Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 741 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22201 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DarenG View Post
I don’t think it does. As I stated before I stopped getting Dolby Vision notifications from my LG OLED with those settings. Not to mention in the menu it says “disabled” on Apple TV.
Perhaps there is a handshake issue somewhere as I run all three of my Apple TVs in 4K SDR mode with matching enabled and they properly switch to DV for applicable titles.

What content are you trying and from which service?
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post #22202 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 12:55 PM
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post #22203 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
If you think this is worth it...and to bring this feature one step closer to reality, please submit a ticket to Apple (I just did).

Use this link to do so: https://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html

Done!
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I was so happy without HDR...
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post #22204 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenG View Post
I don’t think it does. As I stated before I stopped getting Dolby Vision notifications from my LG OLED with those settings. Not to mention in the menu it says “disabled” on Apple TV.
Something is wonky then. I think you already know this, but there are 2 main video settings: what the main ATV menu looks like (HDR/SDR/DV) vs. what the actual film content is. So as long as you have the Range & Frame settings match to ON, and the content source is DV, then the LG TV should play DV accordingly.

Per the 1st page in this thread, the recommendation is to set the ATV menu to 4k SDR, but have the range and frame match to ON.
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post #22205 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Something is wonky then. I think you already know this, but there are 2 main video settings: what the main ATV menu looks like (HDR/SDR/DV) vs. what the actual film content is. So as long as you have the Range & Frame settings match to ON, and the content source is DV, then the LG TV should play DV accordingly.



Per the 1st page in this thread, the recommendation is to set the ATV menu to 4k SDR, but have the range and frame match to ON.

I will test again but it appears to be disabled. I will let you know how it goes.
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post #22206 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Nope, if you subscribe to HBO or other premium services as an add-on to Prime Video, the stream originates from Amazon's servers. They do a separate higher quality encode than HBO does for their own apps (HBO Go and HBO Now).
It may be better, but it is still crap especially for video. Yes I always go through Amazon as opposed to my HBO Now App.
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post #22207 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Nope, if you subscribe to HBO or other premium services as an add-on to Prime Video, the stream originates from Amazon's servers. They do a separate higher quality encode than HBO does for their own apps (HBO Go and HBO Now).
Are you saying that they are using a codec other than H.264 for 1080P signal content?

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post #22208 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by naustin View Post
Tried GoT Battle of Winterfell Amazon/HBO channel on my Roku because past Apple Amazon issues. The Roku sound was poor so I switched to AT4K Amazon/HBO and the sound was proper DD+ 5.1. Very Nice
Damn, why didn't I think of that. The audio sucked last night on GOT

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post #22209 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DarenG View Post
and [if] those apps were fixed would there be a reason to still use that setting?!
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenG View Post
Also I noticed these settings disable Dolby Vision and my OLED notifications for Dolby Vision never come on.
It's hard to say absent enough information but you almost certainly have a configuration error or defect.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #22210 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:53 PM
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Will I be able to access HBO GO through Roku if I pay through my ATV4K? Not at home ATM to try...tia

Edit: I did a little research and found it is possible

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post #22211 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 01:55 PM
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Will I be able to access HBO GO through Roku if I pay through my ATV4K? Not at home ATM to try...tia
Yes, as long as you have an active HBO subscription, HBO doesn't care how you access its shows.
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post #22212 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Yes.



It's hard to say absent enough information but you almost certainly have a configuration error or defect.
To add onto what @bodosom said and to ensure nothing is wrong with your TV. If you have a DV capable UHD player (like Oppo 203) and a DV movie, make sure that works and you get a proper DV showing. If it does, then it's some ATV4k setting and should be easy to remedy.

Reboot your ATV4k nevertheless (or even factory reset), always a smart choice when things don't work as designed and you're sure about your settings.
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post #22213 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 02:28 PM
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New Owner Alert: Queued-up Interstellar 4K on our Apple TV 4K just to take a peek and was dismayed to observe that Subtitles are out-of-sync--they lag by a second or so. I read here about some people having subs appear AHEAD OF the dialog, but honestly I think I'd prefer that to lagging as its doing. Is this a common problem? Any way to fix it? Also, what is the Auto selection in the subtitles area for?


I should note that Interstellar was purchased-from thus streamed by Apple directly.
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post #22214 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
I recently purchased a ATV 4k for PSVue multiview and NetFlix ATMOS (my other streamers are FireTV Stick 4k and Nvidia Shield neither of which support either of those things currently). After connecting my ATV to my Denon x6400h I was really bummed to see extreme color banding (so bad it was unwatchable) when viewing 4k HDR content. After spending several hours checking and tweaking settings and swapping out HDMI cables I was ready to give up and just send the ATV back. Then I remembered a little tidbit about issues with the HDMI inputs that are far away physically on the back of the Denon AVR from the HDMI out to the display. Swapped the ATV to closest HDMI port to the HDMI out to the display and bingo, 4k HDR content looked stunning with no discernible color banding.



Just wanted to post in case anyone else ran into the same issue.
Wow, that's nuts. Never heard of such a thing.

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post #22215 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I watched "Battle" on my ATV 4K with the HBO GO app. Last night's "Battle" episode was very dark (on purpose), and I could see a ton of low light compression artifacts as well when they were flying through the snowy clouds, and when Bran was seeing through the raven.



1080P (H.264) streaming is so compressed that there's just no getting around these artifacts in dark or noisy scenes - doesn't really matter what streamer - internal or external - as all the feeds originate from HBO's servers. When they offer the whole series in UHD Blu-ray, or when iTunes comes out with a Dolby Vision series package, I will be all over either!



EDIT: The HBO GO sound was great!
I guess Sony's processing helps with that as I had none.

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post #22216 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
New Owner Alert: Queued-up Interstellar 4K on our Apple TV 4K just to take a peek and was dismayed to observe that Subtitles are out-of-sync--they lag by a second or so. I read here about some people having subs appear AHEAD OF the dialog, but honestly I think I'd prefer that to lagging as its doing. Is this a common problem? Any way to fix it? Also, what is the Auto selection in the subtitles area for?


I should note that Interstellar was purchased-from thus streamed by Apple directly.
I just tested it out and it is almost as if the subtitles show up after the actor has finished their delivery of the line. Very strange and it down to the encode Apple has on their servers.
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post #22217 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 03:33 PM
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I just tested it out and it is almost as if the subtitles show up after the actor has finished their delivery of the line. Very strange and it down to the encode Apple has on their servers.
Good grief well thanks mutelight for taking a look. I'm not even sure my hearing-impaired wife will want to watch this one with me, but in any case I sure hope it is an exception and not a rule for ATV subs.




BTW I've been surfing ATV "Tips & Tricks" and found that I can ask the remote "what did she say?" and it will back-up the movie and play again with subs. I wonder if that is what Auto is about. Although lately we've turned subs on quite a lot, my wife does try very hard not to use them...

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post #22218 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Are you saying that they are using a codec other than H.264 for 1080P signal content?
They use the same codec and resolution, it is just that Amazon serves up higher bitrate encodes.

Apparently Amazon is reported to stream at 10mbps whereas HBO Go/Now is 5mbps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cordcutters...ay_to/ekt9vqi/

I would test it myself but since I don't watch GoT and I get HBO for $5/mo through DirecTV Now, I can't justify the extra $10/mo.
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post #22219 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 03:45 PM
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Good grief well thanks mutelight for taking a look. I'm not even sure my hearing-impaired wife will want to watch this one with me, but in any case I sure hope it is an exception and not a rule for ATV subs.




BTW I've been surfing ATV "Tips & Tricks" and found that I can ask the remote "what did she say?" and it will back-up the movie and play again with subs. I wonder if that is what Auto is about. Although lately we've turned subs on quite a lot, my wife does try very hard not to use them...
I don't typically use subtitles with the iTunes encodes but have watched a dozen or so late at night and used them and have not seen that issue in other titles. Not a huge sample size but this is the first time I have seen the issue.
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post #22220 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
They use the same codec and resolution, it is just that Amazon serves up higher bitrate encodes.

Apparently Amazon is reported to stream at 10mbps whereas HBO Go/Now is 5mbps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cordcutters...ay_to/ekt9vqi/

I would test it myself but since I don't watch GoT and I get HBO for $5/mo through DirecTV Now, I can't justify the extra $10/mo.
As Spock would say: "I am understandably curious." When I get some time later, I will break out Xcode and re-activate the HUD on my ATV. I'll queue up some 1080P content on Prime, and then GoT on HBO GO and report back with the bit rates.
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post #22221 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
As Spock would say: "I am understandably curious." When I get some time later, I will break out Xcode and re-activate the HUD on my ATV. I'll queue up some 1080P content on Prime, and then GoT on HBO GO and report back with the bit rates.
You will need to have HBO through Amazon to do a true apples to apples test.
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post #22222 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
They use the same codec and resolution, it is just that Amazon serves up higher bitrate encodes.

Apparently Amazon is reported to stream at 10mbps whereas HBO Go/Now is 5mbps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cordcutters...ay_to/ekt9vqi/

I would test it myself but since I don't watch GoT and I get HBO for $5/mo through DirecTV Now, I can't justify the extra $10/mo.
I already had HBO NOW and the GOT episode last night was virtually unwatchable. I paid the $15 for HBO through Amazon Prime hoping to see an improvement, and honestly it was only marginally better on my LG B6. Waste of $15 for me (I had already used the free 7-day trial a while back). If I didn't have to worry about spoilers I'd be waiting for Season 8 to come out on blu-ray. Final season of one of the biggest shows ever on a 'Premium' service, and you can't even tell what the hell is going on in the scenes because of the awful streaming quality. Extremely unfortunate.
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post #22223 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 04:45 PM
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I already had HBO NOW and the GOT episode last night was virtually unwatchable. I paid the $15 for HBO through Amazon Prime hoping to see an improvement, and honestly it was only marginally better on my LG B6. Waste of $15 for me (I had already used the free 7-day trial a while back). If I didn't have to worry about spoilers I'd be waiting for Season 8 to come out on blu-ray. Final season of one of the biggest shows ever on a 'Premium' service, and you can't even tell what the hell is going on in the scenes because of the awful streaming quality. Extremely unfortunate.
Just ran a test and keep in mind the average video bitrate will stabilize over time, so I am more focused on peak bitrate testing the same first episode of this season running up until the same point to get the average bitrate sample:

HBO Go
Average Video Bitrate: 5.5Mbps
Peak Video Birate 9.01mbps
Audio: 384kbps AC-3


DirecTV Now On Demand
Average Video bitrate: 8.09mbps
Peak Video Bitrate: 8.87mbps
Audio: 384kbps AC-3


Amazon Prime
Average Video Bitrate: 8.93Mbps
Peak Video Birate 13.97mbps
Audio: 192kbps E-AC-3


Looks like Amazon is the leader of the pack as far as peak and average bit rate in the video section and while it is using lower bitrate for audio, it is using the much more efficient E-AC-3 codec over AC-3 on DirecTV Now On Demand and the HBO Go app.

As far as the quality of the latest episode, I heard it was pretty dire everywhere because these are still low bitrates and the episode was mastered at very low luminance levels exacerbating compression artifacts especially in very dark sections of the screen.
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post #22224 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Just ran a test and keep in mind the average video bitrate will stabilize over time, so I am more focused on peak bitrate testing the same first episode of this season running up until the same point to get the average bitrate sample:

HBO Go
Average Video Bitrate: 5.5Mbps
Peak Video Birate 9.01mbps
Audio: 384kbps AC-3

DirecTV Now On Demand
Average Video bitrate: 8.09mbps
Peak Video Bitrate: 8.87mbps
Audio: 384kbps AC-3

Amazon Prime
Average Video Bitrate: 8.93Mbps
Peak Video Birate 13.97mbps
Audio: 192kbps E-AC-3

Looks like Amazon is the leader of the pack as far as peak and average bit rate in the video section and while it is using lower bitrate for audio, it is using the much more efficient E-AC-3 codec over AC-3 on DirecTV Now On Demand and the HBO Go app.

As far as the quality of the latest episode, I heard it was pretty dire everywhere because these are still low bitrates and the episode was mastered at very low luminance levels exacerbating compression artifacts especially in very dark sections of the screen.
Awesome, thanks for the objective data! Another advantage as some others have mentioned on the Apple TV 4K is that match frame rate should work in in the Amazon Prime app unlike HBO Go/Now (not sure about Direct TV). Amazon Prime is clearly the best option then, although there is obviously room for improvement.
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post #22225 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post
I already had HBO NOW and the GOT episode last night was virtually unwatchable. I paid the $15 for HBO through Amazon Prime hoping to see an improvement, and honestly it was only marginally better on my LG B6. Waste of $15 for me (I had already used the free 7-day trial a while back). If I didn't have to worry about spoilers I'd be waiting for Season 8 to come out on blu-ray. Final season of one of the biggest shows ever on a 'Premium' service, and you can't even tell what the hell is going on in the scenes because of the awful streaming quality. Extremely unfortunate.

Have you tried buying an episode from iTunes or vudu, I did that with the walking dead and the video and audio is soooo much better

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post #22226 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 04:58 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the objective data! Another advantage as some others have mentioned on the Apple TV 4K is that match frame rate should work in in the Amazon Prime app unlike HBO Go/Now (not sure about Direct TV). Amazon Prime is clearly the best option then, although there is obviously room for improvement.
Oh yes, good callout! You can see in my screenshots that frame rate matching is being honored in the Prime screenshot whereas it is not in the DirecTV Now and HBO app as they are outputting 60Hz.

Pretty sad that the company that produces the show has the weakest delivery of their content in every regard...
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post #22227 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 05:00 PM
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Have you tried buying an episode from iTunes or vudu, I did that with the walking dead and the video and audio is soooo much better
Not to stray too off topic, but I didn't even realize that was an option. I still just can't justify buying digital movies though. If I'm going to 'own' a movie or TV series, I want it in the highest quality possible (i.e., blu-ray). I'll end up buying the blu-ray when it's available, ripping it to my NAS, and watching it in Infuse. A bit more work but worth it IMO
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post #22228 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Wow, that's nuts. Never heard of such a thing.

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It’s a standard troubleshooting procedure for Denon/Marantz and is included in their guides.
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post #22229 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
not in the DirecTV Now and HBO app as they are outputting 60Hz.
My HBOGO is sending 24fps.


I see the same relative numbers but, watching the end of S2E8 the steady state is about 10% better not the 75% improvement the indicated peak would suggest.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #22230 of 23716 Old 04-29-2019, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
Then I remembered a little tidbit about issues with the HDMI inputs that are far away physically on the back of the Denon AVR from the HDMI out to the display
...
Just wanted to post in case anyone else ran into the same issue.

This is a (sadly) well known defect in some Denon units and it applies to all sources not just the ATV. I say defect because it's not consistent across or within models. Either the chip company failed Q/C or Denon didn't understand the layout limitations.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
UDP-203/ATV4K(6,2)/X3500/LG C8
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