Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post - Page 833 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24961 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Certainly not according to Apple. Fox will either send an SDR stream or do a conversion to HDR-10.
So is that a yes or a no?

The last two 4K college football games looked like crap streaming from the ATV.
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post #24962 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:19 AM
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After reading a couple of comments saying the AppleTV was better at upscaling than the Shield, I decided to do a comparison between the device I have.

So using a capture card with the same settings, here are the comparisons of a 1080p Bluray disc upscaled to 2160p.


AppleTV vs Shield vs Sony X700 vs madVR vs PowerDVD vs VLC ------> all at 444 8bits
https://slowpics.org/comparison/035a...1-19539e4f1c0e

AppleTV / Shield / Sony X700





madVR / PowerDVD / VLC



Studio upscale (UHD-BD tonemapped to SDR with madVR)











In conclusion:


- yes the appleTV got way better upscaling capabilities than the Shield and is surprisingly close to madvr(with a gtx1070)
- Colors are more accurate with the sony, madvr and PowerDVD. ( why? because I know madvr is the most accurate.)
- an HTPC + madVR is the best video player: upscaling, colors...


In HDR10, the appleTV ignore the metadata and output the same maxcll/fall for everything. They also output everything in BT2020, even if the movie is P3 .. WTF?







real metadata of the file played:



JVC X550R / LG OLED C8 65'' - DENON X2300W 5.1.2 - Klipsch Reference R-26F(2x), R-450C, R-10S, RP-250S(2x), R-41M(2x) - SONY X700 bluray - GTX1070 i7 7700k HTPC - Nvidia Shield 4K

Last edited by Salty01; 09-21-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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post #24963 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
So is that a yes or a no?
Sorry I was ambiguous. Per Apple no -- currently only HDR-10 and DoVi can be transported via HLS (streamed vs. "local" playback). So people with HLG (BBC, Fox) will have to convert HLG to HDR-10 or send SDR. Since Fox speaks as though this is a trial they may not be interested in anything beyond SDR for non-HLG platforms.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24964 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
So is that a yes or a no?

The last two 4K college football games looked like crap streaming from the ATV.
The Iowa game from last weekend certainly did. Very contrasty with overly saturated colors. Asking about HLG on the ATV4K is a good question. Since this upcoming NFL game is going to be faux-4K it makes me wonder what FOX is really doing with the signal, if they're getting the HDR portion of it right. The women's WC matches earlier this year looked very good, nothing like that mess with the Iowa game.
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post #24965 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Salty01 View Post
In HDR, the appleTV ignore the metadata and output the same maxcll/fall for everything. They also output everything in BT2020, even if the movie is P3
What did you use for playback on the ATV?
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24966 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
What did you use for playback on the ATV?

PLEX and MrMC, they both ignore the real metadata.
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post #24967 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty01 View Post
In HDR10, the appleTV ignore the metadata and output the same maxcll/fall for everything. They also output everything in BT2020, even if the movie is P3 .. WTF?
You should try some Netflix DV content like Iron Fist Season 1 (converted to HDR10 by the AppleTV) if you want to have a laugh at the static metadata AppleTV is outputting - it changes every 30s which has caused no end of issues.

Although some folk do set up their displays to have a P3 colourspace and then make something like a Lumagen or MadVR output as if P3 were a format, it isn't according to the HDMI specs, which I understand only really support REC709 and REC2020 colorimetry. So don't expect any mainstream device to output P3 without the 2020 wrapper.

Edit: for what it is worth, I believe the info about the mastering monitor is just FYI, it doesn't mean the content is encoded as P3. Consumer HDR content is nearly always P3 within 2020 wrapper (sometimes I understand actual native 2020).
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Last edited by bobof; 09-21-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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post #24968 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 01:08 PM
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@Salty01
You can try RGB on apple tv 4k? I think and I heard about this many time, ycbcr444 is broken and has bad color.
Ah and MPV test please
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Last edited by bl4ck; 09-21-2019 at 01:14 PM.
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post #24969 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
You should try some Netflix DV content like Iron Fist Season 1 (converted to HDR10 by the AppleTV) if you want to have a laugh at the static metadata AppleTV is outputting - it changes every 30s which has caused no end of issues.

Although some folk do set up their displays to have a P3 colourspace and then make something like a Lumagen or MadVR output as if P3 were a format, it isn't according to the HDMI specs, which I understand only really support REC709 and REC2020 colorimetry. So don't expect any mainstream device to output P3 without the 2020 wrapper.

Edit: for what it is worth, I believe the info about the mastering monitor is just FYI, it doesn't mean the content is encoded as P3. Consumer HDR content is nearly always P3 within 2020 wrapper (sometimes I understand actual native 2020).
Yes I noticed the changing metadata with all the DV content played in HDR10.

Nvidia Shield and my Sony player output P3 or Bt2020 properly.


The appleTV too when you watch something that is native HDR10 on Amazon, iTunes, Vudu or Movies Anywhere.

But anything that is played through plex or mrmc, or (anything Dolby Vision) is ''converted'' to bt2020.


native HDR10 on the AppleTV (Movies Anywhere):



JVC X550R / LG OLED C8 65'' - DENON X2300W 5.1.2 - Klipsch Reference R-26F(2x), R-450C, R-10S, RP-250S(2x), R-41M(2x) - SONY X700 bluray - GTX1070 i7 7700k HTPC - Nvidia Shield 4K

Last edited by Salty01; 09-21-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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post #24970 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty01 View Post
Yes I noticed the changing metadata with all the DV content played in HDR10.

Nvidia Shield and my Sony player output P3 or Bt2020 properly.


The appleTV too when you watch something that is native HDR10 on Amazon, iTunes, Vudu or Movies Anywhere.

But anything that is played through plex or mrmc, or (anything Dolby Vision) is ''converted'' to bt2020.


native HDR10 on the AppleTV (Movies Anywhere):


There's no conversion, it is just some metadata that as far as I'm aware doesn't get used.
The key information isn't on that OSD page but I believe you can see it on the vertex Input page on the OLED - where it will show you that for all HDR content it is output as 2020 for all of the devices and applications you list. None of those players will be outputting P3 over HDMI - they will all be P3 within 2020 (which is 2020).

The mastering primaries is just information about the mastering display. It's not a big deal for it to be wrong.
Edit: you can change the OSD to show the RX info instead. (see below screenshot). (set RX video info instead of default TX).
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Last edited by bobof; 09-21-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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post #24971 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 01:49 PM
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Guys, I need advice on my next steps here.

Just bought the Apple TV 32bit 5th gen, took it home, turned it on to watch Spider-man Far from Home and sound and video are glitchy.

Video glitch every few seconds, audio in and out every few seconds. I am about to return this thing, but I figured I'd give this forum a shot.

Setup:
AVR - Denon X2400h
TV - Hisense 65H9F

ATV -> Denon X2400h -> Hisense 65H9F -> ARC -> Denon X2400h

After the glitching started, I updated the tvOS to tvOS 12.4.1, rebooted AVR, TV, and ATV.

Still glitchy. I would appreciate some advice on getting this sorted out.
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post #24972 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Sorry I was ambiguous. Per Apple no -- currently only HDR-10 and DoVi can be transported via HLS (streamed vs. "local" playback). So people with HLG (BBC, Fox) will have to convert HLG to HDR-10 or send SDR. Since Fox speaks as though this is a trial they may not be interested in anything beyond SDR for non-HLG platforms.
And a simple software update could add it. Oh well. Thanks
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post #24973 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by xonant View Post
Guys, I need advice on my next steps here.



Just bought the Apple TV 32bit 5th gen, took it home, turned it on to watch Spider-man Far from Home and sound and video are glitchy.



Video glitch every few seconds, audio in and out every few seconds. I am about to return this thing, but I figured I'd give this forum a shot.



Setup:

AVR - Denon X2400h

TV - Hisense 65H9F



ATV -> Denon X2400h -> Hisense 65H9F -> ARC -> Denon X2400h



After the glitching started, I updated the tvOS to tvOS 12.4.1, rebooted AVR, TV, and ATV.



Still glitchy. I would appreciate some advice on getting this sorted out.


Sounds like hdmi incompatibility switch out your 9 out of 10 issues are cable related.


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post #24974 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty01 View Post
PLEX and MrMC, they both ignore the real metadata.

If you don't have a plex pass then infuse has a better playback engine.
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post #24975 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
Sounds like hdmi incompatibility switch out your 9 out of 10 issues are cable related.


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Thanks for replying! Switched out HDMI cable and rebooted everything, works no glitches.
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post #24976 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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If you don't have a plex pass then infuse has a better playback engine.


I have a Plex Pass and Infuse still has a better player.


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post #24977 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonant View Post
Guys, I need advice on my next steps here.

Just bought the Apple TV 32bit 5th gen, took it home, turned it on to watch Spider-man Far from Home and sound and video are glitchy.

Video glitch every few seconds, audio in and out every few seconds. I am about to return this thing, but I figured I'd give this forum a shot.

Setup:
AVR - Denon X2400h
TV - Hisense 65H9F

ATV -> Denon X2400h -> Hisense 65H9F -> ARC -> Denon X2400h

After the glitching started, I updated the tvOS to tvOS 12.4.1, rebooted AVR, TV, and ATV.

Still glitchy. I would appreciate some advice on getting this sorted out.
Just a curiosity, why are you using ARC back to the Denon? I go from my ATV to my Denon and then out to my Vizio Display. The Denon takes care of all the sound from the ATV. Now if you you are using the ARC to play back something directly from the Hisense I understand that. I also have ARC back for that reason. It's just that you added the ARC in your flow that confuses me because it really shouldn't have anything to do with the ATV at all.

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post #24978 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 05:42 PM
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Just a curiosity, why are you using ARC back to the Denon? I go from my ATV to my Denon and then out to my Vizio Display. The Denon takes care of all the sound from the ATV. Now if you you are using the ARC to play back something directly from the Hisense I understand that. I also have ARC back for that reason. It's just that you added the ARC in your flow that confuses me because it really shouldn't have anything to do with the ATV at all.
You are correct with your assessment. I included the ARC info in the event it would have been helpful to evaluate the problem I was having. In the end, it didn't matter.
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post #24979 of 25562 Old 09-21-2019, 09:22 PM
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I love my Apple TV 4K video quality. Playing Ready Player One race scene and comparing the 4k disc to the stream there is SO MUCH more bass on the disc for me. I’m increasing the volume on the Apple TV streaming comparison so that I get about the same volume out of each format. Bass on the Apollo 11 shuttle launch wasn’t really there either. :/
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post #24980 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 02:18 AM
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I love my Apple TV 4K video quality. Playing Ready Player One race scene and comparing the 4k disc to the stream there is SO MUCH more bass on the disc for me. I’m increasing the volume on the Apple TV streaming comparison so that I get about the same volume out of each format. Bass on the Apollo 11 shuttle launch wasn’t really there either. :/


Streaming just can't carry those low bass parts. They have to get the video and the more audible audio in there first. If there's room left then you get some of that lower end more tactile bass. Cloverfield paradox is a great example. I played the intro scenes on Netflix and thought it was good. Then I bought the disc. My subwoofer did things I didn't know it could do.


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post #24981 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 04:41 AM
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It seems to be a bit of an iTunes issue though? People have reported things sounding better via Vudu for example.


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post #24982 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 06:13 AM
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It seems to be a bit of an iTunes issue though? People have reported things sounding better via Vudu for example.
It is definitely possible they may have different audio hosted on different streaming services. Overall on this particular stream I didn’t notice a difference. I think the video is king on these. You have to think that a majority of people won’t have dedicated theater rooms and their sound experience will be marginal even with uncompressed. What I hope is that there is a bump in audio bitrate in the future. Which is bound to happen! I know they don’t want us to be able to download 4K movies but I’d love to be able to download the audio track separately and use the full bandwidth for the video stream.
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post #24983 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
You should try some Netflix DV content like Iron Fist Season 1 (converted to HDR10 by the AppleTV) if you want to have a laugh at the static metadata AppleTV is outputting - it changes every 30s which has caused no end of issues.
No end of issues for two reported configurations both of which have been fixed. By the way I don't recall any mention of visual changes just an annoying handshake.
Also the change rate varies from every 30s or so (Punisher) to not at all (Russian Doll). That would suggest it's related to the content and not intrisic to the DoVi to HDR-10 conversion.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24984 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
Streaming just can't carry those low bass parts.
Frequency range isn't related to streaming.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #24985 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonant View Post
Guys, I need advice on my next steps here.

Just bought the Apple TV 32bit 5th gen, took it home, turned it on to watch Spider-man Far from Home and sound and video are glitchy.

Video glitch every few seconds, audio in and out every few seconds. I am about to return this thing, but I figured I'd give this forum a shot.

Setup:
AVR - Denon X2400h
TV - Hisense 65H9F

ATV -> Denon X2400h -> Hisense 65H9F -> ARC -> Denon X2400h

After the glitching started, I updated the tvOS to tvOS 12.4.1, rebooted AVR, TV, and ATV.

Still glitchy. I would appreciate some advice on getting this sorted out.
Do you have certified high-speed HDMI cables?

Last edited by hodgjy; 09-22-2019 at 08:54 AM.
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post #24986 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonant View Post
Guys, I need advice on my next steps here.

Just bought the Apple TV 32bit 5th gen, took it home, turned it on to watch Spider-man Far from Home and sound and video are glitchy.

Video glitch every few seconds, audio in and out every few seconds. I am about to return this thing, but I figured I'd give this forum a shot.

Setup:
AVR - Denon X2400h
TV - Hisense 65H9F

ATV -> Denon X2400h -> Hisense 65H9F -> ARC -> Denon X2400h

After the glitching started, I updated the tvOS to tvOS 12.4.1, rebooted AVR, TV, and ATV.

Still glitchy. I would appreciate some advice on getting this sorted out.
Basic recommendations:

For HDMI cable runs under 25', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable is recommended.
For HDMI cable runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable is recommended.

If CEC is required for you to use ARC, then it may be a CEC issue (which is common). Disable ARC/CEC as a test and see if you have any audio issues. If you still do, then it's something else. If not, it could be an ARC/CEC issue. I have an ATV4 and an ATV4k for both of my HTS's using different receivers as a hub. I don't use ARC/CEC and have never had any audio issues streaming.
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post #24987 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 02:57 PM
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Do you have certified high-speed HDMI cables?
Yes I do. I installed a new cable and rebooted everything, it’s working now
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post #24988 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 02:58 PM
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Do you have certified high-speed HDMI cables?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Basic recommendations:

For HDMI cable runs under 25', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable is recommended.
For HDMI cable runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable is recommended.

If CEC is required for you to use ARC, then it may be a CEC issue (which is common). Disable ARC/CEC as a test and see if you have any audio issues. If you still do, then it's something else. If not, it could be an ARC/CEC issue. I have an ATV4 and an ATV4k for both of my HTS's using different receivers as a hub. I don't use ARC/CEC and have never had any audio issues streaming.
Replaced the hdmi cabled, rebooted everything and it’s working fine now.
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post #24989 of 25562 Old 09-22-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Frequency range isn't related to streaming.


Sorry what I meant was it seems like they cut the really low stuff off etc to leave bandwidth for the video and the audio range that more people would have the equipment to reproduce. Otherwise why wouldn't the audio on streaming be the same range as on a Blu Ray.


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post #24990 of 25562 Old 09-23-2019, 09:31 AM
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Pardon me if this has been asked before. I have a very serious question. Please do not let this degrade! I happen to be a believer in cables. I love the one on my Q900R and C9 among many others. My question is do you think the ATV 64GB can benefit from one since it takes a standard two prong? Please only serious answers. Also please not outright speculation but an educated guess if you really don't know or have not tried. someone must have? The only good two prongs are Audioquest and as far as cables go they are not very expensive at all. so it is really no big deal to me. Although if for whatever reason you folks think it will not help improve picture quality might as well not do it. I just don't know enough about the ATV. I just got it. I can tell you on a high end TV or stereo component the difference is often night and day. However I really do not know about this. I hope someone does or can at least make an educated guess! Once again, please I beg you do not start with the cables are nonsense or whatever. it is my own prerogative to enjoy them. I just do not know if they would affect the ATV. That is all. Otherwise I am already extremely impressed with the picture quality further upsampled to 8k by the Q900R. thank you
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