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post #18691 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
No, what I was trying to say is that the Dolby Surround upmix includes mapping sound to your configured Dolby Atmos speakers and Neural:X will map sounds to your configured DTS:X height speakers. So in effect, a sort of virtual Atmos and virtual DTS:X. Not the real thing.

Sorry for confusion.
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post #18692 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The AVR without Atmos speakers does not report Atmos when receiving Atmos from the ATV4k.


My Denon x4300 reports “receiving” Atmos from the ATV4 even though I don’t have Atmos speakers. Of course the Atmos is down converted to 5.1 by the Denon.

Interestingly my LGC7 will only send DD+ to the same Denon.


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post #18693 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
All I know is that prior to 12 my AVR said Dolby Surround and now it says PCM surround which means that my rear surrounds are not getting upmixed to. Which basically means unless it's an Atmos title, they won't be used on ATV because nothing is 7 channel.
Interesting. My Marantz has, for as long as I can remember, refused to up mix MultiChannel PCM via DS -- regardless of whether the ATV4k was on version 11 or 12.

Are you sure you didn't have the ATVk4 toggled to output DD instead of "best" when you were on TVOS11?
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post #18694 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
It will be the same. Content providers don't want duplicate audio tracks for various platforms. Much easier to have the same audio encode for all platforms.
I guess what I should have asked was will the ATV4K process the Dolby Digital+ more efficiently resulting in better Dolby digital+ than what other streamers are capable of. Is their Dolby MAT superior?

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post #18695 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 02:00 PM
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All streamers are not equal.

New to Apple TV 4K. I find the differences in streaming apps very interesting.

I have the UHD HDR10 Blu-ray of Avengers Infinity War. I registered the digital copy code with Movies Anywhere. I have iTunes, Vudu and Prime Video set up to share my Movies Anywhere library.

Here are the audio and video streams of Avengers Infinity War reported by my receiver.

Blu-ray UHD, HDR10, Dolby Atmos (Tru)

iTunes HD, SDR, 7.1
Prime Video UHD, HDR10, 5.1
Vudu UHD, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos (DD+)

I didn't think there would be so many different streams depending on the app I chose when using the Apple TV 4K for the same movie.

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post #18696 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 02:51 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post
New to Apple TV 4K. I find the differences in streaming apps very interesting.



I have the UHD HDR10 Blu-ray of Avengers Infinity War. I registered the digital copy code with Movies Anywhere. I have iTunes, Vudu and Prime Video set up to share my Movies Anywhere library.



Here are the audio and video streams of Avengers Infinity War reported by my receiver.



Blu-ray UHD, HDR10, Dolby Atmos (Tru)



iTunes HD, SDR, 7.1

Prime Video UHD, HDR10, 5.1

Vudu UHD, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos (DD+)



I didn't think there would be so many different streams depending on the app I chose when using the Apple TV 4K for the same movie.



LeRoy


It's all in the licensing and who pays who for what. My Sony X800 4k player can do Atmos on Prime (only Jack Ryan has it right now) but not on Netflix. Conversely on the ATV I get Atmos on Netflix and 2ch PCM on Jack Ryan on Prime. I tested Valerian on prime and did get a multi channel 5.1 PCM feed on that though.


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post #18697 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
It's all in the licensing and who pays who for what. My Sony X800 4k player can do Atmos on Prime (only Jack Ryan has it right now) but not on Netflix. Conversely on the ATV I get Atmos on Netflix and 2ch PCM on Jack Ryan on Prime. I tested Valerian on prime and did get a multi channel 5.1 PCM feed on that though.


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I get 5.1 PCm now from Jack RYan on my ATV 4K. When it first released I was only getting 2.0.
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post #18698 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I get 5.1 PCm from Jack RYan on my ATV 4K.


Yeah I've heard it does that not sure why I don't unless having it connected to a 1080p TV is changing the stream. It doesn't do that on my x800 though. I do get 5.1 if I change the audio settings in the ATV Settings from Best and Atmos.


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post #18699 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
If you followed the thread, my intent on the ATV was to improve upscaling on non 4k content including OTA/DVR. It was not to replace my existing OTA and DVR setup that was working well. Yes, I already have a Plex Pass. It turns out that the improvement in upscaling was very small.
Plex really is not very good on the ATV 4K. The Infuse and MrMC Apps direct play everything from a Plex database way better.

I use the MrMC App that has Kodi PVR support on the ATV 4K, TV deinterlacing picture quality is excellent. You can also add picture "Post Processing" to mpeg2 SD TV channels because the ATV 4K's CPU has enough grunt.

There is a fairly extensive review of that Combo that I did over on the Kodi forums. The MrMC App now sports a new cleaner user interface.
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post #18700 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wrxtasy View Post
Plex really is not very good on the ATV 4K. The Infuse and MrMC Apps direct play everything from a Plex database way better.



I use the MrMC App that has Kodi PVR support on the ATV 4K, TV deinterlacing picture quality is excellent. You can also add picture "Post Processing" to mpeg2 SD TV channels because the ATV 4K's CPU has enough grunt.



There is a fairly extensive review of that Combo that I did over on the Kodi forums. The MrMC App now sports a new cleaner user interface.


He’s stated that the ATV4K doesn’t work for him because he’s a Plex Pass user with OTA channels to DVR. Plex (or Infuse or MrMC) can play his recorded shows but not live TV. The only thing that works for him given those requirements is Plex on the Shield. Besides he was only interested in ATV4K upscaling versus Shield and during his tests with it didn’t see enough of an improvement with his own content to warrant keeping it.


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post #18701 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 10:54 PM
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He’s stated that the ATV4K doesn’t work for him because he’s a Plex Pass user with OTA channels to DVR. Plex (or Infuse or MrMC) can play his recorded shows but not live TV. The only thing that works for him given those requirements is Plex on the Shield. Besides he was only interested in ATV4K upscaling versus Shield and during his tests with it didn’t see enough of an improvement with his own content to warrant keeping it.


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No, MrMc can absolutely handle live TV via OTA or CableCard.

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post #18702 of 26060 Old 10-05-2018, 11:06 PM
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I have only had my ATV 4K atmos unit for about 5 days and I am noticing that whenever I watch a HDR movie my screen goes noticeably darker almost unwatchable. I have a Samsung KS9800 and it does do HDR.

As soon as I get out of a HDR movie in Netflix the screen gets brighter. It's makes it hard to watch a HDR movie.

Right now my ATV settings are Format 4K SDR...HDMI output YCbCr.....Chroma 4:4:4.
Match content Range and Frame Rate.

I do not have Enable HDR on.

Now a HDR movie is too dark for me to watch, Is there anyway to override the HDR setting?
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post #18703 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
I have only had my ATV 4K atmos unit for about 5 days and I am noticing that whenever I watch a HDR movie my screen goes noticeably darker almost unwatchable. I have a Samsung KS9800 and it does do HDR.

As soon as I get out of a HDR movie in Netflix the screen gets brighter. It's makes it hard to watch a HDR movie.

Right now my ATV settings are Format 4K SDR...HDMI output YCbCr.....Chroma 4:4:4.
Match content Range and Frame Rate.

I do not have Enable HDR on.

Now a HDR movie is too dark for me to watch, Is there anyway to override the HDR setting?

If your TV does HDR, why have you chosen to not enable it on the ATV? I would think that you should have "Enable HDR" On with the ATV.

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post #18704 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 02:53 AM
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The HDFury Linker is being replaced by the HDFury Integral 2 --> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...rs-thread.html
Both are very expensive. Any cheaper alternatives?
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post #18705 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
No, MrMc can absolutely handle live TV via OTA or CableCard.


Via Plex? That’s what he needs. He says it doesn’t.


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post #18706 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 05:16 AM
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If your TV does HDR, why have you chosen to not enable it on the ATV? I would think that you should have "Enable HDR" On with the ATV.


No, he has it set correctly. See the first post.


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post #18707 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wrxtasy View Post
Plex really is not very good on the ATV 4K. The Infuse and MrMC Apps direct play everything from a Plex database way better.

I use the MrMC App that has Kodi PVR support on the ATV 4K, TV deinterlacing picture quality is excellent. You can also add picture "Post Processing" to mpeg2 SD TV channels because the ATV 4K's CPU has enough grunt.

There is a fairly extensive review of that Combo that I did over on the Kodi forums. The MrMC App now sports a new cleaner user interface.
Ive used MrMC Fork on the Shield. Yes it is pretty nice and can use your Plex catalog. For the ATV, it didnt solve anything though, Ir does not allow a hook into the Live TV/DVR. Same with Infuse, Does not help with Live TV. The Kodi and forks do not support my Hauppauge tuner hardware that I can find (Ive tried). Seems if I had HDHomerun or Tablo Id be better supported. What I did fine on the Kodi side of things is using SPMC fork. SPMC has a better upscaler than MrMC or regular KODI. tt has lanczos3 - optimised video scaling which none of the others have, People have been asking for it to be added to MrMc. What I do there is run a "Plex for Kodi" client in SPMC. This allows anything in plex library to be played using that upscaling. I can use it for DVR'd "TV Shows" catalog. Like all Kodi though no support for Live. I would need to get a different tuner.and use different software.

I would say the improvement of that scaler is similar to what I saw with ATV. Very small and barely noticable. This cost me $0 and I still use Plex which has other numerous things I like. The ATV just didnt provide any capability that was a real improvement over my current setup and there were other things about it that I didnt like. To pay $180 for it, change DVR software platform from one that I really like, possibly need to buy different tuner made no sense for me.

Another thing I found is the very best scaler out there is MadVR but it is Windows only so you would need an HTPC to use that.

What I have come to is I may be looking for something that is not there. After seeing the upscale difference with ATV and the SPMC scaler, its a very small difference. My normal upscale is fine, but human nature is always to be looking for something better. I have a setup now that really works well and its time to leave well enough alone.
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post #18708 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
I have only had my ATV 4K atmos unit for about 5 days and I am noticing that whenever I watch a HDR movie my screen goes noticeably darker almost unwatchable. I have a Samsung KS9800 and it does do HDR.

As soon as I get out of a HDR movie in Netflix the screen gets brighter. It's makes it hard to watch a HDR movie.

Right now my ATV settings are Format 4K SDR...HDMI output YCbCr.....Chroma 4:4:4.
Match content Range and Frame Rate.

I do not have Enable HDR on.

Now a HDR movie is too dark for me to watch, Is there anyway to override the HDR setting?
Just to clarify, having your ATV4K set to 4K SDR with Match Dymamic Range set to ON will cause the ATV4K to autimatically turn HDR on when you are playing HDR10 or Dolby Vision content. If you want to ‘override’ this then keep your Format setting as 4K SDR and turn Match Dynamic Range OFF.

To touch briefly on your concerns about your KS9800 being too dim for your liking when playing HDR I would raise this in the Official 2016 Samsung KS9800 Owner's Thread or do a Google Search as follows and you will find other owners who share your concern but if you read the replies many more would disagree...

Google Search: KS9800 AND dim AND HDR site:https://www.avsforum.com

A 1000+ NITS premium certified TV is certainly bright enough to display HDR correctly as evidenced by the many reviews of the KS9800 so assuming their TVs are properly calibrated I would suggest that maybe some guys are just not accustomed to how High Dynamic Range is designed to work and so I always refer members to this great indepth 30 page article written by Bill Baggelaar, Senior Vice President of Technology for Colorworks and Post-Production Services at Sony Pictures:

High Dyamic Range explained

Below is a comparison from the article that includes lots of pictures. While there is no denying that the 4K HDR image shown on top is darker than the 1080p SDR image you are used to watching, look at the details presented and the 3D immersion High Dynamic Range can bring to the movie.



As you will see in many cases HDR content looks less bright than SDR content that you are used to and in many cases this can be chalked up to the Director’s intent, but where it really excels is in the specular highlights (like a candle burning or the sun rising for example) and the increased picture depth.
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post #18709 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
Ive used MrMC Fork on the Shield. Yes it is pretty nice and can use your Plex catalog. For the ATV, it didnt solve anything though, Ir does not allow a hook into the Live TV/DVR. Same with Infuse, Does not help with Live TV. The Kodi and forks do not support my Hauppauge tuner hardware that I can find (Ive tried). Seems if I had HDHomerun or Tablo Id be better supported. What I did fine on the Kodi side of things is using SPMC fork. SPMC has a better upscaler than MrMC or regular KODI. tt has lanczos3 - optimised video scaling which none of the others have, People have been asking for it to be added to MrMc. What I do there is run a "Plex for Kodi" client in SPMC. This allows anything in plex library to be played using that upscaling. I can use it for DVR'd "TV Shows" catalog. Like all Kodi though no support for Live. I would need to get a different tuner.and use different software.



I would say the improvement of that scaler is similar to what I saw with ATV. Very small and barely noticable. This cost me $0 and I still use Plex which has other numerous things I like. The ATV just didnt provide any capability that was a real improvement over my current setup and there were other things about it that I didnt like. To pay $180 for it, change DVR software platform from one that I really like, possibly need to buy different tuner made no sense for me.



Another thing I found is the very best scaler out there is MadVR but it is Windows only so you would need an HTPC to use that.



What I have come to is I may be looking for something that is not there. After seeing the upscale difference with ATV and the SPMC scaler, its a very small difference. My normal upscale is fine, but human nature is always to be looking for something better. I have a setup now that really works well and its time to leave well enough alone.


The recent versions of Infuse are running the latest lanczos scaler algorithms. Also, koying (of SPMC and XMBC fame) joined MrMC. Both of these are optimized for ATV and I can definitely tell the difference. In fact my Shield with MrMC or SPMC is not as good. Not terrible just not the same quality.


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post #18710 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 09:16 AM
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@Musician Thanks much for your explanation. I will post the question on the KS9800 thread too.
Looks like I have some reading to do.


Match Dynamic Range OFF made a big difference.
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post #18711 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post

Below is a comparison from the article that includes lots of pictures. While there is no denying that the 4K HDR image shown on top is darker than the 1080p SDR image you are used to watching, look at the details presented and the 3D immersion High Dynamic Range can bring to the movie.



As you will see in many cases HDR content looks less bright than SDR content that you are used to and in many cases this can be chalked up to the Director’s intent, but where it really excels is in the specular highlights (like a candle burning or the sun rising for example) and the increased picture depth.
I have to disagree that in this case the HDR image is better looking than the SDR image. To my eye, the HDR image looks washed out with elevated black levels and overly emphasized mid tones at the expense of contrast. The latest example of this "flat" mastering is probably Maniac on Netflix, which has a grey cast across the entire image at all times and no true blacks (Netflix seems to have a real problem with mastering their HDR content; I'm hard pressed to find a show that looks better in 4K HDR than in 4K SDR). Much more successful is the HDR mastering for, say, the iTunes versions of Blade Runner 2049, Sicario, or Mad Max: Fury Road in 4K Dolby Vision - these look spectacular and far more natural to me. But, of course, this is personal, subjective and YMMV...
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post #18712 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BobDyl View Post
I have to disagree that in this case the HDR image is better looking than the SDR image. To my eye, the HDR image looks washed out with elevated black levels and overly emphasized mid tones at the expense of contrast. The latest example of this "flat" mastering is probably Maniac on Netflix, which has a grey cast across the entire image at all times and no true blacks (Netflix seems to have a real problem with mastering their HDR content; I'm hard pressed to find a show that looks better in 4K HDR than in 4K SDR). Much more successful is the HDR mastering for, say, the iTunes versions of Blade Runner 2049, Sicario, or Mad Max: Fury Road in 4K Dolby Vision - these look spectacular and far more natural to me. But, of course, this is personal, subjective and YMMV...
I could say the same about the SDR picture having blown-out whites (e.g around the neck of his collar) and lack of contrast (e.g. where you can hardly see the cables on the suspension bridge) but the primary point of my reply was to answer the Original Poster’s question, not to turn this thread into another HDR versus SDR comparison thread, but you are right, this is personal, subjective, and YMMV.

P.S. You know the most ironic thing with your post versus my post is that I spent considerabe time...

  • telling him how to disable HDR if he so chooses on the Apple TV 4K
  • providing him with Google Search results of links to other owners of the Samsung KS9800
  • and providing him with a small sample of requisite reading by an expert

...not to mention doing some research into his TV which included reading reviews like this one...

Gorgeous colors and searing brightness: The KS9800 is what HDR should look like

...but as of this writing @dreaux gives you the ‘Like’ and not me. Hmmph!!

Edit: Thanks @dreaux for the ‘Like’
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post #18713 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post

...but as of this writing @dreaux gives you the ‘Like’ and not me. Hmmph!!

Edit: Thanks @dreaux for the ‘Like’
I just gave you a like as well! Very informative post, even if we have a gentlemen's disagreement!
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post #18714 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BobDyl View Post
I just gave you a like as well! Very informative post, even if we have a gentlemen's disagreement!
Well then I am about to get another ‘Like’ from both of you because I am in agreement, there are many cases where HDR has not necessarily improved the original SDR version.

I just tossed up the Spiderman picture from the article for demonstrative purposes to save some time since I had used it in another post but in any case we can all probably agree that HDR can look absolutely fantastic when everything comes together — TV and equipment, calibrations, settings, device(s), content, studio, provider, grading, mastering, and director’s intent!

Cheers!
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post #18715 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 06:35 PM
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can I get a like too
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post #18716 of 26060 Old 10-06-2018, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BobDyl View Post
I have to disagree that in this case the HDR image is better looking than the SDR image.
If these images accurately reflect the content then that scene wasn't graded properly. Getting the bridge details, some finer skin features etc. doesn't mean flattening critical parts of the scene into a mid-tone soup.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #18717 of 26060 Old 10-07-2018, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
If these images accurately reflect the content then that scene wasn't graded properly. Getting the bridge details, some finer skin features etc. doesn't mean flattening critical parts of the scene into a mid-tone soup.
Agreed. To me, the best part about HDR is the wide color gamut, not the often praised specular highlights. For example, seeing a street light or candle does look cool in HDR, but after a while, it seems kind of gimmicky to me. I get distracted from the movie or TV show looking for specular highlights. If only WCG were available via SDR, I'd be happy.
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post #18718 of 26060 Old 10-07-2018, 09:00 PM
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I have an Apple TV 4k with the latest update. When put the any movie in pause for a few minutes and start playing it again, movies automatically rewind back several minutes. This issue started when tvOS 12 came out. I even restored my Apple TV 4k back to factory settings and it still does the same thing. Is this issue known?
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post #18719 of 26060 Old 10-07-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kage View Post
I have an Apple TV 4k with the latest update. When put the any movie in pause for a few minutes and start playing it again, movies automatically rewind back several minutes. This issue started when tvOS 12 came out. I even restored my Apple TV 4k back to factory settings and it still does the same thing. Is this issue known?


Been having the same issue. It's like the mark on the scrubber where you pause moves back anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes in the movie/show, then when you hit play without realizing it, you end up scratching your head as you re-watch the same thing you previously watched. Pretty annoying. Happens on all apps.


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post #18720 of 26060 Old 10-08-2018, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Kage View Post
I have an Apple TV 4k with the latest update. When put the any movie in pause for a few minutes and start playing it again, movies automatically rewind back several minutes. This issue started when tvOS 12 came out. I even restored my Apple TV 4k back to factory settings and it still does the same thing. Is this issue known?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMIL View Post
Been having the same issue. It's like the mark on the scrubber where you pause moves back anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes in the movie/show, then when you hit play without realizing it, you end up scratching your head as you re-watch the same thing you previously watched. Pretty annoying. Happens on all apps.

...
I saw this a few times with the vs. 12 beta but haven't seen it with the final release so I thought it was gone. I use my Harmony remote mostly to pause so that hopefully it doesn't happen as much?

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