Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 765 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22921 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 07:19 AM
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Settings changed!?

Last night we used the TV app to watch an iTunes-purchased movie, and at our "intermission" I looked at settings and discovered they had changed! What had been carefully set to 4K SDR and Match Range & Frame Rate were now 4K HDR and Matching Off! No wonder the movie looked a little faded. What could cause these settings to change on their own? AFAIK the only apps I had used prior to this were Amazon and Infuse, maybe YouTube--could another app or movie cause my ATV4K to change settings?

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post #22922 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Howlinskogge View Post
Hello!

Since christmas i have turned off match framerate on my Apple tv 4k because of audio delay problems (as mentioned above). The device have been in 4k 50 hz and have Dynamic range turned on and i haven't noticed any audio delay problems since. Yesterday i watched an HDR movie and tought that the picture was a little bit dul, not the punchy picture i have gotten used to. When i swtiched on the Match Framerate option the colors became much more "punchy" and the HDR effect was stunning.

When switching match framerate to on and off the problem continues to occur. Its night and day in contrast and color. I have problably been watching pretty innacurate colors in HDR mode for a while..

Shouldn't the option Match Framerate on the Apple tv 4K only control the frame rate? And not any settings with the picture? Like color or contrast?
I have an LG Oled55C7 - Denon AVR-X2500H - Apple tv 4k. The movies are played with infuse.
I'm going to take a guess that you are running the ATV 4K and other sources through the Denon - basically using the Denon for source switching. According to the specs on Denon's website, the X2500H's HDMI scalers only support 4K:30/25/24. The forced 50Hz signal exceeded the parameters of the HDMI chipset; which essentially stripped out the HDR metadata causing the faded colors. Since most content is mastered at 30/25/24 (HDR or SDR), setting Match Frame rate ON is going to be your best option.

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx2500h

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #22923 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Last night we used the TV app to watch an iTunes-purchased movie, and at our "intermission" I looked at settings and discovered they had changed! What had been carefully set to 4K SDR and Match Range & Frame Rate were now 4K HDR and Matching Off! No wonder the movie looked a little faded. What could cause these settings to change on their own? AFAIK the only apps I had used prior to this were Amazon and Infuse, maybe YouTube--could another app or movie cause my ATV4K to change settings?

The apps on the ATV app store are curated, and I doubt that Apple would knowingly allow any app to make video settings changes - especially their own iTunes app.

I'm thinking that someone made those changes without your knowledge and is denying culpability, (lol) or a configuration/preferences file has become corrupted so that any settings changes will not stay put. In that case, a Reset is probably in order.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #22924 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I'm going to take a guess that you are running the ATV 4K and other sources through the Denon - basically using the Denon for source switching. According to the specs on Denon's website, the X2500H's HDMI scalers only support 4K:30/25/24. The forced 50Hz signal exceeded the parameters of the HDMI chipset; which essentially stripped out the HDR metadata causing the faded colors. Since most content is mastered at 30/25/24 (HDR or SDR), setting Match Frame rate ON is going to be your best option.

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx2500h
Those scaler capabilities only matter for upscaling lower resolution content to 4K. It's basically saying the AVR itself can upscale lower resolution content to 4K at up to 30Hz. The X2500H fully supports passthrough of 4K HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision up to 60Hz.
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post #22925 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Last night we used the TV app to watch an iTunes-purchased movie, and at our "intermission" I looked at settings and discovered they had changed! What had been carefully set to 4K SDR and Match Range & Frame Rate were now 4K HDR and Matching Off! No wonder the movie looked a little faded. What could cause these settings to change on their own? AFAIK the only apps I had used prior to this were Amazon and Infuse, maybe YouTube--could another app or movie cause my ATV4K to change settings?



The only time I’ve seen that was when “Reset Video Settings” was selected.


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post #22926 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The apps on the ATV app store are curated, and I doubt that Apple would knowingly allow any app to make video settings changes - especially their own iTunes app. I'm thinking that someone made those changes without your knowledge and is denying culpability, (lol) or a configuration/preferences file has become corrupted so that any settings changes will not stay put. In that case, a Reset is probably in order.
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
The only time I’ve seen that was when “Reset Video Settings” was selected.
Thanks guys, I guess I will first try just checking the settings before each session, then do a Reset if I notice any future anomalies.

Another thing I need to pay closer attention to is the PQ. In this case I noticed at the start that the movie seemed darker than I would have preferred, though I let it slide until intermission thinking it was an old movie so... Now that I've seen an SDR movie the ATV tried to present as HDR (at least I assume that was the problem) I know to stop & check it before continuing.

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post #22927 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jwort93 View Post
Those scaler capabilities only matter for upscaling lower resolution content to 4K. It's basically saying the AVR itself can upscale lower resolution content to 4K at up to 30Hz. The X2500H fully supports passthrough of 4K HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision up to 60Hz.
I didn't see that anywhere in the specs (4K HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision up to 60Hz), but I'll take your word for it.

Perhaps you have a better explanation for @Howlinskogge re: faded HDR colors? HDMI cable maybe? Frame rate shouldn't be the cause if the Denon supports up to 60Hz everything.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #22928 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I didn't see that anywhere in the specs (4K HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision up to 60Hz), but I'll take your word for it.

Perhaps you have a better explanation for @Howlinskogge re: faded HDR colors? HDMI cable maybe? Frame rate shouldn't be the cause if the Denon supports up to 60Hz everything.
Description under the "Latest HDMI Specs" features section on that page: "The latest HDMI specs for the best home theater experience. All eight HDMI inputs — and two HDMI outputs — feature HDCP 2.2 support that lets you enjoy copy-protected content uninhibited. Watch movies and shows with 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Color sub-sampling, Dolby Vision, High Dynamic Range (HDR10), Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support for exceptional color, clarity and contrast."

I also own the prior year version of that receiver, the X2400H, which is nearly functionally identical, and I can confirm what I said earlier about it's capabilities is correct.

EDIT: My previous version of this message was referring to the wrong post. As for the problem @Howlinskogge is experiencing, he might need to set the HDMI mode to enhanced in the receiver settings (Setup -> Video -> 4k Signal Format -> Set to Enhanced). I would also double check that the HDMI input on the TV has HDMI Ultra HD Deep Color turned on, for the input that the receiver is connected to (Long press settings button on remote -> General -> HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color -> Verify receiver input is toggled on).
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post #22929 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 10:09 AM
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Refresh of these survey questions re audio-sync issues. (Responses so far greatly appreciated!)





So here's two specific jump-off questions. In this context an "audio-sync problem" means sync values that change with different video/audio formats. (A single consistent sync offset value is not considered a "problem".)



1. Setup: ATV4K > AVR > LG OLED (please specify model). Is there anyone who has no audio-sync problems? If so which AVR are you using?



2. Setup: ATV4K > AVR > Sony OLED A9F (or A8F or A1E). Is there anyone who has no audio-sync problems? If so which AVR are you using? (Curious if the Sony OLEDs have less sync issues than the LG OLEDs?)
Anecdotally, LG OLEDs have a lot more trouble with video delay lip sync issues than other brands. All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats. You don’t need a survey for this - just read the previous 200 pages.

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post #22930 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally, LG OLEDs have a lot more trouble with video delay lip sync issues than other brands. All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats. You don’t need a survey for this - just read the previous 200 pages.


This is...false. Complete nonsense.
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post #22931 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jwort93 View Post
Description under the "Latest HDMI Specs" features section on that page: "The latest HDMI specs for the best home theater experience. All eight HDMI inputs — and two HDMI outputs — feature HDCP 2.2 support that lets you enjoy copy-protected content uninhibited. Watch movies and shows with 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Color sub-sampling, Dolby Vision, High Dynamic Range (HDR10), Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support for exceptional color, clarity and contrast."

I also own the prior year version of that receiver, the X2400H, which is nearly functionally identical, and I can confirm what I said earlier about it's capabilities is correct.

EDIT: My previous version of this message was referring to the wrong post. As for the problem @Howlinskogge is experiencing, he might need to set the HDMI mode to enhanced in the receiver settings (Setup -> Video -> 4k Signal Format -> Set to Enhanced). I would also double check that the HDMI input on the TV has HDMI Ultra HD Deep Color turned on, for the input that the receiver is connected to (Long press settings button on remote -> General -> HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color -> Verify receiver input is toggled on).
Yes i am running the ATV 4K and other sources through the Denon and using the Denon for source switching. And as said above the X2500H fully supports passthrough of 4K HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision up to 60Hz. The HDMI mode is in enhanced mode on my AVR and the LG HDMI is on HDMI Ultra HD Deep Color. I have the same HDMI-cabels in my setup and my other devices dont have any problems with HDR or dolby vision (PS4 Pro and Xbox one). The movies i watch is in HDR. The problem dosent seem to occur in Itunes when watching a movie in Dolby vision..


As @sonoftumble said, i also think its best to have match framrate set to on since i get the best picture settings in HDR. The only problem then is that i get issues with the audio/lip sync.
110 ms delay seems to work for me pretty well at the moment.


I just find this problem with the HDR and "match framrate" to be very very odd and was hoping that someone could explain the issue

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post #22932 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
This is...false. Complete nonsense.
Anecdotally it’s not. Nearly every time someone complains about delay that gets worse with DoVi, they have an LG OLED. But again - ANECDOTALLY - it could just be that it appears that way due to popularity of the displays
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post #22933 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally, LG OLEDs have a lot more trouble with video delay lip sync issues than other brands. All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats. You don’t need a survey for this - just read the previous 200 pages.

Not true. I have an older LG LCD that has had zero issues with any source (cable, BD, ATV4) as far as lip sync. In fact, before we moved, and it was the primary tv, television was OTA only. I have an LG 65 C8 upstairs that also has absolutely no issues at all with any source (cable, UHD/BD, ATV4k). Both use a Yamaha receiver (older and newer models) as the hub. Both systems are hardwired to the router. All tv's can have lip sync issues but to say that LG is the worse is just plain nonsense. DV, HDR it doesn't make any difference. No lip sync issues.

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post #22934 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 11:46 AM
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Not true. I have an older LG LCD that has had zero issues with any source (cable, BD, ATV4) as far as lip sync. In fact, before we moved, and it was the primary tv, television was OTA only. I have an LG 65 C8 upstairs that also has absolutely no issues at all with any source (cable, UHD/BD, ATV4k). Both use a Yamaha receiver (older and newer models) as the hub. Both systems are hardwired to the router. All tv's can have lip sync issues but to say that LG is the worse is just plain nonsense.
Clearly reading comprehension is a problem with some of you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal

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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally it’s not. Nearly every time someone complains about delay that gets worse with DoVi, they have an LG OLED. But again - ANECDOTALLY - it could just be that it appears that way due to popularity of the displays


I would guess it’s the latter since they have been in attainable sales for a while now. I haven’t had any lip sync issues that I can attribute to my TV (LG B7).
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Clearly reading comprehension is a problem with some of you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal

Anecdotally aside, you clearly state that "All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats." No need to be rude.
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Clearly reading comprehension is a problem with some of you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal


Your argument loses a bit of steam when you provide the definition of a word you have just misused...


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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
Refresh of these survey questions re audio-sync issues. (Responses so far greatly appreciated!)


So here's two specific jump-off questions. In this context an "audio-sync problem" means sync values that change with different video/audio formats. (A single consistent sync offset value is not considered a "problem".)

1. Setup: ATV4K > AVR > LG OLED (please specify model). Is there anyone who has no audio-sync problems? If so which AVR are you using?

2. Setup: ATV4K > AVR > Sony OLED A9F (or A8F or A1E). Is there anyone who has no audio-sync problems? If so which AVR are you using? (Curious if the Sony OLEDs have less sync issues than the LG OLEDs?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally, LG OLEDs have a lot more trouble with video delay lip sync issues than other brands. All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats. You don’t need a survey for this - just read the previous 200 pages.
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
This is...false. Complete nonsense.
@Otto Pylot , It's not just when LG OLEDs are paired with the ATV4K that this issue with audio sync when playing back DoVi content occurs, here's another example (read on in the rest of the thread, if you're interested in finding out the outcome in that case).
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It's not just when LG OLDEDs are paired with the ATV4K that this issue with audio sync when playing back DoVi content occurs, here's another example (read on in the rest of the thread, if you're interested in finding out the outcome in that case).
I'm not saying it doesn't exist but it's certainly not all LG OLED's.

ATV4k -> Yamaha A-780 -> 65 C8. No audio sync issues with any content.

UHD/BD -> Yamaha A-780 -> 65 C8. No audio sync issues with any content.

Comcast local HDTV stations only -> 65 C8 -> optical to Yamaha A-780. No audio sync issues.
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post

@Otto Pylot , It's not just when LG OLDEDs are paired with the ATV4K that this issue with audio sync when playing back DoVi content occurs, here's another example (read on in the rest of the thread, if you're interested in finding out the outcome in that case).


I also have an oppo 203 and no sync issues there either.

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My atv4k works just fine with my Denon X4200.
I have Denon X4200 also and I am thinking about getting an Apple TV 4K. My tv is a Samsung KS8000. What TV do you use? Also, you have no audio sync issues with any content, HDR, SDR 1080, 4k?
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post #22942 of 23752 Old 06-01-2019, 08:52 PM
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Anyone else think Amazon’s HDR stuff looks dull on the Apple TV app? I see a lot more color using my built in (LG) app, using the exact same picture settings. Have tested it with Grand Tour and Good Omens.
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Anyone else think Amazon’s HDR stuff looks dull on the Apple TV app? I see a lot more color using my built in (LG) app, using the exact same picture settings. Have tested it with Grand Tour and Good Omens.
I haven't noticed but I usually don't use the ATV4K device for watching Amazon content. I usually use my Nvidia Shield. For instance, I'm currently watching the latest season of "Bosch" and it looks very good on the Shield. I can try the ATV4K the next time I watch an episode of "Bosch" to see if I notice any difference.

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post #22944 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 02:28 AM
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Is Apple TV 4th + Infuse 6 Pro able to play multichannel SACD and DSD music?
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post #22945 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 03:35 AM
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Watch next is broken on Apple TV4K if you are in the UK. if you use it to continue to play iTunes Movies on an OLED TV it will result in flashing during dark scenes. As this is not a USA issue it might not get fixed for along time. I reported it to Apple feedback website.
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post #22946 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by karipu View Post
Is Apple TV 4th + Infuse 6 Pro able to play multichannel SACD and DSD music?
Good question. ... I for one don't know. Maybe ask in the infuse forum. I have a single SACD but lots of High Resulition Audio. I believe infuse does fine with multi channel high res audio but I think any source will be converted to PCM before leaving the ATV4K because it won't bit stream DSD or other formats like DTS MA.
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post #22947 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally, LG OLEDs have a lot more trouble with video delay lip sync issues than other brands. All will have some when used with an AVR/soundbar in between, but LG OLEDs are worse and seem to have most problems with inconsistencies with different formats. You don’t need a survey for this - just read the previous 200 pages.
Well, that explains my issue then! The lip-sync issues on my B6 can be severe, particularly when renting a movie in iTunes. Weirdly, I've never had an issue when using Vudu.
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post #22948 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
This is...false. Complete nonsense.
As one of the people that has issues with an LG E6 and AVR and the issue I can assure you that the LGs are far more prone to it than other brands when using DV and there is a definite pocket of people with older LG OLEDs and DV liip sync issues.



So I disagree with your disagreeing.
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post #22949 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I'm not saying it doesn't exist but it's certainly not all LG OLED's.

ATV4k -> Yamaha A-780 -> 65 C8. No audio sync issues with any content.

UHD/BD -> Yamaha A-780 -> 65 C8. No audio sync issues with any content.

Comcast local HDTV stations only -> 65 C8 -> optical to Yamaha A-780. No audio sync issues.
I have a 65 C7. No audio sync issues with any content.

Recently, I stopped using my AVR as a video source switcher. This was not due to audio sync issues associated with my Pioneer SC-99.
Quite simply, it doesn't pass Dolby Vision. So now I have a 4x2 matrix with Output 1 going direct to the TV, and Output 2 going to the AVR. I get to keep one of the last true Pioneer's for a few more years!

Anecdotally, it appears that complaints regarding audio sync issues are isolated to 6 series OLED's?

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #22950 of 23752 Old 06-02-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
This is...false. Complete nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Anecdotally it’s not. Nearly every time someone complains about delay that gets worse with DoVi, they have an LG OLED. But again - ANECDOTALLY - it could just be that it appears that way due to popularity of the displays
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I have a 65 C7. No audio sync issues with any content.

Recently, I stopped using my AVR as a video source switcher. This was not due to audio sync issues associated with my Pioneer SC-99.
Quite simply, it doesn't pass Dolby Vision. So now I have a 4x2 matrix with Output 1 going direct to the TV, and Output 2 going to the AVR. I get to keep one of the last true Pioneer's for a few more years!

Anecdotally, it appears that complaints regarding audio sync issues are isolated to 6 series OLED's?
I bought a B7 and returned it because the audio sync was bad. Replaced with Sony and haven't had any issues. Same sources.
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