Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 374 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11191 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 08:41 AM
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I'm considering an Apple TV 4k, due to Apple's 4K/HDR catalog relative to other services. However, I have an HDR10-only TV (Sony X900E) and I know that most content will be getting converted from DV. I'm curious if any other HDR10-only owners have any feedback on the quality of converted movies, especially any direct comparisons to a native HDR10 version.

I know that the first version of the firmware used a constant set of metadata for HDR10 conversions, regardless of the movie. I'm not sure if that is still the case with the newest firmware (including the beta). In addition, the only comparison I saw to a native HDR10 film, from HDTVTest, used an LG OLED. Knowing that different TVs handle the metadata differently, such as Sony sets leaning toward preserving overall scene brightness, I'd like to know how compromised the experience would be on something closer to what I have.

With the device being $150 or more, definitely want to get the appropriate research done before dropping the money on the ATV. I have a UHD disc player, and movies look amazing on it, but it would still be nice to have the convenience and to grab some titles that don't have disc releases yet.
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post #11192 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotera View Post
I'm considering an Apple TV 4k, due to Apple's 4K/HDR catalog relative to other services. However, I have an HDR10-only TV (Sony X900E) and I know that most content will be getting converted from DV. I'm curious if any other HDR10-only owners have any feedback on the quality of converted movies, especially any direct comparisons to a native HDR10 version.



I know that the first version of the firmware used a constant set of metadata for HDR10 conversions, regardless of the movie. I'm not sure if that is still the case with the newest firmware (including the beta). In addition, the only comparison I saw to a native HDR10 film, from HDTVTest, used an LG OLED. Knowing that different TVs handle the metadata differently, such as Sony sets leaning toward preserving overall scene brightness, I'd like to know how compromised the experience would be on something closer to what I have.



With the device being $150 or more, definitely want to get the appropriate research done before dropping the money on the ATV. I have a UHD disc player, and movies look amazing on it, but it would still be nice to have the convenience and to grab some titles that don't have disc releases yet.


Everything I've watched on my 940E has looked amazing on the ATV 4K in HDR10 or DV.

If you buy one, you can make your own determination and if you don't like it, return the ATV for a refund, right?
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post #11193 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ROMIL View Post
If you buy one, you can make your own determination and if you don't like it, return the ATV for a refund, right?
Agree. Best Buy has open box ATV 4Ks (probably from those who did not like it) and Apple is pretty generous with their return policy as well.

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post #11194 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:21 AM
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Has anyone watched Transformers The Last Knight on their Apple TV 4K and experienced fluctuating brightness levels? It looked great on my LG B7 OLED until nearly the halfway mark where they meet up at the castle with Anthony Hopkin's character. Then the luminance levels were fluctuating so badly that I had to stop the movie it was so distracting. I don't know if it's Dolby Vision encoding, or the ATV, the source, the TV or what. And I don't have the 4K UHD Blu-ray to compare. But then, I don't have a DV player at the moment either. I have not seen this with other content. And I know that OLEDs have ABL function to prevent the set from pumping out more light and energy than it can handle, but this was even happening in dark scenes inside the castle. I have never had this experience watching content before, and it was fine during the first half of the movie.

Update: HDTV Test describes the issue in this recent video.

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post #11195 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:27 AM
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@ToonMasterTim get us some time stamps so that others can more easily find and test what you’re seeing.
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post #11196 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonmckee View Post
Here's a great thread for redemption and porting strategies:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...tion-only.html



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Thank you.
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post #11197 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Please check the first post in the thread.


Thank! I should have read that. Needed to do a search before I clogged up thread.
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post #11198 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:34 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post
Has anyone watched Transformers The Last Knight on their Apple TV 4K and experienced fluctuating brightness levels? It looked great on my LG B7 OLED until nearly the halfway mark where they meet up at the castle with Anthony Hopkin's character. Then the luminance levels were fluctuating so badly that I had to stop the movie it was so distracting. I don't know if it's Dolby Vision encoding, or the ATV, the source, the TV or what. And I don't have the 4K UHD Blu-ray to compare. But then, I don't have a DV player at the moment either. I have not seen this with other content. And I know that OLEDs have ABL function to prevent the set from pumping out more light and energy than it can handle, but this was even happening in dark scenes inside the castle. I have never had this experience watching content before, and it was fine during the first half of the movie.


This will surely be the infamous Dolby vision bug that the verge recently reported on. Dolby have passed a fix to LG and they are currently testing it for release in a future firmware upgrade.


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post #11199 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 09:36 AM
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Apple TV 4K Highjacking my TV and Receiver

I am new to this thread and did read the last 5 pages and did a search but didn't find any assistance for my problem. I am coming to the 4K from a 3rd generation. I am running the 4K through my Yamaha Aventage 2050 receiver to my LG OLED C7P. I have both Home Theater Control Options set to off but the Apple TV will often turn on when I switch inputs on my receiver and highjack the system. I sometimes have to shut everything down to get things to work properly for other inputs such as my Oppo 203, Smart TV apps and Cable TV. I note that if I turn off HDMI control on the receiver and CEC on the TV, when I go to inputs on my TV it shows my Yamaha receiver. If I turn on HDMI control on my receiver but do not turn on CEC on my TV only the Yamaha shows as an input on TV. If I turn on CEC Control on the TV (regardless if HDMI control is on or off on my receiver), then when I display inputs on the TV the Apple TV is shown as linked to my Yamaha receiver. If I turn on HDMI control on my Oppo 203 it also shows as linked to my Yamaha receiver but if I turn off HDMI control on my Oppo then it no longer shows as linked to my Yamaha receiver. It appears that whether I turn off Home Theater Controls on the Apple 4K the Theater Control remains active. I never had this problem with the 3rd generation Apple TV. Is this a software glitch, is my Apple TV defective or can someone suggest something I can do to correct this. I know that HDMI control is finicky and often doesn't work but I would have thought that it could be turned off without problems. I will probably cross-post this to the LG OLED thread as well. Thanks for any help and suggestions.
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post #11200 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Normally I'd say that you disabled Quick Start. I checked a DV rental and input and output were DV.
Just received my ATV today and am beginning setup. I have a Sony Z9D and will be implementing the ATV beta firmware. I'm confused by the DV rental issue. If I setup for Match Dynamic Range, and rent a HDR movie from itunes; will it show as HDR or SDR. If answer is SDR, then should I "turn off" Match Dynamic Range to get the movie in DV or HDR10.

Thanks for any help.

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post #11201 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Just received my ATV today and am beginning setup. I have a Sony Z9D and will be implementing the ATV beta firmware. I'm confused by the DV rental issue. If I setup for Match Dynamic Range, and rent a HDR movie from itunes; will it show as HDR or SDR. If answer is SDR, then should I "turn off" Match Dynamic Range to get the movie in DV or HDR10.

Thanks for any help.
If you install the 11.3 beta software it will work differently, at least in my experience, than it did on the current public firmware (11.2.5 I believe). I assume that you will be running an HDMI from the Apple TV to the Sony. I also believe that the Sony, even with the latest firmware, won't currently play DV content and you will have to wait for a further software update from Apple. This means your TV will play HDR 10. On the beta firmware if you set dynamic range matching on, then it will play DV and HDR content in HDR 10 and will play non-HDR content as SDR content. Based on my experience, which is passing the Apple TV through a receiver that doesn't support DV, I would turn the match on unless you are happy to have Apple convert all of your SDR content to HDR content. I hope that helps.
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post #11202 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by smoore View Post
If you install the 11.3 beta software it will work differently, at least in my experience, than it did on the current public firmware (11.2.5 I believe). I assume that you will be running an HDMI from the Apple TV to the Sony. I also believe that the Sony, even with the latest firmware, won't currently play DV content and you will have to wait for a further software update from Apple. This means your TV will play HDR 10. On the beta firmware if you set dynamic range matching on, then it will play DV and HDR content in HDR 10 and will play non-HDR content as SDR content. Based on my experience, which is passing the Apple TV through a receiver that doesn't support DV, I would turn the match on unless you are happy to have Apple convert all of your SDR content to HDR content. I hope that helps.
My Sony 940e plays DV content from the ATV not sure what you are referring to ?




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post #11203 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:20 AM
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Crushing blacks on 4K HDR setting

I’m watching a Hulu SDR program via my ATV4K set to Match Range and Frame Rate 4K HDR, with the latest public TVOS. In a dark scene, the blacks are posterized, a bit pixelated distractingly which I am (possibly incorrectly) terming crushing black. I changed the setting to 4K SDR and the image was corrected without the black issues. Why does this happen?
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post #11204 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:24 AM
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My Sony 940e plays DV content from the ATV not sure what you are referring to ?




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Then you should just set it to match dynamic range and it will play the content in the original dynamic range for the content. However, if you want to have the Apple TV create HDR for your SDR content, then turn off match dynamic range.
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post #11205 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rlb View Post
I'm confused by the DV rental issue.
Movies can be purchased in lower quality or high quality (if available). Rentals don't have a quality choice -- they're always the best available. But see Quick Start in the first post.
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post #11206 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by smoore View Post
If you install the 11.3 beta software it will work differently, at least in my experience, than it did on the current public firmware (11.2.5 I believe). I assume that you will be running an HDMI from the Apple TV to the Sony. I also believe that the Sony, even with the latest firmware, won't currently play DV content and you will have to wait for a further software update from Apple. This means your TV will play HDR 10. On the beta firmware if you set dynamic range matching on, then it will play DV and HDR content in HDR 10 and will play non-HDR content as SDR content. Based on my experience, which is passing the Apple TV through a receiver that doesn't support DV, I would turn the match on unless you are happy to have Apple convert all of your SDR content to HDR content. I hope that helps.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying, but the 11.3 beta contains the DV profile that the Sony needs to process DV. You either have to connect the ATV directly to your display or go through a receiver that is DV aware (either straight out of the box or via a firmware update).

Regarding Range Matching, if turned on, and assuming your display can receive DV, a DV program will be output with DV, an HDR10 movie as HDR10, and an SDR program as SDR.

If range matching is off, the program will be output in whatever format you set as your preference in the video settings menu. For example, if your display can handle HDR10 but not DV, and you have set your preference as HDR, then the DV will be converted to HDR by the ATV.

Someone please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

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post #11207 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoore View Post
Then you should just set it to match dynamic range and it will play the content in the original dynamic range for the content. However, if you want to have the Apple TV create HDR for your SDR content, then turn off match dynamic range.

Yes that’s what I use thought you were implying dv wasn’t working for Sony tvs must have misread your post.



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post #11208 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotera View Post
I'm considering an Apple TV 4k, due to Apple's 4K/HDR catalog relative to other services. However, I have an HDR10-only TV (Sony X900E) and I know that most content will be getting converted from DV. I'm curious if any other HDR10-only owners have any feedback on the quality of converted movies, especially any direct comparisons to a native HDR10 version.

I know that the first version of the firmware used a constant set of metadata for HDR10 conversions, regardless of the movie. I'm not sure if that is still the case with the newest firmware (including the beta). In addition, the only comparison I saw to a native HDR10 film, from HDTVTest, used an LG OLED. Knowing that different TVs handle the metadata differently, such as Sony sets leaning toward preserving overall scene brightness, I'd like to know how compromised the experience would be on something closer to what I have.

With the device being $150 or more, definitely want to get the appropriate research done before dropping the money on the ATV. I have a UHD disc player, and movies look amazing on it, but it would still be nice to have the convenience and to grab some titles that don't have disc releases yet.
I’ve seen mixed results with Apple’s DV —> HDR10 conversion. Not every movie has an HDR10 layer (apparently), so ATV4K converts the DV layer algorithmically with mixed results. This has gotten better in recent firmware updates, but there can be a big visual difference between the HDR10 Blu-ray and ATV’s conversion.
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post #11209 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Little View Post
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying, but the 11.3 beta contains the DV profile that the Sony needs to process DV. You either have to connect the ATV directly to your display or go through a receiver that is DV aware (either straight out of the box or via a firmware update).

Regarding Range Matching, if turned on, and assuming your display can receive DV, a DV program will be output with DV, an HDR10 movie as HDR10, and an SDR program as SDR.

If range matching is off, the program will be output in whatever format you set as your preference in the video settings menu. For example, if your display can handle HDR10 but not DV, and you have set your preference as HDR, then the DV will be converted to HDR by the ATV.

Someone please correct me if any of this is incorrect.
I was getting Sony TVs mixed up. I know that the AE1 will not display DV from HDMI inputs. I agree with almost everything you said. I have a receiver which will not pass DV but passes HDR 10. On software 11.5.2 if I turned on range matching it would take DV content and convert it to SDR rather than HDR 10. So I had set dynamic range matching to off to get DV to display as HDR 10 but this led to all my SDR content being converted to HDR 10.

With 11.3 Apple TV if you turn on dynamic range matching it will now display DV as HDR 10 (assuming you have the Apple TV set to display HDR 10 rather than DV) and SDR as SDR.
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post #11210 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoore View Post
I was getting Sony TVs mixed up. I know that the AE1 will not display DV from HDMI inputs. I agree with almost everything you said. I have a receiver which will not pass DV but passes HDR 10. On software 11.5.2 if I turned on range matching it would take DV content and convert it to SDR rather than HDR 10. So I had set dynamic range matching to off to get DV to display as HDR 10 but this led to all my SDR content being converted to HDR 10.



With 11.3 Apple TV if you turn on dynamic range matching it will now display DV as HDR 10 (assuming you have the Apple TV set to display HDR 10 rather than DV) and SDR as SDR.

All the Sony Tvs with the x1 extreme chip set work with DV with 11.3. That includes the A1e, 940e, 930e and the Z9d.



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post #11211 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I’ve seen mixed results with Apple’s DV —> HDR10 conversion. Not every movie has an HDR10 layer (apparently)
iTunes DV movies don't have an HDR10 layer.
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post #11212 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smoore View Post
...
With 11.3 Apple TV if you turn on dynamic range matching it will now display DV as HDR 10 (assuming you have the Apple TV set to display HDR 10 rather than DV) and SDR as SDR.
What you're describing in this post is not how the ATV4K works.

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post #11213 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 12:40 PM
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What you're describing in this post is not how the ATV4K works.


There’s way to much misinformation floating around here and on the Sony threads as well as the LG threads. I think everyone needs to step back and reread and reassess their setups.
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post #11214 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
iTunes DV movies don't have an HDR10 layer.
Correct, but iTunes HDR movies do.
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Originally Posted by TheJesusFish View Post
Correct, but iTunes HDR movies do.


Well they wouldn’t be “HDR” (aka HDR10) if they didn’t. Unlike with physical media streaming doesn’t use layers. They are either conversions or separate feeds.
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post #11216 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Just received my ATV today and am beginning setup. I have a Sony Z9D and will be implementing the ATV beta firmware. I'm confused by the DV rental issue. If I setup for Match Dynamic Range, and rent a HDR movie from itunes; will it show as HDR or SDR. If answer is SDR, then should I "turn off" Match Dynamic Range to get the movie in DV or HDR10.

Thanks for any help.
Yes, something has been INTERMITTENTLY strange with iTunes HDR and now DV rentals over the last few months! However, even though HUD may show SDR the TV is triggering HDR or Dolby Vision. See the attached pics. The Baywatch DV video was an iTunes rental (the ATV4K settings are correct for rentals). The Atomic Blond DV video is owned. These pics where taken within minutes of each other and no settings had been changed on the TV or the ATV4K. Note that both pics show the Sony with HDR/DV triggered. Look at the HUD video format and video display size... Pretty strange! Since the Sony sees 4K and HDR/Dolby Vision I'm writing this off as a bug at this point. Heck, the current Xcode is even beta!!!!!

The bottomline is that if you update your TV and the ATV4K to 11.3 you should be good! However, the ATV4K 11.3 beta has numerous bugs so do not be surprised if play/pause does not work sometimes or you have to do a cold restart. It's a beta!

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Last edited by leonmckee; 01-28-2018 at 01:50 PM.
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post #11217 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Just received my ATV today and am beginning setup. I have a Sony Z9D and will be implementing the ATV beta firmware. I'm confused by the DV rental issue. If I setup for Match Dynamic Range, and rent a HDR movie from itunes; will it show as HDR or SDR. If answer is SDR, then should I "turn off" Match Dynamic Range to get the movie in DV or HDR10.



Thanks for any help.

I believe you will first need to select Dolby Vision - 60Hz in the video menu of the ATV. Then put Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate to on. Then check whether the Sony receives Dolby Vision signal (go to picture settings and see if it shows DV). If the answer is yes, you are ready to go.


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post #11218 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 02:02 PM
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Movies are only in HD

None of my iTunes movies are playing in 4K, they are only playing in HD. I have quick start off, video quality is set at best available and Match Range and Frame rate are both on. My download speed is 48mbps. I'm on 11.2.5

I tried restarting and it didn't change anything.

...I checked and Daredevil on netflix does play in 4K Dolby Vision.

Thanks for any help
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post #11219 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eJeremye View Post
None of my iTunes movies are playing in 4K, they are only playing in HD. I have quick start off, video quality is set at best available and Match Range and Frame rate are both on. My download speed is 48mbps. I'm on 11.2.5



I tried restarting and it didn't change anything.



...I checked and Daredevil on netflix does play in 4K Dolby Vision.



Thanks for any help


Didn’t we give you a few solutions earlier this week? Do you actually own the 4K versions? If not they will show “4K DV or 4K HDR” since that is the highest available version, but play in HD. If you want to see your 4K and HDR (DV or HDR10) ITunes movies do the following.

1) set ATV4K to 4K HDR with Match Dynamic Range and Framerate set to ON
2) open the TV App (not ITunes movies)
3) go to Library, you will see a 4K and HDR group that lists all of the mo it’s you own that can be played in 4K HDR (DV OR HDR10).

If you redeemed movies via Movies Anywhere and they were HD codes, then all you will get is HD playback, even though is shows 4K HDR (DV or HDR10) on the play screen.
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post #11220 of 23465 Old 01-28-2018, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eJeremye View Post
None of my iTunes movies are playing in 4K, they are only playing in HD. I have quick start off, video quality is set at best available and Match Range and Frame rate are both on. My download speed is 48mbps. I'm on 11.2.5

I tried restarting and it didn't change anything.

...I checked and Daredevil on netflix does play in 4K Dolby Vision.

Thanks for any help
Dumb question, but are these 4K movies ones you bought in iTunes? Or did they come over from Movies Anywhere?
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