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post #22111 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
New to ATV4K and digital generally, but jumped-into the pool today buying 4K Alien and Interstellar respectively for $7.99 and $9.99 which I thought were good deals. I haven't racked them up, but am gratified to learn here that Interstellar is apparently 2.40:1, hopefully beginning-to-end.


Anyway I wonder: is there any place where I can find such specs as Aspect Ratio IN ADVANCE for movies that I might be interested to buy from the Apple Store?
You may find this thread useful wrt aspect ratios and iTunes purchased movies:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3058455
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post #22112 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
You may find this thread useful wrt aspect ratios and iTunes purchased movies:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3058455
Thanks for that--I'd forgotten about Apple communities. That thread discusses the exact problem I'm anticipating i.e. re: Interstellar I've hear Nolan changes ARs...


With Blu-rays I can always search the movie, with blu-ray.com or highdefdigest having virtually all of them viewed & reviewed with specs & comments, but apparently such a resource is NOT available for iTunes digital movies.


The movies with changing ARs, as I first encountered with The Dark Knight, I prefer to zoom to fit my 'scope screen, and then use my projectors built-in shutter capability to mask-off the upper and lower part i.e. the IMAX scenes. Maybe the ATV4K's chapter-skip function will let me check movies in advance for this.


EDIT: I only just now realize blu-ray.com has an iTunes section. I must check it out!
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post #22113 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Thanks for that--I'd forgotten about Apple communities. That thread discusses the exact problem I'm anticipating i.e. re: Interstellar I've hear Nolan changes ARs...


With Blu-rays I can always search the movie, with blu-ray.com or highdefdigest having virtually all of them viewed & reviewed with specs & comments, but apparently such a resource is NOT available for iTunes digital movies.


The movies with changing ARs, as I first encountered with The Dark Knight, I prefer to zoom to fit my 'scope screen, and then use my projectors built-in shutter capability to mask-off the upper and lower part i.e. the IMAX scenes. Maybe the ATV4K's chapter-skip function will let me check movies in advance for this.


EDIT: I only just now realize blu-ray.com has an iTunes section. I must check it out!
Thanks for the tip about the iTunes section even if I’m reluctant to purchase a bunch of movies from iTunes. Still prefer disc but sometimes Apple’s prices and certain titles just make sense.
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post #22114 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
EDIT: I only just now realize blu-ray.com has an iTunes section. I must check it out!
I use it often. I have always had Blu Ray dot com bookmarked because I used it plenty when I bought blu rays.

These days it's very useful for iTunes information including sales. I believe you can put a price point at which you would buy particular iTunes movies and they will email you when they go on sale. You can also track the price histories.
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post #22115 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post
Thanks for the tip about the iTunes section even if I’m reluctant to purchase a bunch of movies from iTunes. Still prefer disc but sometimes Apple’s prices and certain titles just make sense.
Over time the iTunes prices can't be beat. They have fantastic sales. I have given up buying anything but iTunes movies.

However,... I am concerned about recent dis-appearing movies so I'm in a sort of moment of doubt myself.
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post #22116 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Over time the iTunes prices can't be beat. They have fantastic sales. I have given up buying anything but iTunes movies.

However,... I am concerned about recent dis-appearing movies so I'm in a sort of moment of doubt myself.
That’s my concern, disappearing movies, but I agree with you on the pricing.

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post #22117 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Who believes the Hunger Games on iTunes will go back to 4K?



Who thinks Disney will remove iTunes purchases when they launch the Disney Streaming service ?



I like the idea of most of my movies in iTunes but I always wonder if that’s a bad plan given how my library contents can change. Often for the better but sometimes worse.


I think you’re right with your iTunes strategy. Having it there and MA is the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #22118 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 05:35 PM
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I noticed that the refresh rate change takes longer when I have my Apple TV 4k connected to my receiver than directly connected to my TV or HDMI switch. I sometimes end up missing the first second of video after the refresh rate change and that's with Quick Start enabled (Quick Start disabled actually loads videos faster so I would end up missing more seconds of video with Quick Start disabled) whereas I would still see the loading screen for about a second more after the refresh rate change if my Apple TV 4k is connected directly to my TV or HDMI switch. With my NUC with LibreElec I can adjust the delay before the video starts during a refresh rate change, so it's not really an issue with LibreELEC on my NUC. I'm considering just connecting my Apple TV directly to my TV and using HDMI ARC or optical from my TV to the receiver for the Apple TV's audio and just setting the Apple TV 4k to Dolby Digital 5.1 unless there is a way to speed up the refresh rate change when connected to my receiver. I have the HDMI passthrough signal set to Direct on my receiver. I'm assuming that it takes longer to change refresh rates when my devices are connected to the receiver and not directly to the TV is because there is an HDMI handshake first between the input device, for example the Apple TV 4k, and the receiver and then a 2nd HDMI handshake between the receiver and TV?

Last edited by Dave3000; 04-25-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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post #22119 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
I'm not extremely familiar w/ Infuse app & ATV4k, but would Infuse also send LCPM audio for anything streamed via Netflix/Amazon apps or it's only applicable for files being played from the network that the ATV resides on?
All audio from all apps is decoded internally and sent via PCM unless you force Dolby Digital at all times.
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post #22120 of 23759 Old 04-25-2019, 10:16 PM
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If I intend to use optical or HDMI ARC from the TV to the receiver and the Apple TV 4k is connected to the TV using an HDMI cable and the TV can only passthrough PCM 2.0 or Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical or HDMI ARC, would Dolby Digital 5.1 be the best audio setting in the Apple TV 4k in this case? Also in this case only 2 front speakers are connected to the receiver and the receiver can decode Dolby Digital 5.1 and output it to the 2 speakers without discarding the LFE channel as it will be mixed into the 2 channels. I only use Netflix and iTunes on my Apple TV 4k, so lossless audio is not required.

Last edited by Dave3000; 04-25-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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post #22121 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 04:44 AM
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I recently purchased the Sony WH1000XM3 bluetooth headphones which supports Apples preferred AAC codec.

In the Sony APP it shows AAC fine when pairing with iPhone and iPAD, however reverts to horrible painful SBC when connected to my APPLE TV4K.

Can anyone help with this as I am sure APPLE TV4k supports AAC bluetooth to headphones.

Is there an Audio setting I should change on the Apple TV4K?
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post #22122 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
I recently purchased the Sony WH1000XM3 bluetooth headphones which supports Apples preferred AAC codec.

In the Sony APP it shows AAC fine when pairing with iPhone and iPAD, however reverts to horrible painful SBC when connected to my APPLE TV4K.

Can anyone help with this as I am sure APPLE TV4k supports AAC bluetooth to headphones.

Is there an Audio setting I should change on the Apple TV4K?
I believe the first post has recommenced settings for audio as well as video.

I would at least go have a look at the settings and if you haven't tried it force stereo if that's an option.

I'm sorry I don't have your headphones to test. The only wireless headphones I've used with my ATV4K have been the airpods from Apple and no surprise those seemed to work.

I had a problem which I feel was Apple's problem but Sony resolved it via FW update. I wouldn't hesitate to at least let Sony support know there is an issue.

-Brian
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post #22123 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Over time the iTunes prices can't be beat. They have fantastic sales. I have given up buying anything but iTunes movies.

However,... I am concerned about recent dis-appearing movies so I'm in a sort of moment of doubt myself.
Which movies have disappeared? Very occasionally I’ve had a movie disappear or change resolution, but it’s always returned within a day.

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post #22124 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I think you’re right with your iTunes strategy. Having it there and MA is the best.
I'm new to all this and have found digital movies to be confusing at best. UltraViolet, MoviesAnywhere, Apple/iTunes/TV, Vudu, it's been a struggle for me to figure-out where to buy from TBH. But it does seem that since I've bought-into the Apple ecosystem with lots of iGizmos and now ATV4K, that to buy from iTunes must be "the best" for me given especially that if I buy in HD and later the movie is upgraded to 4K, well it looks like they do that for free!!!!?!!! I had started by redeeming in-box digital codes at MA, then I found I could upgrade DVDs and some HD-DVDs using Vudu, but now iTunes purchases seem to appear in Vudu sometimes, and MA sometimes, so...


Anyway maybe I saw this here, but an app called CheapCharts appears useful as well. Shows new sale prices (lots of iTunes for $5 bucks!) and I guess also will let me put faves onto a Watch List.
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post #22125 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Which movies have disappeared? Very occasionally I’ve had a movie disappear or change resolution, but it’s always returned within a day.

Pip
You could say the 4K version of The Hunger Games is gone and has taken more than a day to return.

For my part I've been sort of indexing the things I have and I found strange behavior from

Captain America The First Avenger
Thor
Iron Man 2

I had older copies of these that I redeemed from Blu Rays in 2012-ish. For a while I had 2 copies in my iTunes because a newer cover art version sat beside an older cover art version without the Marvel Studios logo. I hid the older Paramount Studios distributing versions so that I didn't have double copies in my library.

Then the newer copies dis-appeared... This could have something to do with UltraViolet closing as I may have redeemed them there as well.

I un-hid the older versions and they showed up in my library but would not show up on my iPhone and in the iTunes Store these movies came up as buy-able indicating iTunes wasn't aware I owned them.

I took the issue up with iTunes and they said they couldn't redeem those movies as they were no longer on the iTunes severs but they gave me rental coupons instead. I just decided to rebuy all 3 movies as that was at least quick solution... in the case of Captain America I was able to upgrade in MA to a 4K version. If I have to rebuy a movie to get the 4K version I don't have a problem with that at all really... that's worth it.

Now, This hasn't been a problem before and I know the Marvel Studios versions of these movies are popular now .... . I sort of resent it though because they are in my iTunes purchase history so this isn't a case of a title they don't stock anymore.

-Brian
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post #22126 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
All audio from all apps is decoded internally and sent via PCM unless you force Dolby Digital at all times.
And there inlies the problem: by most accounts, the ATV4k is the premier streaming device, but its shine is on video, NOT AUDIO. Some of us care about both video and audio, and do have a reference HT system.

So basically, in this digital streaming world, one can't have their cake and eat it too? If you care about video, go for ATV4k and have lackluster compressed audio for streaming Netflix/Prime, or if audio is your thing, drop your video standards and go for the NVIDIA Shield since it will send LPCM uncompressed audio to your legacy AVR/prepro.

Seriously, how hard would it be for you Apple to implement pass-through lossless HD audio? While I appreciate your efforts to implement Dolby Atmos, I find it hard to believe the majority of ATV4k users actually have the supporting hardware (the requisite # of speakers, AVR, etc) to actually take real advantage of this latest audio codec.

/ rant
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post #22127 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave3000 View Post
If I intend to use optical or HDMI ARC from the TV to the receiver and the Apple TV 4k is connected to the TV using an HDMI cable and the TV can only passthrough PCM 2.0 or Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical or HDMI ARC, would Dolby Digital 5.1 be the best audio setting in the Apple TV 4k in this case? Also in this case only 2 front speakers are connected to the receiver and the receiver can decode Dolby Digital 5.1 and output it to the 2 speakers without discarding the LFE channel as it will be mixed into the 2 channels. I only use Netflix and iTunes on my Apple TV 4k, so lossless audio is not required.
Generally speaking, the higher the bandwidth audio signal you can send to your AVR, regardless of # of speakers your system has, the better off you are. I would choose DD 5.1 instead of PCM 2.0 in your setup.

Here is my supporting test:

- My HT setup: "only" 5.2 speakers
- test case movie: Thor Ragnarok
- Netflix streaming via ATV4k: Dolby Digital 5.1 (compressed audio). Letting ATV choose 'best audio' I only get PCM 2.0...so I force it to DD 5.1
- BluRay physical disc: Dolby True HD 7.1 (uncompressed audio)

Findings:
Despite not having a 7.1 setup, watching the movie on BluRay disc offered tremendously better HT experience than streaming: the explosions, the depth of voices, the entire spatial and movie experience was kicked up 5 notches. No contest. The reasoning is that the BluRay audio codec was an uncompressed signal

So if given the chance, I would always watch something on disc vs. just streaming it, and if I have to stream, I try to send my pre/pro the best/highest signal possible.
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post #22128 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
- Netflix streaming via ATV4k: Dolby Digital 5.1 (compressed audio). Letting ATV choose 'best audio' I only get PCM 2.0...so I force it to DD 5.1
Either you're confused about PCM 2.0 or your system is misconfigured. Please refer to the first post in this thread.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #22129 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Either you're confused about PCM 2.0 or your system is misconfigured. Please refer to the first post in this thread.
I could be confused, no doubt about that...

But in my setup, the ATV4k is connected straight to TV via HDMI and TV connects to pre/pro via optical, hence the ATV4k detects that best audio TV can do is stereo. My PrePro (Krell) can do 1080p max, so I feed it audio only, no video pass through whatsoever. That way I can get HDR and DV video and best audio would be DD 5.1 for any streaming media. Letting the ATV4k select best audio available I get stereo sent to my Krell...hence I force it to DD 5.1

Can you pinpoint where I may have my system mis-configured? Glad to be wrong if I can improve my audio signal...
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post #22130 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:23 AM
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I converted a 5.1 system to a 7.2 system to a 5.2.2 Atmos system.

Even with only 2 over head speakers I find the Atmos to be worth installing.
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post #22131 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
I could be confused, no doubt about that...

But in my setup, the ATV4k is connected straight to TV via HDMI and TV connects to pre/pro via optical, hence the ATV4k detects that best audio TV can do is stereo. My PrePro (Krell) can do 1080p max, so I feed it audio only, no video pass through whatsoever. That way I can get HDR and DV video and best audio would be DD 5.1 for any streaming media. Letting the ATV4k select best audio available I get stereo sent to my Krell...hence I force it to DD 5.1

Can you pinpoint where I may have my system mis-configured? Glad to be wrong if I can improve my audio signal...
Found it.

ATV4K best audio is through the HDMI output directly to a capable processor.

Last edited by Brian Hampton; 04-26-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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post #22132 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Found it
Right, I'm fully aware that the limitations of optical connection is compressed 5.1 audio...is there a point/benefit to connect the ATV4k to the pre/pro? The Krell won't ever send 4k, HDR or DV video to my Sony TV, so I don't believe that option is available, unless I want to watch everything in 1080p, in which case I might get better audio...
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post #22133 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:36 AM
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I don't know your pre pro well enough.

Could a modern AVR do what it does? ... I believe a HDFury dongle for about $100 will split the signal in two letting you direct the audio to that system and the video to it's own sink. That's how I would proceed if replacing part of the Audio system isn't an option.
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post #22134 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Found it.

ATV4K best audio is through the HDMI output directly to a capable processor.
Thanks Brian, I agree with you, but I've never tried that connection because I will lose 4k/HDR/DV video quality because my pre/pro won't ever pass that. For those fellow AVS members with similar setups like mine, do you connect their ATV4k to the legacy AVRs?

So either way, the sacrifice is either 1080P video and better sound, or best video and compressed sound?
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post #22135 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:44 AM
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Question for ATV 4K PLEX users that use OTA tuner/DVR (hopefully someone)

I had an ATV 4K for one day awhile ago. The PLEX OTA DVR was utterly unusable. I was shocked such a bad release even went out the door. From what I understand, the PLEX client has been substantially improved. Im thinking of giving it another shot. Questions:

How is the OTA support? Does it readily tune/change a channel? When I tried it if it did, it would take forever and fail most of the time
How is DVR? Any issues with FF/REW? Again, this basically didnt work. It would lock up every time.
On the DVR, is it just 1x 2x 3x FF/REW or is there a 30/10 sec skip forward/back?

On the non DVR side, but also PLEX, any issue playing a UHD rip with DV/HDR and Atmos? All of that works?

Thanks!
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post #22136 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
And there inlies the problem: by most accounts, the ATV4k is the premier streaming device, but its shine is on video, NOT AUDIO. Some of us care about both video and audio, and do have a reference HT system.
Right, I want bitstreaming too and I was just clarifying that everything is decoded internally as your statement below was confusing to me:
Quote:
would Infuse also send LCPM audio for anything streamed via Netflix/Amazon apps or it's only applicable for files being played from the network
Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
So basically, in this digital streaming world, one can't have their cake and eat it too? If you care about video, go for ATV4k and have lackluster compressed audio for streaming Netflix/Prime, or if audio is your thing, drop your video standards and go for the NVIDIA Shield since it will send LPCM uncompressed audio to your legacy AVR/prepro.
All audio from the streaming world like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc. is lossy DD+ regardless of the device you use.

You have the Shield and the Apple TV reversed in this case. The Apple TV will take the source audio, decode it and then send it LPCM. The Shield will pass along the bitstream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Seriously, how hard would it be for you Apple to implement pass-through lossless HD audio? While I appreciate your efforts to implement Dolby Atmos, I find it hard to believe the majority of ATV4k users actually have the supporting hardware (the requisite # of speakers, AVR, etc) to actually take real advantage of this latest audio codec.

/ rant
This has been discussed since the launch of the ATV4K and as I said earlier I want it as well but to clarify it isn't them not taking advantage of the codecs, they are, just decoding it before they pass it along via LPCM.
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post #22137 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I don't know your pre pro well enough.

Could a modern AVR do what it does? ... I believe a HDFury dongle for about $100 will split the signal in two letting you direct the audio to that system and the video to it's own sink. That's how I would proceed if replacing part of the Audio system isn't an option.
By no means I wish to sound vain or conceited, and apologies if I mistakenly come across that way...

...but my Krell Evolution 707 serves dual purposes: 2 ch music and HT duties, and both are superbly rendered. Getting another processor just so I can handle Atmos and latest video standards and maintain same level of sound purity & quality will be a futile effort...I've tried to replace it, but nothing came close, unless I spend mega bucks. Such is the case with these boutique audio shops unfortunately.

Moreover, funny you mentioned it, but I've tried hooking up an HDFury Vertex back in Feb, and while the TV did get all the video the ATV4k sent it, my prepro never got any sound. Hence my HDFury experience was lackluster.
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post #22138 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Right, I want bitstreaming too and I was just clarifying that everything is decoded internally as your statement below was confusing to me:




All audio from the streaming world like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc. is lossy DD+ regardless of the device you use.

You have the Shield and the Apple TV reversed in this case. The Apple TV will take the source audio, decode it and then send it LPCM. The Shield will pass along the bitstream.



This has been discussed since the launch of the ATV4K and as I said earlier I want it as well but to clarify it isn't them not taking advantage of the codecs, they are, just decoding it before they pass it along via LPCM.
Yep, my comments definitely muddied up the waters, apologies for that, but at least it spurred some good ole chinwag and someone else could also benefit from this.

Me thinks my goal is simple enough in its description: I just want to send my prepro uncompressed audio from ATV4k when streaming Netflix/Prime akin to the sound I get when I play a BluRay movie via my Cambridge Audio CXUHD.

I suppose I can't pull a blinder on this setup, no matter what I throw at my existing system.
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post #22139 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Yep, my comments definitely muddied up the waters, apologies for that, but at least it spurred some good ole chinwag and someone else could also benefit from this.

Me thinks my goal is simple enough in its description: I just want to send my prepro uncompressed audio from ATV4k when streaming Netflix/Prime akin to the sound I get when I play a BluRay movie via my Cambridge Audio CXUHD.

I suppose I can't pull a blinder on this setup, no matter what I throw at my existing system.
I think it is important to realize that all audio from the streaming sources you are referencing is compressed and lossy already. In fact your Blu-rays are compressed audio as well (it is lossless though) but if you are getting PCM from your Blu-ray player that means the player is doing the decoding of the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA track internally and then passing it via PCM.

Based on the description of your configuration using an optical connection, any 4K player will behave the same since optical tops out at lossy 5.1.

If you aren't watching any local media content like Blu-ray backups on the Apple TV and it is all from streaming services, I would stick with forcing Dolby Digital via TOSLINK to get 4K as all the audio streams from those platforms is compressed lossy audio anyway.
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post #22140 of 23759 Old 04-26-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
I think it is important to realize that all audio from the streaming sources you are referencing is compressed and lossy already. In fact your Blu-rays are compressed audio as well (it is lossless though) but if you are getting PCM from your Blu-ray player that means the player is doing the decoding of the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA track internally and then passing it via PCM.

Based on the description of your configuration using an optical connection, any 4K player will behave the same since optical tops out at lossy 5.1.

If you aren't watching any local media content like Blu-ray backups on the Apple TV and it is all from streaming services, I would stick with forcing Dolby Digital via TOSLINK to get 4K as all the audio streams from those platforms is compressed lossy audio anyway.
@mutelight - thanks mate for that, my insanity remains at bay!

My Cambridge Audio CXUHD 4k player is configured to bitstream data to my prepro (via HDMI), so it's incumbent upon the Krell to properly decode any audio codec it is being sent, no PCM while watching any physical discs. But I'm still confused at your statement as it may be contradicting: aren't compressed and lossless at odds with each other? I thought that the Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio audio found on BluRays or some 4K discs are truly uncompressed and lossless by design.

The only duty the ATV4k has in my setup is Netflix and Prime streaming, don't have the time given my international travels to backup any DVD/BluRays discs...hence it seems I already have the recommended connections given my setup.

Thanks to all and I appreciate those who indulged my comments as of late!

Cheerio!

Last edited by no_cure; 04-26-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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