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post #24451 of 24910 Old 08-23-2019, 04:46 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Note that 4K has nothing to do with it which is why I didn't say anything about resolution.

When you force HDR-10 output with the ATV4K it does two things. Pack the 8b data into 10b and add fixed, common, 250/100 maxCLL/FALL meta-data. I'm reasonably confident Apple is sending the same data words i.e. not expanding the luminance/chrominance. Presumably this is what led them to pack all content into a 12b DoVi container. You should get the same result whenver you put SDR into any (larger) HDR container as SDR in an SDR container. But tone-mapping is happening in the display* and every brand/model is doing what they think best -- as modulated by user controls. Not only are you not seeing creative intent you're not seeing what "not-my-brand/model" owners are seeing.


*Unless you're one of those people.


I was just using the resolution to keep the thread of convo “level” for gswat since his settings are 4K HDR, not as a generality. You gave a much more detailed description of “why not”, in the end it’s up to the end user, as long as they know the drawbacks and are OK with them that’s fine with me. It just adds a level or 4 of difficulty to troubleshooting
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post #24452 of 24910 Old 08-23-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Perhaps the reason I have been so pleased by the way my ATV does upconversion and HDR is that my TV is not DV capable. On mine, HDR10 is all there is. All of this goes to show that there is no decision more personal than deciding whether the quality of an image is "good" or otherwise. In my case, the 4K 60Hz HDR upconversion my ATV has been doing on native 1080P SDR content has been mostly "good."

By the way, I really appreciate this thread and have been learning a bunch here about the ATV 4K and its quirks. Thanks to you, bodosom, and others for your input.
As long as you understand by running the ATV in HDR mode all the time you are driving your TV at 100% brightness all the time.. Sorry but that’s not something I would be doing..
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post #24453 of 24910 Old 08-23-2019, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ran1283 View Post
I'm having a very peculiar issue with GLOW on the ATV. Season 3 specifically won't play in 5.1. I went back to an episode in season 2 and it played in 5.1. Additionally, other shows and movies offered in 5.1 also play correctly. Just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing this issue, or if anyone could check it on their ATV4K? I have no idea what could be causing this other than a glitch on Netflix's part.
Having the same issue and more. I found this thread trying to see if anyone else was experiencing this.

What I found is that ANY show on Netflix in Dolby Vision will not play in 5.1. I do get DV but with only stereo sound. Regular 4K or HD shows with 5.1 audio play fine.

I know it can be any number of items in my setup causing the issue or the Netflix app itself so it’s hard to figure out who’s at fault. iTunes DV movies with 5.1 work fine too so it does seem like an issue with Netflix

Setup is ATV4K to Sony A1E to Marantz NR1603 via ARC. ATV is set to 5.1 audio. If anyone has ideas on what to troubleshoot I’m all ears.
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post #24454 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Soccerdude View Post
Apple's PCM scheme sucks
Definitely true for my specific needs.

I bought my Yamaha because of a couple features that enhance/clarify speech. My 75 year old ears, even with hearing aids, frequently need all the help they can get to clearly hear spoken words in films. The Yahama has one feature that specifically increases, by 3 db, the normal frequency range of the human voice; and another feature, "Artificial Intelligence", that also enhances speech in many films. They make a significant difference. However, these features only work for "dolby" sources (not for PCM). They definitely work better on "dolby+" from my ROKU (or even over ARC from my Sony's organic apps) than on the reconfigured "dolby" from the my ATV4k.

I definitely use the ATV4K for iTune movies that I can't get from Netflix, Prime, etc.; but use the ROKU if I have a choice.
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post #24455 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
I was just using the resolution to keep the thread of convo “level” for gswat since his settings are 4K HDR, not as a generality. You gave a much more detailed description of “why not”, in the end it’s up to the end user, as long as they know the drawbacks and are OK with them that’s fine with me. It just adds a level or 4 of difficulty to troubleshooting
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
I don’t understand what you mean by Apple’s flavor of Atmos. This makes no sense. Apple supports Atmos but in this example it is Netflix that is supplying the Atmos track. How is Apple’s ‘flavor’ different from anyone else’s?
I should have said the flavor of Atmos Dolby provides to Netflix. As I understand it, that version of Atmos only works with the ATV 4K, Playstation, and Xbox. I know from personal experience that it does not work with either Roku or Android TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
I was just using the resolution to keep the thread of convo “level” for gswat since his settings are 4K HDR, not as a generality. You gave a much more detailed description of “why not”, in the end it’s up to the end user, as long as they know the drawbacks and are OK with them that’s fine with me. It just adds a level or 4 of difficulty to troubleshooting
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
As long as you understand by running the ATV in HDR mode all the time you are driving your TV at 100% brightness all the time.. Sorry but that’s not something I would be doing..
Gerry
I understand that forcing HDR adds some potential problems for me, including increased complexity. I am willing to risk such problems, though, because HDR adds so much to my viewing enjoyment. If running brightness at 100 percent most of the time will shorten the display's life, I'm willing to live with that possibility too. Maybe something will change and I will decide that forcing HDR is a bad idea but, so far at least, it has worked very well with most of what I have watched. I will report further if anything changes.

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post #24456 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Definitely true for my specific needs.

I bought my Yamaha because of a couple features that enhance/clarify speech. My 75 year old ears, even with hearing aids, frequently need all the help they can get to clearly hear spoken words in films. The Yahama has one feature that specifically increases, by 3 db, the normal frequency range of the human voice; and another feature, "Artificial Intelligence", that also enhances speech in many films. They make a significant difference. However, these features only work for "dolby" sources (not for PCM). They definitely work better on "dolby+" from my ROKU (or even over ARC from my Sony's organic apps) than on the reconfigured "dolby" from the my ATV4k.

I definitely use the ATV4K for iTune movies that I can't get from Netflix, Prime, etc.; but use the ROKU if I have a choice.
If I were in your situation (and I have had severe ear problems in the past but luckily am back to normal for now) I would try setting the AppleTV to force DD “bitstream” output. It is not the native bitstream in the content, and it is not the highest audio resolution the ATV is capable of. But it may turn out to be a small sacrifice in order to achieve the larger goal of letting your Yamaha work its magic.
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post #24457 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Definitely true for my specific needs.

I bought my Yamaha because of a couple features that enhance/clarify speech. My 75 year old ears, even with hearing aids, frequently need all the help they can get to clearly hear spoken words in films. The Yahama has one feature that specifically increases, by 3 db, the normal frequency range of the human voice; and another feature, "Artificial Intelligence", that also enhances speech in many films. They make a significant difference. However, these features only work for "dolby" sources (not for PCM). They definitely work better on "dolby+" from my ROKU (or even over ARC from my Sony's organic apps) than on the reconfigured "dolby" from the my ATV4k.

I definitely use the ATV4K for iTune movies that I can't get from Netflix, Prime, etc.; but use the ROKU if I have a choice.
You could try changing dynamic range on AppleTV4k by selecting ‘Reduce Loud Sound’ by scrolling down on siri remote pad, but this also makes audio lower quality I think. Have you tried it?
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post #24458 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead-dog View Post

Setup is ATV4K to Sony A1E to Marantz NR1603 via ARC. ATV is set to 5.1 audio. If anyone has ideas on what to troubleshoot I’m all ears.
Are you using ARC because the Marantz doesn't pass Dolby Vision? Do you mean you have Change Forman On/New Format Dolby Digital 5.1?
Can you give a specific example or two?

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24459 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Are you using ARC because the Marantz doesn't pass Dolby Vision? Do you mean you have Change Forman On/New Format Dolby Digital 5.1?
Can you give a specific example or two?

I’d add, are the problematic shows specifically in Atmos—what does it say in the Netflix info banner for the problematic shows because many DV shows on Netflix are Atmos and he said that non DV seems to work OK. I can believe this is explicitly DV related.

Also, seems like he should just be using best possible as the audio setting (but you are correct in that he is unclear about if he is changing a format or is it always set to one format.)

Whatever the issue, a Sony AE1 thread is where I’d suggest looking for an answer. It all depends on what formats are passed the TVs ARC given the the formats input to the TV.
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post #24460 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Definitely true for my specific needs.

I bought my Yamaha because of a couple features that enhance/clarify speech. My 75 year old ears, even with hearing aids, frequently need all the help they can get to clearly hear spoken words in films. The Yahama has one feature that specifically increases, by 3 db, the normal frequency range of the human voice; and another feature, "Artificial Intelligence", that also enhances speech in many films. They make a significant difference. However, these features only work for "dolby" sources (not for PCM). They definitely work better on "dolby+" from my ROKU (or even over ARC from my Sony's organic apps) than on the reconfigured "dolby" from the my ATV4k.

I definitely use the ATV4K for iTune movies that I can't get from Netflix, Prime, etc.; but use the ROKU if I have a choice.
Yeah thats the downside of PCM you often lose some of the capabilities of your AVR. The poster above may be on to something with forcing everything to dolby.

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post #24461 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 12:48 PM
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Hey. Not been posting for a bit. Just wondered if there’s been any update on the Apple TVs inability to play pure 24fps content?


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post #24462 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post
Hey. Not been posting for a bit. Just wondered if there’s been any update on the Apple TVs inability to play pure 24fps content?


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Nope, still non-functional.
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post #24463 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Yeah thats the downside of PCM you often lose some of the capabilities of your AVR. The poster above may be on to something with forcing everything to dolby.
I do force to "dolby"; but it's not as good as "dolby+" from the ROKU. Only downside to ROKU is that I lose my dolby vision that we have on the ATV4K.

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post #24464 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If I were in your situation (and I have had severe ear problems in the past but luckily am back to normal for now) I would try setting the AppleTV to force DD “bitstream” output. It is not the native bitstream in the content, and it is not the highest audio resolution the ATV is capable of. But it may turn out to be a small sacrifice in order to achieve the larger goal of letting your Yamaha work its magic.
It's what I do when using the ATV4K for an iTunes film. But like I said, it's not as good as "dolby+" on the Roku or the Sony's organic apps.

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post #24465 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 01:27 PM
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Question

As Apple RnD/Engineering has the ability to create a High Performance Pro Display Monitor, surely they can apply some of those resources and fix issues for a next gen AppleTV4k:
1. 24fps playback without stuttering.
2. Issues with flashing on OLEDS in dark lower quality content.
3. Upscaling that rival flagship TV’s or better them.
4. DD+ audio out instead of PCM as many prefer it.
5. HLG HDR.
6. HDR 10PLUS.
7. 4K HDR YOUTUBE.
8. Others?
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post #24466 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
As Apple RnD/Engineering has the ability to create a High Performance Pro Display Monitor, surely they can apply some of those resources and fix issues for a next gen AppleTV4k:

1. 24fps playback without stuttering.

2. Issues with flashing on OLEDS in dark lower quality content.

3. Upscaling that rival flagship TV’s or better them.

4. DD+ audio out instead of PCM as many prefer it.

5. HLG HDR.

6. HDR 10PLUS.

7. 4K HDR YOUTUBE.

8. Others?


3) Upscaling via the ATV4K isn’t horrible
4) the difficulty is mixing in the device sounds (it’s the same issue disc players, etc have had for awhile now).
7) don’t see this coming. They’d need to have the hardware for it and I believe maybe pay royalties.
2) haven’t seen any issues in my B7.
6) maybe, but the lack of content/demand why waste energy right now (Disney will offer HDR10 and DolbyVision on their upcoming Disney+ app).
5) see 6 in regards to content/demand
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post #24467 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
3) Upscaling via the ATV4K isn’t horrible
4) the difficulty is mixing in the device sounds (it’s the same issue disc players, etc have had for awhile now).
7) don’t see this coming. They’d need to have the hardware for it and I believe maybe pay royalties.
2) haven’t seen any issues in my B7.
6) maybe, but the lack of content/demand why waste energy right now (Disney will offer HDR10 and DolbyVision on their upcoming Disney+ app).
5) see 6 in regards to content/demand
Thank you.

In the UK BBC IPLAYER has frequently had HDR HLG content especially in Sports. Expecting more of it next year.
LG AND SONY Support it in BBC IPLAYER.
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post #24468 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
Thank you.



In the UK BBC IPLAYER has frequently had HDR HLG content especially in Sports. Expecting more of it next year.

LG AND SONY Support it in BBC IPLAYER.


Aware of BBC Player note I didn’t say there wasn’t any content, just not enough of it or demand to add (yet). HLG is poised to be used possibly with OTA so we may see it eventually, just not a high priority item (IMO). Since you’re from across the pond the priority of course is bigger.
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post #24469 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
7) don’t see this [UHD YouTube] coming. They’d need to have the hardware for it and I believe maybe pay royalties.
Not quite. VP9.2 is supported on Apple products in software. Just not the ATV4K. Apple is unlikely to enter into the required "royalty-free" license with Google to support it as a system codec.

Apple will probably provide support for AV1 in the next hardware refresh and may be willing to back-port it to the ATV4K. Then Google just needs to re-encode all of their UHD content and Bob's your uncle.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24470 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
How is the quality compared to other media streamers or TV Apps directly? I expect disc to be much much better.
Netflix & Prime they both suffer from audio issues , Prime advertise most of their Western movies as HD but if what they show as HD I am lost for words they are noting but 330p at best .

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post #24471 of 24910 Old 08-24-2019, 10:21 PM
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Anyone notice that Stranger Things now shows up as Ultra HD 4K on the ATV and not Dolby Vision? Not sure if this has happened for other Dolby Vision shows but I just checked and it still shows DV when I access Netflix via my LG app.
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post #24472 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Perhaps the reason I have been so pleased by the way my ATV does upconversion and HDR is that my TV is not DV capable...
The Sony 940? Mine has DV.
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post #24473 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 05:53 AM
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The Sony 940? Mine has DV.
He has a 940D per his signature.
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post #24474 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 06:16 AM
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He has a 940D per his signature.
Right. DV came with the E.
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post #24475 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ran1283 View Post
Anyone notice that Stranger Things now shows up as Ultra HD 4K on the ATV and not Dolby Vision? Not sure if this has happened for other Dolby Vision shows but I just checked and it still shows DV when I access Netflix via my LG app.
Season 1 is vanilla UHD while S2 and S3 are in UHD Dolby Vision. I have no idea why S1 is not in DV as well.
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post #24476 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ran1283 View Post
Anyone notice that Stranger Things now shows up as Ultra HD 4K on the ATV and not Dolby Vision? Not sure if this has happened for other Dolby Vision shows but I just checked and it still shows DV when I access Netflix via my LG app.
Are you checking the same episodes on both players? As noted S1 is UHD while S2 and S3 are UHD/DoVi.
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post #24477 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ran1283 View Post
Anyone notice that Stranger Things now shows up as Ultra HD 4K on the ATV and not Dolby Vision? Not sure if this has happened for other Dolby Vision shows but I just checked and it still shows DV when I access Netflix via my LG app.
I think the info blurb for the show on your LG display app may be misleading you. While S2 and S3 are in Dolby Vision, S1 is just plain SDR UHD, even though the show blurb says Dolby Vision. It shows the same way on my Sony A9F, Dolby Vision for the entire series yet it's only the second two seasons that actually have the Dolby Vision treatment.
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post #24478 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 04:25 PM
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Yeah thats the downside of PCM you often lose some of the capabilities of your AVR. The poster above may be on to something with forcing everything to dolby.
My ATV4K keeps growing on me, and I would consider making it my primary streamer and media device if it would pass through hi-Rez formats, Atmos, etc. the PQ is growing on me and with Infuse it is impressive. Still wish they would do You-Tube HDR.

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post #24479 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 04:28 PM
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My ATV4K keeps growing on me, and I would consider making it my primary streamer and media device if it would pass through hi-Rez formats, Atmos, etc. the PQ is growing on me and with Infuse it is impressive. Still wish they would do You-Tube HDR.
I am here just as a lurker, been thinking of getting one for what I hear is superior picture quality over the Shield that is my main streamer.

Would be nice to have all the audio codecs. There seems to be some limitation with every one of these boxes.
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post #24480 of 24910 Old 08-25-2019, 07:56 PM
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Anyone notice that Stranger Things now shows up as Ultra HD 4K on the ATV and not Dolby Vision? Not sure if this has happened for other Dolby Vision shows but I just checked and it still shows DV when I access Netflix via my LG app.
I think the info blurb for the show on your LG display app may be misleading you. While S2 and S3 are in Dolby Vision, S1 is just plain SDR UHD, even though the show blurb says Dolby Vision. It shows the same way on my Sony A9F, Dolby Vision for the entire series yet it's only the second two seasons that actually have the Dolby Vision treatment.
Yeah you nailed it. It was showing info for Season 1. I just played S3 and it was DV. Thanks everyone who chimed in!
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