Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 252 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7531 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
These may not matter to you but three or four occur to me: More power consumption on LCD/LED TV's, possibly image retention on OLED, and both increased energy consumption and increased lamp wear on projectors.
Sure, if you are leaving the Apple TV idling on the app screen for long periods of time but I don't see that as a popular usage pattern.

I am not sure if the power consumption would be that much higher on the OS screen anyway since it looks the same now between SDR and HDR and doesn't look like the backlighting system on my display is being driven and harder than normal. If there is a power consumption difference, I would suspect it is nominal.

If I had an Apple TV 4K on my OLED, I always avoid leaving any static image present, regardless if it is SDR or HDR, to avoid IR.

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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
(I'm assuming that "accurate" color, grayscale and EOTF don't really matter for the screen savers or home screen, but if those do matter to you, and you have a TV that enters uncalibratable torch mode for HDR sources, I support that might be another reason.)
Now that is a reach!

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post #7532 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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I'm still confused on one point. We know Netflix has a HDR10 and DV stream for it's HDR shows. On the ATV's Netflix app all HDR content shows the DV tag by default. Since my tv doesn't display DV, do we know for a fact if the Netflix app returns Netflix's HDR10 stream or is the ATV using it's algorithm to convert Netflix's DV stream to HDR10?

I'm asking in the case of Stranger Things 2. I've watched the first 2 episodes through my tv's Netflix app as that's the only way I'm sure I'm getting Netflix's HDR10 stream not tampered with.
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post #7533 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Sure, if you are leaving the Apple TV idling on the app screen for long periods of time but I don't see that as a popular usage pattern.

I am not sure if the power consumption would be that much higher on the OS screen anyway since it looks the same now between SDR and HDR and doesn't look like the backlighting system on my display is being driven and harder than normal. If there is a power consumption difference, I would suspect it is nominal.
FWIW - My setup, during the ATV4 days, included a 550VA APC UPS (330Watts). When I switched to ATV5, I had planned to keep the same UPS. But immediately after configuring the ATV5 (with DV HDR as the Video Output), I noticed that every time the screensaver kicked in, the UPS would squeal indicating overdrive. Plugging a Kill-A-Watt quickly confirmed that the HDR screensaver increased power consumption of my 55-inch OLED by 90 watts. I also realized that the factory default of setting the Backlight to 100 for Dolby Vision was the cause. Fortunately, a color re-calibration of my setup yielded a value of 36 for my DV-HDR Backlight setting. This is the same BL value as for SDR and results in only 25 watts of additional power usage (no more squeal from the UPS).
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post #7534 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
I'm still confused on one point. We know Netflix has a HDR10 and DV stream for it's HDR shows. On the ATV's Netflix app all HDR content shows the DV tag by default. Since my tv doesn't display DV, do we know for a fact if the Netflix app returns Netflix's HDR10 stream or is the ATV using it's algorithm to convert Netflix's DV stream to HDR10?

I'm asking in the case of Stranger Things 2. I've watched the first 2 episodes through my tv's Netflix app as that's the only way I'm sure I'm getting Netflix's HDR10 stream not tampered with.
It is pulling them DV stream and using the HDR10 base layer baked into the encode. It is similar to how DTS-HD MA has a DTS Core.
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post #7535 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Unfortunately no, the OS stays in HDR if HDR is enabled.
I am confused. I meant to ask ... if I let it Auto-Switch, the UI should be SDR and the HDR Screensavers should trigger HDR on the TV. Correct? Or, are the Screensavers not really HDR content?
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post #7536 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
I am confused. I meant to ask ... if I let it Auto-Switch, the UI should be SDR and the HDR Screensavers should trigger HDR on the TV. Correct? Or, are the Screensavers not really HDR content?
The developer HUD tells me they are Dolby Vision natively, but I'm not sure about the switching---haven't installed the beta yet.

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post #7537 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
FWIW - My setup, during the ATV4 days, included a 550VA APC UPS (330Watts). When I switched to ATV5, I had planned to keep the same UPS. But immediately after configuring the ATV5 (with DV HDR as the Video Output), I noticed that every time the screensaver kicked in, the UPS would squeal indicating overdrive. Plugging a Kill-A-Watt quickly confirmed that the HDR screensaver increased power consumption of my 55-inch OLED by 90 watts. I also realized that the factory default of setting the Backlight to 100 for Dolby Vision was the cause. Fortunately, a color re-calibration of my setup yielded a value of 36 for my DV-HDR Backlight setting. This is the same BL value as for SDR and results in only 25 watts of additional power usage (no more squeal from the UPS).
That makes sense since it was actually displaying HDR content during the screensaver and the fact that it wasn't doing that on the OS app screen means the power consumption was at least lower than displaying "true" HDR content. So the display wasn't being driven as hard as it was during normal HDR playback, on the app screen.

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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
I am confused. I meant to ask ... if I let it Auto-Switch, the UI should be SDR and the HDR Screensavers should trigger HDR on the TV. Correct? Or, are the Screensavers not really HDR content?
If you have the Apple TV set to HDR, the UI will be displayed in HDR format as will the screensaver (Which is HDR). It is when you playback SDR video content, that the Apple TV will switch.
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post #7538 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by roland6465 View Post
I don't see why it wouldn't play HDR10 as it does currently.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean. I’m talking about Dolby Vision content. If my tv does not support DV, will the Apple TV play that content in sdr or switch to hdr10? I’m referencing the new software that has automatic switching and how the Apple TV will handle DV content on a tv lacking that feature.
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post #7539 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
I'm going to check out Chef's Table when I get home today. Are you seeing zero black bars when you watch it? That's all I'm concerned with; if the content itself is washed out then I would assume it's a mastering or processing issue. However, the black bars being washed out and not true black is a different story.
Is ST2 natively in DV? I didn't notice a DV badge so I've just been using the 60hz 4k HDR setting and as far as I can remember, it looks fine (I have a B6P). Or does the Apple TV version of netflix not identify what is supposed to be in DV?
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post #7540 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:45 AM
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I have my 4k input to denon x3300. when i'm in menus, etc the sound is pretty loud, on par with my other tv sources. when i finally watch a movie though in itunes for example, i have to turn up the volume substantially while the movie is playing. anyone else experienced itunes (or other apps) being quieter than normal?
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post #7541 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:53 AM
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11.2 Public beta now available

Just installed 11.2 and so far the match content for both HDR and Frame Rate are working nicely. Quickly tested iTunes movies, Vudu, Netflix and Hulu. HDR was turned off for all SDR content and I think everything I checked switched the ATV to 24p. Nice step forward.

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post #7542 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeWasAbducted View Post
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean. I’m talking about Dolby Vision content. If my tv does not support DV, will the Apple TV play that content in sdr or switch to hdr10? I’m referencing the new software that has automatic switching and how the Apple TV will handle DV content on a tv lacking that feature.
There is no change to the DV to HDR10 conversion behavior in 11.2. DV will still be converted to HDR10. (Or rather the extra DV metadata will be dropped and it will display the HDR10 base layer.)

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Originally Posted by mentsmin View Post
Is ST2 natively in DV? I didn't notice a DV badge so I've just been using the 60hz 4k HDR setting and as far as I can remember, it looks fine (I have a B6P). Or does the Apple TV version of netflix not identify what is supposed to be in DV?
When I first looked last week, I did not see HDR logos but last night when I was finishing up Mindhunters, I saw the Dolby Vision logo for Stranger Things.
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post #7543 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Just installed 11.2 and so far the match content for both HDR and Frame Rate are working nicely. Quickly tested iTunes movies, Vudu, Netflix and Hulu. HDR was turned off for all SDR content and I think everything I checked switched the ATV to 24p. Nice step forward.
Public or Developer?

Someone just reported on the UK AV site that 11.2 is now public beta.

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post #7544 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Just installed 11.2 and so far the match content for both HDR and Frame Rate are working nicely. Quickly tested iTunes movies, Vudu, Netflix and Hulu. HDR was turned off for all SDR content and I think everything I checked switched the ATV to 24p. Nice step forward.
Is the public Beta for 11.2 available yet? I checked last night and was still on 11.1.
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post #7545 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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Public or Developer?

Someone just reported on the UK AV site that 11.2 is now public beta.
Public is out now. I'll update my post.
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post #7546 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Public is out now. I'll update my post.
that was fast! ok... I'll pick one up today and will install when final non-beta version is released...

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post #7547 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Stranger Things Season 2 looks amazing in DolbyVision. Easily the best grading for anything produced for Netflix thus far. Vizio P75 is working perfectly w the new ATV4k running 11.2 beta. Black levels are perfect. Color rendition is fantastic.

Range and Frame Rate auto switching is working very well.


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Any reason you watch it on the Apple TV 4k vs the P series "built in" Netflix? I own both and was just wondering if you found the AppleTv to produce a better picture.

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post #7548 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
(Or rather the extra DV metadata will be dropped and it will display the HDR10 base layer.)
As previously noted the ATV (iOS 11) HDR10 meta-data differs significantly from the UHD-BD meta-data. One explanation for that is that Apple is converting DV to HDR10 in the box.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #7549 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:35 AM
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Any reason you watch it on the Apple TV 4k vs the P series "built in" Netflix? I own both and was just wondering if you found the AppleTv to produce a better picture.
I like the P Series built-in better only because the display will give you the actual resolution of the content whereas the Apple TV 4k will upscale everything to 4k.

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post #7550 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:39 AM
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Public is out now. I'll update my post.
I noticed that you have to install the updates in increments. I had 11.0 and it updated to 11.1 before updating to 11.2. Don't know why it wouldn't update from 11.0 to 11.2?

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post #7551 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rdh86 View Post
Any reason you watch it on the Apple TV 4k vs the P series "built in" Netflix?
As previously noted there are errors in the iOS 11.1 presentation of ST2 compared to the Chromecast Ultra and the webOS 3.5 player in my LG. I believe the picture quality is the same for all three (which one would certainly hope would be case).
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post #7552 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:39 AM
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I like the P Series built-in better only because the display will give you the actual resolution of the content whereas the Apple TV 4k will upscale everything to 4k.
I don't think it's correct. All 4K TVs will up-convert non-4K content to 4K, so it's just a matter of which device does a better job doing it. So, if a show in one of the build in apps is 1080P, TV will play it back in 4K (it's native resolution), up-converting it in the process.

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post #7553 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I like the P Series built-in better only because the display will give you the actual resolution of the content whereas the Apple TV 4k will upscale everything to 4k.
Appreciate the input. So they added in auto framerate and auto hdr/sdr switching but not resolution? Seems like an odd omission and reason enough to stick with my built in apps for now.

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post #7554 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
As previously noted the ATV (iOS 11) HDR10 meta-data differs significantly from the UHD-BD meta-data. One explanation for that is that Apple is converting DV to HDR10 in the box.
Noted where? I knew there was some discussion but never saw any confirmation.
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post #7555 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Noted where? I knew there was some discussion but never saw any confirmation.
I know it was talked about here:
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post #7556 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:55 AM
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I know it was talked about here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipo05SYfqXw
Ah thanks, must have missed it.
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post #7557 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rdh86 View Post
Appreciate the input. So they added in auto framerate and auto hdr/sdr switching but not resolution? Seems like an odd omission and reason enough to stick with my built in apps for now.
Your built-in apps/TV upscale everything anyway. I think in the grand scheme of things, the HDR/SDR and 24/60 switching makes a much bigger difference.
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post #7558 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Confirmed; the ATV is converting DV to HDR-10 on the fly:
https://youtu.be/ipo05SYfqXw
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Noted where? I knew there was some discussion but never saw any confirmation.
In a follow-up @nathan_h notes the minute where the meta-data comparison is found.
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post #7559 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TohaLA View Post
I don't think it's correct. All 4K TVs will up-convert non-4K content to 4K, so it's just a matter of which device does a better job doing it. So, if a show in one of the build in apps is 1080P, TV will play it back in 4K (it's native resolution), up-converting it in the process.
It's true, the Vizio "P" series will show the actual resolution coming from the apps such as Netflix. If it is an HD only show, the display "Info" button will show 1080p and not 2160p. Other devices such as the Shield, Apple TV 4k, Chromecast Ultra will all report 2160p regardless of the actual resolution. The Vizio may up-convert everything but it still shows us what the actual resolution that it's receiving.
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post #7560 of 25652 Old 11-01-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post
Your built-in apps/TV upscale everything anyway. I think in the grand scheme of things, the HDR/SDR and 24/60 switching makes a much bigger difference.
100% agree. I'm just assuming my $2500 display will do a better job than the $250 ATV.
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