Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 726 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21751 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
Ok there’s is a common denominator TCL, there’s so many of us that have updated without losing anything. And to Steve the flag waving and alarmist tone is uncalled for plus you’re arguing with the OP that probably knows more about the ATV than anyone here.
No one is forcing anyone to update so to pretend you’re the prophet of all things ATV is absolutely wrong.
the common denominator is actually onkyo receivers. Issue between ATV and onkyo receivers. Only solution is to wait for apple to fix (12.3 beta has the same issue) or onkyo to release a firmware update.
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post #21752 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 04:26 PM
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I am having a HDR issue after the update. I get DV and HDR on the AppleTV but on Netflix I don't get either.

I have two AppleTVs.

#1 AppleTV to Marantz 7703 to LG 65B6 . This one is working fine HDR and DV work.

#2 AppleTV to Yamaha 5100 to JVC 540. Naturally No DV but I lost HDR on the Netflix app. Uninstalling and Reinstalling did nothing.

Arrrg...

1) JVC RS540, Yamaha CX-A5100, Outlaw Audio 7700 & 7140, Wharfedale Jade 7's series speakers, RSL C34e(Atmos)
2) LG OLED65B6, Integra DRC-R1, Emotiva XPA9, Klipsch RP8000F, Klipsch RP404C, Klipsch RP500SA, Klipsch RP140D
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post #21753 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Steve View Post
I totally agree with you! Have you tried what I did: reset the ATV to factory settings, WITHOUT UPDATES, then set it up, DO NOT enable DV, set it to 4K SDR 60, then TURN ON match content, frame rate and dynamic range? Then maybe restart.
Did this a few times and still no Dolby Vision or Dolby Atmos. Straight to TV equals Dolby Vision and Dolby Digital+ via ARC.

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Originally Posted by supaet View Post
the common denominator is actually onkyo receivers. Issue between ATV and onkyo receivers. Only solution is to wait for apple to fix (12.3 beta has the same issue) or onkyo to release a firmware update.
I’m afraid this is our only hope Obi Wan. I posted in the Onkyo 787 thread and yet there hasn’t been any responses.

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post #21754 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by supaet View Post
the common denominator is actually onkyo receivers. Issue between ATV and onkyo receivers. Only solution is to wait for apple to fix (12.3 beta has the same issue) or onkyo to release a firmware update.
And Yamaha.

What make/model display are you using?

Also it isn't just as simple as Onkyo being the issue as I have already state multiple times I get DV through my Onkyo AVRs which are both different models and years, as well as a Marantz from 2015.
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post #21755 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
What did you reboot the receiver, ATV4K, or both?

Everything...
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post #21756 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by supaet View Post
the common denominator is actually onkyo receivers. Issue between ATV and onkyo receivers. Only solution is to wait for apple to fix (12.3 beta has the same issue) or onkyo to release a firmware update.
While there are sometimes issues at various points in the video chain it's normally the case that if you bypass a component and things work the fault is with that component. It doesn't matter if the component is a cable a video switch or an AVR. So if the output from the ATV4K is still acceptable your display there's (probably) nothing for Apple to "fix".

HDMI repeaters seem particularly prone to issues. I assume this is because companies don't typically program the HDMI transceivers to pass all traffic untouched or interpreted even in "pass-through" mode. This means customers are stuck with whatever capabilities and restrictions are in the last firmware update and unlike Apple devices most AVRs don't get multiple updates per year.

That said this "issue" is sounding more and more like configuration errors.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21757 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
While there are sometimes issues at various points in the video chain it's normally the case that if you bypass a component and things work the fault is with that component. It doesn't matter if the component is a cable a video switch or an AVR. So if the output from the ATV4K is still acceptable your display there's (probably) nothing for Apple to "fix".

HDMI repeaters seem particularly prone to issues. I assume this is because companies don't typically program the HDMI transceivers to pass all traffic untouched or interpreted even in "pass-through" mode. This means customers are stuck with whatever capabilities and restrictions are in the last firmware update and unlike Apple devices most AVRs don't get multiple updates per year.

That said this "issue" is sounding more and more like configuration errors.
I acknowledge and appreciate your years of knowledge and experience in the field. The frustrating thing is that my equipment was working flawlessly and in one evening it lost one of the big reasons I upgraded in the first place.

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post #21758 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 07:30 PM
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This a Apple issue and only a Apple issue, since everything else has worked and is still working fine. It is Apples update that broke things.

1) JVC RS540, Yamaha CX-A5100, Outlaw Audio 7700 & 7140, Wharfedale Jade 7's series speakers, RSL C34e(Atmos)
2) LG OLED65B6, Integra DRC-R1, Emotiva XPA9, Klipsch RP8000F, Klipsch RP404C, Klipsch RP500SA, Klipsch RP140D
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post #21759 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
There's no such thing as LLDV. Apple sends classic DoVi Profile 5* which should be supported on any reasonably modern AVR. It worked without issue on my previous (three years old) Denon AVR.

*OPPO sends DoVi P5 (tv led) as plain Ycc rather than encapsulated in RGB. I haven't looked to see if Apple has switched to that format and since my video chain doesn't care they might have and it wouldn't be immediately obvious to me.
Well, Player Led Dolby Vision which was introduced for Sony TVs is often called LLDV.

I performed an LLDV test with my ATV4K and LG B7A just last night on request from a poster in an HDfury thread who wanted to know how to get an ATV4K to output LLDV.

I have an HDfury Vertex that allows selection of custom EDIDs to present to players. One of the custom EDIDs available in the Vertex and other HDfury devices is named:

Sony A1 LLDV V2

I configured my Vertex to use that Sony specific EDID even though I have an LG OLED because I know that my LG supports LLDV based on previously configuring my Oppo 203 to Player led Dolby Vision.

When I had my device chain configured as ATV4K > Denon x4200w > HDfury Vertex > LG, the ATV4K would only send normal TV led Dolby Vision in 4K24 RGB 8bit 297MHz HDCP 2.2 format. So it appears my Denon won't pass LLDV or perhaps I needed to restart some or all devices.

After removing my AVR from the device chain: ATV4K > HDfury Vertex > LG B7A I was successful getting LLDV sent to my LG that recognized it as Dolby Vision. This was while playing Netfix title Altered Carbon.

The format sent for LLDV was: 4K24 422 BT2020 12bit Dolby Vision 297MHz HDCP 2.2. This is the same format my Oppo player sends when configured to Player led Dolby Vision instead of TV led Dolby Vision.

When I changed the custom EDID back to the LG Dolby Vision EDID, the ATV4K stopped sending LLDV and sent 4K24 RGB 8bit 297MHz HDCP 2.2.

So unless you have a TV that presents an EDID specifically advertising support for Player led LLDV, the ATV4K won't send it. Or you have a HDfury device that can spoof an EDID and a TV that supports both TV led and Player led Dolby Vision like the recent LG OLEDs do.
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post #21760 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
I am having a HDR issue after the update. I get DV and HDR on the AppleTV but on Netflix I don't get either.

I have two AppleTVs.

#1 AppleTV to Marantz 7703 to LG 65B6 . This one is working fine HDR and DV work.

#2 AppleTV to Yamaha 5100 to JVC 540. Naturally No DV but I lost HDR on the Netflix app. Uninstalling and Reinstalling did nothing.

Arrrg...
Your issue is the reason why I use a top shelf distribution amplifier or matrix switch to separate the signal going to the display and the AVR vs. going through the AVR and then to the display. That way I can pass an unmolested video signal, and at the same time provide the AVR with all that it needs for audio, including lossless formats.

I just ran through several apps that support both HDR10 and DV playback, with Dynamic Range and Frame Rate matching set to on, and I am not experiencing any issues with the latest update. Although Apple usually doesn't provide release notes for tvOS, I suspect it is the new ATV app that is the major difference between 12.2 and 12.3.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #21761 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Well, Player Led Dolby Vision which was introduced for Sony TVs is often called LLDV.

I performed an LLDV test with my ATV4K and LG B7A just last night on request from a poster in an HDfury thread who wanted to know how to get an ATV4K to output LLDV.

I have an HDfury Vertex that allows selection of custom EDIDs to present to players. One of the custom EDIDs available in the Vertex and other HDfury devices is named:

Sony A1 LLDV V2

I configured my Vertex to use that Sony specific EDID even though I have an LG OLED because I know that my LG supports LLDV based on previously configuring my Oppo 203 to Player led Dolby Vision.

When I had my device chain configured as ATV4K > Denon x4200w > HDfury Vertex > LG, the ATV4K would only send normal TV led Dolby Vision in 4K24 RGB 8bit 297MHz HDCP 2.2 format. So it appears my Denon won't pass LLDV or perhaps I needed to restart some or all devices.

After removing my AVR from the device chain: ATV4K > HDfury Vertex > LG B7A I was successful getting LLDV sent to my LG that recognized it as Dolby Vision. This was while playing Netfix title Altered Carbon.

The format sent for LLDV was: 4K24 422 BT2020 12bit Dolby Vision 297MHz HDCP 2.2. This is the same format my Oppo player sends when configured to Player led Dolby Vision instead of TV led Dolby Vision.

When I changed the custom EDID back to the LG Dolby Vision EDID, the ATV4K stopped sending LLDV and sent 4K24 RGB 8bit 297MHz HDCP 2.2.

So unless you have a TV that presents an EDID specifically advertising support for Player led LLDV, the ATV4K won't send it. Or you have a HDfury device that can spoof an EDID and a TV that supports both TV led and Player led Dolby Vision like the recent LG OLEDs do.
I have 3 Sony DV enabled displays running through various brands of AVRs and a Pre-pro, with all three having Apple TV 4Ks attached and they all work fine before and after the latest tvOS update, including the latest beta build. Also two of those setups have Oppo 203s set to "Auto" which defaults to "Player-led", one through an Onkyo and one through an old Marantz pre-pro (same D&M company as your Denon), with zero issues with DV and all devices.
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post #21762 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
I acknowledge and appreciate your years of knowledge and experience in the field. The frustrating thing is that my equipment was working flawlessly and in one evening it lost one of the big reasons I upgraded in the first place.
I feel for ya. Stuff like this is maddening. I threw caution to the wind and went ahead and did the update tonight. Thank the ghost of Steve Jobs, I still get DV. :whew:

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Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
This a Apple issue and only a Apple issue, since everything else has worked and is still working fine. It is Apples update that broke things.
Uh oh. I can feel the torches getting lit and pitchforks gathered. Lol.
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post #21763 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Your issue is the reason why I use a top shelf distribution amplifier or matrix switch to separate the signal going to the display and the AVR vs. going through the AVR and then to the display. That way I can pass an unmolested video signal, and at the same time provide the AVR with all that it needs for audio, including lossless formats.



I just ran through several apps that support both HDR10 and DV playback, with Dynamic Range and Frame Rate matching set to on, and I am not experiencing any issues with the latest update. Although Apple usually doesn't provide release notes for tvOS, I suspect it is the new ATV app that is the major difference between 12.2 and 12.3.


So what is the amp or switch you use?
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post #21764 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
I have 3 Sony DV enabled displays running through various brands of AVRs and a Pre-pro, with all three having Apple TV 4Ks attached and they all work fine before and after the latest tvOS update, including the latest beta build. Also two of those setups have Oppo 203s set to "Auto" which defaults to "Player-led", one through an Onkyo and one through an old Marantz pre-pro (same D&M company as your Denon), with zero issues with DV and all devices.
I wasn't referring to the latest firmware update. But with the new version I do get Dolby Vision passed through my Denon from the ATV4K successfully.

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post #21765 of 23710 Old 03-28-2019, 11:43 PM
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I wasn't referring to the latest firmware update. But with the new version I do get Dolby Vision passed through my Denon from the ATV4K successfully.
Oh I see what you're saying now. Sorry, I missed it in your original post. That makes me wonder if the Apple TV is now enforcing some funky EDID metadata that is impacting certain configurations.
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post #21766 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 02:23 AM
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Anyone have thoughts on infuse 6 yet?

I tried it for a few minutes last night and it looks fine (can't say I noticed any improvement)

I think I will stop subscribing and just buy the version 6. I had a year subscription and was about to buy lifetime subscription yesterday when I noticed the price had gone up. I also considered buying the stand alone version 5 but now that there is a stand alone version 6 I think I'll go with that.
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Anyone have thoughts on infuse 6 yet?

I tried it for a few minutes last night and it looks fine (can't say I noticed any improvement)

I think I will stop subscribing and just buy the version 6. I had a year subscription and was about to buy lifetime subscription yesterday when I noticed the price had gone up. I also considered buying the stand alone version 5 but now that there is a stand alone version 6 I think I'll go with that.
I bought the stand alone version 5 and very happy with it. Don't see anything compelling on version 6 to buy again. Even at $20.00 to upgrade, I'll wait for 7 or for 6 to go down in price.

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post #21768 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 08:12 AM
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You guys got me worried, but DV still works for me on 12.3 beta - Yamaha rxa760 - Sony 940E.
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post #21769 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 08:37 AM
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I bought the stand alone version 5 and very happy with it. Don't see anything compelling on version 6 to buy again. Even at $20.00 to upgrade, I'll wait for 7 or for 6 to go down in price.
Now I'm confused about infuse.

I should (perhaps) have bought the pro version of 5 last year but I didn't realize I could do that so I subscribed for a year at 9.99

That's almost over. ...

Now I see a pro version of 6 in the App Store... $25. and I was just about to buy that.

But ..... I also see a bundle of 5 pro and 6 pro called "upgrade" ... seriously strange. Why would that be a thing ?... ??//.... So confused... It looks like I can buy V6 pro for $25 and I bought a gift card in town to do that but this "upgrade" bundle is confusing me big time. Guess I ought to read on the fire core forums.

-Brian


edit- From reading the fire core website the upgrade bundle is supposed to be a discount... and now I see that it is $5 off. So if you already have V5 Pro you can get V6 for a discount... if it works like it says on the forum.

Last edited by Brian Hampton; 03-29-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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post #21770 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cydeweyz View Post
So what is the amp or switch you use?
A distribution amplifier is a somewhat fancy name for an HDMI splitter but with more capabilities. I started with the following to test out the tech:

https://www.avproedge.com/ac-da12-auhd-gen2.html

and then moved up to this small matrix switch to accommodate all of my 4K/HDR sources:

https://www.avproedge.com/ac-mx42-auhd.html

These relatively inexpensive boxes allowed me to keep my existing pricey Atmos enabled AVR - ( which passes HDR10 - but not DV or HLG ).

Both devices have extensive EDID management which ensures that the source knows exactly the display's capabilities, while keeping the AVR out of the video stream.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #21771 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Well, Player Led Dolby Vision which was introduced for Sony TVs is often called LLDV.
I'm always getting player/tv led mixed up. In any case the misnomer was claimed, by the first mention I'm aware of, to have been started by Sony but I wasn't there so it's all hearsay to me.

Note that the ATV4K supported DoVi on the Sony displays before any other non-Sony device and Apple (and Dolby) documents the ATV4K as using DoVi Profile 5. No mention of a super magical Profile 5 that's Sony specific.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21772 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Now I'm confused about infuse.

I should (perhaps) have bought the pro version of 5 last year but I didn't realize I could do that so I subscribed for a year at 9.99

That's almost over. ...

Now I see a pro version of 6 in the App Store... $25. and I was just about to buy that.

But ..... I also see a bundle of 5 pro and 6 pro called "upgrade" ... seriously strange. Why would that be a thing ?... ??//.... So confused... It looks like I can buy V6 pro for $25 and I bought a gift card in town to do that but this "upgrade" bundle is confusing me big time. Guess I ought to read on the fire core forums.

-Brian


edit- From reading the fire core website the upgrade bundle is supposed to be a discount... and now I see that it is $5 off. So if you already have V5 Pro you can get V6 for a discount... if it works like it says on the forum.
Yes, Infuse pricing is very confusing. I know that you can either buy Infuse by paying a monthly or yearly fee or buying the lifetime version. Also, the way I bought it is by buying the one-time charge but this way you only get the minor version upgrades like 5.1, 5.2, etc. Also, you can upgrade from 5 to 6 for $5.00 less but it's not worth it to me since I like 5 the way it is. I downloaded 6 just to check it out and after adding the same libraries that are on 5, it didn't find all of the movies so don't know if it's still going through some bugs since it's new. I ended up deleting the newer version. If they end up having a 1/2 off special or something like that, I may buy it later?
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post #21773 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I configured my Vertex to use that Sony specific EDID even though I have an LG OLED because I know that my LG supports LLDV based on previously configuring my Oppo 203 to Player led Dolby Vision.
I did wonder if the ATV4K was sending YCC rather than RGB to Sony displays but not quite enough to check. My point includes the fact that Dolby doesn't appear to proscribe encapsulation as part of the profile. A design goal was for it work in almost any HDMI configuration, hence [email protected] That doesn't mean that other encapsulations aren't included in the encoder/decoder engines.

As an aside, I would expect that most displays will accept any reasonable Profile. The Dolby compliance testing seems more robust than the HDMI testing. My "not that old" previous AVR didn't like P5/YCC and it hasn't been all that long that the Vertex wouldn't properly pass P5/RGB and then wouldn't pass P5/YCC. Despite how annoying I find HDFury I'm willing to cut them some slack because they're doing their own HDMI repeater. When major players like Sony (or Onkyo or Denon) screw up it's just annoying that they mis-programmed the HDMI sub-system (or in the case of Sony presumably were too lazy to manage what every other display company doing DoVi managed).

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21774 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I did wonder if the ATV4K was sending YCC rather than RGB to Sony displays but not quite enough to check. My point includes the fact that Dolby doesn't appear to proscribe encapsulation as part of the profile. A design goal was for it work in almost any HDMI configuration, hence [email protected] That doesn't mean that other encapsulations aren't included in the encoder/decoder engines.

As an aside, I would expect that most displays will accept any reasonable Profile. The Dolby compliance testing seems more robust than the HDMI testing. My "not that old" previous AVR didn't like P5/YCC and it hasn't been all that long that the Vertex wouldn't properly pass P5/RGB and then wouldn't pass P5/YCC. Despite how annoying I find HDFury I'm willing to cut them some slack because they're doing their own HDMI repeater. When major players like Sony (or Onkyo or Denon) screw up it's just annoying that they mis-programmed the HDMI sub-system (or in the case of Sony presumably were too lazy to manage what every other display company doing DoVi managed).
Dolby Vision from the Apple TV is tunneled in a at YCbCr422 8 bit. (I was mistaken when I said RGB.)

Last edited by mutelight; 03-29-2019 at 10:05 PM.
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post #21775 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
...
After removing my AVR from the device chain: ATV4K > HDfury Vertex > LG B7A I was successful getting LLDV sent to my LG that recognized it as Dolby Vision. This was while playing Netfix title Altered Carbon.

The format sent for LLDV was: 4K24 422 BT2020 12bit Dolby Vision 297MHz HDCP 2.2. This is the same format my Oppo player sends when configured to Player led Dolby Vision instead of TV led Dolby Vision.

When I changed the custom EDID back to the LG Dolby Vision EDID, the ATV4K stopped sending LLDV and sent 4K24 RGB 8bit 297MHz HDCP 2.2.
...
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Dolby Vision from the Apple TV is tunneled in a RGB 8-bit signal to Sony TVs.
I'm not sure how both of these posts can be correct.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21776 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 12:07 PM
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I'm not sure how both of these posts can be correct.
Perhaps there is a discrepancy with them spoofing the EDID. I can't see the signal info on my Marantz but on my two systems that have Onkyo AVRs that are connected to Sony TVs, it reports RGB "24 bit". Same applies to my Oppos connected.

*EDIT* I lied. I recalled incorrectly and it is sent via YCbCr422 8-bit. claw is totally right. My apologies. Also updated my original post.
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Last edited by mutelight; 03-29-2019 at 10:03 PM.
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post #21777 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 12:48 PM
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I have no ATV4K DV issues, with the new production firmware, going through a 2018 Yamaha (CX-A5200) to my Sony Z9D.
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Sony XBR75Z9D, Samsung 65F9000 , Yamaha CX-A5200 & Outlaw 770
Samsung K8500, OPPO 103-D, Genie 2 and C61Ks, Roku Ultra, ATV4K, and Harmony Elite
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post #21778 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Perhaps there is a discrepancy with them spoofing the EDID. I can't see the signal info on my Marantz but on my two systems that have Onkyo AVRs that are connected to Sony TVs, it reports RGB "24 bit". Same applies to my Oppos connected.
You can see the incoming HDMI signal information on your Marantz, but it involves a bit more effort.

Using your remote, press "Setup", then navigate to "General" > "Information" > "Video". This will display your incoming signal information.
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post #21779 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DOC1963 View Post
You can see the incoming HDMI signal information on your Marantz, but it involves a bit more effort.

Using your remote, press "Setup", then navigate to "General" > "Information" > "Video". This will display your incoming signal information.
And today I learned something new, thanks! I will give it a try when I get home this evening.
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post #21780 of 23710 Old 03-29-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DOC1963 View Post
You can see the incoming HDMI signal information on your Marantz, but it involves a bit more effort.

Using your remote, press "Setup", then navigate to "General" > "Information" > "Video". This will display your incoming signal information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
And today I learned something new, thanks! I will give it a try when I get home this evening.
The Denon mobile app also provides this information, very handy and much easier and quicker than drilling down into the Setup menu.
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