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post #121 of 163 Old 02-01-2020, 01:29 PM
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First of all, thank you bdht for all the answers and help.


Ok, so you say head tracking helps. I'll try disabling my webcam and see if there's a difference. I'll report back on that.



Presets in the trial are: Multimedia, Voice, Movie Theatre. At first glance they seemed to have more to do with tonality/EQ than room size. But I might be mistaken.

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post #122 of 163 Old 02-01-2020, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
First of all, thank you bdht for all the answers and help. Ok, so you say head tracking helps. I'll try disabling my webcam and see if there's a difference. I'll report back on that. Presets in the trial are: Multimedia, Voice, Movie Theatre. At first glance they seemed to have more to do with tonality/EQ than room size. But I might be mistaken.
You're welcome :] the head tracking is pretty cool actually. Ive got a dspeaker headspeaker as well and it really helps. I wish OOYH had the ability to add one or maybe at some point jak will add functionality to the Impulcifier.

Ya im pretty sure that waves preset is a first reflection setting. With binaural rendering, the more reflections the "brighter" the sound so it can help to eq the treble down in the 2-6khz range especially for beyerdynamics if you want a more spacious and externalized sound.
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post #123 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If you're interested, heres the pad mod(Brainwavz Angled Pleather) and the EQ for the Mobius. The pic with the mic is the stock pads. I needed to make a baffle because the stock pads are attached to a mounting ring and the aftermarket pads sounded horrible without it. The pad change pushed the drivers further out and angled them, improving the waveform and reduced treble ringing/resonance, improving imaging and soundstage. The additional Eq flattens out the response. This pushed the front soundstage forward a foot or two and resulted in really great clarity and detail. Starting with the Music preset I still needed to pull 3khz down 5 db though.
Ok, I ended up buying the Mobius. It will get here middle of the month but I wanted to investigate these alternative pads you are talking about in the discussion.


Being from Italy, I find these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.it/Cuscinetti-Ang.../dp/B00ZY8PGJI
Since in the last picture on display there are precise measurements for size, I wanted to ask you if they look like the right ones to you. I suppose they are this model: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled


Also, since you display your EQ but it's only a single pictures, would it be possible to have the complete filters list? Reading around I remember somebody stating that Waves NX already compensated for the Mobius response, but I don't remember if it was you or somebody else (in the past couple of days I've read to much on the subject).


Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.


PS
As a long time user of Beyerdynamic DT-880 (250 ohm), I'm wondering whether I can expect the Mobius to sound better for "regular" stereo listening, with WavesNX deactivated.

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post #124 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I suppose they are this model. Also, since you display your EQ but it's only a single pictures, would it be possible to have the complete filters list? Reading around I remember somebody stating that Waves NX already compensated for the Mobius response. As a long time user of Beyerdynamic DT-880 (250 ohm), I'm wondering whether I can expect the Mobius to sound better for "regular" stereo listening, with WavesNX deactivated.
Yes, those look like the correct pads.

For actually mounting them, you can start with just popping off the stock pads and wrapping ghe brainwavz over the cups, I dont know that the baffle rings are necessary, I still use them, but they should sound good without them.

For the EQ, with firmware updates they adjusted the Monius' tuning, so I would simply try the various presets before worrying about extra eq. Default and Music first, flat and warm next, and they others if you like.

While yes the Mobius and Waves NX are tuned internally, the response that you hear can be very different for a couple of reasons.
a.)individual HRTF https://ibb.co/KrBYFQx
b.)the room ambience slider increases treble energy through simulated reflections, so rolling off the treble in the presence/air region(5khz+) or notching treble(2-5khz) can offer a less bright but still spacious sound.
c.)changing the pads alter the frequency response as well as the impulse response.

Ive been listening to them without 3d lately simply because I spent a year or two only listening with 3d on(been doing the same with my desktop system sans OOYH) and really really enjoy the sound with the angled pads and the default preset. Detailed clean and they image fantastically. So yes I think you may find the regular stereo image much to your liking. Though I exclusively use ldac bluetooth, and that will sound different than usb or analog due to the electrical connection to another component and the subsequent signal integrity of that connection.
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post #125 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 10:42 AM
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Yes, those look like the correct pads.
Sooo... your advice, to sum it up, is not to bother with EQ but changing the earpads with the one you suggest?
Is the modification "destructive"? Meaning, if I wanted to go back to the stock earpads would I be able to do so?


Also, about EQing, do I get it right that you suggest toning down high frequencies in order to be able to raise the room ambience setting without altering the sound too much (as doing that increases high frequencies)?


Edit: forgot one question: as far as I understand, with two channels content Mobius/Waves NX don't upmix to 7.1. They simply keep the sound "anchored" to the two front virtual speakers. Correct?

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post #126 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Sooo... your advice, to sum it up, is not to bother with EQ but changing the earpads with the one you suggest? Is the modification "destructive"? Meaning, if I wanted to go back to the stock earpads would I be able to do so? Also, about EQing, do I get it right that you suggest toning down high frequencies in order to be able to raise the room ambience setting without altering the sound too much (as doing that increases high frequencies)?
Ya for starters just try the pads and the builtin presets. The pads are a must for me. Then once you're nice and acclimated with that sound you can try some eq. some small adjustments to various areas of treble made in real time while listening to music(like with eqapo or uapp you can turn a preset on/off with a single button and compare the sound). A small -2db q3 bell around 2-4khz, a -2db high shelf at 5-8khz, things like that.

Mod is 100% non destructive. The only caution with Audeze is slide the headphones off your head instead of pulling the cups outward as some of the plastic joint pieces can break.

Thinking of the baffles, what could still be useful is a felt ring with a cutout for the opening to the transducer to reduce some reflections off the cup housing/baffle. Ive found damping the actual output from the headphones to be of great affect for this virtualization since the rendering is simulating reflections

You cant really do anything for the reflections off your head, which is the reason why headphones sound brighter anyway and have to compensate the signal. But using deeper pads does reduce that initial reflections intensity and allow the loudspeaker emulation to function better, as does more angled pads by changing the vectors. On my desktop system I use the Dekoni LCD Velour pads. Giant angled tight knit velour with thick memory foam. You couldnt ask for a better pad for this type of audio.

I wrote this to someone else and I think accidently included it in a post to you then editted it out, but its fairly relevant for this discussion so:
I have a pair of he400s and took the rear grill out and replaced it with very open cell foam, lined the inside of cups with sorbothane, added melamine fazors to the rear magentics, and changed the pads. There were very intense reflections from the back of the driver off of the stock metal rear grill, the waveform coming out between the magnets, and the resonant plastic cups. Those mods drastically improved the treble performance and turn a really sharp bright sound into something very clean, still slightly metallic due to the nature of the driver, but much much more listenable with binaural rendering.

And yes, precisely, the more reverberant the sound the brighter the sound. Im able to push some of the brightest distorted **** metal through the more reverberant room presets in OOYH through a pair of extremely revealing transducers due to flattening out the headphones frequency response, compensating for HRTF, improving waveform, damping, and hrtf reflections(pads felt rings etc.), and removing all external noise from low noise low distortion circuitry(non feedback current signal), resulting in shockingly externalized and natural sounding loudspeaker emulation.

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Edit: forgot one question: as far as I understand, with two channels content Mobius/Waves NX don't upmix to 7.1. They simply keep the sound "anchored" to the two front virtual speakers. Correct?
Correct, no upmixing or decoding is done by the Mobius, only thr virtualization.
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post #127 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 01:02 PM
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Sorry to take advantage of your knowledge but I've got another question: I would personally prefer real leather earpads. As such I see Brainwavz offers these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...leather-angled
Is there any reason to prefer the one you suggested, in PU Leather? https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled
I suppose isolation should be similar, it's just the "feeling" that I'd prefer in real leather.

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post #128 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to take advantage of your knowledge but I've got another question: I would personally prefer real leather earpads. As such I see Brainwavz offers these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...leather-angled
Is there any reason to prefer the one you suggested, in PU Leather? https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/colle...one-pad-angled
I suppose isolation should be similar, it's just the "feeling" that I'd prefer in real leather.
lol ask anything its no bother.

So I found real leather to be much more reflective and sound much brighter, so I preferred the protein leather. I tried the brainwavz real leather and the mrspeakers alpha pads
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post #129 of 163 Old 02-03-2020, 04:54 PM
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Good, I ordered the pleather ones (they are cheaper too...). I'll report back once the Mobius arrives and I'll have had the chance to try it out.

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post #130 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
If you're interested, heres the pad mod(Brainwavz Angled Pleather) and the EQ for the Mobius. The pic with the mic is the stock pads. I needed to make a baffle because the stock pads are attached to a mounting ring and the aftermarket pads sounded horrible without it. The pad change pushed the drivers further out and angled them, improving the waveform and reduced treble ringing/resonance, improving imaging and soundstage. The additional Eq flattens out the response. This pushed the front soundstage forward a foot or two and resulted in really great clarity and detail. Starting with the Music preset I still needed to pull 3khz down 5 db though.
Hi! As mentioned I ended up buying these: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I mounted them on my Orbit Cloud S (I had troubles sourcing a Mobius and I wasn't interested in the bluetooth capabilities) but then I came back to re-read what you had to say about these ear pads and I noticed this "mounting ring" you created. Is it needed? What materials did you use to create it? Pictures show the size but you don't say what the different layers are made of.


Also, considering I've updated the firmware to the latest version, is EQ still needed in your opinion? I would settle on the Music setting, do you concur?

Aaaaand... I re-read our past exchanges and you answered already most of these questions. You seemed less certain now about the need for the mounting ring. In any case, what materials would you suggest? I see you used different, layered ones.

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post #131 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I mounted them on my Orbit Cloud S (I had troubles sourcing a Mobius and I wasn't interested in the bluetooth capabilities) but then I came back to re-read what you had to say about these ear pads and I noticed this "mounting ring" you created. Is it needed? What materials did you use to create it? Pictures show the size but you don't say what the different layers are made of.
So I used the mounting ring to help create a better seal, at the time I was using a pair of the pads that had the edges trimmed off and weren't sealing well, I had found without it when I pushed the headphones slightly towards my head they sealed up and sounded much better. I since replaced the pads with new ones, but I never tried comparing the sound with/without the baffle rings. You may not need it though. There could still be a benefit as it gives the pads a flat surface to sit against.

I used cd jewel cases(the base plastic part that the cd snaps onto), but any similar fairly thin rigid material will work, and just cut it with scissors. And then simple 1mm craft felt.

How do you find the sound with the stock pads vs the brainwavz pads? If you push the headphones slightly towards your head while listening to music do you notice a change in the sound?



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Also, considering I've updated the firmware to the latest version, is EQ still needed in your opinion? I would settle on the Music setting, do you concur?
After the firmware updates I don't use any additionally EQ. I use Default with 3d off and Music with 3d on. It's a little tricky to suggest an EQ for 3d on because I could be adjusting for my own personal HRTF. So you can try playing with an EQ. Make small adjustments of 2-3db between 2-6khz, or roll off over 8khz by a similar amount, and then increase the volume to your listening level and see if you like the sound more. I can walk you through EQ better if I know what you're using, a PC with EQ APO or a phone with UAPP. See this picture to see how are HRTF differs.
https://ibb.co/DL8VsSK
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post #132 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 03:03 PM
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How do you find the sound with the stock pads vs the brainwavz pads? If you push the headphones slightly towards your head while listening to music do you notice a change in the sound?
No, I do not. I interpret what you ask as pushing slightly toward my head, so as to create a better seal. And I don't notice any difference.
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After the firmware updates I don't use any additionally EQ. I use Default with 3d off and Music with 3d on. It's a little tricky to suggest an EQ for 3d on because I could be adjusting for my own personal HRTF. So you can try playing with an EQ. Make small adjustments of 2-3db between 2-6khz, or roll off over 8khz by a similar amount, and then increase the volume to your listening level and see if you like the sound more. I can walk you through EQ better if I know what you're using, a PC with EQ APO or a phone with UAPP. See this picture to see how are HRTF differs.
https://ibb.co/DL8VsSK
I'm familiar with that picture
I use Equalizer APO with Peace GUI. Listening now with the Mobius presets from AutoEQ. This is something that I would probably not use with movie content but with music I'm liking it (I'm referring to the AutoEQ preset).

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post #133 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Its probably making a good seal then so I wouldnt worry about the baffles.

Hmm apparently 2 weeks is my limit for remembering posting a picture ;]

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Listening now with the Mobius presets from AutoEQ. This is something that I would probably not use with movie content but with music I'm liking it (I'm referring to the AutoEQ preset).
Really... huh.

"Fc 3074 Hz Gain -7.3 dB Q 0.99"
This one is really darkening the sound lowering treble by alot.

"Filter 3: ON PK Fc 4716 Hz Gain 8.7 dB Q 0.80"
This one is really brightening high treble/prescence, Id think that sounds awful xD

"Filter 4: ON PK Fc 8378 Hz Gain -6.3 dB Q 3.54"
This is a little narrower but its still a much larger cut thats not needed

"Filter 5: ON PK Fc 19280 Hz Gain -12.1 dB Q 0.47"
This is past our ability to hear I dont know why this would be made.

All the adjustments over 10khz are entirely unreliable.


I would try much simpler filters if you want to darken up the music preset a bit. Honestly im suprised for music that Default is too bright. What do you listen to?

peaking 3khz -2db q3
peaking 4.5khz -3db q3
high shelf 8khz -3db fixed

Jaakkos done alot of great work with Impulcifer and autoeq with actual in ear mic measurments. But just flattening out the FR of some random measurement isnt a great idea.
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post #134 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, and don't take that as you shouldn't use it if you like the sound, if you like something, use it! It's just a strange eq, that looks to be more based on inaccurate measurements than sound preference.
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post #135 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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This is what I was using with the Mobius, Music preset with 3D on. Very subtle softening to help get some extra volume with 3d on.
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post #136 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 04:22 PM
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Its probably making a good seal then so I wouldnt worry about the baffles.
Ok.
Quote:
Hmm apparently 2 weeks is my limit for remembering posting a picture ;]
It's me, it's not you. I've been obsessing over these for the past three weeks.
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Really... huh.

"Fc 3074 Hz Gain -7.3 dB Q 0.99"
This one is really darkening the sound lowering treble by alot.

"Filter 3: ON PK Fc 4716 Hz Gain 8.7 dB Q 0.80"
This one is really brightening high treble/prescence, Id think that sounds awful xD

"Filter 4: ON PK Fc 8378 Hz Gain -6.3 dB Q 3.54"
This is a little narrower but its still a much larger cut thats not needed

"Filter 5: ON PK Fc 19280 Hz Gain -12.1 dB Q 0.47"
This is past our ability to hear I dont know why this would be made.

All the adjustments over 10khz are entirely unreliable.


I would try much simpler filters if you want to darken up the music preset a bit. Honestly im suprised for music that Default is too bright. What do you listen to?

peaking 3khz -2db q3
peaking 4.5khz -3db q3
high shelf 8khz -3db fixed

Jaakkos done alot of great work with Impulcifer and autoeq with actual in ear mic measurments. But just flattening out the FR of some random measurement isnt a great idea.
Don't read too much in my "I'm liking it". These, for my standards, are good sounding cans. So a different "color" can be liked even if it's not the "right" way to listen to. I just wanted to try those settings but yeah, they darken music probably too much. It's still good sounding but too... altered?
As far as Jakkos work, he clearly states that rtings measurements are not preferable but, unfortunately, so far they're the best he's got. As far as I understand one gets the "top" sound only through oratory1990 measurements and settings.
For regular listening I'll stick to Music, my own head measurements, 17 Room Ambience and no extra EQ. I'll get used to that sound and I'll see later if I want to change it further.
Now I'll go and watch some TV shows with them, let's see how they perform.

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post #137 of 163 Old 02-18-2020, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't read too much in my "I'm liking it". These, for my standards, are good sounding cans. So a different "color" can be liked even if it's not the "right" way to listen to. I just wanted to try those settings but yeah, they darken music probably too much. It's still good sounding but too... altered?
As far as Jakkos work, he clearly states that rtings measurements are not preferable but, unfortunately, so far they're the best he's got. As far as I understand one gets the "top" sound only through oratory1990 measurements and settings.
Ah k. I mean ya Ive got iems that play flat and sound fantastic, the audioquest headphones are downright dark and sound great. Its rarely worked for me eqing off of any measurements even innerfidelity, and tylls rig was superb. The pad change changes the response as well. But making adjustments while listening to music works well Simple -3db q3 filters every 500hz starting at 2k, turn em on and off. My musics distorted sht so it makes it real easy to fine tune heh

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For regular listening I'll stick to Music, my own head measurements, 17 Room Ambience and no extra EQ. I'll get used to that sound and I'll see later if I want to change it further.
Now I'll go and watch some TV shows with them, let's see how they perform.
I think I had room ambience at 30, but I like the spaciousness as Im used to OOYH at this point.
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post #138 of 163 Old 02-20-2020, 08:45 AM
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This is what I was using with the Mobius, Music preset with 3D on. Very subtle softening to help get some extra volume with 3d on.




This is what I'm doing in Peace to re-create your settings. Is it correct? I don't find "Analog bell" but I suppose it's a regular peakfilter.
Also, what's the point of the low-shelf at 91Hz if the gain value is at 0?

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Audio Yamaha RX-A3010, Dynaudio Audience 72 (FL, FR), Dynaudio Audience 42C (C), Dynaudio 42W (SR, SL), Chario Piccolo Star Satellite (Presence Height), SVS PB-1000 (SW)
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post #139 of 163 Old 02-20-2020, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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This is what I'm doing in Peace to re-create your settings. Is it correct? I don't find "Analog bell" but I suppose it's a regular peakfilter. Also, what's the point of the low-shelf at 91Hz if the gain value is at 0?
Correct, and yes peak is bell. The low shelf is just off, give it some bass if youd like, can even bump that up yo 150 to warm it up. But you may want to preamp down as much bass as you add, i.e. preamp -5db if you boost bass by 5db to avoid clipping.
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post #140 of 163 Old 02-24-2020, 11:16 AM
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I've been using Impulcifer for a couple of months and have gotten truly stunning results. I only use it currently for music, and have totally abandoned listening to my audiophile level speakers as it's so much better, and that's with Senn HD600 headphones. The illusion of listening to the best speakers I've ever heard 8 ft in front of me is almost unbelievable. I still often take the headphones off to confirm the speakers aren't playing. If you take the time to get the measurements and optional tweaks right the tonal balance, resolution and imaging is really exceptional, and without any noticeable reverb or other odd artifacts the other virtual surround solutions I've tried can have. If you can handle the relatively modest cost of the equipment, can listen through a device that handles HRIR files, and can deal with the learning curve of the command line options, the end result can be absolutely next level good. I went through multiple measurement sessions and tried many of the option tweaks before getting the right combination, but when I did it's been a true game changer.
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post #141 of 163 Old 02-24-2020, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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@abalone thanks for sharing! Impulcifer is high at the top of my to try list but got distracted with projectors and hdr. Plus at this point with OOYH I do all the headphone and hrtf compensation manually and it just sounds incredible. I use multiple rooms as well depending on what Im listening to, regularly the Acoustic Zen Crescendo, Magico Q3, Genelec(the baseline), AZ Adagio+(less externalized but provides a bigger headphone soundstage), Volti Vittora(for crunchy guitars), PBN Sammys(for bass lines), JMLab Nova Utopia Be(probably the most spacious), and Marten Coltrane Momento(v2 the treated room, great for lofi black metal).

I highly recommend adding a tactile transducer(bass shaker) system, really gives the experience that last nudge into externalization, when most of your body is feeling the bass rather than just your head. I recently moved my system and havent set the bass shakers up yet and definitely noticed closer perceived imaging.
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post #142 of 163 Old 02-24-2020, 02:04 PM
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@abalone thanks for sharing! Impulcifer is high at the top of my to try list but got distracted with projectors and hdr. Plus at this point with OOYH I do all the headphone and hrtf compensation manually and it just sounds incredible. I use multiple rooms as well depending on what Im listening to, regularly the Acoustic Zen Crescendo, Magico Q3, Genelec(the baseline), AZ Adagio+(less externalized but provides a bigger headphone soundstage), Volti Vittora(for crunchy guitars), PBN Sammys(for bass lines), JMLab Nova Utopia Be(probably the most spacious), and Marten Coltrane Momento(v2 the treated room, great for lofi black metal).

I highly recommend adding a tactile transducer(bass shaker) system, really gives the experience that last nudge into externalization, when most of your body is feeling the bass rather than just your head. I recently moved my system and havent set the bass shakers up yet and definitely noticed closer perceived imaging.
I plan on trying OOYH again. I did a trial once but somehow missed the part about using specific headphone eq with it and for me the over brightness was really bad so I quickly abandoned it. Since I got Impulcifer customized so well my motivation to keep seeking solutions has dropped way off. I keep listening and thinking I just don't know how this could be better, which for me is really saying something. Your bass shaker suggestion could be one upgrade worth doing. Thanks.
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post #143 of 163 Old 02-24-2020, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep listening and thinking I just don't know how this could be better, which for me is really saying something. Your bass shaker suggestion could be one upgrade worth doing. Thanks.
As explained in this thread I got some incredible performance gains through using certain equipment, specifically non feedback amplifiers to avoid feedback distortion, fast impulse response transducers free of ringing/resonance(planars, estats, etc.), and removing any and all external noise through low interwinding capacitance isolation transformers and quadrapole cabling, and a well conditioned and isolated digital chain. I know it sounds like alot of hooplah and phooey but alot of it can be done very affordably and it was the equivalent boost of realism and fidelity of going from dolby headphone to OOYH/Impulcifer.

That being said the shaker system would be a higher priority due to the immediate effect and the circuits and conditioning were very much peices of a whole.

I have a secondary setup that was fairly inexpensive consisting of used equipment:
Audio-GD combo: $150
Topaz 91092-12: $50
VH Audio Flavor 2: $50
Breeze DU-U8: $50 (optical to the audiogd)
Uptone USB Regen: $50 (with a $10 Jameco LPS).

And with this I used a modded he400i(custom open cell foam rear grill, sorbothane lined cups, melamine fuzzors, dekoni lcd velour pads). This setup rendered OOYHs Genelecs beautifully, perfectly clean detailed externalized and natural, excellent imaging and staging. But my main setup benefitted the more reverberant rooms and sounds more lifelike its almost scary sometimes.
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post #144 of 163 Old 02-24-2020, 03:04 PM
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I have a secondary setup that was fairly inexpensive consisting of used equipment:
Audio-GD combo: $150
Topaz 91092-12: $50
VH Audio Flavor 2: $50
Breeze DU-U8: $50 (optical to the audiogd)
Uptone USB Regen: $50 (with a $10 Jameco LPS).

And with this I used a modded he400i(custom open cell foam rear grill, sorbothane lined cups, melamine fuzzors, dekoni lcd velour pads). This setup rendered OOYHs Genelecs beautifully, perfectly clean detailed externalized and natural, excellent imaging and staging. But my main setup benefitted the more reverberant rooms and sounds more lifelike its almost scary sometimes.
Sounds like a very good setup. I'll look into those components. Thanks again.
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post #145 of 163 Old 03-14-2020, 08:53 PM
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Well my surround story started in 2009. To reaf more than you care and to avoid repetition, visit lddb.com and look up user name "tripletopper" where I was basically mocked for trying to find out how to maximize my Turtle Beach X41.

Apparently, Laser Discs can only do Pro Logic unless you add something called am AC3RF demodulator. luckily, the only one with a Toslink output instead of direct speaker hookups is also the cheapest model on eBay, a Sony SDP-E800.

Now the only problem is as I get newer, more movies have DTS 7.1 and fewer have Dolby 7.1 (a couple have Atmos, but Atmos is usually sacrificed on 3D copies.). Now if I'm not playing on a game machine the X41s will only work if you have Dolby encoding in your movies. LPCM is 2 tracks via Toslink, and DTS is silence, unless converted into Dolby, but even though all game machine can convert DTS into Dolby (except Nintendo, who only use LPCM) in double conversions going DTS discrete-> Dolby discrete -> Dolby headphones, something gets lost in the translation.

And HDMI input devices that can get a 2 track headphone surround mix out of Atmos and DTS:X and LPCM 7.1?

I also heard Sony's surround headphone. The surround virtualizer is very nebulous in direction. (Unless I set it wrong. If so, may I have the right settings. "Game mode" optimizes directionalism, perhaps?)

Just wondering what are good Dolby/DTS/LPCM headphone outputs?

By the way, you can stream out the 2 track sound and have it broadcast in headphone surround in Twitch accurately with 2 speakers.

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post #146 of 163 Old 03-15-2020, 02:14 AM
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HDMI is required for all format support - optical and coax only support 2.0 PCM audio, and 5.1 lossy DTS or Dolby digital. HDMI supports up to 9.1 for all lossless for HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 supports up to 24 channels (or more, the limit is a little ridiculous).

The Sony headphones were the HW 700DS which has 3 HDMI 1.4 inputs and did 9.1 virtualization.

There is only one alternative right now but it is expensive at around $3500 - the Smyth Realiser A16. It does support Atmos virtualization, and the new model supports up to 24 channel Atmos (so beyond 9.1.6). It supports up to 2 separate headphones with individual head tracking so if you turn your head, the audio turns around as well to help localization and room ambience. (It relies on impulse responses to replicate any measured room or can use a theoretical perfect room)
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post #147 of 163 Old 03-15-2020, 08:14 AM
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Yes I understand the theory of headphone surround. If you're not in a perfect gone theater you localize it to around your ears and the rest of the room be damned.

Exactly the reason I bought it in the first place. In 2008 dad wanted surround, and a "communal system" cost 10k in labor.

My friend is a famous video game player, appearing in e basic cable competition series in the 00s. So I asked his opinion.

He finally saw the value of the headphones, because a sponsor of the second one was Triton. He said you could spot direction accurately by listening, and isn't THAT the reason you want surround over stereo?

It was the difference between virtual life and virtual death.

So I understand for LPCM, the best thing is to hope Nintendo has good default headphone sound. (Which lots of people say is their saving grace for using neither Dolby nor DTS). Unfortunately, for like 3 titles, Apocaltpto, Alien, and one other film, deriving a headphone mix is tough.

So the next best thing, for everything except Nintendo and literally 3 movie titles, my X41 gives silence for DTS. How do I get Dolby and DTS movies into ANY directionally accurate headphone 2 track mix?

Best Buy recommends to look at their equipment. I don't need any community speakers except for stereo for casual listening. I only use headphones for hardcore listening. Based on the fact I don't need external communal surround speakers, what is all that I need in terms of traditional stereo equipment for me to get directionally accurate headphones?

By the way, I got a movie that souunded good in the Turtle Beach X41, the original The Fugitive Blu Ray, the one where the disc was mastered off the DVD release, and the newer restored version, which has DTS audio. Probably the 2 best scenes to test audio are the back to back scenes of the bus fight and the train crash.

2 of the exact same title in 2 different audio formats. The perfect test subject. Compare apples to apples, not to IBM compatibles.

And bring Apocalypto for an LPCM headphone test. (When the only audio language is pre-Columbian Mayan, you have the room to use LPCM 5.1). By the way, I seen it only once, so may I have a test chapter recommendation for a surround headphone test in LPCM?
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post #148 of 163 Old 03-15-2020, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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@tripletopper

Any of these work?

https://us.creative.com/p/super-x-fi...e-sxfi-theater

https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6

The Creative SXFI TV still isn't available though.

Btw I'm Zenvota on head-fi, we've spoken before ;]
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post #149 of 163 Old 03-15-2020, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Also the dspeaker headspeaker if you can find one. Decodes lossy dolby and dts 5.1 via optical, has a headtracker, and lets you use any headphones.
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post #150 of 163 Old 03-17-2020, 08:47 AM
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Hello. Thanks for the suggestions. I was going to Best buy to see if anyone has a decoder. I don't have to buy external speakers for the decoder, just use Headphone surround.

If your selections are in stock at Best Buy, I'll try them. If not, where can I find them near Cleveland, Ohio, preferably the next county Southwest, Medina County Ohio.

By the way, if, on your devices, the only inputs are USB and Toslink, and my 4K movie player can not do USB audio, and Toslink can only hold LPCM 2.0, how do I watch Apocalypto in LPCM surround?

At least Nintendo does have special 2 track headphone surround mixes.

I M not married to a particular brand, but found Sony's surround virtualizer very nebulous directionally.
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