Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 189 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5641 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I mistakenly selected the AVR the first time I set it up because I thought it was asking if I wanted to use the speakers connected to AVR since I have the Apple TV 4k connected to AVR via HDMI. I've since changed it to the first "Apple TV" but it may be going back to what I selected the first time. Do you think I need to go back to factory defaults and set it up again?


Audio output should be Apple TV , to those asking highest quality means exactly that you’ll get pcm 7.1 when it’s available.

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post #5642 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I emailed Logitech to get the Apple TV 4K on their database. I gave them the model A1842.
Doesn't seem like Logitech wants to add the latest Apple TV, here is their response to my request:

Upon checking our record, I confirmed as well that the Apple TV 4K is not listed as one of the compatible devices in our database, however, you can try addiung it to your Harmony account by using the following information.

Manufacturer: Apple
Model Number: Apple TV 4th generation.

Please be informed that the swipe and voice command feature of the Apple TV 4K remote can't be mimic by the harmony remote. Please let me know of the outcome.

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post #5643 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Have you seen the DD+ flag come up on your AVR? Which title/titles? That’s good news. Atmos rides along DD+


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You won't see the DD+ flag set, because the box will output everything as decoded PCM with the best setting. See the link that was posted above, it describes it perfectly:

http://developer.dolby.com/News/Dolb..._Apple_TV.aspx

Basically, best setting:

DD+ 5.1 => decoded/mixed => PCM 5.1
DD+ 7.1 => decoded/mixed => PCM 7.1
DD 5.1=> decoded/mixed => PCM 5.1
...

But if you set for regular DD output, you get:

DD+ 5.1 => decoded/mixed => re-encoded as lossy DD 5.1 => DD 5.1
DD 5.1 => decoded/mixed => re-encoded as lossy DD 5.1 => DD 5.1
...

You want to skip that re-encoding step to get all the sound quality the box is capable of. Not sure what they'll do in the future, but hopefully we just get a bitstream option or whatnot.

Based on my experience, I would also avoid ARC if you can. I'm using ATV into my P75 then ARC to my Marantz with the Vizio set to audio ARC bitstream. Even when the ATV was set to best audio, the TV and preamp were reporting DD. So no 7.1 native and no DD+ is getting through ARC and you're getting extra, lossy DD re-encode in the mix.

ATV direct to AVR to TV is really ideal. I'm impatiently waiting for the DV pass through firmware for my Marantz AV7702mkII.
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post #5644 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 12:57 PM
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I have an LG E6 which can pass 5.1 via optical, so that is what I set the ATV 4K to. If I set it to best possible, I occasionally have some lip sync issues.
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post #5645 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 01:58 PM
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Life- One Day, You Laugh At Someone, The Next, You're The One Being Laughed At

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post
My first Apple product was purchased back in 1986, a Macintosh 512Ke. My Dad and me added a SCSI port and 20mb drive on a butcher block table.

My first job out of college was for a SW developer (PC, Apple, C64) and I was assigned to a Mac dev team as a junior coder, QA and technical writer. I've used a Mac for 30+ years, the iPhone since Day One, the iPad since Day One... you get the picture.
That's wonderful. My nephew's first job was coding Apple apps while he was in high school and college, which paid for his education. His first job after he graduated was 6 figures with Kayak, where he was head-hunted by Apple and now works in Cupertino. Among other things, I worked on the the first proof-of-concept HDTV broadcasts that were privately made available to Congress for their approval to replace the antiquated NTSC system with ATSC. These kind of historical recitations given by individuals, even when true, are generally provided to establish the appearance of credibility in the absence of factual information regarding the subject at hand. All completely irrelevant to the issues with ATV4K.

Quote:
Every time Apple targets a vertical, the Clown Car pulls into the station; different verticals, a different set of clowns. We get it. Apple represents change. Apple represents disruption. People want things to stay the same. People want what they've always valued to remain valuable.

In the next few weeks millions of Apple customers will be purchasing Apple TVs. In December, millions of Apple customers will be purchasing HomePods.
No doubt about it. Christmas comes only once a year, and December isn't too far off. What remains unknown is, will they be happy with them, will they keep them, will they brag about how good they are to their friends, or will they complain about them. This isn't Apple's first screw-up (iPhone antenna, among others), but it is quite possibly fixable with updated firmware. Apple would have done well to observe the physician's obligation to patient- First, do no harm. Hopes were high for this product, and still are, that Apple will fix the issues. If that happens, I'll be more than happy to re-place the order I cancelled.

Quote:
By this time next year, tens of millions of people will be streaming ten of millions of songs and movies via Apple Music and iTunes, and the home audio/video market will begin the transformation to something new. It's not for everyone, but it is the future, and it's coming whether you want it or not.
Anything is possible in the future. Hope springs eternal. But a statement of fact, it is not. Here's a statement of fact about the future you can take to the bank (from every prospectus I've ever received): "Past performance is no assurance of future results".

Quote:
The Clown Car? Left at the station along with all those internet posts and comments, the PR pleasers moving on to the next assignment, joining the Mac naysayers, the iPod naysayers, the iPhone naysayers, the iPad naysayers, the Apple Watch naysayers... and everyone else will simply move on.
For the record, I own 2 iPhones, 2 iPads, a Macbook Pro, and an Apple TV... all of which I am quite happy with. I use Linux, Windows, OS X interchangeably and comfortable with all; I am platform agnostic, will use any, and married to none. I ordered an Apple TV 4k the first day it was available because I had faith that Apple would produce a product every bit as good as the ones I already have. This is not about being unable to embrace a new, better way of doing things, or about disruption as you've implied. I'm excited about the future and the changes it brings, and finding new and better ways of doing things has been my life. This is about deterioration of the product by it's delivery system provided by Apple. It's about the produce spoiling in the truck that has the name "Apple" on the side while on the way to the market because the truck's refrigeration isn't working. Just because Apple puts their name on something doesn't automatically make it better, and it doesn't make Apple infallible. Only kool-aid drinkers blindly believe that.
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post #5646 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:32 PM
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I just did a "Reset & Update" and it looks like there is already an update for the Apple TV 4k. Anyone else see this? I'm hoping the reset corrects the problems I've been seeing...
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post #5647 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:41 PM
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I haven’t read all the posts so I’m sorry if this has been discussed, but is the lack of native picture format switching some kind of larger dumbing down trend as Netflix has been doing that for a while on Xbox One S and as far as I know PS4? Netflix on Xbox uses HDR10 on everything as Xbox doesn’t support Dolby Vision. On my LG OLED B6 Netflix switches between modes without a glitch and I can’t figure out how that’s a problem to be solved by messing everything but the very best the whole system can support. I also can’t understand how content providers are playing along with this. Or how it could be a coincidence that Apple is doing it after Netflix has been doing it for a while.

Personally I’m using Netflix on the TV for Dolby Vision, on Xbox for Atmos and on Apple TV 3 for HD with 7.1. This is the ”convenience” the lack of picture format switching causes. Basically I’m just watching less as UHD discs are so expensive and there’s no streaming service and hardware combo that provides decent catalog of UHD with Atmos. How can this be so hard? I have a superb home theater and not much with which to use it properly. Keeps me in better shape I suppose and it’s cheaper having no content worth paying for.
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post #5648 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I just did a "Reset & Update" and it looks like there is already an update for the Apple TV 4k. Anyone else see this? I'm hoping the reset corrects the problems I've been seeing...


I don’t see any updates and I get beta updates

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post #5649 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I just did a "Reset & Update" and it looks like there is already an update for the Apple TV 4k. Anyone else see this? I'm hoping the reset corrects the problems I've been seeing...
What is your TVOS Version number?
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post #5650 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janila View Post
I haven’t read all the posts so I’m sorry if this has been discussed, but is the lack of native picture format switching some kind of larger dumbing down trend as Netflix has been doing that for a while on Xbox One S and as far as I know PS4? Netflix on Xbox uses HDR10 on everything as Xbox doesn’t support Dolby Vision. On my LG OLED B6 Netflix switches between modes without a glitch and I can’t figure out how that’s a problem to be solved by messing everything but the very best the whole system can support. I also can’t understand how content providers are playing along with this. Or how it could be a coincidence that Apple is doing it after Netflix has been doing it for a while.

Personally I’m using Netflix on the TV for Dolby Vision, on Xbox for Atmos and on Apple TV 3 for HD with 7.1. This is the ”convenience” the lack of picture format switching causes. Basically I’m just watching less as UHD discs are so expensive and there’s no streaming service and hardware combo that provides decent catalog of UHD with Atmos. How can this be so hard? I have a superb home theater and not much with which to use it properly. Keeps me in better shape I suppose and it’s cheaper having no content worth paying for.
Get B7 or C7 You will get Dolby Vision with Atmos via ARC from build-in apps
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post #5651 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
I don’t see any updates and I get beta updates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
What is your TVOS Version number?
Maybe if you do a reset, it needs to reinstall the 11.0 firmware?

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post #5652 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 03:50 PM
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Has anyone been able to get 4K HDR working with the Epson 5040 (or another Epson)?

1080p HDR and 4K SDR work for me.
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post #5653 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 04:31 PM
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Is the Apple TV 4K capable of outputting 4:4:4 Chroma in any way? I’m not sure if I don’t see it because of a limitation in my display or if it is a limitation of the Apple TV.


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post #5654 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
audio output question...is "highest quality available" = dolby digital 5.1? meaning it's either DD 5.1 or stereo output? any reason not to just force DD 5.1 instead?


https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069
No, highest quality will get you the DD+ 7.1 on a quite a few movies. It will also make for more a native DD decode/output as PCM.

If you choose, DD 5.1 fixed as output, the ATV gets the audio, mixes in system/Siri sounds, re-encodes on the fly to DD 5.1, and outputs.

So, movies that have native 5.1 soundtracks are being decoded, re-encoded, then output, and decoded again in your AVR. You don't want that (unless you have to use it for some reason).

Best outputs as PCM, so completely skips the extra lossy DD encode and, again, gets you 7.1 audio. You want best.
Thanks. The reason I hate pcm is because the receiver doesn?t know what it?s receiving. If the Apple TV actually had a way to see what was playing (both video and audio output), that would be helpful.
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post #5655 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
Is the Apple TV 4K capable of outputting 4:4:4 Chroma in any way? I’m not sure if I don’t see it because of a limitation in my display or if it is a limitation of the Apple TV.


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Just only in SDR mode.
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post #5656 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kage View Post
Just only in SDR mode.


Thanks - so it can do up to 4:2:2 10-bit in HDR, right?


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post #5657 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
Thanks - so it can do up to 4:2:2 10-bit in HDR, right?
Yes.
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post #5658 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 05:07 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Yes.


So what Chroma and bit depth does the Apple TV use for Dolby Vision? And do any current movie-centric devices output 4:4:4 in HDR - or is it only relevant for games, not film?


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post #5659 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
I should have mentioned that the HDMI does not pass 4K. Using Optical cable to soundbar. Since it has an IR emitter I guess I can hope that it can be taught to work.

Gerry


Does the tv and sound bar support ARC? You’d be able to control via HDMI then.


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post #5660 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cgpublic View Post
My first Apple product was purchased back in 1986, a Macintosh 512Ke. My Dad and me added a SCSI port and 20mb drive on a butcher block table.

My first job out of college was for a SW developer (PC, Apple, C64) and I was assigned to a Mac dev team as a junior coder, QA and technical writer. I've used a Mac for 30+ years, the iPhone since Day One, the iPad since Day One... you get the picture.

Every time Apple targets a vertical, the Clown Car pulls into the station; different verticals, a different set of clowns. We get it. Apple represents change. Apple represents disruption. People want things to stay the same. People want what they've always valued to remain valuable.

In the next few weeks millions of Apple customers will be purchasing Apple TVs. In December, millions of Apple customers will be purchasing HomePods.

By this time next year, tens of millions of people will be streaming ten of millions of songs and movies via Apple Music and iTunes, and the home audio/video market will begin the transformation to something new. It's not for everyone, but it is the future, and it's coming whether you want it or not.

The Clown Car? Left at the station along with all those internet posts and comments, the PR pleasers moving on to the next assignment, joining the Mac naysayers, the iPod naysayers, the iPhone naysayers, the iPad naysayers, the Apple Watch naysayers... and everyone else will simply move on.
I love your post

I'm no coder, but my friends call me an Apple Evangelical; I wear it as a badge of honor. My first computer was purchased for me in 1983, it was an Apple II, I was 7. Have never owned any other computer in my life. That Apple II lasted until my sophomore year of high school. Forgot the name of that machine; wasn't the best, but it got me to my senior year of college when I got the first iMac, and so on. Have only had about 6-7 computers I think, as Macs just last. The MacBook Pro Retina I'm typing on now is from 2012; have no plans to upgrade anytime soon.

My point is this, Apple has a loyal following that is difficult for some of us to articulate if you are the uninitiated or not fully committed. For those of us who are, we are a very happy bunch. I'm at a point now where I do not debate with people about Apple as I had to most of my life. I'm beyond trying to win converts.

You either get it, or you don't, and yet our band will play on.

We trust this company for many reasons, but to sum it up, we don't just believe, we know that Apple actually gives a damn about making quality products. Sure, they frustrate us sometimes by moving our cheese in favor of innovation, simplicity, or for God knows why, but if you pay attention long enough, clarity will be revealed. No disc drive? Yeah, it took a minute, but look at it now, who uses DVDs in computers anymore? Well, 5 years ago, most people did and that's when I purchased this computer. Again, no plans to upgrade for at least 3 more years. Sure it was expensive as hell, but if you understand Smart Money, you divide the cost by years of use, thus this Mac is much cheaper than a similar PC which is usually trash after 3-4 years.

For Apple TV, you are correct my friend, by the end of 1st quarter 2018, the new entertainment paradigm will be much clearer than it is now and Apple will have created the best balanced products.

Readers: You don't have to agree with this, but it will happen, and you will be forced to accept it even if you don't join it.

Again cgpublic, enjoyed reading your post.
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post #5661 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Thanks. The reason I hate pcm is because the receiver doesn?t know what it?s receiving. If the Apple TV actually had a way to see what was playing (both video and audio output), that would be helpful.
Some AVRs will provide sensible information based on the input. Last I checked EAC-3 is always 7.1 so if you have two channels it's stereo, if you have six (5.1) channels it's AC-3 and if you have eight (7.1) it's EAC-3. If your complaint is that your AVR can/will do post-processing of the audio based on the original bitstream format and fails in the face of anonymous LPCM then yes, that's been a problem since the Apple TV 4th Gen was introduced.

In any case what HT204069 is saying is that BQA will will produce a digital stream that is the most faithful representation of the input given your audio system and the other settings (5.1 or 2.0) are to override that choice. I gather that various AVR defects make this a sensible decision on Apple's part.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #5662 of 23449 Old 09-26-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post
For Apple TV, you are correct my friend, by the end of 1st quarter 2018, the new entertainment paradigm will be much clearer than it is now and Apple will have created the best balanced products.
I don't know, these are among the first implementations of HDR. I think the UHD branding which certifies 4K HDR TVs is only about a year old.

I don't think there are AVRs which come from the factory with support for DV yet, just firmware updates for models released this year.

And we still don't have any 4K HDR content from the major TV networks (including cable networks) and it may still be years if ever for that to happen.

I'd like to jump in but it still seems like things will be more settled a year from now than the first quarter of 2018.

Even then it may not be settled.

I'd like to see more content than the streaming services and iTunes 4K HDR movie streams.
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post #5663 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 04:12 AM
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Trying to work out a compromise on how to minimise changing Video Format in SETTINGS.

Obviously need to change between 4K HDR and 4K SDR, which is still inconvenient but I can just about live with until or if Apple automates this process.


However if you are watching 1080 SDR or 1080 HDR should we again keep changing Video Format in SETTINGS? This is confusing.

What are people/owners doing please?
Thank you


HERE ARE SOME CHOICES FOR REFERENCE;
1. 4K HDR, or
2. 1080p HDR, or
3. 4K SDR, or
4. 1080p SDR.

Last edited by Soundizer17; 09-27-2017 at 04:18 AM.
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post #5664 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
Trying to work out a compromise on how to minimise changing Video Format in SETTINGS.

Obviously need to change between 4K HDR and 4K SDR, which is still inconvenient but I can just about live with until or if Apple automates this process.


However if you are watching 1080 SDR or 1080 HDR should we again keep changing Video Format in SETTINGS? This is confusing.

What are people/owners doing please?
Thank you


HERE ARE SOME CHOICES FOR REFERENCE;
1. 4K HDR, or
2. 1080p HDR, or
3. 4K SDR, or
4. 1080p SDR.


For any 1080p content, I’ve been using 4K SDR (24Hz or 60Hz) 4:4:4. I figure my TV is going to upconvert to 4K anyway, and I’m of the mindset that I’d rather the Apple TV do this instead of the TV. That way the TV is getting a straight 4K signal, and there’s less it has to do.


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post #5665 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 05:38 AM
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There's A Big Cooling Fan In the Apple TV 4K!

Check out the link for a look inside of the new Apple TV 4K:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/26...ardown-ifixit/
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post #5666 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 05:46 AM
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Is anyone else being required to reactivate HBO Go on all their Apple devices? ATV2, ATV3, iPhone, iPad, all, not a month after doing it already.
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post #5667 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Anyone know why the Apple TV 4k is asking about which speakers I want to use every time I start it? I'm connected to a Denon AVR and that may be the reason it's having issues? Is everyone else connected to TV directly or any others connected to AVR? I see that it goes back to speakers when I turn it off as well.


I had the same issue. I have a Harmony remote and a Denon receiver. I first saw it a few days ago on the old Apple TV after the last software update and then again when I set up the 4K Apple TV. I assumed that Apple changed something with whatever key combinations they use to turn it on/off (there is no off button on the Apple remote). And whatever they changed is no longer compatible with the Harmony remote. I don’t know for sure that that is the cause, but my solution works.

Just change your Harmony settings so that it leaves the Apple TV on and doesn’t try to turn it on or off. I also changed the Apple TV settings so that it doesn’t go to sleep but I doubt that’s necessary.


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post #5668 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 06:22 AM
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Have my 4k on order :

Does the hdmi cec work for both on and off? Meaning if someone airplay a photo does it turn on the hdmi chain? If so they does disconnecting airplay turn.off?


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post #5669 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 07:39 AM
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Regarding CEC, I tried using this as I want to be able to use the Apple remote and have it turn my TV/preamp on/off.

It does work, but the Apple TV seems to just turn things on for no reason. I shut things down, set the remote down, walk away, and then come back to find the TV on.

Anyone else see that? Any suggestions? I'm using a Vizio P75 and a Marantz AV7702mkII.
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post #5670 of 23449 Old 09-27-2017, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
Regarding CEC, I tried using this as I want to be able to use the Apple remote and have it turn my TV/preamp on/off.

It does work, but the Apple TV seems to just turn things on for no reason. I shut things down, set the remote down, walk away, and then come back to find the TV on.

Anyone else see that? Any suggestions? I'm using a Vizio P75 and a Marantz AV7702mkII.


Do you have a cat playing with your remote.


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