Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 490 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14671 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post
Differences between different oleds are often explained by using different gamma settings. Gamma 2.4 tends to hide some of the near black compression for example.


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Bumped it to 2.4 and it helped a little bit. Still puzzled why some aren't seeing this at all in same scene.

I also downloaded a copy and saw the same thing. Also had a similar effect in this week's "Barry" on the theater background.

May head over to the C8 owner's thread to see if anyone over there had the same experience.
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post #14672 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wheresthemind View Post
Bumped it to 2.4 and it helped a little bit. Still puzzled why some aren't seeing this at all in same scene.

I also downloaded a copy and saw the same thing. Also had a similar effect in this week's "Barry" on the theater background.

May head over to the C8 owner's thread to see if anyone over there had the same experience.
Are you running through an AVR on the way to your TV? If so, make sure your AVR HDMI Video settings are set to pass through. That fixed a host of picture quality issues for me.
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post #14673 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Couch Viking View Post
So whatever happened with iTunes and their "free upgrade to 4K HDR if available"? I had a bunch of movies from various sources (mostly Vudu) that I consolidated in Movies Anywhere a few months back that were showing up as 4K HDR (or DV) in iTunes initially. When I look now most of them are HD again.

Some of them were added/bought as HD to begin with, but I can't help but feel bamboozled by this silent retraction of 4K benefits by Apple.

It's worse to have 4K:ed and lost, than to have never 4K:ed at all
What you were likely seeing was Apple's poor implementation of the 4K listings at the beginning. When Apple rolled this out, they listed the highest quality available, not what you owned. So if you had an HD titles from MA, and Apple had it in 4K, they listed it as 4K in your library (even though it actually only played in HD). Apple has been fixing this so that on the ATV and iOS devices, you will now see what you own, not what the maximum quality available is.
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post #14674 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:18 AM
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Are you running through an AVR on the way to your TV? If so, make sure your AVR HDMI Video settings are set to pass through. That fixed a host of picture quality issues for me.
Yeah. It is running through a Denon X44000H.

I'll take a look at the settings there tonight!
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post #14675 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:19 AM
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What you were likely seeing was Apple's poor implementation of the 4K listings at the beginning. When Apple rolled this out, they listed the highest quality available, not what you owned. So if you had an HD titles from MA, and Apple had it in 4K, they listed it as 4K in your library (even though it actually only played in HD). Apple has been fixing this so that on the ATV and iOS devices, you will now see what you own, not what the maximum quality available is.
I’m confused. If I redeem an iTunes HD code in iTunes and the title is showing there as 4K DV are they not giving us the highest quality anymore?

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post #14676 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:29 AM
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Yeah. It is running through a Denon X44000H.

I'll take a look at the settings there tonight!
Good luck. I have a Denon too so it could well be the culprit. It was in my case.
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post #14677 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:33 AM
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I’m confused. If I redeem an iTunes HD code in iTunes and the title is showing there as 4K DV are they not giving us the highest quality anymore?
As @DOC1963 mentioned before, only DIRECT iTunes redeems of HD codes or DIRECT purchases in iTunes get the free upgrade. Yes, if you redeem an HD code directly in iTunes, you are getting the 4K upgrade.

The problem was how Apple used to show the movie listing on the ATV and iOS. In the beginning, they would show the highest quality available, not what you actually owned. So for example, if you had an HD movie port in from MA and Apple had it in 4K.....Apple would show you owning it in 4K. But when you went to play it back, it would only be playing in HD. Now Apple has fixed that. If you look at a movie that Apple has in 4K, but you only own it in HD....it will show HD now instead of 4K. They are making it a little less confusing to people.

NOTE: It's only on the ATV and iOS devices where this "real" quality listing works. If you look at a title in iTunes on a Mac for example, it will still show the highest quality available.
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post #14678 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:36 AM
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AMC doesnt have an Amazon Channel, I just watch some of their content thru my Prime Sub.

Amazon has Channels, I usually sub to them on their website with my browser, and then you can add any of their content to your Watchlist.

Some examples are Showtime, HBO, CBS. Once you sub to the Amazon channel for say HBO (you get a deal if you sign up for Max and HBO together) and then add Westworld to your Watchlist, it shows up in the ATV app just like any other tv show or movie in the Amazon app.


https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=atv_mya...ode=2858778011
Did not know this. I sub to Showtime from Amazon. Will add Billions to my watchlist & see what happens.

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post #14679 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
As @DOC1963 mentioned before, only DIRECT iTunes redeems of HD codes or DIRECT purchases in iTunes get the free upgrade. Yes, if you redeem an HD code directly in iTunes, you are getting the 4K upgrade.



The problem was how Apple used to show the movie listing on the ATV and iOS. In the beginning, they would show the highest quality available, not what you actually owned. So for example, if you had an HD movie port in from MA and Apple had it in 4K.....Apple would show you owning it in 4K. But when you went to play it back, it would only be playing in HD. Now Apple has fixed that. If you look at a movie that Apple has in 4K, but you only own it in HD....it will show HD now instead of 4K. They are making it a little less confusing to people.



NOTE: It's only on the ATV and iOS devices where this "real" quality listing works. If you look at a title in iTunes on a Mac for example, it will still show the highest quality available.


Ah, ok. Thanks.


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post #14680 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’m confused. If I redeem an iTunes HD code in iTunes and the title is showing there as 4K DV are they not giving us the highest quality anymore?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
As @DOC1963 mentioned before, only DIRECT iTunes redeems of HD codes or DIRECT purchases in iTunes get the free upgrade. Yes, if you redeem an HD code directly in iTunes, you are getting the 4K upgrade.

The problem was how Apple used to show the movie listing on the ATV and iOS. In the beginning, they would show the highest quality available, not what you actually owned. So for example, if you had an HD movie port in from MA and Apple had it in 4K.....Apple would show you owning it in 4K. But when you went to play it back, it would only be playing in HD. Now Apple has fixed that. If you look at a movie that Apple has in 4K, but you only own it in HD....it will show HD now instead of 4K. They are making it a little less confusing to people.

NOTE: It's only on the ATV and iOS devices where this "real" quality listing works. If you look at a title in iTunes on a Mac for example, it will still show the highest quality available.


And, to add to all that, if you redeem a HD digital code via Movies Anywhere ("MA") and connect your iTunes account to MA, the movies redeemed as HD in MA that then appear in your iTunes "purchased" folder will not upgrade for free to 4K. I believe if the code was a UHD code redeemed in MA as 4k, then you'll get the 4K version in iTunes but in that instance it's not a "free upgrade" because the digital code was UHD/4K. If redeeming a code outside of iTunes, you have to be cautious what route you take to redeem it to give youself the best chance of getting it in 4K, if available.

This Google Doc spreadsheet can be very helpful in determining where to redeem a code for UHD/4K. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Htmh4/htmlview
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post #14681 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 08:00 AM
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And, to add to all that, if you redeem a HD digital code via Movies Anywhere ("MA") and connect your iTunes account to MA, the movies redeemed as HD in MA that then appear in your iTunes "purchased" folder will not upgrade for free to 4K. I believe if the code was a UHD code redeemed in MA as 4k, then you'll get the 4K version in iTunes but in that instance it's not a "free upgrade" because the digital code was UHD/4K. If redeeming a code outside of iTunes, you have to be cautious what route you take to redeem it to give youself the best chance of getting it in 4K, if available.
Correct. And studios are doing fewer and fewer direct iTunes HD redeems.....so many new releases you'll have to have an actual UHD code to get UHD in all the services.

HD redeems (and even purchases) in iTunes will port out to MA as 4K IF the redeem/purchase happens while the movie is 4K in iTunes. If you redeem or purchase prior to the movie going 4K in iTunes, you'll get the 4K upgrade in iTunes, but it won't ever port out as 4K to MA.

And still the only way to get an actual listing of 4K/HDR movies you own is to set the ATV to HDR (or DV) and load the TV app and go to Library. I'm really hoping Apple tackles this next as I keep my ATV in 4K SDR and don't get that listing.
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post #14682 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 08:18 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
And, to add to all that, if you redeem a HD digital code via Movies Anywhere ("MA") and connect your iTunes account to MA, the movies redeemed as HD in MA that then appear in your iTunes "purchased" folder will not upgrade for free to 4K. I believe if the code was a UHD code redeemed in MA as 4k, then you'll get the 4K version in iTunes but in that instance it's not a "free upgrade" because the digital code was UHD/4K. If redeeming a code outside of iTunes, you have to be cautious what route you take to redeem it to give youself the best chance of getting it in 4K, if available.



This Google Doc spreadsheet can be very helpful in determining where to redeem a code for UHD/4K. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Htmh4/htmlview


Yes, I knew all of that but I had a Google+ seller tell me this morning that he had an iTunes HD code for sale (Grease) that I knew was now 4K but he told me iTunes wasn’t doing that anymore so I didn’t buy it and then I read the post from @kbmb . Everything’s good now.


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post #14683 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 08:22 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Correct. And studios are doing fewer and fewer direct iTunes HD redeems.....so many new releases you'll have to have an actual UHD code to get UHD in all the services.



HD redeems (and even purchases) in iTunes will port out to MA as 4K IF the redeem/purchase happens while the movie is 4K in iTunes. If you redeem or purchase prior to the movie going 4K in iTunes, you'll get the 4K upgrade in iTunes, but it won't ever port out as 4K to MA.



And still the only way to get an actual listing of 4K/HDR movies you own is to set the ATV to HDR (or DV) and load the TV app and go to Library. I'm really hoping Apple tackles this next as I keep my ATV in 4K SDR and don't get that listing.


You can also go into iTunes/Movies change it to List View and it shows the 4K stuff which you can then paste into Excel. You can do that with Vudu and MA as well.


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post #14684 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
You can also go into iTunes/Movies change it to List View and it shows the 4K stuff which you can then paste into Excel. You can do that with Vudu and MA as well.


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Mine only displays extras HD/SD and ratings next to the name in iTunes MacOS. Are you adding a special column?
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post #14685 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 09:48 AM
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I don't know if this is the right place or on the Infuse forums but since the last update 5.7, I just keep getting the spinning circle when trying to watch a program on Infuse. I've tried rebooting the ATV4K and closing the app but just the spinning circle afterwards? Any thoughts?
I have no issues.

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post #14686 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 09:49 AM
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Have you tried setting to 4k sdr? as opposed to 1080p or DV.With match on.I'm new with this so bare with me.Not sure of the reasons for setting 1080p. Trying to learn the proper settings myself. Allways thought setting to 4ksdr with match and frame rate on gives you everything the way its suppose to. be it DV or whatever.
I found the best setting for the ATV4k is 4k SDR. With auto switching on. No issues here.
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post #14687 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 09:55 AM
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Mine only displays extras HD/SD and ratings next to the name in iTunes MacOS. Are you adding a special column?


No, I’ll have to check later but the only column I remember adding was Purchase Date.


Edit: @u8mycrackers is correct, my mistake. It is just showing the downloadable version (HD) not 4K. I did import it into my spreadsheet and will now populate the field based on the MA data except for those studios that don't support MA.
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post #14688 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 10:51 AM
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Video settings:

4K SDR (so you will get SDR for all SDR content)
Match Dynamic Range = On (so you will always get HDR for all HDR content)
Match Frame Rate = On (though if you have sync issues, you can sometimes solve them by turning this off)
has anyone been able to identify where the sync issues happen? Is it on an app by app basis or content by content basis?

Without framerate match I get judder; with framerate match (on Netflix but NOT Plex) I have audio sync issues.

I'll take judder but I'd rather have neither.

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post #14689 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:04 AM
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has anyone been able to identify where the sync issues happen? Is it on an app by app basis or content by content basis?

Without framerate match I get judder; with framerate match (on Netflix but NOT Plex) I have audio sync issues.

I'll take judder but I'd rather have neither.
I'm not having any sync issues. Nor judder. If you go in to trumotion you can set it to user and adjust dejudder and deblur. I can't recall my exact settings at the moment but it gets rid of the judder without adding the soap opera effect. Of course with the correct framerate it shouldn't have judder.

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Native 24p has judder, hence the dejudder control available on displays that creates extra frames.

It is the reason I ran my LG oleds with some Dejudder enabled, and the reason I use MotionFlow on my A1E. Screw judder.

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I'm not having any sync issues. Nor judder. If you go in to trumotion you can set it to user and adjust dejudder and deblur. I can't recall my exact settings at the moment but it gets rid of the judder without adding the soap opera effect. Of course with the correct framerate it shouldn't have judder.
I have my deblur at 7 and dejudder at 2. Dejudder 3 starts get a little noticeable for SOE but nearly removes it; dejudder 4 completely removes it BUT is full on SOE.

So I live with partial judder or lip sync issues on Netflix. I'm hoping I can get framerate match to have sync'd audio.

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Bumped it to 2.4 and it helped a little bit. Still puzzled why some aren't seeing this at all in same scene.



I also downloaded a copy and saw the same thing. Also had a similar effect in this week's "Barry" on the theater background.



May head over to the C8 owner's thread to see if anyone over there had the same experience.


It does just look like the infamous near black oled processing issues. My take on it is that the flaws are present in the source material but some TVs are better at resolving the flaws than others. My E6 shows it in some material. Mostly broadcast stuff but the occasional Blu Ray also shows it. I had heard that the ‘7 and ‘8 sets has made improvements in this area so I’m interested to see that the problem still seems to exist


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post #14693 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:13 AM
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It does just look like the infamous near black oled processing issues. My take on it is that the flaws are present in the source material but some TVs are better at resolving the flaws than others. My E6 shows it in some material. Mostly broadcast stuff but the occasional Blu Ray also shows it. I had heard that the ‘7 and ‘8 sets has made improvements in this area so I’m interested to see that the problem still seems to exist


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Me too. I am adding a second OLED next month and C8 and A8F are the two choices...

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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I have my deblur at 7 and dejudder at 2. Dejudder 3 starts get a little noticeable for SOE but nearly removes it; dejudder 4 completely removes it BUT is full on SOE.

So I live with partial judder or lip sync issues on Netflix. I'm hoping I can get framerate match to have sync'd audio.
I think my deblur is at 8 or 9 and dejudder at 2.
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post #14695 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:21 AM
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I think my deblur is at 8 or 9 and dejudder at 2.


I haven’t been able to figure out optimal deblur in part because I don’t really understand how to spot the effect. Does anyone have recommendations on a piece of content where I could play with it and see its impact?

Right now I have dejudder at 1 to avoid any SOE and have had deblur al over the place.


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post #14696 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:22 AM
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Me too. I am adding a second OLED next month and C8 and A8F are the two choices...


Haha...don't you already have an A1 and 940E?
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post #14697 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:26 AM
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Haha...don't you already have an A1 and 940E?
I had the A1E and 940E, opted to sell the 940E. It is an awesome set, but I am just an OLED person. So now I want an OLED in my second room, and I am going to grab one late May before Chad B rolls back in. I'll prob get an A8F, I love the A1E.
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post #14698 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresthemind View Post
Bumped it to 2.4 and it helped a little bit. Still puzzled why some aren't seeing this at all in same scene.



I also downloaded a copy and saw the same thing. Also had a similar effect in this week's "Barry" on the theater background.



May head over to the C8 owner's thread to see if anyone over there had the same experience.


It does just look like the infamous near black oled processing issues. My take on it is that the flaws are present in the source material but some TVs are better at resolving the flaws than others. My E6 shows it in some material. Mostly broadcast stuff but the occasional Blu Ray also shows it. I had heard that the ‘7 and ‘8 sets has made improvements in this area so I’m interested to see that the problem still seems to exist.
Interesting you say you've seen it on some Blu-ray, because I haven't.

When it comes to Westworld Season 1 the HD version broadcast and on demand in the UK has some horrid near black macroblocking in some scenes. The UHD Blu-ray is clean as clean can be.

I don't doubt improved processing can "blur away" some of these issues, but the compression artifacts are there in the source.
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post #14699 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:31 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I had the A1E and 940E, opted to sell the 940E. It is an awesome set, but I am just an OLED person. So now I want an OLED in my second room, and I am going to grab one late May before Chad B rolls back in. I'll prob get an A8F, I love the A1E.


Cool. I would love an OLED someday but I could never go back to a set that's less than 75" in size. OLEDs that size are just unaffordable right now.
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Last edited by ROMIL; 04-25-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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post #14700 of 23710 Old 04-25-2018, 11:33 AM
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The HBO Amazon app is superior to Directv and HBO Go with regards to compression uglies and banding, Game of Thrones proves this. I have an OLED and did not see the issues the OP did, and we both used the Amazon channel. The OP also has plenty fast internet (I am on fiber).

My OLED is pro cal'd to a flat 2.4 gamma, and that may have some effect on it. With the 2016 and 2015 LG OLED's, if you gave them a poor source, they looked TERRIBLE near black, much worse than other display types.

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