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post #19711 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
O.K. You are crazy! lol
Haha, I figured someone would follow up with that.

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post #19712 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The comments were regarding E-AC-3 vs. AC-3. Not AC-3 vs LPCM (I assume you mean AC-3 not E-AC-3 (DD+) since the ATV doesn't bitstream E-AC-3).
Note that if you force the output to AC-3 on E-AC-3 content you're:
  • Minimizing/Removing/Down-mixing two of the seven channels (converting 7.1 to 5.1).
  • Cutting the effective bandwidth roughly in half -- assuming the presumption of the post you responded to is correct (E-AC-3 is twice as efficient as AC-3).
Correct, my mistake. I prefer selecting Dolby Digital (AC-3) over Dolby Atmos / Best audio unless Dolby Atmos is offered. I haven't rented or purchased any movies with Dolby Digital 7.1, and since I leave my pre/pro up mix everything to 11.1 I feel I am not losing quality. I do realize that selecting best audio is a better choice - on paper, but so was dts surround and it didn't sound superior.

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post #19713 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 03:49 PM
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When I play 4k HDR content from iTunes with match frame rate on and match dynamic range on, I am only getting 8 bit color according to my AVR's info screen. I get 10 bit color on the main menus if I have the default set to HDR, but do not get 10 bit when I play iTunes movies. Any idea why that would be?

Other devices have no trouble sending 10 or 12 bit color.

Thanks
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post #19714 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
When I play 4k HDR content from iTunes with match frame rate on and match dynamic range on, I am only getting 8 bit color according to my AVR's info screen. I get 10 bit color on the main menus if I have the default set to HDR, but do not get 10 bit when I play iTunes movies. Any idea why that would be?



Other devices have no trouble sending 10 or 12 bit color.



Thanks


I’ll beat Bodosom and say “Read the 1st page of this thread” for your answer
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post #19715 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cydeweyz View Post
I’ll beat Bodosom and say “Read the 1st page of this thread” for your answer
I read it. According to that, i should NOT be getting only 8 bit for my HDR content at 24Hz. So, that's why I'm asking.
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post #19716 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 04:26 PM
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I know the obvious solution for this problem is to turn off HDMI-CEC, but...

I have two devices hooked into my sound bar, the ATV 4K and a new OTA TiVo Bolt. The TiVo recently got HDMI-CEC functionality. The problem I'm having is that even with the TiVo in Standby, it keeps switching the sound bar to its input. I have to switch to the ATV 4K several times before it sticks. From what I've heard with others, the ATV is the only device that allows the input to be pulled. Is there any setting anyone can think of that would prevent this from happening?
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post #19717 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
I read it. According to that, i should NOT be getting only 8 bit for my HDR content at 24Hz. So, that's why I'm asking.
You'll have to be more specific and use an expected trouble-shooting process.

Note that the first post in this thread says Assume the ATV is working correctly. So if you're not seeing what you expect make sure everything is set-up correctly including using appropriate content.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19718 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PJO1966 View Post
I know the obvious solution for this problem is to turn off HDMI-CEC, but...
... From what I've heard with others, the ATV is the only device that allows the input to be pulled.
Is there any setting anyone can think of that would prevent this from happening?
The first point is correct (or you could switch to HDMI "2.1", CEC is purported to be properly defined in that version of the spec).
The second point is incorrect.
The third point should be discussed in the thread for your soundbar since that's the device that's changing.


Another option would be to block the TiVo since that's the offending component.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19719 of 23810 Old 11-30-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
You'll have to be more specific and use an expected trouble-shooting process.

Note that the first post in this thread says Assume the ATV is working correctly. So if you're not seeing what you expect make sure everything is set-up correctly including using appropriate content.
Issue is Apple TV outputs 24Hz HDR content at 4:2:2 12 bit. Some receivers (including mine) downconvert that to 8 bit. So, I have to choose between 60Hz for 24Hz content and whatever stutter that introduces or I can live with 8 bit color and the proper frame rate. Or, I can just use SDR.

Some quick googling reveals that a lot of folks have same issue. It used to be a problem with Panasonic blu ray players, but they added an option to force 10 bit output. It would be nice if Apple did the same.
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post #19720 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
It used to be a problem with Panasonic blu ray players, but they added an option to force 10 bit output. It would be nice if Apple did the same.
That violates the current spec so there's no reason to expect Apple to make that change assuming the HDMI transceiver even supports it.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19721 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I would expect more iTunes deals around Christmas yes. Get your Gift Cards ready!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You might want to check your wish list, and also check out the "UNDER $8 DEALS" in the iTunes menu. Definitely some keepers there. I picked up 2012 for $5 last night.
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post #19722 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
That violates the current spec so there's no reason to expect Apple to make that change assuming the HDMI transceiver even supports it.
Typically what happens with players that allow you to choose 10-bit instead of 12-bit is that the player will switch to 4K24 4:4:4 10-bit output instead of 4:2:2 12-bit. That doesn't violate anything.
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post #19723 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 12:29 PM
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That violates the current spec so there's no reason to expect Apple to make that change assuming the HDMI transceiver even supports it.
That’s not true. 4:4:4 10 bit is in spec.
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post #19724 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Typically what happens with players that allow you to choose 10-bit instead of 12-bit is that the player will switch to 4K24 4:4:4 10-bit output instead of 4:2:2 12-bit. That doesn't violate anything.
Sure.
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That’s not true. 4:4:4 10 bit is in spec.
Yes it is. So is 4:2:2 12b. I think your issue is with the AVR vendor.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19725 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Typically what happens with players that allow you to choose 10-bit instead of 12-bit is that the player will switch to 4K24 4:4:4 10-bit output instead of 4:2:2 12-bit. That doesn't violate anything.
Sure.
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That’s not true. 4:4:4 10 bit is in spec.
Yes it is. So is 4:2:2 12b. I think your issue is with the AVR vendor.
I know you see yourself as Apple’s defender, but I didn’t say anything about what companies I have or don’t have an issue with. I just said my system isn’t working correctly and asked for help. You didn’t give help, only snark. Not surprising given your other posts here.
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post #19726 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I know you see yourself as Apple’s defender, but I didn’t say anything about what companies I have or don’t have an issue with. I just said my system isn’t working correctly and asked for help. You didn’t give help, only snark. Not surprising given your other posts here.
I did offer help. I suggested you approach the company that sold you a broken AVR. I didn't mean issue in the sense you mean but I can see the ambiguity. I should have said: "The issue you see is because your AVR is out of spec".

On other occasions people have suggested I defend Apple, so I expected that response, but of course I don't. I defend being sensible. People have trouble with that when it's their ox being gored. E.g. I was opposed to OPPO spending engineering resources to provide DV P5 for Sony. Some people thought that ignoring Sony's self-made problem was not appropriate for a company that was in the business of selling things and to ignore Sony would be to their detriment. OPPO closed anyway and features they were admired for that were in development suffered and will likely never be completed. But they let you toggle between 12, 10 and 8 bit output.

Apple is a different case. The struggle with simplicity. They apparently don't want a device as tunable as a 203. So in the case of HDMI given multiple output formats they pick one. It's always been that way. Usually the one that results less bandwidth. E.g. in your case given three output choices they pick the one that needs 9G rather than 18G. So back to your broken AVR -- I suspect it's unlikely Apple will add complexity to produce a work-around for out of spec devices. I certainly hope not because they have multiple, real problems to fix.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19727 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 07:13 PM
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Thanks, JWORT! I will have my mom buy something and see what happens.
My mom bought a free National Geographic movie and all of the family members’ movies showed up on her ATV4. Thanks again for the tip!
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post #19728 of 23810 Old 12-01-2018, 09:37 PM
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My mom bought a free National Geographic movie and all of the family members’ movies showed up on her ATV4. Thanks again for the tip!


Where does this Sharing Library show up because I am testing now and can’t get it.
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post #19729 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I did offer help. I suggested you approach the company that sold you a broken AVR. I didn't mean issue in the sense you mean but I can see the ambiguity. I should have said: "The issue you see is because your AVR is out of spec".

On other occasions people have suggested I defend Apple, so I expected that response, but of course I don't. I defend being sensible. People have trouble with that when it's their ox being gored. E.g. I was opposed to OPPO spending engineering resources to provide DV P5 for Sony. Some people thought that ignoring Sony's self-made problem was not appropriate for a company that was in the business of selling things and to ignore Sony would be to their detriment. OPPO closed anyway and features they were admired for that were in development suffered and will likely never be completed. But they let you toggle between 12, 10 and 8 bit output.

Apple is a different case. The struggle with simplicity. They apparently don't want a device as tunable as a 203. So in the case of HDMI given multiple output formats they pick one. It's always been that way. Usually the one that results less bandwidth. E.g. in your case given three output choices they pick the one that needs 9G rather than 18G. So back to your broken AVR -- I suspect it's unlikely Apple will add complexity to produce a work-around for out of spec devices. I certainly hope not because they have multiple, real problems to fix.
I'm hoping to reach a better understanding of the following:

- Is there any setting I can choose on AppleTV that will output 24Hz HDR at 10 bit color? I think the answer is no from what I've read
- Is the Apple TV outputting 24Hz HDR at 12 bit 4:2:2 and my Integra AVR is for some reason treating it as 8 bit (it shows 8 bit as input and output)? Or is the Apple TV for some reason outputting 8 bit for non-DV HDR display? How can I tell?
- Is it possible that the display is actually receiving 12 bit and the Integra is just reporting the information incorrectly? Is there a simple way to tell?

I'm less interested in trying to get either of the companies to change the products. Seems fruitless from my experience.

Thanks.
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post #19730 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
I'm hoping to reach a better understanding of the following:

- Is there any setting I can choose on AppleTV that will output 24Hz HDR at 10 bit color? I think the answer is no from what I've read
- Is the Apple TV outputting 24Hz HDR at 12 bit 4:2:2 and my Integra AVR is for some reason treating it as 8 bit (it shows 8 bit as input and output)? Or is the Apple TV for some reason outputting 8 bit for non-DV HDR display? How can I tell?
- Is it possible that the display is actually receiving 12 bit and the Integra is just reporting the information incorrectly? Is there a simple way to tell?
1) Not that I'm aware of.
2) The output per Vertex on my LG is 4:2:2 12b.
3) My previous 4K AVR wouldn't display 10b (status) so if your display doesn't report bit-depth it could be hard to know with certainty. An HDMI sniffer like the Vertex will identify the signal. You might be able to determine visually using something like the Masciola UHD patterns disc with and without the AVR in the video chain.

I was thinking about this and if you bought an EDID manager (like the Vertex) you could remove 12b (or 4:2:2) from the relevant display capability block. That might force 4:4:4 for all bit depths (what the 203 does in Auto mode) -- but I haven't tried this. Note that if you set the UI to [email protected]/HDR you can't change the chroma from 4:2:2. This could mean that Apple might refuse to send 4K HDR to a sink that doesn't support 4:2:2.

Attached is some EDID data for my display.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19731 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 08:27 AM
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1) Not that I'm aware of.
2) The output per Vertex on my LG is 4:2:2 12b.
3) My previous 4K AVR wouldn't display 10b (status) so if your display doesn't report bit-depth it could be hard to know with certainty. An HDMI sniffer like the Vertex will identify the signal. You might be able to determine visually using something like the Masciola UHD patterns disc with and without the AVR in the video chain.

I was thinking about this and if you bought an EDID manager (like the Vertex) you could remove 12b (or 4:2:2) from the relevant display capability block. That might force 4:4:4 for all bit depths (what the 203 does in Auto mode) -- but I haven't tried this. Note that if you set the UI to [email protected]/HDR you can't change the chroma from 4:2:2. This could mean that Apple might refuse to send 4K HDR to a sink that doesn't support 4:2:2.

Attached is some EDID data for my display.
Interesting experiment I did this morning using the 10bit test pattern on netflix.

- ATV set to 4k HDR 60Hz with match content off. Since my projector is known to show 8 bit color in this mode, I expected to see banding in the 10-bit test. I did indeed see banding. So, as expected. Integra showed 10 bit in and out, but projector converted to 8 bit.

- ATV set to 4k HDR 60Hz with match frame rate on, match range off. Expect ATV to output 24Hz 4:2:2 12 bit. AVR reports 24Hz 4:2:2 8 bit in and out. However, I don't see any banding. 10 bit test looks smooth. This leads me to suspect that the 12 bit color is actually making it to the display and the AVR is simply reporting incorrectly.

If this is correct, it's good news.
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post #19732 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 08:49 AM
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no, but thankfully the list returned. Not sure why it up and left, it as if apple didn't want me to take advantage of the weekend movie deals. Since I'm new to iTunes and Apple products, should I expect more deals as we get closer to Christmas?
Download an app called ‘CheapCharts’ - it will show you all the daily deals in iTunes. If you don’t want to get inundated, you can even tailor it to just notify you about a certain type of media, and/or a specific wish-list you create.
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post #19733 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting experiment I did this morning using the 10bit test pattern on netflix.
Presumably if it looks smoother/different you're getting extra bits passed through the AVR. However although the pattern is labeled 10b it's 8b on the ATV (I haven't checked it on other platforms) so when you force HDR you are getting 4:2:2 12b but not from Netflix.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19734 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 12:31 PM
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Presumably if it looks smoother/different you're getting extra bits passed through the AVR. However although the pattern is labeled 10b it's 8b on the ATV (I haven't checked it on other platforms) so when you force HDR you are getting 4:2:2 12b but not from Netflix.
Hmm -- do you know of a free 10 bit test pattern that can be displayed via ATV? thanks
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post #19735 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 01:23 PM
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Hmm -- do you know of a free 10 bit test pattern that can be displayed via ATV? thanks
Here's one place you might look,

10 bit Gradient Test Patterns
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post #19736 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 04:22 PM
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Where does this Sharing Library show up because I am testing now and can’t get it.
Movies iTunes -> Purchased -> Family Sharing

When you move cursor on Family Sharing you should see icons for all family members on the right side of the screen
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post #19737 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm -- do you know of a free 10 bit test pattern that can be displayed via ATV? thanks
I don't. None of the HDR10 demos I tried report HDR including the Masciola demo files from 2016 linked from his thread. I've "always" used current Masciola files which do work. The demos certainly suggest they should be HDR10 (10b, HEC) but they don't trigger HDR. I use Infuse and Computers apps. Perhaps I'm making an obvious error.

I do wish Masciola would release the Title file and a couple of ramps in mp4.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
UDP-203/ATV4K(6,2)/X3500/LG C8
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post #19738 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejewels View Post

I got a new ATV 4K today as a part of the direct tv deal. Set it up to my Sony 900F and works great so far.
I'm considering an upgrade to 4k this season and I'm focused on the Sony 900F. I have a few questions:

1. Has the performance held up after your initial thoughts?
2. How does the PQ hold up on non-4k content?
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post #19739 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 06:41 PM
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How about some good news?

I just bought a second ATV4K for the bedroom TV. Using my iPhone it took less than 10 minutes to set up, plus it also programmed the ATV remote to control my TV volume without me having to do anything.

Pretty neat I think.
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post #19740 of 23810 Old 12-02-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dturturro View Post
I'm considering an upgrade to 4k this season and I'm focused on the Sony 900F. I have a few questions:



1. Has the performance held up after your initial thoughts?

2. How does the PQ hold up on non-4k content?


You should check at the link below for your 900F questions as this is the ATV4K thread but as an owner of the Sony 930E I can tell you these TV’s and the X1 Extreme processors are known for their high quality of upscaling HD content.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...rice-talk.html



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Mike
Sony XBR-65X930E | ATV4K-64GB & 32GB 5th Gen | Nvidia Shield TV Pro 2017 | Logitech Harmony Elite
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