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post #25471 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GPowers View Post
The Apple TV sends the Atmos information to your Pre/Pro or receiver using MAT2.0. The most popular concenses is Apple does this because it mixes in the Siri responses.
Siri doesn't speak on the Apple TV but they do opt for Dolby MAT 2.0 so they can inject system sounds when you navigate menus and return to the home screen, etc.
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post #25472 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 07:11 PM
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The ATV not powering on I hope is something that can be fixed with another firmware update. If not I guess I’ll have to go the Harmony coding route. This hobby can drive you nuts if you let it.

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post #25473 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
The Lindy adapter is an option but it doesn't always work.
Can you clarify this? Removing pin 13 always works on the port in question.
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post #25474 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dwander View Post
I see some people having similar issues. I’m assuming it’s since the update but I can’t get the Apple TV to turn on with the remote or my urc. I have to unplug it and plug it back in to turn it on. Then it works fine from there. Any suggestions?
No, what's been (mostly) reported are issues related to some folks Logitech/Harmony remotes. If a paired Siri remote won't wake your ATV4K you should consider having it checked out by a repair facility. For what it's worth my Siri remotes each wake the respective ATV (all running some version of tvOS 13) as does my MX-1200 and Harmony Elite.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #25475 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dwander View Post
The Apple TV remote doesn’t work either so I’m assuming it’s not a universal remote code issue
Haven't used the Apple remote in a long time so I can't speak to that. All I know is that Logitech reprogrammed both of my Harmony 700 remotes to use the Home button to turn on/off the ATV4 and ATV4k so they work as before.

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post #25476 of 26325 Old 10-13-2019, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Can you clarify this? Removing pin 13 always works on the port in question.
There were posts from some who said they had issues with the Lindy adapter working reliably. I just attributed that to a faulty adapter. Physically removing pin 13 from the HDMI cable/port should always work.

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post #25477 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If your theory is that it is related to stream bitrate changing, then you could check that I believe by using xCode on a Mac to enable the developer Heads Up Display on the Apple TV...

Out of interest, what is the rest of the system?...
Thanks, I may try enabling the Dev HUD to monitor if it occurs specifically when the stream bitrate changes.
Re your second question - I'm not doing anything fancy regarding DV to HDR conversion. The system is a Denon AVC-X8500H and an LG 2017 OLED.

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Originally Posted by bl4ck View Post
Noticed this yesterday on In the Shadow of the Moon problem with wrong channels ~1-3s and dropouts \\ atmos
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Originally Posted by Tweeter2002 View Post
I haven't noticed any Atmos issue's other than no LFE. The LFE returned when I did a firmware update on my CX-A5100. What I did notice is odd placement of dialog from "Todd" when Jessie Pinkman was in the cage. Todd's dialog was coming from the front ceiling Atmos speakers when they were both on screen. His dialog was placed properly when only Jessie was on screen and Todd was above or behind Pinkman.
So it looks like it may be widespread, I posted on Reddit here and many others are also facing it. One person said a full factory reset of their AVR seems to have fixed it. I may also try this, but it definitely appears as though it's an issue with the Netflix app so I'll try to file a bug with them directly.

EDIT: I've filed a bug with Netflix with the following text - I'd encourage others affected to do the same so this gets priority:
Quote:
There is a widespread speaker channel mapping issue occurring on your Netflix Apple TV4K app when playing any content with Dolby Atmos audio. The issue results in sound from one channel incorrectly being mapped to another speaker at random sporadic times, resulting in sound "jumping around" in an unnatural way.

This is only occurring on your Apple TV 4K app - all other Netflix apps are unaffected and play Dolby Atmos streams without this bug occurring. I believe the bug may be due to how your stream delivers Dolby Atmos sound in Apple TV's Dolby MAT 2.0 container and is triggered whenever the audio stream bitrate changes (it's as though the stream forgets how many channels are in the sound system).

You can see widespread reports of this at the following links. It is affecting users with different AVRs / systems but the common denominator is the Apple TV 4K Netflix app + Dolby Atmos content:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/com...tflix_atv_app/
2. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post58679484

Please let me know if you need further information regarding this bug.

Last edited by dhruv; 10-14-2019 at 01:59 AM.
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post #25478 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 02:01 AM
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Ok but others Atmos titles like Dark Crystal working fine, this is first time when I noticed problem. I don't think so this is problem with avr.
But I will check this post can be interesting.
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post #25479 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Haven't used the Apple remote in a long time so I can't speak to that. All I know is that Logitech reprogrammed both of my Harmony 700 remotes to use the Home button to turn on/off the ATV4 and ATV4k so they work as before.
Which you could have done yourself
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post #25480 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by frankhj View Post
Which you could have done yourself
Can you elaborate?

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post #25481 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Can you elaborate?
I think he meant most people program their own harmony remotes.
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post #25482 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Can you elaborate?
Use the Myharmony app on a PC. In your Watch AppleTV Activity click on Customize This Activity. Add a step with the Menu command. Reprogram your remote. Done.
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post #25483 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by frankhj View Post
Use the Myharmony app on a PC. In your Watch AppleTV Activity click on Customize This Activity. Add a step with the Menu command. Reprogram your remote. Done.
Thanks, i'll do that now.

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post #25484 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankhj View Post
Which you could have done yourself
Very true. But being as it happened to both of my ATV's right after the tvOS 13 update, I thought I'd give Logitech a call to see if they knew anything about it. They didn't but offered to fix it for me, and there was nothing I could find online that mentioned the issue I was having.
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post #25485 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 08:49 AM
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CEC-Less adapter (Lindy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Can you clarify this? Removing pin 13 always works on the port in question.
I ordered several of the Lindy "CEC-Less" adapters to try, but I found that they were not up to passing 4K HDR data successfully.

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post #25486 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
I ordered several of the Lindy "CEC-Less" adapters to try, but I found that they were not up to passing 4K HDR data successfully.
It's not surprising, 18G HDMI barely works as it is.
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post #25487 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
I ordered several of the Lindy "CEC-Less" adapters to try, but I found that they were not up to passing 4K HDR data successfully.
Really? I've had one on my ATV 4K for a year and a half and it passes HDR10 and DV just fine. Can you elaborate what 'successfully' means.

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post #25488 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It's not surprising, 18G HDMI barely works as it is.
Really. I have no issues at all with 18Gbps when needed for HDR (DV, HDR10). Unless you are referring to CEC and the Lindy adapter, which I don't need or use.

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post #25489 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
I ordered several of the Lindy "CEC-Less" adapters to try, but I found that they were not up to passing 4K HDR data successfully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It's not surprising, 18G HDMI barely works as it is.
Presumably there are other issues involved since capable cables in modern systems work fine at 600MHz. It may be the case that marginal connections fail when various HDMI dongles (Lindy, right-angle, pig tails) are added to the video chain. I use a Lindy, right-angle adapters and HDMI pig tails and have no issues with my 2m certified premium cables.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #25490 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Really. I have no issues at all with 18Gbps when needed for HDR (DV, HDR10). Unless you are referring to CEC and the Lindy adapter, which I don't need or use.
As I said, barely works, only just works, etc. That means it works, but just has almost no margin left, which is why when you do something like sticking an adapter in circuit it is likely to fall over. I'm really looking forward to seeing HDMI2.1 trying to do 48gbps on copper in the wild...
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post #25491 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
As I said, barely works, only just works, etc. That means it works, but just has almost no margin left...
As I said I cascade those "dongles" on 2m cables at full speed and have no issues. HDMI has known limitations but suggesting that it's one inch from failure in a typical, compliant system is an exaggeration.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #25492 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
Really? I've had one on my ATV 4K for a year and a half and it passes HDR10 and DV just fine. Can you elaborate what 'successfully' means.
Of course each system and chain of components is different, what works in one system may break another. It’s essentially two more connections the signal has to pass and may be the straw that broke the signal’s back.
Quote:
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Really. I have no issues at all with 18Gbps when needed for HDR (DV, HDR10). Unless you are referring to CEC and the Lindy adapter, which I don't need or use.
Isn’t the reason you use it to have ARC but defeat CEC?

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post #25493 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bmcleod View Post
Isn’t the reason you use it to have ARC but defeat CEC?
No, you can't have ARC unless there's a CEC connection between the display and the processor/AVR.
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post #25494 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
As I said, barely works, only just works, etc. That means it works, but just has almost no margin left, which is why when you do something like sticking an adapter in circuit it is likely to fall over. I'm really looking forward to seeing HDMI2.1 trying to do 48gbps on copper in the wild...
Passive copper only will probably never be able to handle 48Gbps at lengths longer than 3m (9') reliably, even though that is the maximum distance specified by HDMI 2.1. Hybrid fiber will be the way to go, albeit an expensive one.

I have both of my HTS's setup so that the use of dongles and adapters is not necessary. I believe in keeping my connections as clean and simple as possible. I've never had any issues with 4k HDR with either Premium High Speed HDMI cables or the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at around 10' lengths. I don't understand what you mean by "only just works". You either get a trouble-free connection (no sparkles, drop outs, etc ) or you don't. Anytime you introduce a "break" in the cable chain (adapters, wall plates, dongles, etc) you are running the risk of developing issues because 4k HDR can be very finicky with its connections.

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post #25495 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 10:05 AM
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Apple TV owners' thread. FAQ in first post

Quick question guys,

I currently have a LG HU85LA projector which is HDR10 but NOT Dolby Vision. The projector will accept a Dolby Vision signal and converts it to HDR10, though.

When I use the Netflix app on my ATV 4K, DV titles will have the [VISION] badge on the show's information page, indicating obviously it's available in DV.

When I use the built-in Netflix app on my projector (WebOS), the same show is showing [HDR] in the title's information page.

Does this mean that my ATV is seeing my projector as a DV capable source?

If this is the case, am I better off using the built-in Netflix app on my projector, which of course correctly see the projector as HDR capable?

I'm trying to decipher if I am being affected by the issue of wrong HDR metadata when I watch Netflix and stream local HDR movies on my ATV.

I've tried to do PQ comparisons between the same show when viewed on my ATV vs the projector's built-in app but I'm not quite sure.


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post #25496 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
No, you can't have ARC unless there's a CEC connection between the display and the processor/AVR.
OK, I see, you only use it on non-ARC peripheral devices, where you want to defeat CEC? The comment made it sound like he didn’t mind that CEC doesn’t work, but it still seems that’s the reason you use the Lindy?

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Last edited by bmcleod; 10-14-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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post #25497 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bmcleod View Post
OK, I see, you only use it on non-ARC peripheral devices, where you want to defeat CEC?
Yes, although I would say block rather than defeat.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #25498 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 01:10 PM
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Since a new update last week, my 4th gen ATV (not 4K) won't wake from sleep from the remote.

Anyone else?
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post #25499 of 26325 Old 10-14-2019, 01:33 PM
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I had a freeze with the UI last night where no video was output. However the ATV was responding to homekit queries (it is currently my active HomeKit hub) and was responding to the “home” iOS app. While I’ve seen similar issues in the past with hdmi negotiations, in this case fiddling with the hdmi cable and forcing input switching on my AVR and powering my TV on/off did noting. A power reset (pulling the plug) fixed things up.

The remote appeared to not be responding when this issue happened (Apple remote and harmony remote) but I am not 100 sure that is a true statement. I probably could have done more investigation to determine if it was responding (and just a video issue) but I was just trying to watch something and did not feel like fiddling more.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Quick question guys,

I currently have a LG HU85LA projector which is HDR10 but NOT Dolby Vision. The projector will accept a Dolby Vision signal and converts it to HDR10, though.

When I use the Netflix app on my ATV 4K, DV titles will have the [VISION] badge on the show's information page, indicating obviously it's available in DV.

When I use the built-in Netflix app on my projector (WebOS), the same show is showing [HDR] in the title's information page.

Does this mean that my ATV is seeing my projector as a DV capable source?

If this is the case, am I better off using the built-in Netflix app on my projector, which of course correctly see the projector as HDR capable?

I'm trying to decipher if I am being affected by the issue of wrong HDR metadata when I watch Netflix and stream local HDR movies on my ATV.

I've tried to do PQ comparisons between the same show when viewed on my ATV vs the projector's built-in app but I'm not quite sure.
It is very doubtful the projector is converting DV to HDR10. To do so it would have to be licensed by Dolby, and Dolby don't license to projectors for home use.

The AppleTV Netflix player streams everything in DV for HDR from Netflix servers. It displays DV on screen next to the titles whether your display is HDR10 or DV. If the display is only HDR10 capable then the AppleTV converts DV on the fly to HDR10 with some potentially "interesting" looking metadata that might change every 30s, every 5m05s or never. That metadata has been known to cause issues for:

Sony projectors (fixed by Sony with a FW upgrade)
HDfury users switching projector profiles based on metadata (can't really fix that, it's doing what it has been asked, responding to metadata)
Lumagen video processors (partially fixed, still causes some audio dropout issues in some content).

If you want to verify the conversion process above you need to enable the Developer HUD on the AppleTV via Xcode on a Mac - then you can see on screen the stream format and the display output format. I would bet a few quid in your case the stream format is DV and the output format is HDR10.
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apple 4k tv , Apple Tv Mc572ll A , Apple Tv Md199ll A , grainy , hdr , issue , Samsung

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