Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 815 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24421 of 24919 Old 08-22-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
That forces HDR on everything, regardless. The recommended settings are 4K SDR with match settings set to Yes (so SDR plays as SDR and HDR (regardless of flavor) plays as HDR.
Yes, I think that's the answer to why my TV indicates HDR even on SDR programming. It works well this way on well photographed shows such as Secret City but I can see where native SDR would probably be better with some 1080P SDR content. Anyway, thanks for helping me solve the mystery.
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post #24422 of 24919 Old 08-22-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I have my ATV Format set for 4K HDR 60Hz. Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate are both set to Off. It seems to be working well so far.
Like you, I use the "default" settings as opposed to the "recommended" settings some forum members like to parrot. Also works fine for me.
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post #24423 of 24919 Old 08-22-2019, 03:40 PM
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Glow

I'm having a very peculiar issue with GLOW on the ATV. Season 3 specifically won't play in 5.1. I went back to an episode in season 2 and it played in 5.1. Additionally, other shows and movies offered in 5.1 also play correctly. Just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing this issue, or if anyone could check it on their ATV4K? I have no idea what could be causing this other than a glitch on Netflix's part.
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post #24424 of 24919 Old 08-22-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cydeweyz View Post
Like you, I use the "default" settings as opposed to the "recommended" settings some forum members like to parrot. Also works fine for me.
That is why they are recommendations. You can opt for anything you want. Most of the 'parrots' are from posters answering another poster who wants to know what settings will get the best video. If a program is HDR then it should be HDR. If a program is SDR than the correct setting would be to watch that program in SDR. Perhaps you are happy to watch an SDR program that is artificially made to be HDR, that is your choice. Perhaps you prefer to watch the colorized version of Casablanca. I prefer it in black and white because that is how it was made originally and that was intentional, they had color film in those days.

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post #24425 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 05:03 AM
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My A9G doesn't flash (yet), but it also pro calibrated.

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post #24426 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 06:26 AM
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ITunes Movies show primary Language as ENGLISH US. I am in UK, should I change to US ENGLISH instead of UK for better sound?
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post #24427 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Yes, I think that's the answer to why my TV indicates HDR even on SDR programming. It works well this way on well photographed shows such as Secret City but I can see where native SDR would probably be better with some 1080P SDR content. Anyway, thanks for helping me solve the mystery.
There are multiple sound technical reasons for using Match Range and Rate which were discussed at length when the ATV4K shipped. Apple's decision to coerce all content to Dolby Vision was clearly flawed and Match Range was probably the best "correction" Apple has released. However some people like extra video processing -- presumably this is why the display companies provide it. E.g. I don't need the ATV4K to convert SDR to HDR. My display will cheerfully do that and probably do a better job because, unlike upstream devices, the display is aware of its technical capabilities.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24428 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 07:01 AM
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Apple's PCM scheme sucks

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post #24429 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 07:22 AM
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Apple's PCM scheme sucks
Why?
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post #24430 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 07:26 AM
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Amazon Prime is even worse than I have read here. I scanned through episode 1 of The Boys two days ago using the Prime Video app and it displayed in 4k/HDR. Last night I went to watch the full episode and it was in HD! I switched to the Apple TV, TV app and it played as expected. I know Amazon says they are "working on the issue" but I don't think so.

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post #24431 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I know Amazon says they are "working on the issue"
And I'm sure they are working on it. The question is what's their goal and is it related to ours.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24432 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
And I'm sure they are working on it. The question is what's their goal and is it related to ours.
And this isn't really a new issue. I have been seeing inconsistent behavior where one show in a series will play in HDR and then the next won't. Its just in recent days, its gotten noticeably worse. And the problem isn't related to just HDR. There are also shows and movies that should play with Dolby surround that do not on Apple TV. One show in a series plays with Dolby and then the next does not.
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post #24433 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
Why?
It sounds flat just horrible compare to disc on video Q I give Apple iTune a pass but sound & audio Q they need more improvement
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post #24434 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Soccerdude View Post
It sounds flat just horrible compare to disc on video Q I give Apple iTune a pass but sound & audio Q they need more improvement
How is the quality compared to other media streamers or TV Apps directly? I expect disc to be much much better.
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post #24435 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
There are multiple sound technical reasons for using Match Range and Rate which were discussed at length when the ATV4K shipped. Apple's decision to coerce all content to Dolby Vision was clearly flawed and Match Range was probably the best "correction" Apple has released. However some people like extra video processing -- presumably this is why the display companies provide it. E.g. I don't need the ATV4K to convert SDR to HDR. My display will cheerfully do that and probably do a better job because, unlike upstream devices, the display is aware of its technical capabilities.
I agree that good 4K TVs do a fine job of upconverting 1080P to 2160P and my Sony 940D is no exception. I can't tell much difference between native 4K SDR and upconverted 2K SDR. The critical thing for me, though, is HDR. To my eyes at least, HDR adds a LOT when it is combined with upconverted 4K SDR. Obviously, how good this combination is going to work depends on the quality of the underlying 1080P original. Anyway, so far so good, so thanks again for explaining what has been going on to me. I can hardly wait to add my TV's HDR to Prime's beautiful native 4K SDR The Expanse images. Will report how that works out for me.

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post #24436 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I agree that good 4K TVs do a fine job of upconverting 1080P to 2160P and my Sony 940D is no exception. I can't tell much difference between native 4K SDR and upconverted 2K SDR. The critical thing for me, though, is HDR
You misread my post.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24437 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:28 AM
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You misread my post.
I don’t think I misunderstood you. The purpose of my post was only to point out that adding HDR to unconverted SDR works well for me. I understand that you prefer to use the native video settings on your ATV. I prefer to use them, though. It’s that simple.

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post #24438 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I don’t think I misunderstood you.
Yes, you misread my post.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24439 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:36 AM
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Yes, you misread my post.
Have it your own way. Let’s move on, shall we?

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post #24440 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cydeweyz View Post
Like you, I use the "default" settings as opposed to the "recommended" settings some forum members like to parrot. Also works fine for me.
Thank God! I was starting to think I was the only one and might be drummed out of the ATV 4K owners club for my apostasy.

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Originally Posted by ran1283 View Post
I'm having a very peculiar issue with GLOW on the ATV. Season 3 specifically won't play in 5.1. I went back to an episode in season 2 and it played in 5.1. Additionally, other shows and movies offered in 5.1 also play correctly. Just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing this issue, or if anyone could check it on their ATV4K? I have no idea what could be causing this other than a glitch on Netflix's part.
I’ve been getting Apple’s flavor of Atmos on Glow. I haven’t been impressed, though. The immersive effects are weak with little or no activity from my overhead speakers. Otherwise, I still love the show.
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post #24441 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Thank God! I was starting to think I was the only one and might be drummed out of the ATV 4K owners club for my apostasy.
So what does it do when you set it to HDR mode for SDR content? I am curious I don't own an Apple TV. Thinking about it because I need something else to play with lol.

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post #24442 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 11:12 AM
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How is the quality compared to other media streamers or TV Apps directly? I expect disc to be much much better.
I enjoy the convenience of itune because the movies I bought they're in one place & that's where it ends . All streaming outlets don't spend much on R&D when it comes audio Q is not a priority number one for them.

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post #24443 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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So what does it do when you set it to HDR mode for SDR content?
It adds an HDR flag. In a perfect world nothing would happen but HDR capable displays will apply various idiosyncratic image manipulations. You can typically get a similar effect by putting your display in forced (dynamic) HDR mode.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24444 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 11:22 AM
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It adds an HDR flag. In a perfect world nothing would happen but HDR capable displays will apply various idiosyncratic image manipulations. You can typically get a similar effect by putting your display in forced (dynamic) HDR mode.
Ah yes that makes sense. I am currently trying to figure out why my own display looks odd with some HDR content when it goes to HDR mode. Tone mapping has proven better in my usage so who knows what this would cause on my TV.

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post #24445 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Have it your own way. Let’s move on, shall we?
So you completely misunderstand what someone says, when a correction is offered you insist you're right and finally you imply the other person doesn't know how to say what they mean and you wish to "move on" rather than admit your mistake.

By the way, no one here cares how you configure your ATV4K.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24446 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
So what does it do when you set it to HDR mode for SDR content? I am curious I don't own an Apple TV. Thinking about it because I need something else to play with lol.
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
It adds an HDR flag. In a perfect world nothing would happen but HDR capable displays will apply various idiosyncratic image manipulations. You can typically get a similar effect by putting your display in forced (dynamic) HDR mode.
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Ah yes that makes sense. I am currently trying to figure out why my own display looks odd with some HDR content when it goes to HDR mode. Tone mapping has proven better in my usage so who knows what this would cause on my TV.
The conventional wisdom seems to be that forcing HDR to upconvert an SDR picture to HDR leads to undesirable results. Until the last week I had taken it on faith that forcing HDR wouldn't work very well. Imagine my surprise when I found that my new ATV 4K has made several 1080P SDR programs on Netflix and Prime look great when it upconverted them to 4K 60Hz HDR. I don't know whether everybody else would be as pleased as I have been with this operation but I like it and an earlier poster said he did too. I don't know whether the good results I have been seeing are caused by how well the ATV handles the upconversion or whether it would work as well if I forced my TV to do the job.

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post #24447 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
The conventional wisdom seems to be that forcing HDR to upconvert an SDR picture to HDR leads to undesirable results. Until the last week I had taken it on faith that forcing HDR wouldn't work very well. Imagine my surprise when I found that my new ATV 4K has made several 1080P SDR programs on Netflix and Prime look great when it upconverted them to 4K 60Hz HDR. I don't know whether everybody else would be as pleased as I have been with this operation but I like I and an earlier poster said he did too. I don't know whether the good results I have been seeing are caused by how well the ATV handles the upconversion or whether it would work as well if I forced my TV to do the job.


Yeah, was just a misunderstanding. 4K HDR works, but the reason “why” it’s not recommended is because it can cause anomalies and is not showing what the source is (this would also remove DV if your TV is capable). Personally I prefer seeing what the source is “in”, but that’s personal preference. Some people like the look of forced HDR, that’s fine too
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post #24448 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 02:06 PM
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Yeah, was just a misunderstanding. 4K HDR works, but the reason “why” it’s not recommended is because it can cause anomalies and is not showing what the source is (this would also remove DV if your TV is capable). Personally I prefer seeing what the source is “in”, but that’s personal preference. Some people like the look of forced HDR, that’s fine too
Perhaps the reason I have been so pleased by the way my ATV does upconversion and HDR is that my TV is not DV capable. On mine, HDR10 is all there is. All of this goes to show that there is no decision more personal than deciding whether the quality of an image is "good" or otherwise. In my case, the 4K 60Hz HDR upconversion my ATV has been doing on native 1080P SDR content has been mostly "good."

By the way, I really appreciate this thread and have been learning a bunch here about the ATV 4K and its quirks. Thanks to you, bodosom, and others for your input.

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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I’ve been getting Apple’s flavor of Atmos on Glow. I haven’t been impressed, though. The immersive effects are weak with little or no activity from my overhead speakers. Otherwise, I still love the show.


I don’t understand what you mean by Apple’s flavor of Atmos. This makes no sense. Apple supports Atmos but in this example it is Netflix that is supplying the Atmos track. How is Apple’s ‘flavor’ different from anyone else’s?


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post #24450 of 24919 Old 08-23-2019, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Yeah, was just a misunderstanding. 4K HDR works, but the reason “why” it’s not recommended is because it can cause anomalies
Note that 4K has nothing to do with it which is why I didn't say anything about resolution.

When you force HDR-10 output with the ATV4K it does two things. Pack the 8b data into 10b and add fixed, common, 250/100 maxCLL/FALL meta-data. I'm reasonably confident Apple is sending the same data words i.e. not expanding the luminance/chrominance. Presumably this is what led them to pack all content into a 12b DoVi container. You should get the same result whenver you put SDR into any (larger) HDR container as SDR in an SDR container. But tone-mapping is happening in the display* and every brand/model is doing what they think best -- as modulated by user controls. Not only are you not seeing creative intent you're not seeing what "not-my-brand/model" owners are seeing.


*Unless you're one of those people.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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apple 4k tv , Apple Tv Mc572ll A , Apple Tv Md199ll A , grainy , hdr , issue , mgy52ll , mqd22ll , Samsung

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