Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 792 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23731 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
For 4K24, 4:2:0 is not a valid output format for HDMI 2.0. The ATV must output either 4:4:4 or 4:2:2. It cannot output 4:2:0 even though that is how the content was encoded.

For 4K60, 4:2:0 is a valid output format.
I was just about to post a chart I prepared along the same lines (see thumbnail 1).

Going through the SDR settings, only when choosing 4K SDR @ 60Hz does my TV allow me the choice between 4:2:0 or 4:4:4 (see thumbnail 2) otherwise 24Hz and 30Hz only provides the option of 4:4:4 so what @bodosom said about his chroma changing from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 when the frame rate changes from 60 to 24 in SDR mode makes perfect sense (assuming match frame rate is on).

Cheers! 🍹
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post #23732 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post
I was just about to post a chart I prepared along the same lines (see thumbnail 1).
There's one in the first post of this thread. Unfortunately the company that produced it is no more so they won't do another version for HDMI 2.1.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23733 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
I'm not sure what you're proving here as you are showing 4:4:4, which I assume is during media playback but your ATV UI should have the same.

What I said was that the home screen and overall UI should always have a 4:4:4 signal. (which it will unless something else is at play)
I'm not sure what you're proving. The OP specifically said switching to 4:2:0 fixed the CBS All Access video issue. In a typical 4K configuration setting the UI to 4:2:0 doesn't change SD output to 4:2:0.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23734 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I'm not sure what you're proving. The OP specifically said switching to 4:2:0 fixed the CBS All Access video issue. In a typical 4K configuration setting the UI to 4:2:0 doesn't change SD output to 4:2:0.
I'm not sure how you aren't following. Some apps force 4:4:4 which strains an incapable HDMI cable more than when an app outputs 4:2:0 because it requires more bandwidth of the cable. Some apps respect the system level setting, some do not.
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post #23735 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosom View Post
You didn't read the first post carefully enough. Notably there is no pass-through AC-3/E-AC-3, it's decoded to PCM in the ATV4K. Depending on your AVR you will see variations on MPCM as the input and possibly Atmos (ATMOS).
@bosom;- I read it very carefully . I am aware that Apple TV does send PCM, the point you may have missed from my message... it also can re-encode to DD+. This is the option I was using to force my AVR to upmix to Atmos and the only way i knew how to upmix to atmos. Hence my question.... I dont want to switch settings. I want it all to just work... @galonzo ;answered my question though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
@terminaldawn , you simply cycle the "movie" button on your AVR remote until you have "MultiIN + Dolby Surround", which is the non-Atmos up-mixer (this setting will stick for this input), then you'll get Atmos when appropriate and Multi-channel PCM will be up-mixed
@galonzo - Awesome, this is what I was looking for, EXACTLY. ONE MILLION THANKS!!!! As a side note this setting sticks, so I can be super lazy and not worry about having to switch it around.

I just really wonder why apple and other devices go through all the trouble of not doing pass-through? I could care less about their device sounds.... Its a pet peeve of mine.. just give me the choice for my AVR to do everything... sigh ...


@The Group ... Are these the "best" Video settings for my display [LG OLED65C7P]: ??

Enable Dolby Vision
4k SDR
YCbCr
4:4:4
Match Content Range and Frame Rate




Thanks again!!!
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post #23736 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
I'm not sure how you aren't following.
I don't know what constraints apply when you say respect. The idea that Format (or a particular video setting in general) overrides content constraints is confusing me.

In any case although I don't have CBS/AA I did check Vudu and AMC. Both switch to (force) 4:4:4 in my video chain.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23737 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post
bosom- I read it very carefully . I am aware that Apple TV does send PCM, the point you may have missed from my message... it also can re-encode to DD+.
Again I would suggest you read the first post in this thread more carefully. In any case I'm glad you have a solution that suits you.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23738 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I don't know what constraints apply when you say respect. The idea that Format (or a particular video setting in general) overrides content constraints is confusing me.

In any case although I don't have CBS/AA I did check Vudu and AMC. Both switch to (force) 4:4:4 in my video chain.
Well, I know you're really particular as far as you quoting people and have a tendency to strip the context but what I mean is that not all apps will enforce a certain color space.

For example, I set the ATV at 4:2:0 and open DirecTV Now and it stays at that signal. I then set the Apple TV at 4:4:4 and open the app and it remains in that color space.
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post #23739 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Well, I know you're really particular as far as you quoting people and have a tendency to strip the context but what I mean is that not all apps will enforce a certain color space.

For example, I set the ATV at 4:2:0 and open DirecTV Now and it stays at that signal. I then set the Apple TV at 4:4:4 and open the app and it remains in that color space.

Okay, assuming you mean "show a motion picture" when you say "open" then currently output chroma is unpredictable.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23740 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 11:15 PM
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If match framerate is off though, won’t the menu chroma setting be maintained? I thought it only switched when it was handshaking?


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post #23741 of 25607 Old 07-19-2019, 11:31 PM
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Ok I have a very strange issue that I haven’t seen reported with Netflix on the ATV4K. The show Dark is no longer in Atmos even though other titles are showing in Atmos. I took the pics attached tonight. The movie Point Blank is in Atmos on my ATV4k as per the pic attached. Dark is in Atmos on my Xbox One S as it should be. I have heard of Netflix not indicating or playing Atmos even when set and some members have struggled getting it to work but I have never heard of just individual titles not functioning correctly. Any ideas?Click image for larger version

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post #23742 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post
bosom- I read it very carefully <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />. I am aware that Apple TV does send PCM, the point you may have missed from my message... it also can re-encode to DD+.
Again I would suggest you read the first post in this thread more carefully. In any case I'm glad you have a solution that suits you.
What do you think I missed in the first post exactly? Pretty sure I fully comprehend how the audio is processed on the Apple TV.

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post #23743 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
Ok I have a very strange issue that I haven’t seen reported with Netflix on the ATV4K. The show Dark is no longer in Atmos even though other titles are showing in Atmos. I took the pics attached tonight. The movie Point Blank is in Atmos on my ATV4k as per the pic attached. Dark is in Atmos on my Xbox One S as it should be. I have heard of Netflix not indicating or playing Atmos even when set and some members have struggled getting it to work but I have never heard of just individual titles not functioning correctly. Any ideas?Attachment 2592696Attachment 2592698Attachment 2592700


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AFAIK season 2 of Dark is not in Atmos, but season 1 is. Why, no one seems to know.
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post #23744 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 09:42 AM
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What is the current state of lip sync delay issues with the Apple TV 4k? I just installed mine and am getting 85-125 ms delay on Netflix. I haven't gone through and checked other apps yet. I can set the delay on my receiver, but am a bit annoyed that I haven't had this issue with my Amazon firetv or smart tv. Does anyone have any tips on how best to set the delay since i've read it likely will vary based on content, apps, and resolution?
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post #23745 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 09:50 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Hart View Post
What is the current state of lip sync delay issues with the Apple TV 4k? I just installed mine and am getting 85-125 ms delay on Netflix. I haven't gone through and checked other apps yet. I can set the delay on my receiver, but am a bit annoyed that I haven't had this issue with my Amazon firetv or smart tv. Does anyone have any tips on how best to set the delay since i've read it likely will vary based on content, apps, and resolution?


The delay is usually elsewhere in your chain, AVR/tv, and not the ATV and can vary by video/audio type. Some exceptions usually are Amazon which is all over the place and is just often delivered out of sync.

That said I have a delay set in your range set on my AVR and generally things are then spot on. (I have a denon and lg tv.)
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post #23746 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Wolfer View Post
AFAIK season 2 of Dark is not in Atmos, but season 1 is. Why, no one seems to know.
Interesting as I had not heard that. Why does Dark on the Xbox show the Atmos tag (along with the Dolby Vision tag) whereas it only shows 5.1 on the ATV? Very strange. I will try to stream an episode from season one again and see if I get Atmos even though I am not getting it on season two. Unfortunately, I cannot verify if the Xbox is actually sending Atmos for season two as it stupidly wraps all audio in an Atmos container regardless if the source is Atmos or not. Maybe I will stick my ears up against my height speakers and see if I am getting anything when watching season two on the Xbox. It certainly seemed to sound a little better last night when I was comparing it to the ATV but it might be confirmation bias from seeing the Dolby Atmos logo light up on my AVR.
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post #23747 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
@terminaldawn , you simply cycle the "movie" button on your AVR remote until you have "MultiIN + Dolby Surround", which is the non-Atmos up-mixer (this setting will stick for this input), then you'll get Atmos when appropriate and Multi-channel PCM will be up-mixed

Thanks for posting this! Just got a Denon to replace my Sony AVR and saw this right before setting it up. Really appreciate it and thank you!



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post #23748 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Okay, assuming you mean "show a motion picture" when you say "open" then currently output chroma is unpredictable.
However I just checked:
  • ABC
  • AMC
  • CBS
  • Hulu
  • iTunes
  • Movies Anywhere
  • NBC
  • Netflix
  • Prime Video
  • Spectrum
They all behave the same way. The app interface maintains the UI default but 8b SDR content is sent as 4:4:4. I note this to clarify my questioning note about opening an app versus playing content in that app. And, of course, the first post says that the ATV4K disregards the UI default when sending 4K/8b/SDR if possible. Or something like that.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23749 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
However I just checked:
  • ABC
  • AMC
  • CBS
  • Hulu
  • iTunes
  • Movies Anywhere
  • NBC
  • Netflix
  • Prime Video
  • Spectrum
They all behave the same way. The app interface maintains the UI default but 8b SDR content is sent as 4:4:4. I note this to clarify my questioning note about opening an app versus playing content in that app. And, of course, the first post says that the ATV4K disregards the UI default when sending 4K/8b/SDR if possible. Or something like that.
4:2:0

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post #23750 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 05:55 PM
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Ok all this range and chroma talk has me wondering what I should be running. I'm still connected to a VT60 plasma hoping to go 4k early next year. I've been running 1080p SDR obviously but also have frame rate set to match. I assumed I should not match dynamic range since the TV can't do HDR. Also output is set to YCbCr but I wasn't sure what RGB high vs low would do? Just want to make sure I have the best config for my current TV.


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post #23751 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
4:2:0
Is this DirecTV Now or another app?

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23752 of 25607 Old 07-20-2019, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok all this range and chroma talk has me wondering what I should be running.
You use a chroma upsampling error (CUE) test to compare YCC to RGB high (for "motion pictures"). If you can tell the difference use the better setting. There are some other checks and in-depth discussion via Spears & Munsil.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23753 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post
@bosom;- I read it very carefully . I am aware that Apple TV does send PCM, the point you may have missed from my message... it also can re-encode to DD+. This is the option I was using to force my AVR to upmix to Atmos and the only way i knew how to upmix to atmos. Hence my question.... I dont want to switch settings. I want it all to just work... @galonzo ;answered my question though.

@galonzo - Awesome, this is what I was looking for, EXACTLY. ONE MILLION THANKS!!!! As a side note this setting sticks, so I can be super lazy and not worry about having to switch it around.

I just really wonder why apple and other devices go through all the trouble of not doing pass-through? I could care less about their device sounds.... Its a pet peeve of mine.. just give me the choice for my AVR to do everything... sigh ...


@The Group ... Are these the "best" Video settings for my display [LG OLED65C7P]: ??

Enable Dolby Vision
4k SDR
YCbCr
4:4:4
Match Content Range and Frame Rate


Thanks again!!!
I was wondering about the ATV4K settings as well because on some SDR 4k content (such as the Bond movies) I'm seeing video in white or very light areas as snowy areas where it looks like a bunch of small pixels. I don't notice this when watching HDR-10 or Dolby Vision, only with SDR. Could changing from 4:4:4 to 4:4:2 help? I also have an LG OLED TV.

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post #23754 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 04:17 PM
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I have three 4kATV boxes only 1 of them somehow allows me to do Dolby Atmos tho they all are the same .Can't figure it out.
Did you ever get an answer?

I can not get my Apple TV 4K to send Atmos to my Marantz AV7702. The option doesn't even show up on the Apple TV (yes all software is current). The Oppo UHD player works great and I get Atmos. BUT not from the Apple TV and Apple streamed moves that support Atmos?
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post #23755 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GPowers View Post
I can not get my Apple TV 4K to send Atmos to my Marantz AV7702.
Please review the first post in this thread.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23756 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
4:2:0

Isn't an average of 5.33 mbps low for a 4k video even if it's a cartoon even by iTunes standards?
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post #23757 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 08:48 PM
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Hi guys, I'm new to movies streaming. Subscribed to Netflix and streaming through my Sony x700 bluray player. So far so good as it has 4k, but no atmos support. And Netflix audio is not impressive.

Can I know if anyone has compare android box with apple TV 4k?
Apple 4k tv has atmos playback for Netflix.

How is the audio and picture quality when compared to android box for Netflix streaming?
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post #23758 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Isn't an average of 5.33 mbps low for a 4k video even if it's a cartoon even by iTunes standards?
It might be but this isn't a 4K source. It's 720p from the provider. Who knows what the original resolution might be.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #23759 of 25607 Old 07-21-2019, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave3000 View Post
Isn't an average of 5.33 mbps low for a 4k video even if it's a cartoon even by iTunes standards?


Old animation and from Disney. Sounds about right. Show us what Spider-Man into the Spiderverse reports back.
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post #23760 of 25607 Old 07-22-2019, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by deadrick View Post
Hi guys, I'm new to movies streaming. Subscribed to Netflix and streaming through my Sony x700 bluray player. So far so good as it has 4k, but no atmos support. And Netflix audio is not impressive.

Can I know if anyone has compare android box with apple TV 4k?
Apple 4k tv has atmos playback for Netflix.

How is the audio and picture quality when compared to android box for Netflix streaming?
An external streaming device is the way to go. Can't comment on the android part. TV apps and bluray player apps are not as good. From my experience, the internal apps are not updated as often as the ATV is. Netflix audio and pq are great via ATV 4K.
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