New Generation Realteks and 23.976 support? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 39 Old 03-14-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have reliable information on whether the 1055, 1085 and 1185 Realtek chipsets support correct 23.976 fps playback?
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post #2 of 39 Old 03-14-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post
Does anyone have reliable information on whether the 1055, 1085 and 1185 Realtek chipsets support correct 23.976 fps playback?
My cousin has two No Name RealTek 1055 media players from China... do you have a sample file I can test or link me to one to test for you?

What is suppose to happen when it doesn't play it back correctly - so I know what to look for?

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #3 of 39 Old 03-14-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvroadster View Post
My cousin has two No Name RealTek 1055 media players from China... do you have a sample file I can test or link me to one to test for you?

What is suppose to happen when it doesn't play it back correctly - so I know what to look for?
It's been called "stuttering" or "micro-stuttering".
You can check using any file (mkv, for example) with a frame rate of 23.976 fps.

See here: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=23+976
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post #4 of 39 Old 03-14-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post

It's been called "stuttering" or "micro-stuttering".
You can check using any file (mkv, for example) with a frame rate of 23.976 fps.

See here: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=23+976

Thank-you I will get the files and report back by tomorrow?

the Realtek 1055 is basically like the 1085 or 1185 - but the 1055 does not support networking? and supports only 16MB flash (correct me if I am wrong)...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #5 of 39 Old 03-16-2011, 05:59 AM
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Just look for a little hickup every 41 sec.-when 23,976 is not played with 23,976 but with 24,00 1 frame is inserted every 41 sec.
Easiest to catch is end of movie with vertical scrolling when cast etc. is displayed
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post #6 of 39 Old 03-16-2011, 10:16 AM
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It's not as bad as it sounds. Most people won't notice it, even if are looking to find the hiccup, you' ll only notice it once or twice while playing a 90 min movie. Movie scene changes hide most of it
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post #7 of 39 Old 03-17-2011, 02:54 AM
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It's not 'fixed' on the newer Realtek chipsets, but then it is mostly un-noticable.
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post #8 of 39 Old 03-17-2011, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinker442 View Post

It's not as bad as it sounds. Most people won't notice it, even if are looking to find the hiccup, you' ll only notice it once or twice while playing a 90 min movie. Movie scene changes hide most of it

No, it's worse than it sounds.

Based on a 90 min. movie, you'll have the stutter ~128 times . . . try overlooking that.

People who don't notice it probably also don't notice the difference between SD and HD.

Just imagine you buy a car and the engine coughs slightly every 42 sec. while driving . . . would that bother you?
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post #9 of 39 Old 03-17-2011, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iboum View Post

It's not 'fixed' on the newer Realtek chipsets, but then it is mostly un-noticable.

Interesting. Someone reported that the AC Ryan POHD Mini 2 doesn't have the issue.
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post #10 of 39 Old 03-17-2011, 08:33 AM
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From what I've been reading, it also depends on the TV. If it supports 24hz the 23.976fps shouldn't be noticeable. Realtek chipsets doesn't support 23.976fps I'm afraid. There is no setting for it.
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post #11 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 02:57 AM
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post #12 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 02:57 AM
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post #13 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 09:51 AM
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This is interesting. I think this is the same issue I'm encountering with my dune. It's kind of like a micro stutter as mentioned but it does not affect sound in any way, correct? In my setup, the dune is set to output 1080p24 with autoframe rate enabled and that signal then gets fed to my external scaler which outputs 1080p24 to my jvc rs35 pj. I always thought this stutter was a cadence issue with my scaler but now I'm thinking otherwise. I think the dune is able to output 1080p23.9 in the settings. Would this eliminate the stutter?
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post #14 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

This is interesting. I think this is the same issue I'm encountering with my dune. It's kind of like a micro stutter as mentioned but it does not affect sound in any way, correct? In my setup, the dune is set to output 1080p24 with autoframe rate enabled and that signal then gets fed to my external scaler which outputs 1080p24 to my jvc rs35 pj. I always thought this stutter was a cadence issue with my scaler but now I'm thinking otherwise. I think the dune is able to output 1080p23.9 in the settings. Would this eliminate the stutter?

You need to set the frame rate to 23.976 and Auto-Framerate to 24/50/60. That will work, provided any/all other equipment is compatible.
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post #15 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post

No, it's worse than it sounds.

It's highly exaggerated although it may occasionally be noticeable. It's an
error of approximately 0.099%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post

Just imagine you buy a car and the engine coughs slightly every 42 sec. while driving

Just imagine if your car got 25MPG and once every 42 seconds the
mileage dropped to 24.975MPG.
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post #16 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilcar Barca View Post
It's highly exaggerated although it may occasionally be noticeable. It's an
error of approximately 0.099%.
"Occasionally"? 128 times in 90 minutes? Come on . . . !

All you have to do is try watching a movie with frequent camera pans and zooms (like "Planet Earth") and it'll drive you crazy.

For those with players that play 23.976 correctly, try setting your frame rate to 24Hz (instead of 23.976) and watch a Blu-ray, just to see the difference. Not noticeable?

I'm fine with people liking their MPs for what they can do, and living with what they can't, although I can't understand them not noticing it if they watch a lot of HD stuff.

Oh well, live and let live.
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post #17 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 05:10 PM
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Not to divert the discussion away from realtek, but do Sigma chips have either the same or similar problems with regards to frame rates???
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post #18 of 39 Old 03-18-2011, 06:12 PM
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I disagree with it being unnoticeable. It may be 'ignored', but it is obvious, at least to me.

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post #19 of 39 Old 03-19-2011, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinker442 View Post

It's not as bad as it sounds. Most people won't notice it, even if are looking to find the hiccup, you' ll only notice it once or twice while playing a 90 min movie. Movie scene changes hide most of it

i had a wdtv v1 (i think i posted about the issue a few times), and a realtek player, both had the problem. it was not acceptable and alot worse than you make it out to be.

i couldnt watch a film with it like that. i see almost all of the hiccups.

i have a dune prime and its fine. i was just wondering if realtek had fixed this
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post #20 of 39 Old 03-19-2011, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishOil View Post

Not to divert the discussion away from realtek, but do Sigma chips have either the same or similar problems with regards to frame rates???

Sigmas don`t have this bug.

General comment.
Playing a movie with the correct framerate is the most basic "feature" I would expect from any mediaplayer.

My only guess why this bug can occur in Realteks is the realtek engineers have no clue about framerates of movies.
Embarassing.
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post #21 of 39 Old 03-19-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmaolmao View Post

i had a wdtv v1 (i think i posted about the issue a few times), and a realtek player, both had the problem. it was not acceptable and alot worse than you make it out to be.

i couldnt watch a film with it like that. i see almost all of the hiccups.

i have a dune prime and its fine. i was just wondering if realtek had fixed this

I had a wdtv1 and it was as bad as you say. Unwatchable. But with the new realteks, boxchips and others I can watch a movie no problem. I 'm not saying it isn't there or they shouldn't fix it.
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post #22 of 39 Old 03-19-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post

I disagree with it being unnoticeable. It may be 'ignored', but it is obvious, at least to me.

I agree... I finally got around to test it on a RealTek 1055 player... and it is pretty damn noticeable on a 42inch and 52inch HDTV. - I got a headache after awhile.. on a 32inch 1080i/720p you may not notice or not bothered as much...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #23 of 39 Old 03-20-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc View Post

Sigmas don`t have this bug.

General comment.
Playing a movie with the correct framerate is the most basic "feature" I would expect from any mediaplayer.

My only guess why this bug can occur in Realteks is the realtek engineers have no clue about framerates of movies.
Embarassing.

Thanks for the clarification.
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post #24 of 39 Old 03-20-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iboum View Post

It's not 'fixed' on the newer Realtek chipsets, but then it is mostly un-noticable.

I don't own a media player yet (let alone one with a Realtek chip) so I can't say whether it would be bothersome or not, but I don't get why they wouldn't have corrected an obvious flaw.
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post #25 of 39 Old 03-20-2011, 11:38 PM
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Because it's Realtek. It took them 15 years to design a proper NIC / network processor, or drivers for that matter. There is a reason why their stuff (still) is avoided like the plague in professional environments...

(their newer stuff is actually ok though, but prejudices don't die quickly, especially those that have grown over years of painful experience...)
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post #26 of 39 Old 03-27-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post

You need to set the frame rate to 23.976 and Auto-Framerate to 24/50/60. That will work, provided any/all other equipment is compatible.

i have auto framrate at 24/60 and 1080p24. i tried using 1080p23.976 but i find there is more motion judder with slow pans compared to 1080p24. i didn't watch an entire movie with 1080p23.976 to see if the micro judder is reduced but im not sure which is more of a tradeoff. i wonder if (and when) HDI offers a true source direct option on the dune to output if that would eliminate all these annoyances.
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post #27 of 39 Old 03-28-2011, 01:51 AM
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the problem (as i see it) for source direct, is when you have a 720p 23.976 video, it will output as 720p 59.94Hz.

meaning for normal users it's a bit cack. but if you have a scaler which can ivtc back to 23.976hz and upto 1080p then i guess it's OK.
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post #28 of 39 Old 03-28-2011, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

i have auto framrate at 24/60 and 1080p24. i tried using 1080p23.976 but i find there is more motion judder with slow pans compared to 1080p24. i didn't watch an entire movie with 1080p23.976 to see if the micro judder is reduced but im not sure which is more of a tradeoff. i wonder if (and when) HDI offers a true source direct option on the dune to output if that would eliminate all these annoyances.

There is of course a certain amount of "natural judder" with 23.976 material, just like at the movies, but everyone knows what that looks like.

It obviously can't look completely smooth llike PAL (interlaced), for example.

But it should play flawlessly at the 23.976 setting . . . the 24HZ setting will give you the 42 sec. hiccups for sure.

This is all assuming your TV is capable of course . . . .
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post #29 of 39 Old 03-28-2011, 08:23 AM
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since i use an external scaler that outputs 1080p24 into my jvc pj that can accept and play 1080p24 signals, im wondering if setting the dune to output 1080p23.976 and then the scaler having to scale to 1080p24 is the reason there is more panning judder than when i set the dune to 1080p24. that extra conversion taking place from the dune to the scaler may be what im seeing. but the micro stutter is obvious to me (not to anyone else though). my oppo bluray player does not do this with physical media so im wondering if its sigma as well as realtak with this issue and why.
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post #30 of 39 Old 03-28-2011, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

since i use an external scaler that outputs 1080p24 into my jvc pj that can accept and play 1080p24 signals, im wondering if setting the dune to output 1080p23.976 and then the scaler having to scale to 1080p24 is the reason there is more panning judder than when i set the dune to 1080p24. that extra conversion taking place from the dune to the scaler may be what im seeing. but the micro stutter is obvious to me (not to anyone else though). my oppo bluray player does not do this with physical media so im wondering if its sigma as well as realtak with this issue and why.

Try to connect the Dune via HDMI to your TV directly and then see what it looks like.
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