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post #19171 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I'm hoping it fixes the issue where sometimes coming out of "pause" it will go back as much as 20 minutes but usually a few minutes.


Same here. Time will tell.


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post #19172 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hhaller View Post
ran the HDMI check and I received a "HDMI connection is looking better" message. Weird.
I'm not sure what you consider weird but I believe that's expected behavior. It's what I've seen after reports of HDMI stability.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19173 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I'm not sure what you consider weird but I believe that's expected behavior. It's what I've seen after reports of HDMI stability.


I’ll have to recheck mine. If Apple is using language like “better” that would be strange.


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post #19174 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’ll have to recheck mine. If Apple is using language like “better” that would be strange.
The exact phrase may be something else but it is incongruous, I've seen it twice (because of another component) hence the re-power advice.


I am curious if you have a way of inducing HDMI instability (other than using antique cables).

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19175 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I think your observations were / are incomplete. The behaviour described below dates back to at least April 2018 when I started looking at it; and hasn't changed to now with version 12.0.1 on my ATV4K (UK).

You can find evidence at the moment of DV titles in the Netflix library which behave differently to each other. Even same title, different season.
Take for instance Daredevil Season 2 episode 13, and then Season 3 episode 1. Details below; but the new S03 has fixed maxCLL at 4000, S01 and S02 both have wildly fluctuating maxCLL.

This is a problem for devices like the Lumagen which expect the content and / or player to be well mannered. The Lumagen for example uses this metadata change the tone map used; switching tone map isn't completely seamless and results in a luminance jump (you can see the tone map changed in the screenshots below). This shouldn't be an issue as these changes shouldn't be happening within content, they should only be happening at new stream boundaries.

Seeing as we have here two pieces of content, both DV, same player app, but behaving differently, I can see two possibilities:
1) The content has this fluctuating metadata burnt into the stream (either in error or by design of DV) and the AppleTV should be replacing this metadata with some static metadata and isn't, or the content provider should be making the content without the fluctuating data present. ATV DV is Profile 5 which has no native compatibility with HDR10, but I don't have details of what Dolby say should be happening with MaxCLL.
2) The AppleTV is actually creating the metadata from scratch and the DV streams are in some way differently mastered so some content causes bogus metadata to be generated by the ATV and some doesn't.

I don't have any way of instrumenting a test to see what is actually going on. The AppleTV HUD doesn't give enough useful information about what is happening in the streams and conversion process.

I've seen a couple of posts saying this MaxCLL data isn't bogus. It is bogus - MaxCLL is defined as being a static value representing the maximum pixel value for the whole stream. If that metadata is changing during the stream it is by definition broken and bogus as it doesn't represent what that metadata is supposed to represent!
---

Details and screenshots

Season 2 Episode 13 is DV. Converted by the ATV to HDR10 it has wildly fluctuating maxCLL metadata, per your second point. MaxCLL should be constant for the duration of the program - by definition it is the max light level of a single pixel for the whole programme.
See a couple of grabs from the same episode S02 E13:



Season 3 Epsiode 1 is also DV. Converted by the ATV to HDR10 it has fixed maxCLL metadata:
I got different HDR metadata from each of my devices; Panasonic UB820, Samsung K8500, and ATV4K. Only the ATV4K has metadata that changes values within an episode. I captured the metadata values from my HDfury Vertex.

Note that all three devices had unique MaxCLL and MaxFALL values.

Panasonic UB820 Daredevel S3 E1

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 0.005
MaxCLL: 10000
MaxFALL: 513

Panasonic UB820 Daredevel S2 E13

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 0.005
MaxCLL: 10000
MaxFALL: 256

Samsung K8500 Daredevel S3 E1

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 0.005
MaxCLL: 0
MaxFALL: 0

Samsung K8500 Daredevel S2 E13

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 0.005
MaxCLL: 0
MaxFALL: 0

ATV4K Daredevel S3 E1

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 4000
MaxFALL: 1000

ATV4K Daredevel S2 E13 - MaxCLL and MaxFALL values changed 6 times within the first 3 minutes 30 seconds. The MaxCLL change from 1016 to 10000 resulted in a Projector HDMI re-sync as it switched from my 1100 nit curve to my 4000 nit curve.

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 7244
MaxFALL: 60

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 1260
MaxFALL: 13

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 1484
MaxFALL: 14

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 1400
MaxFALL: 14

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 1016
MaxFALL: 14

MaxDML: 4000
MinDML: 4.125
MaxCLL: 10000
MaxFALL: 8

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post #19176 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 08:47 PM
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Performed the 12.1 update this evening and none of my purchased movies (from the link with VUDU & Movies Anywhere) are showing up in iTunes. In addition, most of the iTunes "Featured" movies are just showing a "blank" icon and aren't showing the movie cover picture. Don't know what other things are broken or fixed as that is the only time I had this evening to do any testing. I did check to be sure that my log-in information for iTunes was still in the settings and it was. I also verified that my movies show up in both VUDU and Movies Anywhere.

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post #19177 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
Performed the 12.1 update this evening and none of my purchased movies (from the link with VUDU & Movies Anywhere) are showing up in iTunes. In addition, most of the iTunes "Featured" movies are just showing a "blank" icon and aren't showing the movie cover picture. Don't know what other things are broken or fixed as that is the only time I had this evening to do any testing. I did check to be sure that my log-in information for iTunes was still in the settings and it was. I also verified that my movies show up in both VUDU and Movies Anywhere.


Restart it or reset might just be a glitch. Everything was good for me after the update


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post #19178 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 09:19 PM
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What's best reoslution for apple tv?
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post #19179 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chenghou xd View Post
What's best reoslution for apple tv?
The resolution of your TV.
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post #19180 of 24951 Old 10-30-2018, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
Performed the 12.1 update this evening and none of my purchased movies (from the link with VUDU & Movies Anywhere) are showing up in iTunes. In addition, most of the iTunes "Featured" movies are just showing a "blank" icon and aren't showing the movie cover picture. Don't know what other things are broken or fixed as that is the only time I had this evening to do any testing. I did check to be sure that my log-in information for iTunes was still in the settings and it was. I also verified that my movies show up in both VUDU and Movies Anywhere.
Me too on both my ATV4Ks, even with a restart. Or something similar: none of my purchased movies show up under Purchased in itunes, but if I search for and play one I own then it plays correctly.
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post #19181 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
I got different HDR metadata from each of my devices; Panasonic UB820, Samsung K8500, and ATV4K. Only the ATV4K has metadata that changes values within an episode. I captured the metadata values from my HDfury Vertex.

Note that all three devices had unique MaxCLL and MaxFALL values.
Nice job, clearly shows the difference in what different players are doing with this data.
I see you have a Chromecast Ultra. I believe that also does Netflix HDR. Be interesting to see how that behaves, too.

Interestingly at this page Netflix claim the AppleTV supports HDR10 streaming. Which clearly it does not!
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/42384#

I'm assuming (dangerous) it is a player app issue from Netflix which makes them decide to pull the DV streams instead of HDR10 streams where supported by the display (maybe it was easier to make the app that way) as the AppleTV clearly can support native HDR10 streaming.
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post #19182 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post
I think he’s suggesting that SDR is sent as SDR, but hdr material should use an HDR-10 stream for non Dolby Vision TVs and a Dolby Vision stream for compatible TVs.
Sending HDR content to my set in DV is indeed modifying it and I see no reason to want that, I want it sent the way it's mastered.
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post #19183 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
Sending HDR content to my set in DV is indeed modifying it and I see no reason to want that, I want it sent the way it's mastered.
I think you're still missing the point.

current state (in case where there is dv source available):

sdr -> sdr
dv -> dv (for compatible TV)
dv -> converted to hdr10 -> hdr10 (for non dv compatible TV)

Proposed state (in case where there is dv source available):

sdr -> sdr
dv -> dv (for compatible TV)
hdr10 source -> hdr10 (for non dv compatible TV)
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post #19184 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
I think you're still missing the point.

current state (in case where there is dv source available):

sdr -> sdr
dv -> dv (for compatible TV)
dv -> converted to hdr10 -> hdr10 (for non dv compatible TV)

Proposed state (in case where there is dv source available):

sdr -> sdr
dv -> dv (for compatible TV)
hdr10 source -> hdr10 (for non dv compatible TV)
That's not at all what those I'm replying to said, it's pretty clear the quote I replied to says they want to convert HDR to DV.
I'm not missing any point, but if the OPs aren't being clear in their post they need to resolve that.


This started because it was stated that they wanted the ATV4K on Netflix to behave like the XB1 which currently forces ALL content to HDR including SDR which I find completely unacceptable.
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post #19185 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
That's not at all what those I'm replying to said, it's pretty clear the quote I replied to says they want to convert HDR to DV.
I'm not missing any point, but if the OPs are being clear in their post they need to resolve that.
The post you replied to said that for hdr content, it should send a dv stream to dv devices and an hdr10 stream to hdr10 devices. No one in this thread said anything about converting a non-dv hdr stream to dv. lol.
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post #19186 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 05:37 AM
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can someone point me to where in Infuse the HDR Tonemapping settings are?

I don't really like talking about my flair
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post #19187 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The exact phrase may be something else but it is incongruous, I've seen it twice (because of another component) hence the re-power advice.


I am curious if you have a way of inducing HDMI instability (other than using antique cables).


Upon completion of the HDMI test the message is:



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post #19188 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 05:58 AM
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Two channels.
Thank you Nathan! My friend using Marantz 8012 R AV receiver when he plays latest songs he getting 9 channels! Some time 6 channels and he said he selected option source dependent only! How he is able to get Many channels with out upscaling to multi channels!
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post #19189 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:08 AM
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Most of you use wireless or wired with you ATV4K ?
Wondering how well the 5G works with steaming 4K movies over netflix.

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post #19190 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:11 AM
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WiFi AC works fine for UHD.

But wired is more reliable than WiFi imo.
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post #19191 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gakbw View Post
Thank you Nathan! My friend using Marantz 8012 R AV receiver when he plays latest songs he getting 9 channels! Some time 6 channels and he said he selected option source dependent only! How he is able to get Many channels with out upscaling to multi channels!
http://manuals.marantz.com/SR6012/NA...SYyrtgycpw.php

In particular look at the two options for Original Sound Mode which put sound into every speaker.
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post #19192 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:18 AM
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Wondering how well the 5G works with steaming 4K movies over netflix.

That's what I use. 350Mbps connection (of which the ATV receives around 110Mbps when in use). Works fine for DV and Atmos shows.
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post #19193 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:24 AM
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Most of you use wireless or wired with you ATV4K ?
Wondering how well the 5G works with steaming 4K movies over netflix.
I use/used both. Obviously, ethernet is the preferred whenever possible. Not just for bandwidth, but for a "No Interference" experience. Remember, there's a LOT of devices that use 2.4/5ghz. From microwaves and cordless phones to so many more. Not just in your house, but your neighbors. They ALL can affect YOU streaming. So always use ethernet if it's possible.

Having said that, 5ghz works fine. It's faster than 2.4ghz. The key however is that 5ghz is affected more by walls, floors, distance, and other interference. So if you are close enough between the ATV4K and your wireless router, it will work quite fine. Mine is in the next room, about 20-25 feet away.

If it's too far away; like on a different floor and on the other side of the house, you'd be better off using 2.4ghz.

Something else many people don't realize, is that both wireless, 2.4 and 5ghz have multiple channels. This is handy if you get a lot of buffering, interference, pixelization, and other issues. One of the other many devices could be a problem. In your router, you can change the channel.

You can do some testing on 5ghz by taking your phone to where the ATV4k is, putting it on the 5ghz wifi, and doing speed tests and other tests. In my house, the ONLY thing I use 5ghz wifi for IS my 2 Roku's and sometimes my ATV4K. But again, my devices are only 20-25 feet away. And my ATV4K I mainly run over ethernet.
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post #19194 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:25 AM
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His AVR is in “fake” surround mode. It’s taking 2 channels in and converting it to pseudo-surround.
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post #19195 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I see you have a Chromecast Ultra. I believe that also does Netflix HDR. Be interesting to see how that behaves, too.
Updated my signature to remove the Chromecast Ultra. It was retired from duty once I got my ATV4K. I disliked the need to use a separate device to select content and cast to the Chromecast.
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post #19196 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 07:52 AM
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Can someone help me debug why my tvos won't upgarde to 12.1

It downloads the entire update and then it goes to "preparing" mode. Then it just bombs out with "update failed try again later"

I does this over and over again even after restart.

It also did the same and wouldn't upgrade to 12.0.1
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post #19197 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by kabraal View Post
Can someone help me debug why my tvos won't upgarde to 12.1

It downloads the entire update and then it goes to "preparing" mode. Then it just bombs out with "update failed try again later"

I does this over and over again even after restart.

It also did the same and wouldn't upgrade to 12.0.1
You said it did the same thing with 12.0.1 and wouldn't upgrade. Did it eventually upgrade? If so, how did it resolve. Or did it just do it eventually?

Are you trying to do it over WIFI. Many people don't realize how wifi can have a lot of interference and other issues. They think because they have a lot of bandwidth, that is all they need. If you are doing wifi, try using ethernet. Even if it means temporarily laying a long ethernet on the floor between the atv4k and the router. If ethernet is not an option, are you using 5ghz or 2.4ghz wifi? Whichever one you're using, try putting the atv4k on the other wifi network and try that.

WIFI's ONLY REDEEMING QUALITY is that it's "Convenient". It is never better than ethernet. Many people complain about streaming tv services like DirectvNow and others; believe because they have a lot of bandwidth on their internet that the problem MUST be with the streaming tv provider. They don't realize all the home network issues they can have. Interference, improper QOS, other router issues, DNS, high jitter and/or latency, and the list goes on.

Try ethernet if possible; or at least a different wifi band.
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post #19198 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabraal View Post
Can someone help me debug why my tvos won't upgarde to 12.1



It downloads the entire update and then it goes to "preparing" mode. Then it just bombs out with "update failed try again later"



I does this over and over again even after restart.



It also did the same and wouldn't upgrade to 12.0.1


Try to do a factory reset & see if it updates there if not you might need to contact apple. I’m on wifi and my update went through smoothly.


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post #19199 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 09:51 AM
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Thanks. Nope never updated to 12.0.1. After a few tries I didn't bother with it further as I thought the issue would resolve itself with 12.1

Just did a factory reset. Still doesn't want to update.

Wired healthy 50mbps connection. Sigj
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post #19200 of 24951 Old 10-31-2018, 09:54 AM
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May be time to visit the so-called genius bar.
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