Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 788 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23611 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
If you really want a refund. Just call Apple Support. Calmly and politely explain the reasons for your request and let them know that you were denied a refund previously but that you feel that your request should be honored as a fair business practice. I would bet that they will give you a refund if you were polite and persistent. Apple Support has always treated me extremely well over the years as an Apple Customer.
I've already tried that but they say it's their system that won't allow any more refunds. I even spoke with a supervisor and they told me they couldn't help either.

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post #23612 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
I don't have this problem with my Denon AVR-X7200WA. I do have the 48Gbps Monoprice cables everywhere; don't recall if I have the Enhanced HDMI turned-on or not. In any case the only other thing I've read about some Denons is to try using that HDMI input that is physically closest to your Monitor Output. It might be one that is least likely to be considered for video i.e. in my case the closest is the CD input (the 7th). No I haven't had to try this trick myself.
Yeah, I tried moving the Apple 4K HDMI port to the CD instead of the media player port and and still the same issue. I'm gonna try the monoprice cable and see how it goes.
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post #23613 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 05:24 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frdcam View Post
Yeah, I tried moving the Apple 4K HDMI port to the CD instead of the media player port and and still the same issue. I'm gonna try the monoprice cable and see how it goes.


I have a 4300x without any problems including viewing 4K, DV, 24/30/60hz. I have a mixture of amazon and monoprice cables cables.

Denon AVRs are sensitive to “marginal” cables (you can read the Denon forums for more color.) By marginal I mean cables that work when the Denon is not in the chain but fail when connected to the Denon.

The only reason I suspect so many people here have the issue with Denon AVRs is that so many people here have Denon/Marantz AVRs.

Note that you may need to replace both your cables, from the ATV to AVR to TV.
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post #23614 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman0725 View Post
What is the length of the hdmi cable from the Denon to your TV. Is it 4K HDR rated? Also what is the model of your TV?

I recently replaced a long cable (Amazon basics high speed with Ethernet) that had been left behind from the previous owner of my house a few years back when I moved (I just continued using it). I don’t know what the length of this cable was however my receiver had been slow to resolve HDMI handshakes. Costco had a 2-pack of 12 foot 18Gbps 4K + hdr on sale for $17.99 that I decided to jump on.

https://www.costco.com/WireLogic-12-...100376910.html
No way to confirm that they can transmit faster than 18Gbps. "Audio directionality" is a new marketing term that I had not seen yet. Marketing, yes. Accurate, maybe. However, if a new cable works, one that was newer than the one you "inherited, (and probably designed for HDMI 1.4), then that's all that matters.
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post #23615 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
No way to confirm that they can transmit faster than 18Gbps. "Audio directionality" is a new marketing term that I had not seen yet. Marketing, yes. Accurate, maybe. However, if a new cable works, one that was newer than the one you "inherited, (and probably designed for HDMI 1.4), then that's all that matters.


Yes, I was surprised that they said faster than 18Gbps. I was worried the directionality feature might interfere with ARC (if it was even true and not just marketing hype), however I’ve had no issues with ARC. Apparently more expensive cables I’ve seen are also advertising directionality and it has something to do with the shielding being optimized for the direction the signal is being sent. With Costco’s generous return policy I knew I could easily return the cables if I had issues. They were cheap and perform well so I guess that’s all that matters.


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post #23616 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by musicman0725 View Post
Yes, I was surprised that they said faster than 18Gbps. I was worried the directionality feature might interfere with ARC (if it was even true and not just marketing hype), however I’ve had no issues with ARC. Apparently more expensive cables I’ve seen are also advertising directionality and it has something to do with the shielding being optimized for the direction the signal is being sent. With Costco’s generous return policy I knew I could easily return the cables if I had issues. They were cheap and perform well so I guess that’s all that matters.


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Yeah, the directionality marketing had me a bit confused as well because of ARC. If ARC works fine then you're good to go, but that kinda makes their directionality claim a bit suspicious.
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post #23617 of 24979 Old 07-07-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
I have a 4300x without any problems including viewing 4K, DV, 24/30/60hz. I have a mixture of amazon and monoprice cables cables.

Denon AVRs are sensitive to “marginal” cables (you can read the Denon forums for more color.) By marginal I mean cables that work when the Denon is not in the chain but fail when connected to the Denon.

The only reason I suspect so many people here have the issue with Denon AVRs is that so many people here have Denon/Marantz AVRs.

Note that you may need to replace both your cables, from the ATV to AVR to TV.
I'm sorry, but an AVR that is "sensitive to marginal cables......that work when the Denon is not in the chain" is itself marginal. That is the very definition.

....And there are also a lot of people with Yamaha and other AVRs out there. ....And Yamaha are not suggesting people try only using certain HDMI inputs for 4K/60 devices, despite their spec saying otherwise.

Denon should find an AVR that is NOT "sensitive", if a customer can demonstrate all works fine without the AVR in the chain.

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post #23618 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
These are the statistics for the last 90 days. Not sure of the time before because Apple only provides data for 90 days without contacting them for more:

Out of those 17 purchases in 90 days, I've only requested 2 refunds. These 2 refunds were for $4.99 and $.99. I don't think 2 out of 17 purchases is a lot of refunds. That is only about 11% of the total and only 4% of the total in dollars ($5.98/$130.84) requested in refunds.
I know many places (including Costco, Amazon, Best Buy) flag you if you ask for too many refunds; I don’t know your refund history prior to 90 days, but it sounds like this is the case. I think the only recourse for you is to be careful what you buy from the iTunes Store.

Personally, I have never had an issue with the few Apple app/music/movie store refunds I have asked for.
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post #23619 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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4:4:4 chroma is usually used for PC. Most content (movies, tv, sports) use 4:2:0 chroma. PC's and video games use 4:4:4. Yes, Match Dyamic Range and Match Frame Rate are both On.
What about YCbCr vs. High RGB?

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post #23620 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 10:20 AM
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What about YCbCr vs. High RGB?
YCbCr - Y is brightness (luma), Cb is blue minus Y and Cr is red minus Y. RGB is red, green, and blue. YCbCr is closer to how we differentiate colors and is the correct chroma for most displays. RGB (PC levels) can produce richer colors with a higher contrast but may also produce black crush resulting in loss of shadow detail. BD's and DVD's are encoded in YCbCr.

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post #23621 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by frdcam View Post
Yeah, I tried moving the Apple 4K HDMI port to the CD instead of the media player port and and still the same issue. I'm gonna try the monoprice cable and see how it goes.
Please review the section on cable testing in the first post. Note that the recommended settings ([email protected]/SDR, Match ON) only use 300MHz and likewise HDR content ([email protected]) uses 300MHz (9G). That bandwidth is expected of any High Speed (i.e. HDMI category 2) cable, certified or not. If all your cables pass the ATV HDMI Check when connected to your display those cables are fine but it's also worth checking other bandwidth settings per the first post. If the cables pass then insert the AVR and repeat the tests. In 99.9% of cases there are two HDMI issues:
  1. "Sparkles" caused by a defective cable (bandwidth limited by damage).
  2. Black-outs caused by end-to-end HDCP timing issues.
The first is fixed with a new cable. The second is fixed with a firmware update or new electronics (e.g. AVR). Note that HDMI subsystems are usually have no more than four channels so if you have more than four ports you probably have more than one module. In that case check all the ports. If some work and some don't you have defective module. This defect will apply to/effect all 9G sources not just the ATV4K.

If you're not seeing one of those two problems you almost certainly have another issue. E.g. you're using the front port on a recent Denon or you haven't set the port to Enhanced or you haven't enabled UHD on the display or lots of other things.
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post #23622 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 07:12 PM
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Is anyone getting this message when playing 4K Disney movies on the Apple TV 4K, “Content unavailable (-11819). We don’t have a version of this content on Apple TV. Please contact Vudu Customer Care”. This issue happens when skipping to random spots in Disney 4K movies. This issue does not happen with the Movies Anywhere App. Is this a sign that Disney will be dropping playback on their 4K movies on Apple TV 4K’s Vudu App? Also my Apple TV 4K is using tvOS 13 Beta.
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post #23623 of 24979 Old 07-08-2019, 07:27 PM
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Is anyone getting this message when playing 4K Disney movies on the Apple TV 4K, “Content unavailable (-11819). We don’t have a version of this content on Apple TV. Please contact Vudu Customer Care”. This issue happens when skipping to random spots in Disney 4K movies. This issue does not happen with the Movies Anywhere App. Is this a sign that Disney will be dropping playback on their 4K movies on Apple TV 4K’s Vudu App? Also my Apple TV 4K is using tvOS 13 Beta.


I have not had any issues with 4K Disney content on Vudu with my ATV4K. I’m not running the beta of tvOS 13. I doubt they would remove this feature as you’ve paid for the movie in UHD on Vudu. Disney doesn’t care what streaming device you are using rather they care about their licensing agreements and what service you are using (Vudu, iTunes, Netflix, Disney+).


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post #23624 of 24979 Old 07-09-2019, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Monoprice is selling a 48Gbps cable as well here:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2
I bought this out of curiosity the 3 footer which I think is the only length available right now and it works fine. I don’t have an 8K tv but if I get one I’m prepared lol
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post #23625 of 24979 Old 07-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I bought this out of curiosity the 3 footer which I think is the only length available right now and it works fine. I don’t have an 8K tv but if I get one I’m prepared lol
Up to 48Gbps is the key. "Up to" can be anywhere from 19Gbps to 48Gbps. There is no way to confirm the claims. 3' is certainly within the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification for the 9' maximum passive cable length. No mention of wire gauge but my guess is that it's a fairly stiff cable, which will help in signal transmission. If it works, it works, and that's all that matters. 8K or fully compliant HDMI 2.1, maybe.

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post #23626 of 24979 Old 07-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I bought this out of curiosity the 3 footer which I think is the only length available right now and it works fine. I don’️t have an 8K tv but if I get one I’️m prepared lol
Up to 48Gbps is the key. "Up to" can be anywhere from 19Gbps to 48Gbps. There is no way to confirm the claims. 3' is certainly within the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification for the 9' maximum passive cable length. No mention of wire gauge but my guess is that it's a fairly stiff cable, which will help in signal transmission. If it works, it works, and that's all that matters. 8K or fully compliant HDMI 2.1, maybe.
It’s not a super thick gauge nor is it ultra slim. I tried it once to test something on my set up. Direct connection from My Sony X700 UHD Blu-ray to my A9F and it played video flawlessly and in DV. I can’t speak to audio because I ran the another certified cable from the audio out to my AVR. I don’t know how I could tell you it if works for 8K or 2.1?
It’s labeled Ultra high speed on the cable itself, I’ve see no other certified cable labels as such!

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post #23627 of 24979 Old 07-09-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
It’s not a super thick gauge nor is it ultra slim. I tried it once to test something on my set up. Direct connection from My Sony X700 UHD Blu-ray to my A9F and it played video flawlessly and in DV. I can’t speak to audio because I ran the another certified cable from the audio out to my AVR. I don’t know how I could tell you it if works for 8K or 2.1?
It’s labeled Ultra high speed on the cable itself, I’ve see no other certified cable labels as such!
Ultra High Speed HDMI will be the new cable designation for cables that have been certified for the HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) hardware specifications. It will be used to distinguish the newer cables from Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps). There are no standardized certification programs yet, that are approved by HDMI.org, for cables that meet the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. HDMI.org has very specific "rules" for labeling and marketing cables using the "Ultra" description but again, the cable mfrs are playing a bit loose with the rules because HDMI.org has not yet begun to enforce that like they did for the Premium designation. At 3', you shouldn't have any issues with a well made High Speed HDMI cable. Unless all of your HDMI connected devices have HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are certified for 48Gbps, you'll still be limited to 18Gbps.

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post #23628 of 24979 Old 07-09-2019, 07:25 PM
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Sound Check, on or off?

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Sound Check, on or off?


Off
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post #23630 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 07:11 AM
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And Yamaha are not suggesting people try only using certain HDMI inputs for 4K/60 devices, despite their spec saying otherwise.



Denon should find an AVR that is NOT "sensitive", if a customer can demonstrate all works fine without the AVR in the chain.
Denon/Marantz are the only manufacturers that number the ports the way they do with Input 1 being farthest from Output 1.

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post #23631 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Up to 48Gbps is the key.
The monoprice description doesn't say that, it says "Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth" which means exactly what everyone thinks it means -- up to but not more than [email protected]

It's worth remembering that cable testing involves bandwidth, EMI and mechanical stress. Other than bandwidth and eARC the HDMI 2.1 features (VRR, D-HDR, ALLM etc.) are chipset features that are independent of the cable.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23632 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The monoprice description doesn't say that, it says "Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth" which means exactly what everyone thinks it means -- up to but not more than [email protected]

It's worth remembering that cable testing involves bandwidth, EMI and mechanical stress. Other than bandwidth and eARC the HDMI 2.1 features (VRR, D-HDR, ALLM etc.) are chipset features that are independent of the cable.
I would respectfully disagree. "Up to" refers to both, resolutions and bandwidth. Again, a very carefully worded product description. Don't get me wrong, this is not a knock against Apple, we are deep into the Apple ecosystem here, just the questionable marketing of these particular cables. The cable has to be capable of carrying all of the signal/data reliably from the source end (chipset A) to the sink end (chipset B) so the design and physical characteristics of the cable is definitely important for the HDMI hardware option sets.

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post #23633 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 10:22 AM
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Apologies for cross posting, but I have an issue covering multiple platforms. I’m planning on changing from Verizon FiOS to Optimum by Altice for TV, Internet, and Phone, and I wanted to address some concerns before pulling the trigger.

TiVo
1. I have several TiVo Bolts and a Premiere box that require cable cards. I remember the original Cablevision Cable Cards were single stream and did not always mate well with TiVo. Has Altice/Optimum improved those cards?
2. On a related topic, has anyone had experience changing cards from Verizon to Altice/Optimum? Do you have any tips to make the provisioning go easier?
3. When I change service providers on the TiVo’s, will the season passes (SPs) update to record on the correct channel, or will I need to manually update each one? I know when I’ve moved SPs from my OTA to Cable Bolt, they have correctly selected ABC/CBS, etc.. but I haven’t changed actual video providers since TiVo stated allowing SP transfers.

Network
4. I had Optimum Online several years ago, and the speed dropped significantly at night. I’ve heard from some neighbors that this is no longer an issue now that Altice/Optimum added more nodes to our neighborhood. Is there a site that I could get true network performance for a specific area?
5. I currently use a Google Wi-Fi Mesh system for my routing and wireless coverage. Has anyone had issues using the Google system with Altice/Optimum?

Phone
6. I eventually plan on purchasing my own modem to reduce my monthly charges. In addition to the Google system, I also have 2 phone numbers for the house. What modem(s) work with Altice/Optimum, Google Wi-Fi and are capable of handling 2 separate phone lines?

Apple TV
7. Does Altice/Optimum have single sign-on with Apple TV?
8. Do any networks not allow Apple TV access with Altice/Optimum?
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post #23634 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 10:41 AM
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Denon/Marantz are the only manufacturers that number the ports the way they do with Input 1 being farthest from Output 1.
Why does that matter? Aren't all the ports supposed to perform identically, according to the specification?

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post #23635 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 10:42 AM
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Come on, can we cut out (pun intended) all the cable discussions and put them somewhere else? I want to get this discussion back where it should be, on 24.00p!
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post #23636 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
Why does that matter? Aren't all the ports supposed to perform identically, according to the specification?
That confused me as well. Shouldn't all the HDMI ports function the same, with the exception of the ARC-specified port? I've switched around the HDMI inputs on my Yamaha receivers and never experienced any differences (other than the ARC input).

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post #23637 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 12:37 PM
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Some ISPs like Verizon 5G for those who can get it, are still including an Apple TV 4K for signing up to their service.

But MacOSRumors buyers guide says Don't Buy Apple TV 4K because an update is expected soon.

There have been very little rumors about a new device, though with the new tvOS and new streaming (which we haven't heard anything about since the unveiling in the spring), you'd think there would be a new device in the fall?
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post #23638 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 01:08 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
That confused me as well. Shouldn't all the HDMI ports function the same, with the exception of the ARC-specified port? I've switched around the HDMI inputs on my Yamaha receivers and never experienced any differences (other than the ARC input).


....and I have no issue using any of my ports on my Denon.

While some people have reported changing to a specific port fixes hdmi issues but the problems could be just something else (like a poor connection/connector or other interference.) The norm is to not worry about the import port for Denons and you verify this on the Denon forums. Your experience on a Yamaha is no more or less valid than mine on a Denon, it is anecdotal, you can’t from your experience assume the rate of issues from cabling are different between the brands unless you have other data to share w otherwise.

FWIW, ARC support is on an hdmi output port not and hdmi input port.
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post #23639 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
....and I have no issue using any of my ports on my Denon.

While some people have reported changing to a specific port fixes hdmi issues but the problems could be just something else (like a poor connection/connector or other interference.) The norm is to not worry about the import port for Denons and you verify this on the Denon forums. Your experience on a Yamaha is no more or less valid than mine on a Denon, it is anecdotal, you can’t from your experience assume the rate of issues from cabling are different between the brands unless you have other data to share w otherwise.

FWIW, ARC support is on an hdmi output port not and hdmi input port.
Huh? All I said was that I hadn't experienced that on my Yamaha and yes, I know that there are Denon users who don't have those issues. Somebody posted awhile back that Denon Support suggested using the HDMI input closest to the source which I thought was odd. Are you saying that ARC can be accomplished on HDMI ports that are not labeled specifically for ARC?

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post #23640 of 24979 Old 07-10-2019, 01:30 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

I’m saying that ARC on an AVR is on a labeled OUTPUT hdmi port, it is not in INPUT port.

A few folks have made claims about Yamaha implying that they are superior because of the reported hdmi cabling issues discussed, sorry if I included you in that group.

For the record, Denon claims ALL their ports on their modern AVRs, with perhaps the exception of the front hdmi port(?), should work by the fact that they document the signals they support.

Edit: This hdmi cabling and related AVR discussion should move to the appropriate AVR/hdmi cable threads and not be discussed here. I’ll refrain from further comments on the topic.

Last edited by rsonnens; 07-10-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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