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post #19381 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
Do you mean where you run another type of wire and then put HDMI adapters on each end (sorry for my lack of wiring knowledge )? That's what the guy did way-back-when for my Zone 2 televisions upstairs. I think he called it Cat5 or maybe Cat7?

Right now I'm having some difficulty finding someone locally (London, Ontario, Canada) to run in-ceiling wiring for me (both to potentially replace this old HDMI cable, and also to add four in-ceiling Atmos speakers). Depending upon who I find (if anyone!) and what it costs I may just decide to leave it as is. The 4K itself still looks awesome even in SDR, and my Panny 820 is able to send 4K HDR via the existing cable.

Thank you!
Yes, similar to what you're describing. I use this product (but there are others):

https://www.tlnetworx.com/products/tl-fo2-hdc2

It requires 2 fiber optic cables to be run. Cat5 or Cat6 does not have enough bandwidth for 18Ghz hdmi without major compression.
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post #19382 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
Yes, similar to what you're describing. I use this product (but there are others):

https://www.tlnetworx.com/products/tl-fo2-hdc2

It requires 2 fiber optic cables to be run. Cat5 or Cat6 does not have enough bandwidth for 18Ghz hdmi without major compression.
Marvellous to know - thank you again sir! I will remember this when I'm speaking to...whomever I end up speaking with about new wiring .

4K/3D Projector: Sony VPL-VW295es | Screen: 120" 16x9 framed 'Screen Goo’ (Digital Grey) | 4K Player: Panasonic DP-UB820-K | Streaming: Apple TV 4K (64 GB) | Gaming: PS4 (500 GB), PS3 Slim (320 GB) | Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H | Speakers (5.1.4): Axiom VP150 (centre), Axiom M60 x2 (towers), Axiom EP350 (LFE), Axiom QS8 quadpolar x2 (surrounds), Axiom M3 In-Ceiling x4 (atmos) | Remote: Harmony Elite
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post #19383 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
Yes, similar to what you're describing. I use this product (but there are others):

https://www.tlnetworx.com/products/tl-fo2-hdc2

It requires 2 fiber optic cables to be run. Cat5 or Cat6 does not have enough bandwidth for 18Ghz hdmi without major compression.
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Marvellous to know - thank you again sir! I will remember this when I'm speaking to...whomever I end up speaking with about new wiring .
My brother ran fiber as well and his works like a charm.
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post #19384 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
25 feet, as near as I can figure. Old cable (10'ish years). A brand called Connexia. Looks like I'll need to replace it.

Anyway, thank you for the response. I made a newbie mistake and double posted about this (also in a Denon thread) so will restrict any further musing on this question there. Cheers!
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Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
I believe that is too long to do 18Ghz reliably on an hdmi cable. I have a similar run and I'm using fiber optic cable
25 foot should be no problem with a proper copper cable. I have used a 25 foot Blue Jeans Series-1 cable for the past two years with no problems; even at 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit. But it is true that there are many cables that claim 18Gbps capability at 25 feet or longer but fail to deliver.
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post #19385 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 11:26 AM
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He said the cable has been there for 10 years.

I don't know if that's really true but ... if it's been there for 5 years he needs to replace it. (Not because it's gone stale but ATV4K needs latest HDMI Cables.)
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post #19386 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
25 feet, as near as I can figure. Old cable (10'ish years). A brand called Connexia. Looks like I'll need to replace it.



Anyway, thank you for the response. I made a newbie mistake and double posted about this (also in a Denon thread) so will restrict any further musing on this question there. Cheers!
if you’re connecting through wall plates or couplers, those will have to go as well.

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post #19387 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
if you’re connecting through wall plates or couplers, those will have to go as well.
So I've gathered. At this point, if I can find someone who can run the new wiring and the cost isn't too prohibitive, it sounds like my best bet is to run two continuous fibre optic cables direct from the Denon receiver to the Sony projector (i.e. replace not only the existing in-ceiling HDMI cable but also the HDMI cable currently running from the receiver into the 'wall plate' under my stairs).

People like yourself on these forums are so generous and knowledgeable - I'm very grateful. Thank you!

4K/3D Projector: Sony VPL-VW295es | Screen: 120" 16x9 framed 'Screen Goo’ (Digital Grey) | 4K Player: Panasonic DP-UB820-K | Streaming: Apple TV 4K (64 GB) | Gaming: PS4 (500 GB), PS3 Slim (320 GB) | Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H | Speakers (5.1.4): Axiom VP150 (centre), Axiom M60 x2 (towers), Axiom EP350 (LFE), Axiom QS8 quadpolar x2 (surrounds), Axiom M3 In-Ceiling x4 (atmos) | Remote: Harmony Elite
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post #19388 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
He said the cable has been there for 10 years.

I don't know if that's really true but ... if it's been there for 5 years he needs to replace it. (Not because it's gone stale but ATV4K needs latest HDMI Cables.)
House was built in late 2007, which is when all the initial A/V wiring was done. Not absolutely positive there was HDMI to the projector at that point (for sure I had component cabling going there as well), but I had him back about a year later to do some additional wiring in the place - if I didn't have HDMI to the projector initially, I'm pretty sure I did by that point (i.e. early 2009). In April 2012 I had everything upstairs converted to HDMI at which point for absolute sure the projector was being fed by HDMI.

So: cable is 6 1/2 years old for certain, but is quite possibly 9 1/2'ish years old.

4K/3D Projector: Sony VPL-VW295es | Screen: 120" 16x9 framed 'Screen Goo’ (Digital Grey) | 4K Player: Panasonic DP-UB820-K | Streaming: Apple TV 4K (64 GB) | Gaming: PS4 (500 GB), PS3 Slim (320 GB) | Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H | Speakers (5.1.4): Axiom VP150 (centre), Axiom M60 x2 (towers), Axiom EP350 (LFE), Axiom QS8 quadpolar x2 (surrounds), Axiom M3 In-Ceiling x4 (atmos) | Remote: Harmony Elite
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post #19389 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Note that the default/UI output ATV is whatever you select not 60Hz.
Well, hot damn - they were buried on the 'other formats' screen but you're right that I have the option to choose 4K HDR @30, 25, or 24hz...all of which work on my old cable! Yay!

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you most kindly!
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post #19390 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 12:15 PM
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I run a 25 foot fiber optic HDMI cable. IT was about $100. Seems to work amazing.
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post #19391 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 12:18 PM
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Do I actually *need* 4K HDR @60HZ?

Hello yet again folks. My apologies for filling your inboxes, but I think I've just about got this issue sorted.

So it ends up that my old in-ceiling cable can handle 4K HDR @30, 25, or 24Hz (yay!).

First question: if I don't have cable or satellite, am I ever even going to notice that I don't have 4K HDR @60Hz? I very rarely stream live television (like, the Oscars are about the only reliable thing each year) and when I do it's not going to be in 4K anyway. So am I good then?

Second question: which 4K HDR setting should I choose: 30, 25 or 24? I know probably every movie I'm ever going to buy on iTunes or stream (e.g. via Plex) is going to be @24Hz, but I noticed that the ATV UI was pretty rough @24Hz and seemed more-or-less normal @30Hz

Thank you to everyone who has been so generous with their time and contributions!!! Perhaps I won't need to run new in-ceiling wiring after all. Well, except for the four Atmos speakers I have yet to purchase...

4K/3D Projector: Sony VPL-VW295es | Screen: 120" 16x9 framed 'Screen Goo’ (Digital Grey) | 4K Player: Panasonic DP-UB820-K | Streaming: Apple TV 4K (64 GB) | Gaming: PS4 (500 GB), PS3 Slim (320 GB) | Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H | Speakers (5.1.4): Axiom VP150 (centre), Axiom M60 x2 (towers), Axiom EP350 (LFE), Axiom QS8 quadpolar x2 (surrounds), Axiom M3 In-Ceiling x4 (atmos) | Remote: Harmony Elite
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post #19392 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
Hello yet again folks. My apologies for filling your inboxes, but I think I've just about got this issue sorted.

So it ends up that my old in-ceiling cable can handle 4K HDR @30, 25, or 24Hz (yay!).

First question: if I don't have cable or satellite, am I ever even going to notice that I don't have 4K HDR @60Hz? I very rarely stream live television (like, the Oscars are about the only reliable thing each year) and when I do it's not going to be in 4K anyway. So am I good then?

Second question: which 4K HDR setting should I choose: 30, 25 or 24? I know probably every movie I'm ever going to buy on iTunes or stream (e.g. via Plex) is going to be @24Hz, but I noticed that the ATV UI was pretty rough @24Hz and seemed more-or-less normal @30Hz

Thank you to everyone who has been so generous with their time and contributions!!! Perhaps I won't need to run new in-ceiling wiring after all. Well, except for the four Atmos speakers I have yet to purchase...
In my experience with 30hz to my LGC6, the only problem you might have would be with judder (I think it's the right term). If you are not sensitive to that and if your projector handles the conversion from 30 to 24 adequately there is no other downside that I am aware of to using 30.
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post #19393 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post

Second question: which 4K HDR setting should I choose: 30, 25 or 24?
Please refer to the first post in this thread. Your UI/default shouldn't be HDR of any flavor. If you want to continue using HDMI High Speed cabling then the suggested value would be [email protected]/SDR with Match on. The UI/default video format is independent of and unrelated to content if you have both range and rate matching enabled, the resolution is set to 4K and the app isn't defective.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19394 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 01:19 PM
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Please refer to the first post in this thread....The UI/default video format is independent of and unrelated to content if you have both range and rate matching enabled, the resolution is set to 4K and the app isn't defective.
Ok, I've finally done what you've patiently asked me to do twice. Sorry - so much new equipment, so many things to set up and learn, so much to read, and now so many posts to reply to . I'm blown away by the degree of helpfulness and investment in AVS Forum. Who says there aren't still nice corners to be found on the interwebs

Very interesting - so if I understood that post, and the above, correctly, even if I have 4K SDR @60Hz enabled (which my cable can handle ably), any content I have on iTunes which is 4K HDR @24Hz will play in HDR provided that I have the match settings for frame rate and dynamic range toggled? Cool! Thank you!
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post #19395 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 02:00 PM
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The bigger question is how long can those "premium" services, which cost as much or more than Netflix, hold out on offering their original series in 4K HDR? Netflix and Amazon have been doing it for a couple years now already!
About 4 months ago Game of Thrones Season 1 just came out on 4K blu-ray and with Dolby Vision and Atmos. I'm sure the other seasons will be available . Be awesome if the final season is broadcast 4k UHD.

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post #19396 of 24946 Old 11-09-2018, 02:54 PM
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Last night I redeemed Hunt for Red October 4K/DV on iTunes. It looks really really dark on my B6. When I try to increase the brightness, I get washed out blacks suggesting that my settings are right. Other DV titles look gorgeous. So it's not my set. I also tried to play it in SDR mode and it only looked marginally better. On a whim, I fired up my Roku Ultra and launched the UltraFlix app. It has a 4K preview of the same movie. Wow, there is incredible details in the dark areas which are missing from the iTunes version. Anyone own this title? Go to the scene towards the beginning of the movie where he is on a red eye flight and where the stewardess approaches his seat - on the UltraFlix version I can see all the details on her suit. Not so on the iTunes version. Very disappointed.
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post #19397 of 24946 Old 11-10-2018, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Last night I redeemed Hunt for Red October 4K/DV on iTunes. It looks really really dark on my B6. When I try to increase the brightness, I get washed out blacks suggesting that my settings are right. Other DV titles look gorgeous. So it's not my set. I also tried to play it in SDR mode and it only looked marginally better. On a whim, I fired up my Roku Ultra and launched the UltraFlix app. It has a 4K preview of the same movie. Wow, there is incredible details in the dark areas which are missing from the iTunes version. Anyone own this title? Go to the scene towards the beginning of the movie where he is on a red eye flight and where the stewardess approaches his seat - on the UltraFlix version I can see all the details on her suit. Not so on the iTunes version. Very disappointed.
I own it. I have never seen it. Got it with the rest of the Jack Ryan collection. The entire JR collection has a problem with my projector (see ATV4K/Sony video blackout thread) so I've only watched the first 5 minutes of HFRO and I think it looked pretty drab.
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post #19398 of 24946 Old 11-10-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
He said the cable has been there for 10 years.

I don't know if that's really true but ... if it's been there for 5 years he needs to replace it. (Not because it's gone stale but ATV4K needs latest HDMI Cables.)
BJC series 1 cables were available then. I have one at 25' and it works. I contacted BJC back when the "certification" program started and asked about the Series 1. Reply was that Series 1 was so thick that it would be destroyed during the certification process' test to wrap the cable around a very small diameter pipe. So, BJC was not going to submit Series 1 for certification, but they "could" work. These cables have very large conductors, compared to standard, but use the same connectors and joining process; which makes them better over long transmission distances.
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post #19399 of 24946 Old 11-10-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
BJC series 1 cables were available then. I have one at 25' and it works. I contacted BJC back when the "certification" program started and asked about the Series 1. Reply was that Series 1 was so thick that it would be destroyed during the certification process' test to wrap the cable around a very small diameter pipe. So, BJC was not going to submit Series 1 for certification, but they "could" work. These cables have very large conductors, compared to standard, but use the same connectors and joining process; which makes them better over long transmission distances.


I also have a ~7 year old 25-foot BJC Series 1 going to my projector. I just upgraded my projector from the JVC RS35 to the JVC RS540.

Since the RS540 has two HDMI inputs, I decided to add a newer 25-foot HDMI cable to go along with the Series 1, and settled on. BJC Series 3A.

I haven’t finished fully setting up the projector, but plan on testing the Series 1 to see what I can push through it. I tested the Series 3A before installing it in the conduit, and it passed the ATV 4K cable test.

When I upgraded my family room TV to 4K UHD, my 45-foot BJC Series 1 could only pass [email protected], so I replaced that with a Ruipro hybrid fiber HDMI cable. If there had been enough room in that conduit run (smaller than the projector conduit run), I would have kept that cable in place also.

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post #19400 of 24946 Old 11-10-2018, 02:19 PM
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My concern is transfer speed for 4K UHD atoms movies - does it do well playing them back? I am trying not to over-do it on a $500 SSD which will surely do the trick - looking for anyone having success on something not quite as $$$.
Note that you will not be streaming any Atmos from a HDD through the ATV, as it is speculated that Apple will most likely never allow such shenanigans
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post #19401 of 24946 Old 11-10-2018, 03:58 PM
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Another example on Netflix of the Apple TV 4K being unable to output pure 24.000 fps with Match Frame Rate ON.


New program Outlaw King was shot & produced at 24.000 fps.


But the Apple TV 4K can only output at 23.976fps, resulting in a skpped frame every 41 seconds as it tries to 'catch up'. Very annoying.


Apple needs to add pure 24.000 fps output to Match Frame Rate options.

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post #19402 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 03:52 AM
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is there a way to control (navigate libraries, etc) ATV4K from an app when the display it is connected to is not on? On occasion I want to listen to music through ATV4K in theater room and not turn on the projector.

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post #19403 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
Do you mean where you run another type of wire and then put HDMI adapters on each end (sorry for my lack of wiring knowledge )? That's what the guy did way-back-when for my Zone 2 televisions upstairs. I think he called it Cat5 or maybe Cat7?

Right now I'm having some difficulty finding someone locally (London, Ontario, Canada) to run in-ceiling wiring for me (both to potentially replace this old HDMI cable, and also to add four in-ceiling Atmos speakers). Depending upon who I find (if anyone!) and what it costs I may just decide to leave it as is. The 4K itself still looks awesome even in SDR, and my Panny 820 is able to send 4K HDR via the existing cable.

Thank you!
Just to say there is no need these days to go for cables with separate adapters. There are very easy to use integrated fiber cables around. This is what I currently use and has a very good reputation in custom install circles: https://www.ruipro.com/
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post #19404 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 06:05 AM
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Hi was having trouble with either my ATV or Samsung K950 last night. Picture was cutting out and also was not letting me switch to 4:2:2 from 4:2:0. ATV is connected to soundbar and then ARC to tv. Also HDMI was getting hot on soundbar bar side input from ATV! When I connect ATV straight to tv it works fine. I am getting HDR and Atmos from the ATV thru the soundbar. But not from 4:2:2? I’m using monoprice high speed certified cables! I’ve tested several of them so I can rule some of them out! I have slim types and larger gauge ones. I’m using the slim ones for better fit connection? Also forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2? I will post in the Samsung K950 thread too. Thanks in advance!

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post #19405 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 06:06 AM
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Hi was having trouble with either my ATV or Samsung K950 last night. Picture was cutting out and also was not letting me switch to 4:2:2 from 4:2:0. ATV is connected to soundbar and then ARC to tv. Also HDMI was getting hot on soundbar bar side input from ATV! When I connect ATV straight to tv it works fine. I am getting HDR and Atmos from the ATV thru the soundbar. But not from 4:2:2? I’m using monoprice high speed certified cables! I’ve tested several of them so I can rule some of them out! I have slim types and larger gauge ones. I’m using the slim ones for better fit connection? Also forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2? I will post in the Samsung K950 thread too. Thanks in advance!

Sony 55 A9F
Panasonic DP-UB820
Sony UBP-X700
Samsung HW-K950 Dolby Atmos sound bar
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post #19406 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
Just to say there is no need these days to go for cables with separate adapters. There are very easy to use integrated fiber cables around. This is what I currently use and has a very good reputation in custom install circles: https://www.ruipro.com/


I use the same RUIPRO cables for a 12 meter run with good success.
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post #19407 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 07:32 AM
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I just noticed an update for the ATV?
Or am I behind time..
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post #19408 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by barhoram View Post
is there a way to control (navigate libraries, etc) ATV4K from an app when the display it is connected to is not on? On occasion I want to listen to music through ATV4K in theater room and not turn on the projector.


If you have an Apple device then yes. You just AirPlay music to your Apple TV.
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post #19409 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post
I just noticed an update for the ATV?

Or am I behind time..


If you have anything lower than 12.1 (16J602) you are behind.


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post #19410 of 24946 Old 11-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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Is anybody else seeing updates of blank cover images after waking up taking a very, very long time? It used to be pretty close to instant but the latest os update seems to have screwed it up.
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