2db q3 bell around 2-4khz, a -2db high shelf at 5-8khz, things like that.

Mod is 100% non destructive. The only caution with Audeze is slide the headphones off your head instead of pulling the cups outward as some of the plastic joint pieces can break.

Thinking of the baffles, what could still be useful is a felt ring with a cutout for the opening to the transducer to reduce some reflections off the cup housing/baffle. Ive found damping the actual output from the headphones to be of great affect for this virtualization since the rendering is simulating reflections

You cant really do anything for the reflections off your head, which is the reason why headphones sound brighter anyway and have to compensate the signal. But using deeper pads does reduce that initial reflections intensity and allow the loudspeaker emulation to function better, as does more angled pads by changing the vectors. On my desktop system I use the Dekoni LCD Velour pads. Giant angled tight knit velour with thick memory foam. You couldnt ask for a better pad for this type of audio.

I wrote this to someone else and I think accidently included it in a post to you then editted it out, but its fairly relevant for this discussion so:
I have a pair of he400s and took the rear grill out and replaced it with very open cell foam, lined the inside of cups with sorbothane, added melamine fazors to the rear magentics, and changed the pads. There were very intense reflections from the back of the driver off of the stock metal rear grill, the waveform coming out between the magnets, and the resonant plastic cups. Those mods drastically improved the treble performance and turn a really sharp bright sound into something very clean, still slightly metallic due to the nature of the driver, but much much more listenable with binaural rendering.

And yes, precisely, the more reverberant the sound the brighter the sound. Im able to push some of the brightest distorted **** metal through the more reverberant room presets in OOYH through a pair of extremely revealing transducers due to flattening out the headphones frequency response, compensating for HRTF, improving waveform, damping, and hrtf reflections(pads felt rings etc.), and removing all external noise from low noise low distortion circuitry(non feedback current signal), resulting in shockingly externalized and natural sounding loudspeaker emulation.

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Edit: forgot one question: as far as I understand, with two channels content Mobius/Waves NX don't upmix to 7.1. They simply keep the sound "anchored" to the two front virtual speakers. Correct?
Correct, no upmixing or decoding is done by the Mobius, only thr virtualization.
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post #127 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 02:02 PM
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Sorry to take advantage of your knowledge but I've got another question: I would personally prefer real leather earpads. As such I see Brainwavz offers these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...leather-angled
Is there any reason to prefer the one you suggested, in PU Leather? https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled
I suppose isolation should be similar, it's just the "feeling" that I'd prefer in real leather.

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
Video Pioneer PDP-LX6090 (calibrated)
Audio Yamaha RX-A3010, Dynaudio Audience 72 (FL, FR), Dynaudio Audience 42C (C), Dynaudio 42W (SR, SL), Chario Piccolo Star Satellite (Presence Height), SVS PB-1000 (SW)
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post #128 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Sorry to take advantage of your knowledge but I've got another question: I would personally prefer real leather earpads. As such I see Brainwavz offers these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...leather-angled
Is there any reason to prefer the one you suggested, in PU Leather? https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled
I suppose isolation should be similar, it's just the "feeling" that I'd prefer in real leather.
lol ask anything its no bother.

So I found real leather to be much more reflective and sound much brighter, so I preferred the protein leather. I tried the brainwavz real leather and the mrspeakers alpha pads
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post #129 of 129 Old 02-03-2020, 05:54 PM
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Good, I ordered the pleather ones (they are cheaper too...). I'll report back once the Mobius arrives and I'll have had the chance to try it out.

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
Video Pioneer PDP-LX6090 (calibrated)
Audio Yamaha RX-A3010, Dynaudio Audience 72 (FL, FR), Dynaudio Audience 42C (C), Dynaudio 42W (SR, SL), Chario Piccolo Star Satellite (Presence Height), SVS PB-1000 (SW)
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