Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 184 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5491 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBullwyf View Post
Have been playing with my new Apple TV 4K 64GB for a few hours. I really want to like it. Here are some first impressions.





(-) Plex app on Apple TV is a disappointment. Does not play any of my HDR files in HDR (TV is in HDR more of course, but colors are washed out). Secondly, all 4K files take forever to start streaming on Plex. They play beautifully and instantly via the Shield. My Plex server is a Mac on the local network, not on the Shield, so Shield has no configuration advantage here. Hopefully the Plex app will be updated soon for proper 4K/HDR support on the Apple TV. The app currently fails when playing files that have ATMOS sound encoding. Just aborts playing those right away.



Please forgive any non-clarity in my points above. I'll gladly clarify.
I would assume that a Plex update is days away.

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post #5492 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Venicenerd View Post
I just sent an email to Tim (understand that some Apple PR person will read it):



———

Hi Tim,



I just purchased the new Apple TV 4K and am heartbroken to learn that I will need to return it. The Apple TV forces all content into HDR instead of dynamically switching between HDR/Dolby Vision/SDR depending on the content type. I love movies. I want to see them the way the creators intended.



I am also disheartened that Apple TV does not support Dolby Atmos and Bitstream audio support. Last but not least I truly dislike that Apple TV does not natively switch Hz depending on a movie’s frame rate. I understand that some TVs flicker while they switch modes and that this is not very “Apple” but at least give your movie enthusiasts an option to turn this on.



I am an incredible Apple fan boy. I have owned every single iPhone. Every iPad. My entire company uses Macs. I am all in on HomeKit. But in my living I now have an NVIDIA Shield. I hate having an Android device in my household. I really, truly, hate it. The only thing I disliked more was an Apple TV that forces HDR on all my content, doesn’t permit native frame rate switching, and doesn’t support Dolby Atmos and bitstream audio.



I hope that Apple will reconsider their approach and allow users more control over how their content is displayed.

———



I think we all need to make a lot of noise for Apple to make a change. This is not a mistake. Apple has intended the Apple TV to work this way because they think it’s the way to go. Apple as a company seldomly changes course once they believe their way is the right way.


Here my email:


I just wanted to make sure that your team is aware of a design flaw with the new Apple TV 4K. Let me explain.

When playing any 4K HDR material on my Sony A1E OLED, the picture is absolutely amazing! But....

When I play any 1080P SDR content (Hulu, iTunes, etc) instead of just passing along the original 1080P SDR signal the new Apple TV 4K up-converts it to 4K HDR. The two issues with this are unfortunately the Apple TV upscaling from 1080P 4K is not as good as the Sony a A1E OLED’s upscaling and more importantly when the AppleTV converts from SDR to HDR the resulting picture is very dark and just bad. Right now my work around is anytime I want to watch something on my Apple TV 4K I have to find the content, determine whether it is 4K HDR or 1080P SDR and then exit out, go to my settings and change the format setting to the appropriate matching format of the content.

I know I am not alone with this issue it is being discussed extensively on a few online forums as well. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...rt-4k-hdr.html

What I would like to know is whether or not you are planning to add a “Native” setting to the new Apple TV 4K so it will simply pass 1080P SDR as 1080P SDR and 4K HDR as 4K HDR?

I’m hoping I can receive a response to my question while I am within my return window for my Apple TV 4K. I don’t mind manually switching between different content while waiting for permanent “Native” setting solution. Please save me from going back to the Android tvOS of my Sony TV, yuk!

Thank you for all the great products that you make, my wife and I own all of them and love them!!! I will definitely be pre-ordering my iPhone X on release night at midnight.

Thank you very much for your time.

Dan


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post #5493 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venicenerd View Post
I just sent an email to Tim (understand that some Apple PR person will read it):

———
Hi Tim,

I just purchased the new Apple TV 4K and am heartbroken to learn that I will need to return it. The Apple TV forces all content into HDR instead of dynamically switching between HDR/Dolby Vision/SDR depending on the content type. I love movies. I want to see them the way the creators intended.

I am also disheartened that Apple TV does not support Dolby Atmos and Bitstream audio support. Last but not least I truly dislike that Apple TV does not natively switch Hz depending on a movie’s frame rate. I understand that some TVs flicker while they switch modes and that this is not very “Apple” but at least give your movie enthusiasts an option to turn this on.

I am an incredible Apple fan boy. I have owned every single iPhone. Every iPad. My entire company uses Macs. I am all in on HomeKit. But in my living I now have an NVIDIA Shield. I hate having an Android device in my household. I really, truly, hate it. The only thing I disliked more was an Apple TV that forces HDR on all my content, doesn’t permit native frame rate switching, and doesn’t support Dolby Atmos and bitstream audio.

I hope that Apple will reconsider their approach and allow users more control over how their content is displayed.
———

I think we all need to make a lot of noise for Apple to make a change. This is not a mistake. Apple has intended the Apple TV to work this way because they think it’s the way to go. Apple as a company seldomly changes course once they believe their way is the right way.
Glad you sent the letter. And I agree with your last statement. I also am a long time Apple fan. But I'm now beginning to get discouraged with Apple as they seem very stubborn, as you mentioned, and really seem to want to "dumb down" their hardware and software.
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post #5494 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBullwyf View Post

When Apple TV is attached to Denon, it permanently leaves the Denon output (hence the picture setting for HDMI input on TV where Denon is attached) to HDR. So if I then try to play the Shield, which is also coming via the Denon, it is hard coded to HDR. When attached via the Denon, HDMI CEC stuff works well between the Apple TV, TV, and Denon. For example, I can control the Apple TV using the Sony TV remote, and I can change volume of Denon from Apple TV remote (via HDMI). But since it "takes over" the Denon output to be always HDR even for the other devices attached to the Denon (or rather leaves the picture setting on TV's HDMI input for the Denon's permanently to HDR), I cannot have this config. Even turning the TV and receiver off and on does not let go of the HDR mode on that input.
Does this only occur when HDMI-CEC is enabled? My ATV5 is connected through an AVR-X6300H to an LG 2016 OLED. I don't have a constant HDR-10 or DoVi flag being sent to the display, but HDMI-CEC is disabled in all components.

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post #5495 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 04:54 PM
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Here’s a tip for quickly changing the resolution:
Double tap the “TV” button on the remote to bring up the app switcher and slide over to settings and select the output you want. Then double tap again to go back to what you were watching.

It’s so fast and easy, it’ll hold me over until everything I want to watch is available in 4k DV.

I’m mostly using 4k sdr 60hz and 24 or 30 DV for actual DV content.

As for Atmos, for some reason I expect Apple’s solution to be encoding DD+ like they do now if you select DD.


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post #5496 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergts2207 View Post
Unfortunately it looks to me like the ATV 4K will only output 8-bit color when set to 4K [email protected] Last night I was trying out some HDR content with my new ATV 4K by watching The Revenant on iTunes. I set my ATV to 4K [email protected] Hz, where the only chroma option available at that setting is 4:2:2. At around 35:12 into the movie I noticed obvious banding in two back to back shots of the sky. I changed my video setting to 4K [email protected] Hz and neither 4:2:2 nor 4:2:0 chroma showed this banding. Am I right that at 4K [email protected] the ATV is only going to output 8-bit color? Hopefully others can either confirm or refute what I found. If true, that means people will have to choose between dealing with either 3:2 pulldown judder or 8-bit color banding.


Have you figured anything out with this?


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post #5497 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post
Here’s a tip for quickly changing the resolution:
Double tap the “TV” button on the remote to bring up the app switcher and slide over to settings and select the output you want. Then double tap again to go back to what you were watching.

It’s so fast and easy, it’ll hold me over until everything I want to watch is available in 4k DV.

I’m mostly using 4k sdr 60hz and 24 or 30 DV for actual DV content.

As for Atmos, for some reason I expect Apple’s solution to be encoding DD+ like they do now if you select DD.


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Great tip!
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post #5498 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
Have you figured anything out with this?


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A couple of restarts of everything including the Apple TV has resolved this issue, so I am back to attaching Apple TV to Denon and have full HDMI-CEC. Thanks!
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post #5499 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBullwyf View Post
Have been playing with my new Apple TV 4K 64GB for a few hours. I really want to like it. Here are some first impressions.


(-) When Apple TV is attached to Denon, it permanently leaves the Denon output (hence the picture setting for HDMI input on TV where Denon is attached) to HDR. So if I then try to play the Shield, which is also coming via the Denon, it is hard coded to HDR. When attached via the Denon, HDMI CEC stuff works well between the Apple TV, TV, and Denon. For example, I can control the Apple TV using the Sony TV remote, and I can change volume of Denon from Apple TV remote (via HDMI). But since it "takes over" the Denon output to be always HDR even for the other devices attached to the Denon (or rather leaves the picture setting on TV's HDMI input for the Denon's permanently to HDR), I cannot have this config. Even turnign the TV and receiver off and on does not let go of the HDR mode on that input. Bizarre thing number 1.

Please forgive any non-clarity in my points above. I'll gladly clarify.
UPDATE: This issue is now resolved. A couple of restarts of everything including the Apple TV has resolved this issue, so I am back to attaching Apple TV to Denon and have full HDMI-CEC. I know what to do if it happens again!
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post #5500 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post
Does this only occur when HDMI-CEC is enabled? My ATV5 is connected through an AVR-X6300H to an LG 2016 OLED. I don't have a constant HDR-10 or DoVi flag being sent to the display, but HDMI-CEC is disabled in all components.


I too do not see the issue with my x4300h. Mine is configured similarly to yours but CEC should not have anything to to with the HDR modes.


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post #5501 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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My experience with Apple TV 4k directly connected to Sony XBR75X940D (Supports 4k HDR10):

- SDR to HDR conversion is horrible. Blacks become dark gray, colors fade and loses sharpness. After switching to 4k SDR things improved. 1080p to 4k conversion is still not as good as Sony's but it's not bad. It's the SDR -> HDR conversion that ruins everything.

- I rented Alien Covenant from 4K HDR section.. it actually looks really bad!! Looks like 1080P SDR to 4K HDR upscaled version. I also have this movie in 1080p and playing the 1080p version via Android TV's Kodi app is much better! I know everyone has been complaining about non 4k HDR content but I don't understand what is happening here. Native 4k HDR10 content looked really bad via iTunes.. Unless rentals are not HDR? Are previews in 4K HDR? Because they also look bad.

PS: HDMI cable is high speed. Set to 4:2:2. Gigabyte enternet connection with 100+mbps up/down tested via Speed test app on ATV.
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So what’s going to have a bigger effect on quality. Loosing DV or Dolby Digital Plus? One setup I can get DV with regular DD. Another I can do HDR10 with full quality audio.


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post #5503 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by hkhan View Post
My experience with Apple TV 4k directly connected to Sony XBR75X940D (Supports 4k HDR10):

- SDR to HDR conversion is horrible. Blacks become dark gray, colors fade and loses sharpness. After switching to 4k SDR things improved. 1080p to 4k conversion is still not as good as Sony's but it's not bad. It's the SDR -> HDR conversion that ruins everything.

- I rented Alien Covenant from 4K HDR section.. it actually looks really bad!! Looks like 1080P SDR to 4K HDR upscaled version. I also have this movie in 1080p and playing the 1080p version via Android TV's Kodi app is much better! I know everyone has been complaining about non 4k HDR content but I don't understand what is happening here. Native 4k HDR10 content looked really bad via iTunes.. Unless rentals are not HDR? Are previews in 4K HDR? Because they also look bad.

PS: HDMI cable is high speed. Set to 4:2:2. Gigabyte enternet connection with 100+mbps up/down tested via Speed test app on ATV.
Hey,

When the HDR is detected on my Sony and I select picture settings, the mode is greyed out as HDR Video, no Cinema Home or Pro options. Is this normal? This is the first 4k source hooked to the TV.
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post #5504 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkhan View Post
My experience with Apple TV 4k directly connected to Sony XBR75X940D (Supports 4k HDR10):

- SDR to HDR conversion is horrible. Blacks become dark gray, colors fade and loses sharpness. After switching to 4k SDR things improved. 1080p to 4k conversion is still not as good as Sony's but it's not bad. It's the SDR -> HDR conversion that ruins everything.

- I rented Alien Covenant from 4K HDR section.. it actually looks really bad!! Looks like 1080P SDR to 4K HDR upscaled version. I also have this movie in 1080p and playing the 1080p version via Android TV's Kodi app is much better! I know everyone has been complaining about non 4k HDR content but I don't understand what is happening here. Native 4k HDR10 content looked really bad via iTunes.. Unless rentals are not HDR? Are previews in 4K HDR? Because they also look bad.

PS: HDMI cable is high speed. Set to 4:2:2. Gigabyte enternet connection with 100+mbps up/down tested via Speed test app on ATV.
Not sure what your settings are at but i had no such experience with alien covenant. 60hz DV looked superb. As a matter of fact all hdr films in itunes looks fantastic. Kingsman, Life of Pie and Prometheus to name a few.
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post #5505 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 06:36 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkhan View Post
My experience with Apple TV 4k directly connected to Sony XBR75X940D (Supports 4k HDR10):



- SDR to HDR conversion is horrible. Blacks become dark gray, colors fade and loses sharpness. After switching to 4k SDR things improved. 1080p to 4k conversion is still not as good as Sony's but it's not bad. It's the SDR -> HDR conversion that ruins everything.



- I rented Alien Covenant from 4K HDR section.. it actually looks really bad!! Looks like 1080P SDR to 4K HDR upscaled version. I also have this movie in 1080p and playing the 1080p version via Android TV's Kodi app is much better! I know everyone has been complaining about non 4k HDR content but I don't understand what is happening here. Native 4k HDR10 content looked really bad via iTunes.. Unless rentals are not HDR? Are previews in 4K HDR? Because they also look bad.



PS: HDMI cable is high speed. Set to 4:2:2. Gigabyte enternet connection with 100+mbps up/down tested via Speed test app on ATV.


Reboot the Sony my initial reaction was similar once the set rebooted everything was peachy

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post #5506 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 06:50 PM
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Making some noise, feel free to join in!

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post #5507 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rick98761 View Post
So what’s going to have a bigger effect on quality. Loosing DV or Dolby Digital Plus? One setup I can get DV with regular DD. Another I can do HDR10 with full quality audio.


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No right answer but for well mastered DV I would want DV over HDR10 any day.


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post #5508 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rick98761 View Post
So what’s going to have a bigger effect on quality. Loosing DV or Dolby Digital Plus? One setup I can get DV with regular DD. Another I can do HDR10 with full quality audio.


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Part of your answer will come from what kind of audio setup you have. If you’re using the TV speakers, a sound bar or an HTiB, then I’d go DV, no question. If you’re using a proper 5.1 or higher setup, it would probably be a tossup for me.

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post #5509 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 08:12 PM
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Part of your answer will come from what kind of audio setup you have. If you’re using the TV speakers, a sound bar or an HTiB, then I’d go DV, no question. If you’re using a proper 5.1 or higher setup, it would probably be a tossup for me.


That’s what makes it hard. I have a pretty good audio setup. 5.1 w/2 Atmos speakers. Big towers up front.


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post #5510 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 08:28 PM
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Hey,

When the HDR is detected on my Sony and I select picture settings, the mode is greyed out as HDR Video, no Cinema Home or Pro options. Is this normal? This is the first 4k source hooked to the TV.
Yes I believe it's normal. Mine are disabled too.

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Not sure what your settings are at but i had no such experience with alien covenant. 60hz DV looked superb. As a matter of fact all hdr films in itunes looks fantastic. Kingsman, Life of Pie and Prometheus to name a few.
Thanks. My TV only supports HDR10. Actually just noticed that after renting it, it doesn't have HDR10 or DV log.. says SDH?

Quote:
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Reboot the Sony my initial reaction was similar once the set rebooted everything was peachy
Tried it once. Will try again now.. Notice my screen is randomly flickering.. may be a bad (new) cable...?

Question for HDR10 only TV folks.. do you see DOLBY VISION logo for movies in iTunes Movies and Netflix? That's what I see instead of HDR10. Is that just a UI glitch or does my ATV5 thinks i have a DV HDR TV and that's why original HDR content looks bad?
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post #5511 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 08:40 PM
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My display has only hdr10 but some movies have the DV logo on the ATV5. I *think* they are playing back in Hdr10. They sure look like it.
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post #5512 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 09:15 PM
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I would assume that a Plex update is days away.
Check the Apple TV Plex forums. The current tvOS.xml file is configured to transcode h265 down to h264 which is slow and loses quality. I expect a server update would fix it but in the meantime I think I saw instructions on plex forums to edit the file manually to fix the problem.
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post #5513 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 09:18 PM
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Just did a quick switch test from my Apple TV 4k to my Oppo 203 with the same movie (alien covenant). The picture is much better on the Oppo and the sound is probably about 2x as loud. The sound is what really kills me on the Apple TV 4k, it is terrible. Nothing has any low end??? I would say its probably 4db-6db lower than any other device. I am not sure why it does this? I heard it was because of Siri and some kind of audio overlay. I am running about 8k-10k watts of subs (4) and a McIntosh MC452 for my fronts, my soundbar in the guest bedroom gets louder now. I will keep it for a few more days, but I don't see myself using this device much longer. The xbox one S destroys this audio wise.


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post #5514 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 09:21 PM
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Just did a quick switch test from my Apple TV 4k to my Oppo 203 with the same movie (alien covenant). The picture is much better on the Oppo and the sound is probably about 2x as loud. The sound is what really kills me on the Apple TV 4k, it is terrible. Nothing has any low end??? I would say its probably 4db-6db lower than any other device. I am not sure why it does this? I heard it was because of Siri and some kind of audio overlay. I am running about 8k-10k watts of subs (4) and a McIntosh MC452 for my fronts, my soundbar in the guest bedroom gets louder now. I will keep it for a few more days, but I don't see myself using this device much longer. The xbox one S destroys this audio wise.


Greg
I believe the audio restrictions / lack of bitsteaming is so Siri can work properly while content is playing. There’s either some sort of volume adjustment when you press the Siri button and/or some other algorithm so Siri knows how to differentiate between what you’re saying and what the tv is playing.
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post #5515 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post
I believe the audio restrictions / lack of bitsteaming is so Siri can work properly while content is playing. There’s either some sort of volume adjustment when you press the Siri button and/or some other algorithm so Siri knows how to differentiate between what you’re saying and what the tv is playing.
Is there a way to do direct audio? I can't enjoy a movie for just the visuals, I need to get the audio as well. Maybe it does compressed audio only?

Greg

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik F18SEs - SB13 Ultra
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Audio:McIntosh C2600 Pre - Marantz SR-8012 -Dual McIntosh 601's- McIntosh MT5 - McIntosh MP100 - Oppo UDP-205 - Panamax M5300PMx2 - Apple TV 4k - BlueSound Node 2
TV: Samsung 75" Q9FN - Sony 75" 940D
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post #5516 of 25534 Old 09-23-2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullwyf View Post
UPDATE: This issue is now resolved. A couple of restarts of everything including the Apple TV has resolved this issue, so I am back to attaching Apple TV to Denon and have full HDMI-CEC. I know what to do if it happens again!
ATVs sometimes need a restart...I had my siri remote (non 4K ATV), freaking out one day, restart the ATV, it was fine. ...same with other issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Is there a way to do direct audio? I can't enjoy a movie for just the visuals, I need to get the audio as well. Maybe it does compressed audio only?

Greg
Apple does not do audio pass thru at this time, someone said MRMC has an app that has worked for the previous ATV for streaming your own ripped content with audio pass thru, but, I'm having a hard time finding this information on their website.

If you're talking about streaming movies from the internet, they pretty much all use DD5.1/DD+ lossy audio. That's what the distributors provide for VOD/streaming content. DD+ can be slightly better than DD, but, none are going to be what you get from a blu-ray, if that is your reference. Atmos is coming down the line, but, most likely going to be the DD+ Atmos, not lossless.
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post #5517 of 25534 Old 09-24-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamende View Post
My Denon X1300W sadly hasnt received an update yet. I tried to plug in my Apple TV to it and enable Dolby Vision. Sadly it didnt work. I bought a new HDMI cable and connected it directly with the TV and now it works. Hopefully the Denon gets an update soon
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Ridiculous that hdmi cables affect functionality.

What a crappy standard.
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Originally Posted by wxchaser View Post
Special thanks to nathan_h, Umenon, and benji888578!

Bought 4K 60Hz 18 Gpbs cables this morning - hooked up ATV5 to LG OLED on HDMI 10, ran audio HDMI from PC on Onkyo TX-NR747 (2016) to LG OLED HDMI 14.

Everything working much better, still have not had much time to play yet, but getting full HDR (need to check out DV settings still on a couple other movies.
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
This cable is not 'premium certified' so may be the source of the problem.

...
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Originally Posted by wxchaser View Post
Yeah - I could have sworn my HDMI cables were good and high speed, but on the ATV5 they weren't working properly - so you were right!
I wonder if the fact ATV puts out LPCM, just adding a little more bandwidth going through those cables shows up flawed cables?

In any case, scratch what I said about cables, apple recommends "DV certified" cables, but, I think just HDMI premium certified, as nathan_h said is the key.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/faq.aspx
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post #5518 of 25534 Old 09-24-2017, 01:08 AM
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I wish there was some official clarification on what happens when DV titles are played on an HDR10 only tv
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post #5519 of 25534 Old 09-24-2017, 01:26 AM
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I wish there was some official clarification on what happens when DV titles are played on an HDR10 only tv
Nothing happens. You get no HDR. It will still be UHD.
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post #5520 of 25534 Old 09-24-2017, 04:58 AM
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Doing some quick testing this morning of speeds via Gigabit Ethernet, and video/audio settings:







Also reprogrammed my Harmony 950 for the Apple TV 4K this morning & working fine.

Last edited by wxchaser; 09-24-2017 at 06:04 AM.
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