Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 760 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22771 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
Has anything definitive been found re which Make/Model AVRs work well with the ATV4K re audio sync, DV pass thru, etc.?

The HDMI ports/chips on my current unit, a Denon AVR-1713 (pre Atmos, 4K, HDR) are dying so it's time for a new AVR. Will be mostly using with an ATV4K and a 2016 LG OLED (E6P).

Much thanks.

I have a Yamaha Aventage A-780 and a 65 C8 in use with my ATV4k. No issues whatsoever.

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post #22772 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post

I can confirm that it absolutely can do this. A scene is essentially a snapshot of settings. It can be as minor as saving different audio delays and as major as saving speaker settings, inputs, video, surround modes etc. I think you can save 8 separate scenes (I only use 2)


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Thanks, looks like I’ll start researching Yamaha AVRs
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post #22773 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I have a Yamaha Aventage A-780 and a 65 C8 in use with my ATV4k. No issues whatsoever.


Yeah it’s an odd one. I had a Yamaha 3050, ATV4k and an LG E6 with absolutely zero issues. Then I upgraded my amp to a Yamaha 3070 and now I have to set different delays when switching between 23.976hz material and 50hz tv content. I didn’t change anything else. I even plugged everything into exactly the same inputs when upgrading amps.


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post #22774 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
I'm missing something ... If the TV can compensate for it's own lag when plugged directly to the ATV then why can't it also compensate when it connected to the AVR?
Because the TV gets the audio and the video together. In your case your AVR is getting the audio and video which is in sync and the AVR is passing along the video but your TV is slow to process the image so the video is behind the audio.

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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
I'm hoping what you're saying is true for most/all current AVRs! When looking at new AVRs to purchase, would the feature I'm looking for simply be called "pass-through"?

With my current AVR, an older Denon 1713 that I'm replacing, the video processing cannot be "defeated" per conversations with Denon tech support. Their only advice was that HDMI "in" ports physically closest to the HDMI "out" ports would have the most secure/consistent "timing". Unfortunately at the time I did not think to ask them about current Denon AVR models ...
The problem is not "pass through" the problem is your TV is slow to process the image and this is not a problem with the AVR, it is a problem with your TV. If AVRs are doing image processing that would induce delay they tend to resync the audio to that new delay.

What you need is an AVR that allows you to adjust lip sync / audio delay for your TV.
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post #22775 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by talldrink67 View Post
Watched John Wick Chapter 2 last night on the 12.4 beta. The issue is still there

I have an LG OLED C6


Have you tried watching via the movies app rather than the tv app? I just saw pulsing in how to train your dragon and switching to the movies app fixed it.


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post #22776 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
I'm missing something ... If the TV can compensate for it's own lag when plugged directly to the ATV then why can't it also compensate when it connected to the AVR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Because the TV gets the audio and the video together. In your case your AVR is getting the audio and video which is in sync and the AVR is passing along the video but your TV is slow to process the image so the video is behind the audio ...
Got it - makes sense - will test that tonight ...
ATV to AVR to TV
The HDMI signal from the AVR to the TV still carries both video and audio. If I turn on/up the TV speakers then the audio coming from the TV speakers should be out of sync with the audio coming from the AVR speakers. (Because the TV speakers audio will be delayed by the TV's built in compensation.)

If this test works it's given me another idea of a fix to try. But I'll test that first before posting it. (Odds of success are [pitifully] low ...)

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post #22777 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 03:12 PM
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I have three 4kATV boxes only 1 of them somehow allows me to do Dolby Atmos tho they all are the same .Can't figure it out.

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post #22778 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 03:12 PM
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... In a sense this seems like three related though somewhat different issues (maybe part of why it's so hard to fix or even discuss?).
Fixed video delay - the delay is consistent regardless of the video format ... 24hz vs 60hz, SDR vs HDR10 vs DV, etc. (probably not the case with the ATV? or with DV?)
Variable fixed video delay - the delay is different based on the video format, but, the different delay rates are consistent.
Floating video delay - a total crap shoot, ever changing, never consistent, etc.

When I first hooked up my ATV-AVR-LGE6 I had a horrible floating video delay. I did figure out some TV settings that eliminated the "floating" part of the sync issues.

I'm now in the "Variable fixed video delay" stage. Anything that's 24hz (23.976) has one audio-sync value set on the AVR (this includes any 30i or 60i footage that the TV can successfully inverse telecine back to 24hz). And then a separate audio-sync value for any 60hz footage that can't be re-conformed to 24hz by the TV (for instance my TV can't do anything with 60p source).

All a total pisser. I really like the ATV (the ease of use is great for the family and I like being able to download, at least HD copies, of everything for various reasons). The audio sync issue is the one big downside at the moment ...
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post #22779 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 03:56 PM
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This is why TVs should have HDMI outputs to send the audio down to the AVR.
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post #22780 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
This is why TVs should have HDMI outputs to send the audio down to the AVR.
They do, it is called ARC.
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post #22781 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
Has anything definitive been found re which Make/Model AVRs work well with the ATV4K re audio sync, DV pass thru, etc.?
FWIW, I have a my TV 4K goes into my Onkyo TX-NR777 and then into my Sony XBR-75X940E via Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI cables. No apparent issues.
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post #22782 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
They do, it is called ARC.
I thought that was only for the TV antenna or built in app audio?
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post #22783 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 06:05 PM
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I thought that was only for the TV antenna or built in app audio?
No, just any audio that originates from the TV, even if it is being fed from another HDMI input.
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post #22784 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
This is why TVs should have HDMI outputs to send the audio down to the AVR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
They do, it is called ARC.
My take was that the first quote was referring to HDMI audio output that was full featured and not with ARC's current limitations ... i.e. carries all the full range and uncompressed audio formats that HDMI already allows but ARC does not ...
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post #22785 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
My take was that the first quote was referring to HDMI audio output that was full featured and not with ARC's current limitations ... i.e. carries all the full range and uncompressed audio formats that HDMI already allows but ARC does not ...
All roads lead back to your display inducing lag.
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post #22786 of 30384 Old 05-25-2019, 09:16 PM
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All roads lead back to your display inducing lag.
Indeed - still trying to figure out how to manage it. Including trying to figure out the other variables at play in the device pipeline.

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post #22787 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 04:10 AM
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The only sync problem I have with my Apple TV4K is with Prime Video. If I connect the ATV to my Denon receiver and then connect the receiver to my Sony TV, there are very obvious sync issues. If I attach the ATV directly to the TV, the sync problems disappear. However, I get the same results with a Roku Ultra and Fire TV Stick 4K. Again, this only happens with the Amazon Prime Video app. Every other app is fine.
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post #22788 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 05:53 AM
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I am thinking of getting an Apple TV 4k because it is the only device that does Atmos on both Netflix and amazon at this time.

Questions please:

1) On 32 vs 64 GB. I mainly want the device to stream Netflix and Amazon movies and shows. I might use some other programs but probably not much. I would think there is no reason to get the 64 GB version. Or is there?

2) On the remote? I notice some devices have awkward fast forward and reverse. By awkward I mean they either go too slow or too fast with little control between those two speeds. Or they jump to too fast after a short time. How is remote control in that regard?

3) Is voice control easy to use or do you have to train it for your voice and what words to say?
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post #22789 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I am thinking of getting an Apple TV 4k because it is the only device that does Atmos on both Netflix and amazon at this time.

Questions please:

1) On 32 vs 64 GB. I mainly want the device to stream Netflix and Amazon movies and shows. I might use some other programs but probably not much. I would think there is no reason to get the 64 GB version. Or is there?

2) On the remote? I notice some devices have awkward fast forward and reverse. By awkward I mean they either go too slow or too fast with little control between those two speeds. Or they jump to too fast after a short time. How is remote control in that regard?

3) Is voice control easy to use or do you have to train it for your voice and what words to say?
I bought the ATV4k for NetFlix ATMOS support (and PSVue multiview support). Their are other streaming devices that support ATMOS on Amazon Prime, Nvidia Shield and FireTV Stick 4k as examples.

If you are just doing streaming 32GB is plenty. Can't answer your other questions, I use Harmony Elite remotes and don't bother with the voice command stuff...I find it faster to just push a button.

Mark
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post #22790 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LDBetaGuy View Post
The only sync problem I have with my Apple TV4K is with Prime Video. If I connect the ATV to my Denon receiver and then connect the receiver to my Sony TV, there are very obvious sync issues. If I attach the ATV directly to the TV, the sync problems disappear. However, I get the same results with a Roku Ultra and Fire TV Stick 4K. Again, this only happens with the Amazon Prime Video app. Every other app is fine.


I think the Denon might be like the Marantz in that auto lip sync can be turned off and the offset adjusted per input.

I used an app and some test clips to get it within a few ms per input device.
Rob.


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post #22791 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 06:34 AM
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I have three 4kATV boxes only 1 of them somehow allows me to do Dolby Atmos tho they all are the same .Can't figure it out.
If your comment about them all being the same means the ATV4K settings, then I don't know. On the off chance that you haven't enabled Atmos in all three, then that would be an issue.
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post #22792 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 06:42 AM
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... I used an app and some test clips to get it within a few ms per input device.
Rob...
Do you mind sharing which app you use to aid with adjusting audio-sync?

Also curious which test clips you use and what method you use to play them on the ATV.

Thanks!

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post #22793 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 07:01 AM
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I think the Denon might be like the Marantz in that auto lip sync can be turned off and the offset adjusted per input.
Yes I have a Denon and it works as you say, per input, and the default delay is 0ms. I've never touched it and have no sync issues w/Prime video fwiw.
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post #22794 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 07:18 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

The thing is we’re dealing with so many different combinations of hardware that it’s not easy to say where the issue is and it’s going to be a nightmare to reproduce.

Take my situation for example. I had zero lip sync issues when passing my audio through a Yamaha 3050. When I upgraded to my 3070, I need to set different delays when switching between 23.976hz material and 25hz material. Why the difference? I have no idea. It would be easy to criticise the amp but everything passes through it and I have zero lip sync issues with other devices. The main feature difference between the two amps is that the newer one supports Dolby Vision. Could this be the issue? And if so, why does it also consistently affect non-Dolby vision content?

Add to this, my harmony failed to correctly switch inputs on my tv once when switching between my Xbox and my Apple TV. I noticed that my lip sync issues disappeared at this point. I probably need to check this out further because it could be due to a range of reasons. My Xbox runs through a different hdmi output on my amp to a different input on my tv...and that channel on my tv has game mode enabled. So it could be that using the second output on my amp fixed lip sync, it could be that using the different input on my tv fixed lip sync or, more likely, it could be that the lower latency game mode on my tv fixed it.

So for people who are not having issues, there could be a ton of things you have set up differently. Maybe you’re using a lower latency picture mode. Maybe your tv doesn’t introduce processing delays when using 23.976hz content and mine does. Even if you have the same TV and picture mode, it could be that I have real cinema set to ‘on’ on my tv whereas you have it off. Maybe you use motion interpolation. People are consistently finding that the Apple TV is the only device in their system which is having difficulties though so it suggests that there is something worth looking into.


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post #22795 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 10:16 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I am thinking of getting an Apple TV 4k because it is the only device that does Atmos on both Netflix and amazon at this time.



Questions please:



1) On 32 vs 64 GB. I mainly want the device to stream Netflix and Amazon movies and shows. I might use some other programs but probably not much. I would think there is no reason to get the 64 GB version. Or is there?




2) On the remote? I notice some devices have awkward fast forward and reverse. By awkward I mean they either go too slow or too fast with little control between those two speeds. Or they jump to too fast after a short time. How is remote control in that regard?




3) Is voice control easy to use or do you have to train it for your voice and what words to say?

I have the 32 GB and have no storage issues. However, I read somewhere that certain apps in the future may may let you download higher resolution copies.

The Apple TV 4K is great. The remote is useless junk. FF is a pain in all apps. Get a Harmony.


Voice is the one feature of the remote that works well. I find it saves time in searching.




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post #22796 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 11:24 AM
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I have the 32 GB and have no storage issues. However, I read somewhere that certain apps in the future may may let you download higher resolution copies.
Thanks.

Higher resolution shows or ap interface?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agerson View Post
The Apple TV 4K is great. The remote is useless junk. FF is a pain in all apps. Get a Harmony.


Voice is the one feature of the remote that works well. I find it saves time in searching.
Is voice good for fast forwarding and reversing in shows while watching? Can you do the go forward 2 minutes in any App?

Also how well does the "what did he just say" that reverses and shows captions work? Can it be done in any Ap, Netflix and Amazon specifically?
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post #22797 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by markmanner View Post
If your comment about them all being the same means the ATV4K settings, then I don't know. On the off chance that you haven't enabled Atmos in all three, then that would be an issue.
Mark
I know what you saying but in the Audio & video settings the Dolby Atmos option doesn't even appear . Strange I changed HDMI cables & reset the boxes to no avail.

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post #22798 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I am thinking of getting an Apple TV 4k because it is the only device that does Atmos on both Netflix and amazon at this time.

Questions please:

1) On 32 vs 64 GB. I mainly want the device to stream Netflix and Amazon movies and shows. I might use some other programs but probably not much. I would think there is no reason to get the 64 GB version. Or is there?

2) On the remote? I notice some devices have awkward fast forward and reverse. By awkward I mean they either go too slow or too fast with little control between those two speeds. Or they jump to too fast after a short time. How is remote control in that regard?

3) Is voice control easy to use or do you have to train it for your voice and what words to say?
The AppleTV remote is either loved or hated. I happen to love it.

I'm not sure if you own any iOS devices ( iPad/iPhone ), but if you do there's a great app available on the App Store from Apple (FREE) - simply named "Remote". It does everything that the included candy bar remote does, plus much more including 10 second FF and RW buttons.

The fast forward and reverse are actually (IMO) really easy and efficient. Simply click on the touch pad during playback and you can swipe left or right - basically scrubbing - forward or reverse. The control is logarithmic so that the scrub speed is variable. The slower you move your thumb/finger the slower the FF or RW.

The voice control does not need any "training".

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post #22799 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 04:59 PM
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The AppleTV remote is either loved or hated. I happen to love it.

I'm not sure if you own any iOS devices ( iPad/iPhone ), but if you do there's a great app available on the App Store from Apple (FREE) - simply named "Remote". It does everything that the included candy bar remote does, plus much more including 10 second FF and RW buttons.

The fast forward and reverse are actually (IMO) really easy and efficient. Simply click on the touch pad during playback and you can swipe left or right - basically scrubbing - forward or reverse. The control is logarithmic so that the scrub speed is variable. The slower you move your thumb/finger the slower the FF or RW.

The voice control does not need any "training".
Unfortunately the app suffers from the same issue that all remotes without hard keys for transport suffer from...you have to look at the screen to hit the right keys. I owned several remotes over the years that were all touch screen, remember the “Pronto”?...very customizable but it had the same issue, you had to look at the screen to hit the right button. A combination of touch screen, for some functions, and hard buttons for others, particularly the transport keys, is more usable, IMHO. But yeah, it’s all personal preference.
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post #22800 of 30384 Old 05-26-2019, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post
The thing is we’re dealing with so many different combinations of hardware that it’s not easy to say where the issue is and it’s going to be a nightmare to reproduce.

Take my situation for example. I had zero lip sync issues when passing my audio through a Yamaha 3050. When I upgraded to my 3070, I need to set different delays when switching between 23.976hz material and 25hz material. Why the difference? I have no idea. It would be easy to criticise the amp but everything passes through it and I have zero lip sync issues with other devices. The main feature difference between the two amps is that the newer one supports Dolby Vision. Could this be the issue? And if so, why does it also consistently affect non-Dolby vision content?

Add to this, my harmony failed to correctly switch inputs on my tv once when switching between my Xbox and my Apple TV. I noticed that my lip sync issues disappeared at this point. I probably need to check this out further because it could be due to a range of reasons. My Xbox runs through a different hdmi output on my amp to a different input on my tv...and that channel on my tv has game mode enabled. So it could be that using the second output on my amp fixed lip sync, it could be that using the different input on my tv fixed lip sync or, more likely, it could be that the lower latency game mode on my tv fixed it.

So for people who are not having issues, there could be a ton of things you have set up differently. Maybe you’re using a lower latency picture mode. Maybe your tv doesn’t introduce processing delays when using 23.976hz content and mine does. Even if you have the same TV and picture mode, it could be that I have real cinema set to ‘on’ on my tv whereas you have it off. Maybe you use motion interpolation. People are consistently finding that the Apple TV is the only device in their system which is having difficulties though so it suggests that there is something worth looking into.


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Yup, so many variables. Is it the cables, inputs, settings, equipment, etc........?
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