Official SONOS owners thread - Page 63 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1861 of 1954 Old 12-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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It really looks like it's mostly about features and not improved audio quality.

You'd probably be better off spending that $400 on a nice DAC to connect to your CONNECT (unless you are already using the digital output, in which case, save your cash).
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post #1862 of 1954 Old 12-25-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post
Is Sonos Port sound quality better than Sonos Connect sound quality?

I've spent a ton of time searching the Internet for an answer to this question, but no luck. I'm looking for a reason to upgrade my Connect.

Searching this thread revealed no answers.

BTW, you can't buy this device on Amazon. I went there looking for reviews. Not sure why this device is unavailable on Amazon while other Sonos devices are available.
Publishing specs is not Sonos's thing. I'm sure it's a step forward, but I'm just using the connect with my receiver, I wouldn't see a benefit. As far as a better dac comment, you could use an external dac but to hear a difference between the connect dac and a high end dac would require exquisite speakers and a matching room.

I would upgrade if the would allow sync with my system when I have the subs on. I have to run my 13 speaker setup direct to get it to play in sync. If I do any Audyssey processing, it gets slightly out of sync with the Sonos speakers.
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post #1863 of 1954 Old 01-03-2020, 10:10 PM
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Anyone accessing their music collection via PLEX via SONOS?

I've gotten tired of the SONOS library size limitation. And the lack of features like being able to see the most recently added albums.

And while I have PLEX running successfully and it can serve up music to a normal Plex client, and I can see Plex listed in my Sonos app, none of my own library shows up in the Plex section of the Sonos app....it is just their canned generic promoted offerings.

I'm looking for clues about what I am doing wrong....so far the only solution is to enable remote access....which I don't really want or need or trust.

Last edited by nathan_h; 01-03-2020 at 10:19 PM.
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post #1864 of 1954 Old 01-04-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Anyone accessing their music collection via PLEX via SONOS?

I've gotten tired of the SONOS library size limitation. And the lack of features like being able to see the most recently added albums.

And while I have PLEX running successfully and it can serve up music to a normal Plex client, and I can see Plex listed in my Sonos app, none of my own library shows up in the Plex section of the Sonos app....it is just their canned generic promoted offerings.

I'm looking for clues about what I am doing wrong....so far the only solution is to enable remote access....which I don't really want or need or trust.
I have it running on Windows in addition to Plex and LMS for good measure. I don't really access the collection much that way. I use google music, I'm feeling lucky since most of my collection has been uploaded. It's much better at playing a coherent mix.

When Plex had the plex mix, that worked pretty well, but my 22k songs seems to make Plex gag. All I really want is simple genre random playback.
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post #1865 of 1954 Old 01-08-2020, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
I have it running on Windows in addition to Plex and LMS for good measure. I don't really access the collection much that way. I use google music, I'm feeling lucky since most of my collection has been uploaded. It's much better at playing a coherent mix.

When Plex had the plex mix, that worked pretty well, but my 22k songs seems to make Plex gag. All I really want is simple genre random playback.
How does that work? You upload your whole physical library to google music? That sounds kinda daunting.

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post #1866 of 1954 Old 01-08-2020, 04:10 PM
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How does that work? You upload your whole physical library to google music? That sounds kinda daunting.
Yup, it takes a while and I had a very small pipe up at the time, it clogs up your download speed because your clicks have to wait. I don't know if they still do it, but it's automated and relatively painless if you aren't trying to use the internet at the same time.
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post #1867 of 1954 Old 01-08-2020, 04:41 PM
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How does that work? You upload your whole physical library to google music? That sounds kinda daunting.
Well, since Sonos just sued Google, that might not be the best long-term play anymore.

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post #1868 of 1954 Old 01-13-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post
Is Sonos Port sound quality better than Sonos Connect sound quality?

I've spent a ton of time searching the Internet for an answer to this question, but no luck. I'm looking for a reason to upgrade my Connect.

Searching this thread revealed no answers.

BTW, you can't buy this device on Amazon. I went there looking for reviews. Not sure why this device is unavailable on Amazon while other Sonos devices are available.
Hey, Rob, I just happened to see your question today. Here is what I did to improve the audio of my Sonos Connect:

https://wyred4sound.com/products/upg...nnect-modified

I also have this device: https://wyred4sound.com/products/dig...medy-reclocker

If you re looking for the best quality from streaming services, especially those who stream uncompressed FLAC, the upgrades from Wyred4Sound are highly recommended.
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post #1869 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
Yup, it takes a while and I had a very small pipe up at the time, it clogs up your download speed because your clicks have to wait. I don't know if they still do it, but it's automated and relatively painless if you aren't trying to use the internet at the same time.
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Well, since Sonos just sued Google, that might not be the best long-term play anymore.
Between that Rob, and this new thing sonos is doing with basically bricking the old hardware in this "Recycle Mode" to entice you to upgrade to new boxes, I am not so sure I want to support Sonos anymore. It's unbelievable to me that more people aren't up in arms over the recycle mode thing that renders the unit useless and unable to be sold as used. Now obviously you can sell it and not do the recycle mode update, but the pure fact that it's even an option to prevent used sales is just terrible IMO. Junking up our planet even more with bricked hardware that could have otherwise gone to a wonderful second (or third, fourth etc.) home if you didn't know any better.
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post #1870 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 02:27 PM
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... and this new thing sonos is doing with basically bricking the old hardware in this "Recycle Mode" to entice you to upgrade to new boxes, I am not so sure I want to support Sonos anymore. It's unbelievable to me that more people aren't up in arms over the recycle mode thing that renders the unit useless and unable to be sold as used. Now obviously you can sell it and not do the recycle mode update, but the pure fact that it's even an option to prevent used sales is just terrible IMO. Junking up our planet even more with bricked hardware that could have otherwise gone to a wonderful second (or third, fourth etc.) home if you didn't know any better.
I ended up choosing the recycle option with the Connect. And I used the discount to buy another Play 5. I would have made $20 - $50 more selling the Connect on eBay but skipping that hassle was worth it to me. People don't have to use the program, so although I see why they started it (pretty smart actually), I can't fault it. It's all capitalism.

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post #1871 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 03:30 PM
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My biggest problem with the "upgrade" program is that they kept selling this supposedly outdated hardware (specifically the Connect) until a few weeks ago. There's nothing special about the Port that they couldn't have released it at the same time as the Amp or even sooner. It contains absolutely no new technology, they just kept selling Connects and refusing to comment for years about any kind of upgrade. As someone who bought a Connect in late 2018 I'm a bit miffed and it's making me rethink my investment in the Sonos ecosystem as a whole. My hardware is "outdated" even though the new version offers no actual improvement in performance and costs 20% more? That's BS. The Connect was already their most overpriced product given that the whole transport and decoding system (basically everything except the audio input) is present in every Sonos product all the way down to the $99 IKEA model.
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post #1872 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 04:07 PM
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Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread and am unfamiliar with the Upgrade Program. I can keep using my Connect, can’t I? It isn’t going to stop working at some time in the future, is it?
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post #1873 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 04:49 PM
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Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread and am unfamiliar with the Upgrade Program. I can keep using my Connect, can’t I? It isn’t going to stop working at some time in the future, is it?
No, or at least Sonos hasn't announced anything yet. Sonos is offering a 30% discount toward purchase of newer products if you agree to let them put your old products into "recycling mode" which permanently disables them via a software flag.

A few people have issues with this; from an environmental standpoint it's a disaster since most e-waste "recyclers" actually resell or recondition as much old tech as they can to keep it out of the waste stream and these are, by definition, working products that have been crippled remotely to prevent reselling but Sonos the company doesn't have to shoulder any of the burden of this "recycling" and they're a company that has touted their environmental concern in the past. People like me, who recently purchased a product that Sonos hadn't updated for a long time, are miffed because Sonos reaped the benefit of a long product cycle but didn't provide any kind of roadmap for future products. Someone who bought a Connect for $350 on September 4, 2019 was buying the most up to date solution that Sonos made at that moment and now they're being told Sonos doesn't want to expend the effort to support it any more.

This is 100% Sonos' fault. They let their hardware platform stagnate for so long because sales were good and they could and now that they're having to eat the costs of supporting older products they're trying to shirk it by creating a giant pile of waste electronics for someone else to deal with.
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post #1874 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 05:26 PM
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No, or at least Sonos hasn't announced anything yet. Sonos is offering a 30% discount toward purchase of newer products if you agree to let them put your old products into "recycling mode" which permanently disables them via a software flag.

A few people have issues with this; from an environmental standpoint it's a disaster since most e-waste "recyclers" actually resell or recondition as much old tech as they can to keep it out of the waste stream and these are, by definition, working products that have been crippled remotely to prevent reselling but Sonos the company doesn't have to shoulder any of the burden of this "recycling" and they're a company that has touted their environmental concern in the past. People like me, who recently purchased a product that Sonos hadn't updated for a long time, are miffed because Sonos reaped the benefit of a long product cycle but didn't provide any kind of roadmap for future products. Someone who bought a Connect for $350 on September 4, 2019 was buying the most up to date solution that Sonos made at that moment and now they're being told Sonos doesn't want to expend the effort to support it any more.

This is 100% Sonos' fault. They let their hardware platform stagnate for so long because sales were good and they could and now that they're having to eat the costs of supporting older products they're trying to shirk it by creating a giant pile of waste electronics for someone else to deal with.
Thank you for your response. I don’t consider the Connect obsolete in any way, especially since I spent $550 on the Wyred4Sound mod. It remains perfectly functional in my setup.
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post #1875 of 1954 Old 01-15-2020, 08:23 PM
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I don’t see how this argument holds much water. It’s the same gripe people go through with Apple. I just purchased a new laptop and they came out with a new model outside my return Window! I get it’s an investment, but you know they’re coming out with a new one eventually.

Equally, if you do keep any tech product long enough it’s essentially out to pasture. Right now a lot of machines running Windows 7 have issues, and it’s not like you can jump to the latest version (10?) without issues. And that’s even assuming the hardware would even support it.

And, Sonos has no obligation to tell people what’s coming out. Did pulling the Play 3 indicate a refresh? No. And how do we know they aren’t recycling the units back into the production cycle of new things?

Plus, as AustinGerry said, nothing is going to stop working.


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post #1876 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 06:15 AM
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Plus, as AustinGerry said, nothing is going to stop working.
Nothing is going to stop working YET. Now that brick mode is built into the FW, there’s nothing stopping Sonos from sending an email to the tune of, “we’re ending support for your product, you have six months to upgrade or else we proactively brick it” in order to drive new sales.

I don’t think your PC analogy is a good fit. PCs keep getting faster/higher capacity and applications programmers take advantage of that with abandon. So you periodically need to refresh your platform if you don’t feel like waiting 5 minutes for Word to open.

I’ve had 7 Zone Players since they came out in the early 2000s. They do exactly what I want, play music. Until the industry switches en masse to some future high-performance codec that my hardware can’t support, it’ll continue to do its job.

I also agree to some extent that brick mode is “bad for the environment”. There is a huge secondary market for used Sonos gear on eBay & elsewhere. I may have been the beneficiary of a bricked unit I purchased on eBay a few weeks ago. I couldn’t get it to go into factory reset mode to add it to my system, so it went back.

One other thing to understand is that when you agree to Recycle Mode, Sonos doesn’t ask for the unit back. That’s the purpose of bricking it. So we do know that Sonos isn’t disposing of these, environmentally-friendly or otherwise. That’s on you.
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post #1877 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by qirex View Post
No, or at least Sonos hasn't announced anything yet. Sonos is offering a 30% discount toward purchase of newer products if you agree to let them put your old products into "recycling mode" which permanently disables them via a software flag.

A few people have issues with this; from an environmental standpoint it's a disaster since most e-waste "recyclers" actually resell or recondition as much old tech as they can to keep it out of the waste stream and these are, by definition, working products that have been crippled remotely to prevent reselling but Sonos the company doesn't have to shoulder any of the burden of this "recycling" and they're a company that has touted their environmental concern in the past. People like me, who recently purchased a product that Sonos hadn't updated for a long time, are miffed because Sonos reaped the benefit of a long product cycle but didn't provide any kind of roadmap for future products. Someone who bought a Connect for $350 on September 4, 2019 was buying the most up to date solution that Sonos made at that moment and now they're being told Sonos doesn't want to expend the effort to support it any more.

This is 100% Sonos' fault. They let their hardware platform stagnate for so long because sales were good and they could and now that they're having to eat the costs of supporting older products they're trying to shirk it by creating a giant pile of waste electronics for someone else to deal with.
Even though this is a sonos thread, it's not a sonos forum so considering my only hardware are Connects, distributed around several areas of my home, what other options would I have to replace my units at this time? Bluesound Node2 I already own, but could never get it setup right...lol. It's a shame sonos is doing all this when they have absolutely ruled this corner of the market for so long, and with the most plug and play solution out there. So I'd like to hear most importantly....what are the other options?

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post #1878 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 02:34 PM
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Even though this is a sonos thread, it's not a sonos forum so considering my only hardware are Connects, distributed around several areas of my home, what other options would I have to replace my units at this time? Bluesound Node2 I already own, but could never get it setup right...lol. It's a shame sonos is doing all this when they have absolutely ruled this corner of the market for so long, and with the most plug and play solution out there. So I'd like to hear most importantly....what are the other options?
Well, I think the Sonos Port has similar capabilities as the Connect for streaming internet and NAS music. It has some other capabilities as well which don’t appeal to me. I tried to get a firm understanding of what the Port does, but the Sonos web site is really terrible. Perhaps someone else could comment on whether the Port is a viable replacement.

Edit: Here is a review: https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/sonos-port
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post #1879 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 02:39 PM
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Well, I think the Sonos Port has similar capabilities as the Connect for streaming internet and NAS music. It has some other capabilities as well which don’t appeal to me. I tried to get a firm understanding of what the Port does, but the Sonos web site is really terrible. Perhaps someone else could comment on whether the Port is a viable replacement.

Edit: Here is a review: https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/sonos-port
It may be a viable replacement, but at this point I've pretty much made up my mind that with how this is all playing out, sonos won't getting another red cent of mine.

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post #1880 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 03:03 PM
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The Port basically is the Connect but more expensive and on the newer hardware platform that supports alexa/google/siri integration, Airplay 2, etc. There are minor differences like a better DAC, better SNR on analog output, coax instead of optical digital out but you could drop one in where you had a Connect installed today and I doubt you'd notice a difference. The banner feature for installers is a 12V trigger for amps.

My gripe with them is how long they waited to release the Port and that they never offered a cheaper alternative. The Connect was originally sold as the ZP90 in 2008 and never updated. When I wanted to integrate Sonos into my main living room system in 2018 the only option I had was to buy decade-old hardware because Sonos was enjoying making big margins on a low-volume product they didn't hadn't spent any development dollars on in 10 years. Then last October 3 weeks after they announce the more expensive replacement they launch this upgrade discount. People who like this system have pretty much always wanted a cheaper basic endpoint but Sonos has decided to keep anything that isn't a speaker in their premium price bracket. The hardware needed for such a product is included in the $99 IKEA speaker but is not available for purchase from Sonos except for $450 with a bunch of extra features. If I can figure out how to do alarms via AirPlay without depending on my phone I'll start looking at alternatives.
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post #1881 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 03:50 PM
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The Port basically is the Connect but more expensive and on the newer hardware platform that supports alexa/google/siri integration, Airplay 2, etc. There are minor differences like a better DAC, better SNR on analog output, coax instead of optical digital out but you could drop one in where you had a Connect installed today and I doubt you'd notice a difference. The banner feature for installers is a 12V trigger for amps.
Not interested in Alexa or Siri integration, and a better DAC and SNR doesn't make a difference if the digital outputs are used. The Connect has a coax output as well. So basically, nothing different that would apply to me. I'll continue using my Connect.
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post #1882 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 04:02 PM
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Not interested in Alexa or Siri integration, and a better DAC and SNR doesn't make a difference if the digital outputs are used. The Connect has a coax output as well. So basically, nothing different that would apply to me. I'll continue using my Connect.
Yeah, the only thing that would force an upgrade would be if they announced they were dropping support for the Connect, which they haven't.
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post #1883 of 1954 Old 01-16-2020, 05:28 PM
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If I had to start over, I would probably go with Heos. They have interesting features I would make use of like stereo down mixes to other zones of surround content on your main system, higher res audio support, bluetooth output (like to headphones that can be used standalone or to help a hard of hearing person hear the music or movie better when in the room with people who don't want to loud), etc.

Or maybe playfi if it works well (don't know).

But I have five Play 1s and two Connects and as long as they are supported, they cover most of my needs, so I'll leave well-enough alone. Heck now that there are $100 Sonos speakers at IKEA, I might even expand to more rooms, for non critical background listening in more spaces.
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post #1884 of 1954 Old 01-17-2020, 08:53 AM
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If I had to start over, I would probably go with Heos. They have interesting features I would make use of like stereo down mixes to other zones of surround content on your main system, higher res audio support, bluetooth output (like to headphones that can be used standalone or to help a hard of hearing person hear the music or movie better when in the room with people who don't want to loud), etc.

Or maybe playfi if it works well (don't know).

But I have five Play 1s and two Connects and as long as they are supported, they cover most of my needs, so I'll leave well-enough alone. Heck now that there are $100 Sonos speakers at IKEA, I might even expand to more rooms, for non critical background listening in more spaces.
Well I got a Heos sound bar with a package that included an x6400. Prior to that I had an x4200 which did not have Heos. I loved using the internet radio feature on the 4200. That stopped when I got the x6400 because it uses the Heos app. It's really badly done and confusing to use. I have a connect plugged into it and use it when I am playing music downstairs in conjunction with the other Sonos speakers on that floor.

The real downside to the connect is that you can't sync it with the other speakers in the house if you are using any room correction since there's always a slight delay when Audyssey is doing processing. So my 4 subs sit there idle if I have other Sonos speakers on. The Sonos sub is crossed over too high in my opinion since it has directionality and it doesn't come close to my SVS subs for playing low.
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post #1885 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 09:15 AM
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Here is the other shoe dropping:
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Sonos has today announced that this coming May it will end ongoing support for a number of its older products. These products include the popular Connect, Connect:Amp and original Play:5 (the full list of affected products is below).
The good news is that these 'legacy' Sonos products will not suddenly stop working. On the (as yet unspecified) date that support ends, they should continue to work exactly as expected. And, in fact, Sonos has confirmed that it will monitor and deal with bugs in the future, should they arise.
However, these products will no longer receive software updates or new features.
What does that mean in practical terms? Well, should a new and exciting music streaming service appear, it almost certainly wouldn't make it to these devices. Ditto any new streaming or wireless transmission standard.
What should probably be more concerning is the possibility that an existing streaming service could one day change something at its end that renders it no longer functional on these older Sonos devices. The sad fact is that you could one day wake up and discover that Spotify, Tidal, or any one of the myriad other services you know and love no longer works.
A further note of caution: newer products can also be caught in no-update limbo if they're part of systems that include any of the older devices on the list of those affected.
If you have, for example, a Sonos Beam in your lounge and an original Play:5 in the bedroom, after the cut-off date in May neither will receive updates or new features while they remain part of the same system in the Sonos app. The solution is to separate them and create two systems, but you'll no longer be able to synchronise audio throughout the house.
The alternative, of course, is to upgrade your older Sonos kit to newer Sonos kit, and the company is making that more cost-effective with its Trade Up scheme, which sees customers given 30 per cent off a new Sonos product when one of these legacy products is recycled.
For some, that won't be enough to assuage the frustration of perfectly good, functioning streamers being rendered obsolete, even if gradually so. But, in fairness to Sonos, every product on this list was launched at least ten years ago and discontinued at least five years ago.
Sonos has an excellent record of thoroughly supporting its products for many years after launch (an astonishing 92 per cent of the products it has ever sold are still in use today) – something that's a real rarity in tech – and it was perhaps inevitable that the day would come that some products would have to be left behind for the rest of the range to move forward.
Of course, some Sonos owners will still be bitterly disappointed. Perhaps the question of whether the whole exercise has been worth it will only be answered when the new features that the old products couldn't handle actually appear. Could one of them be support for hi-res streaming? Here's hoping.
Here's the Sonos community thread as well.

Update with angry rant removed: I did some extra checking and this only impacts Connect and Connect Amp models manufactured prior to 2015. Definitely some people in this thread but they are not EOLing any recently manufactured stuff. The official list of "legacy" products is here.

Last edited by qirex; 01-21-2020 at 09:28 AM.
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post #1886 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 09:31 AM
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From SONOS: "You can continue using legacy products after May, but your system will no longer receive software updates and new features. Over time this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality. "

F&%ck you SONOS. I'm sooooooo angry right now.

"By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next." -- William Shakespeare, Henry the Fourth, Part II
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post #1887 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post
From SONOS: "You can continue using legacy products after May, but your system will no longer receive software updates and new features. Over time this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality. "

F&%ck you SONOS. I'm sooooooo angry right now.
I will continue using my Connect. I don’t care about new functionality, and hope it continues to function for the time being.
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post #1888 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 10:22 AM
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I will continue using my Connect. I don’t care about new functionality, and hope it continues to function for the time being.
Mark my words, they are going to brick those old devices saying that the streaming software can no longer support the streams they offer. I'll bet that bricking happens in 1-2 years.

I'm honestly furiously thinking about how to use zone2/zone3 off my receiver and how to get whole house audio into my home using wired speakers. And then sell off my Sonos gear on Craigslist while the older gear still has some value.

I have EIGHTEEN Sonos devices. I'm FURIOUS.
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post #1889 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post
From SONOS: "You can continue using legacy products after May, but your system will no longer receive software updates and new features. Over time this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality. "

F&%ck you SONOS. I'm sooooooo angry right now.
I have received their email today, and this is exactly how I feel too. My Sonos system consists of four fully functional, fully working sonos devices. I know they cannot disable those all of a sudden, but I am not stupid and can clearly foresee they will voluntarily make my fully stable and functionnal system gradually become less and less usable....until I get fed up and stop using it.

IF THAT EVER HAPPENS, I PROMISE I WILL NEVER, EVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM AGAIN, NO MATTER THE REBATE THEY MIGHT OFFER.

(sorry for the caps, but I am actually shouting from inside...)
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post #1890 of 1954 Old 01-21-2020, 10:54 AM
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I understand everyone's disappointment, but Sonos is hardly the only vendor that is obsoleting older technology. Windows 7 just went out of support. And I have several iOS devices that will no longer receive software updates. And my older TV no longer gets updates. Isn't this expected behavior?
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