Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 722 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21631 of 24924 Old 03-25-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I thought all HDR content supported at least HDR10 as a baseline and then DV for those devices which supported DV.
That is only in the 4K Blu-ray spec of Dolby Vision where it requires a HDR10 base layer and is the reason that the Apple TV does an internal conversion from Dolby Vision to HDR10 for non-compatible sets, which results in errors at times.
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post #21632 of 24924 Old 03-25-2019, 11:01 PM
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Hmm, so a streaming service would have to have two graded versions of the movie, one graded in HDR10 and the other in DV?

I know that HDR+ was going to have difficulty getting traction because it was reported that UHD BD discs didn't have enough capacity to have both DV and HDR+ graded versions.
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post #21633 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Derek87 View Post
So, i spoke with Apple about my issues with A Star is Born (2018), and according to their information, they are supposed to be streaming a 5.1 movie, unlike the 7.1 stream (with empty rear surround channels) which my unit feeds into my AV Processor.

does anyone have any experience with any iTunes movies delivering 7.1 sound to their setup? the lone movie in the my collection that works is Monsters, Inc., yet iTunes store lists this as 5.1 sound, so it is clear that the database is not accurate and what is being sent isn't consist with what is listed...
This has been a known issue with the Apple TV 4th and 5th generation since it's inception. For movies / shows that are supposed to be 5.1, a 7.1 signal is sent to the receiver with the surround back having no audio. There are movies with 7.1 sound which work just fine "Terminator Genisys". I notice this issue a lot less now on my Apple TV 4K with titles that offer Dolby Atmos. I believe "A Star Is Born" 2018 is an Atmos capable title. Off course your AVR also need to be Dolby Atmos capable.

The one issue I am experiencing with the latest AMC app and updated Apple TV 4K to tvOS 12.2 is that when I select to play a show "Walking Dead" it tries to load and I hear a chime and back to home screen. Last week's episode was 1 hour 25 minutes and my DVR only recorded the first hour because the guide was never updated to reflect the longer running time. I was able to finish watching the episode on my Xbox One S
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post #21634 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 03:52 AM
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(not quite ATV)

I tried and love the new magazine service announced yesterday, If I subscribe when the trial is over it will be 100% because the cost for family is the same as individual. I want to reward Apple every time they do that. Makes sharing with and giving to my family very nice.
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post #21635 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 06:22 AM
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There's inclusion of other platform devices but with services like News, Arcade and Apple Card and family share to boot (adding value), there's the Eco System appeal I'm looking for. Gaming isn't so important to me but family friendly gaming may be important going forward; my daughter has many friends into it that.

I'm not in the Apple Eco System but have been considering it for less ad tracking and increased privacy appeal. I'm also entering the smart home device world with Amazon but trying to focus on device compatibility with HomeKit and Google Assistant to not be so dependant on Amazon. There is the echo and Fire TV devices I own but I'm not so impressed yet. I couldn't help but notice the ad free focus as well Apple has been presenting. Price would be a huge deciding factor. Google relies on ad supported content and TV is full of this same aspect and yet very expensive? Conundrum. If Apple can show a better way without excess, got my attention.

I'd like to see bundles of these services to add more appeal. I think the TV portion of the bill may need an offset with other services with family value. Ad free content and better services (terms, security, privacy) may be the ticket to generate more iPhone sales. I don't think the irony is lost with Apple right now.

My family is also split between platforms. I'm currently dealing with it and not so compelled to cross over to iOS. But I do see potential to possibly make that transition easy. Apple TV was my latest experience as a device owner (early iPod adapter but left). Not sure about now but before my ATV4K, I despised the fact that I needed an Apple device to view Apple events. I used to laugh when I read about streaming issues with such limited view options for those outsiders. But also appreciated the inclusiveness I finally got with my ATV4K (best way to view Apple events). But then there's also the frustrating need for an iOS device to setup HomeKit that keeps me weary of Apple too. I'm still an outsider in many ways. And cautious.

I think it's good to add to the device compatibility, especially with smart devices and family services. Late for me but ironically, it's focus of new services that's what is potentially making the Apple Eco System appealing again. I've been considering Apple Watch for some time but health aspects alone weren't so appealing to get me to jump. Still undecided though; 5G, 5G availability and costs are huge time factors and much is left to be answered in cost and not readily available. Will Apple Watch battery capacity increase to add official sleep monitoring to health focus? That's another factor for me. Charge just lasting a day won't do. Need greater than a day to accomplish sleep monitoring support. Aging heart here; I want/need a greater focus on health. Apple Watch may be what I'm looking for but not completely there yet.

Google still has some time to reply as well. But Google's approach needs some serious redirecting if Apple gets services done right. Just my opinion and I've shared that with Google today. Keeping TV prices low may be smart for them too. But I'm also questioning the cancelling of adfree content and focusing on ad supported content. How does this effect me as a YouTube Red subscriber? Less adfree content going forward? None I could hope but that isn't very forward looking either; I've been pressing Google to make a bundle of YouTube Premium or Red mean more for less ads on YTTV. If not, maybe I need Google less going forward? I need answers, Google.

Bundles should mean more than just paying more. Show me some true value and you've got my attention.

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post #21636 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Hmm, so a streaming service would have to have two graded versions of the movie, one graded in HDR10 and the other in DV?
I know that HDR+ was going to have difficulty getting traction because it was reported that UHD BD discs didn't have enough capacity to have both DV and HDR+ graded versions.
The added storage is inconsequential. Netflix maintains a library of many formats for content that is actually streamed. At one time they rendered on demand (and cached the output). I don't know if they still do that. They also announced a move toward having a single (DoVi) grade for all original content and would derive streams from that master. Both DoVi and HDR10+ have an automated pipeline to derive lesser grades from the original dynamic HDR content.


To date Apple has opted to convert 4K DoVi to HDR10 in the ATV4K. What they will do on less capable platforms will probably evolve.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21637 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brotony View Post
Will Apple Watch battery capacity increase to add official sleep monitoring to health focus?
This has nothing to do with the ATV but if you have ~45 minutes between when you wake and when you want to put your watch (back) on that's enough time to charge it. The S4 watches can last about 30 hours on a full charge.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21638 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
I regularly use the TV app to track and launch content in Prime Video and, if available, it has always correctly launched the 4K HDR version of the title, rather than the HD version.
Well okay then. I really don't like the TV app so I don't use it but if it reliably fetches multi-channel/HDR content then it has some utility. Perhaps the Channels release will result in a clean-up but I doubt it.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21639 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
I just do a full 1:1 backup with the folders in tact and no conversion. Infuse on the Apple TV will read the folders and just play the movie with lossless audio but it falls back to HDR10.
So you just point your Plex server app to the folder with subfolders full of ripped movies that are still in their original file structure, and Infuse can figure out, via its interaction with the Plex server, how to play the movies therein?

If that's the case, I feel like an idiot having converted everything to lossless MKV!
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post #21640 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
So you just point your Plex server app to the folder with subfolders full of ripped movies that are still in their original file structure, and Infuse can figure out, via its interaction with the Plex server, how to play the movies therein?



If that's the case, I feel like an idiot having converted everything to lossless MKV!


Infuse doesn’t need a Plex server, just a network share. Infuse is an independent app that has a Plex plugin for those who already have Plex.
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post #21641 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The added storage is inconsequential. Netflix maintains a library of many formats for content that is actually streamed. At one time they rendered on demand (and cached the output). I don't know if they still do that. They also announced a move toward having a single (DoVi) grade for all original content and would derive streams from that master. Both DoVi and HDR10+ have an automated pipeline to derive lesser grades from the original dynamic HDR content.


To date Apple has opted to convert 4K DoVi to HDR10 in the ATV4K. What they will do on less capable platforms will probably evolve.
But DV versions have to have their own versions and isn’t automated? I recall stories about colorists for movies working on the DV grading, manually.

I didn’t think HDR10+ had much traction.
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post #21642 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
So you just point your Plex server app to the folder with subfolders full of ripped movies that are still in their original file structure, and Infuse can figure out, via its interaction with the Plex server, how to play the movies therein?

If that's the case, I feel like an idiot having converted everything to lossless MKV!
I don't use a Plex server as it doesn't recognize the movies in a a BDMV movie structure. (Also doesn't allow the HDDs in my NAS to spin down during idle.) As Ph8te mentioned, Infuse can directly connect to network shares, which is what I use and then Infuse stores the metadata and my progress through each movie which syncs across all my devices.
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post #21643 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Hmm, so a streaming service would have to have two graded versions of the movie, one graded in HDR10 and the other in DV?

I know that HDR+ was going to have difficulty getting traction because it was reported that UHD BD discs didn't have enough capacity to have both DV and HDR+ graded versions.
Correct, services like Netflix and Vudu have two different versions.

I hadn't heard about discs not having enough space but having backed up my own discs and looking at the media info the Dolby Vision extension layer is a 1080p file that sits next to the main 4K HDR10 base layer, I just can't seem to find a good way to see how large the extension layer is but I can't imagine it would be all that large.
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post #21644 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:22 AM
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Did you pay a onetime fee for all versions of Infuse across all your devices to unlock all the codecs?

I thought they had some monthly subscription scheme.

I’ve run across some little know player apps which were asking over $200 to unlock AC3 and other codecs.

I’m happy with VLC and Plex. Don’t like the business model of some of these player app developers.

Also wasn’t too impressed by the UI of Infuse.
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post #21645 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Did you pay a onetime fee for all versions of Infuse across all your devices to unlock all the codecs?

I thought they had some monthly subscription scheme.

I’ve run across some little know player apps which were asking over $200 to unlock AC3 and other codecs.

I’m happy with VLC and Plex. Don’t like the business model of some of these player app developers.

Also wasn’t too impressed by the UI of Infuse.
I just do the $10/yr subscription which works across my phone, iPad, and Apple TVs. The reason I do yearly is if something else comes along and I switch players.

Infuse works great as it plays my backups perfectly with no hiccups and decodes the TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks and sends them along via PCM. I also find the UI great as it is responsive and organized.
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post #21646 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Infuse doesn’t need a Plex server, just a network share. Infuse is an independent app that has a Plex plugin for those who already have Plex.
I've seen the area in Infuse that says something like "connect to Plex" but I haven't. Does it add anything to Infuse by connecting to Plex?

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post #21647 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:48 AM
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I've seen the area in Infuse that says something like "connect to Plex" but I haven't. Does it add anything to Infuse by connecting to Plex?
It allows you to connect it to a Plex server which is managing the file sharing, progress in media, and metadata. I've seen multiple people prefer using a Plex server backend in conjunction with Infuse front end instead of the Plex front end on the Apple TV.
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post #21648 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The added storage is inconsequential. Netflix maintains a library of many formats for content that is actually streamed. At one time they rendered on demand (and cached the output). I don't know if they still do that. They also announced a move toward having a single (DoVi) grade for all original content and would derive streams from that master. Both DoVi and HDR10+ have an automated pipeline to derive lesser grades from the original dynamic HDR content.


To date Apple has opted to convert 4K DoVi to HDR10 in the ATV4K. What they will do on less capable platforms will probably evolve.
The only "lesser platforms" mentioned in the presentation were Samsung and Roku. The others LG, Sony, Vizio and FireTV currently support Dolby Vision.
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post #21649 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:57 AM
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So here’s probably a naive question: why wouldn’t Apple TV+ simply follow a similar design as Apple Music and make all video in the iTunes Store available for streaming? THAT would be a gamechanger/Netflix breaker. I’d immediately cancel every other streaming service I have and would be willing to put just about all of that found money into an Apple TV+ subscription fee every month.
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post #21650 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
This has nothing to do with the ATV but if you have ~45 minutes between when you wake and when you want to put your watch (back) on that's enough time to charge it. The S4 watches can last about 30 hours on a full charge.


Perhaps he also wants 4K DV on his watch as well and the updated TV app so he can watch in bed. :-p
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post #21651 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:01 AM
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This has been a known issue with the Apple TV 4th and 5th generation since it's inception. For movies / shows that are supposed to be 5.1, a 7.1 signal is sent to the receiver with the surround back having no audio. There are movies with 7.1 sound which work just fine "Terminator Genisys". I notice this issue a lot less now on my Apple TV 4K with titles that offer Dolby Atmos. I believe "A Star Is Born" 2018 is an Atmos capable title. Off course your AVR also need to be Dolby Atmos capable.
yeah, my AV Processor doesn't do Atmos nor do i have any Atmos speakers. no real intention to do some in the near future, so i guess it's something i'll have to live with. i may ultimately spring for a UHD player. i was about to pull the trigger on a Oppo 203, but they went out of business. i'm still waiting though for Redbox to hopefully start renting 4K discs in my area (SF Bay Area)...if they did that, i'd quickly by a player.

Another question:

are most movies Dolby Digital Plus, or are they just Dolby Digital (5.1) as listed on the iTunes store?
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post #21652 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
But DV versions have to have their own versions and isn’t automated?
In Dolby's ideal world you do a master DoVi grade, then trim passes for theatrical, disc, streaming etc. distribution and then generate HDR10/SDR automatically. This is why it's not unreasonable for Apple to generate HDR10 from DoVi. In reality it's not that tidy.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21653 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:10 AM
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So here’s probably a naive question: why wouldn’t Apple TV+ simply follow a similar design as Apple Music and make all video in the iTunes Store available for streaming? THAT would be a gamechanger/Netflix breaker. I’d immediately cancel every other streaming service I have and would be willing to put just about all of that found money into an Apple TV+ subscription fee every month.


All content in the iTunes store is already available for streaming. They just want you to purchase each title.

But yes I will switch instantly( provided the price is right)

But for now they can't even get everything in itunes. You don't have 4k for Disney due to price disputes etc.


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post #21654 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
So here’s probably a naive question: why wouldn’t Apple TV+ simply follow a similar design as Apple Music and make all video in the iTunes Store available for streaming? THAT would be a gamechanger/Netflix breaker. I’d immediately cancel every other streaming service I have and would be willing to put just about all of that found money into an Apple TV+ subscription fee every month.
Because it would be unbelievably costly and take many years of drafting up terms with all the various studios. It is the same reason Netflix doesn't have everything and cycles out content also why game service subscriptions don't have everything.
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post #21655 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:14 AM
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I thought all HDR content supported at least HDR10 as a baseline and then DV for those devices which supported DV.
This is true for discs, not sure about streaming. My point, however, is that the lack of DV on ROKU can be a minus for those who believe DV looks better than HDR. I am yet to make up my mind on this but I don't like ITUNES DV material when played in HDR ( my av receiver doesn't support DV).

I was so happy without HDR...
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post #21656 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Because it would be unbelievably costly and take many years of drafting up terms with all the various studios. It is the same reason Netflix doesn't have everything and cycles out content also why game service subscriptions don't have everything.
Why more so than with Apple Music though? There is similarly a dizzying number of artists/labels involved.

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post #21657 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Derek87 View Post
Another question: are most movies Dolby Digital Plus, or are they just Dolby Digital (5.1) as listed on the iTunes store?
What you see in the iTunes store is not necessarily what's available so don't use that as a touchstone. E-AC3 (DD+) is more efficient (and carries Atmos) than AC-3 so there are reasons to use it independent of the number of channels.


The IMDB list (search generated) of 7.1 movies has 1,117 entries. While most modern US motion pictures have a 7.1 mix I don't think that's a majority of all movies since the iTunes store alone has over 65,000 movies.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #21658 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
Why more so than with Apple Music though? There is similarly a dizzying number of artists/labels involved.
Maybe the music file sharing deflated the industry value/song to the point of vulnerability.

I do like Apple Music. I have it for the family and like it. It works well with ATV4K.

=Brian
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post #21659 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
What you see in the iTunes store is not necessarily what's available so don't use that as a touchstone. E-AC3 (DD+) is more efficient (and carries Atmos) than AC-3 so there are reasons to use it independent of the number of channels.


The IMDB list (search generated) of 7.1 movies has 1,117 entries. While most modern US motion pictures have a 7.1 mix I don't think that's a majority of all movies since the iTunes store alone has over 65,000 movies.
i hope iTunes is using E-AC3 in general. unless it's a placebo effect, in finally being able to go with "Best Available"/Auto Audio settings on the ATV4k (vs. forcing DolbyDigital5.1) now that i bought the HDFury device to split the Audio and Video output of the ATV4k, i have notice a much better sound coming from my system. i still think the lossless audio coming from a BR disc on my Oppo 83 sounds better than iTunes, but it's now more acceptable.

it's a trade off i keep waffling about (renting a BR from Redbox for better sound but 1080p image vs. iTunes 4K HDR but lesser sound quality)

UPDATE: i just learned that Redbox is starting rent 4k discs in my area (SF Bay Area)...i couldn't get a straight answer from customer support as to which Kiosks, but i'm going to have to visit my local ones to find out (their online system doesn't allow you to reserve 4K discs online)...hopefully, they will start popping up at my usual kiosks.
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Last edited by Derek87; 03-26-2019 at 10:34 AM.
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post #21660 of 24924 Old 03-26-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdmckinl View Post
So here’s probably a naive question: why wouldn’t Apple TV+ simply follow a similar design as Apple Music and make all video in the iTunes Store available for streaming?
Because the motion picture business is nothing like the music business. Here's one data point: There are about 65,000 movies in the iTunes but 40,000,000 songs. An expensive album costs out on the order of $100k, an expensive movie is $200M (average cost $90M while Avatar was $400M). Piracy was such a problem that the major record labels were (finally) willing to package up their catalogs for companies like Apple and Spotify to sell in bulk (and now that's how they make money). The motion picture studios are not there yet and may never be (in the US).

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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