Giving Up on Blu-Ray: Why I Switched to The Cloud - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post
The problem I have with this "cloud" thing is exactly what is meant by "cloud"? If folks are talking about Netflix, Hulu, etc., okay, cloud away.

But if folks are talking about grabbing stuff off torrents, stuff that has been copied and made available illegally, than I'm sorry but I have a problem with that kind of "cloud".

I see threads like this on my media player support forum all the time.

"How do I make sub titles work with file such and such..." And you find out they've grabbed the movie off some torrent, they've downloaded the subtitles off some other torrent and they are trying to make it all work.

If they had the media and were archiving it and the subtitles, they'd have no problem.

You can argue all day about whether the media industry is making too much money as if some how that justifies stealing. Stealing is stealing.

It is the case that some of this "cloud" stuff has made it very difficult for folks such as myself and lots of others to archive owned media and use our owned media the way we prefer.
Cloud computing, some of which this type of media access comes from is based on having an easy way to access through a network, data stored on large servers. Software has been designed to make this type of access simple and standard.

It's used in many applications, most of which have nothing to do with media distribution. Netflix streaming, etc. are not dependent on cloud computing, neither are torrents. Those are mostly distributed servers which are equivalent to the servers that are the backbone for the whole internet.

I use a 'personal cloud' to access my data - documents, photographs, etc. from my NAS to wherever I am.

So 'cloud' is a term for some new software that provides easier access to server data. Torrents are a different animal that existed before any established cloud. Many of your banking services, consumer services, etc. are moving to cloud computing now. So to confuse cloud computing with torrents would be like confusing the ocean with a small tidal pool.

As far as torrents, ripping, copying, etc. there is no correlation. Marketing or legal idiots are confusing the issue.
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post #452 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, if it helps you sleep better at night thinking that just because you read some random DIY threads and you did a measurement with a device that most likely isn't accurate and it gave you the comfort that you were looking for then by all means.
It appears you have underestimated me and my experience with bass. Please stop being a distraction in this article's discussion by insisting that infrasonic bass cannot be reproduced in a typical home theater. You are wrong about that; it's well-established, scientifically proven fact that you can reproduce those frequencies; furthermore, there are numerous AVS members who have that exact capability in their homes.

Here's an article I wrote recently... Bass: How Low Should You Go? I recommend reading the comments first; there is a tremendous amount of good info in there, especially the contributions from Mark Seaton.

Also, check out the first HToM, which I wrote up... Home Theater of the Month: Popalock's "Bassment"—Big Screen, Bigger Subs That theater's subs play down to 8Hz and below at ridiculous SPLs.

As for being friends with experts on the topic of bass, I happen to know Keith Yates. Look him up—he's got the knowledge, and he's got the tools to measure deep bass accurately.

It's been nice chatting. If you wish to continue this discussion, my Bass: How Low Should You Go article is the right place for it. Thank you

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
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post #453 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:04 AM
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This topic made me realize something. I have rights to ultraviolet movies. To view them I ask for service from a third party service provider such as vudu, flixster, target ticket, cinema now.

Those third parties have rules commonly called terms of service. These rules often change and you have to agree to them to use the service.

To assume future terms of service will always favor the end user is a bit daft. Could all the third party service providers add advertisements. Bet on it.
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post #454 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:18 AM
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[quote=Brian Hampton;24960953]
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post



Streaming*

Streaming UltraViolet™ movies and TV shows requires a high-speed Internet connection. UltraViolet™ streaming providers make your movies and TV shows available on demand on a variety of devices and services.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series from the provider you redeemed from comes at no extra cost above the original content purchase price, for at least one year after redemption. This no-extra-charge streaming will be offered to specific apps/devices, and is determined by the UltraViolet™ provider.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series more than a year after its redemption, or via streaming services other than the UltraViolet™ provider, may incur fees. Any such fees would be presented to the consumer in advance of streaming titles, with the option to accept the fees or decline using that streaming service.

Streaming availability may also be subject to restrictions that exist for certain periods of time, for certain titles.





HOLY SMOKES!!! Free forever meaning 1 full year!!! Also .. like how that last sentence leaves the door open for absolutely anything at all?...

I redeem the UV that comes with my Blus but no way I'm going to buy any going forward. (I did buy a few d2d in the past.)

My guess, and it's only a guess, is soon you will have to view an ad to see your own movies... like youtube or vevo or hulu or just about any popular streaming service. I do believe that is coming and it's going to throw cold water on nearly every user.

You guys do see this right?..!.. ?... it's messed up ! I'll keep redeeming the free copies I get with my Blus but real cash money to these services is NO.

You mention UV streaming, this is not an issue if you download your media from a UV source. Also, I have never had a UV movie go away on the streaming side of things since I have been using the system.
Do you have a link to a source for Ultraviolet having ad views or is that just speculation on your part? Ive been a member here for many years (both my husband and I) and Ive seen lots of "Speculation" thats never happened in the world of home video.
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post #455 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:22 AM
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[quote=Dr_jitsu;24963385]
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post



Streaming*

Streaming UltraViolet™ movies and TV shows requires a high-speed Internet connection. UltraViolet™ streaming providers make your movies and TV shows available on demand on a variety of devices and services.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series from the provider you redeemed from comes at no extra cost above the original content purchase price, for at least one year after redemption. This no-extra-charge streaming will be offered to specific apps/devices, and is determined by the UltraViolet™ provider.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series more than a year after its redemption, or via streaming services other than the UltraViolet™ provider, may incur fees. Any such fees would be presented to the consumer in advance of streaming titles, with the option to accept the fees or decline using that streaming service.

Streaming availability may also be subject to restrictions that exist for certain periods of time, for certain titles.





HOLY SMOKES!!! Free forever meaning 1 full year!!! Also .. like how that last sentence leaves the door open for absolutely anything at all?...

I redeem the UV that comes with my Blus but no way I'm going to buy any going forward. (I did buy a few d2d in the past.)

My guess, and it's only a guess, is soon you will have to view an ad to see your own movies... like youtube or vevo or hulu or just about any popular streaming service. I do believe that is coming and it's going to throw cold water on nearly every user.

You guys do see this right?..!.. ?... it's messed up ! I'll keep redeeming the free copies I get with my Blus but real cash money to these services is NO.
As I noted above, I need about 3-5 years to pass, then the second viewing is a treat. Blu Ray, DVD ownership is the only sure fire option. And of course this fact is separate from the far superior audio I get.

Eventually I will stream, but right now the sound quality and durability are not there.
If that's a treat then downloading to your own storage source, well that, I guess is a banquet.
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post #456 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SirJMon View Post
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I own approximately 250 blu-ray and probably 30 Vudu titles. I have a 2.39:1 screen that is 9ft wide that i sit 13.3 ft from (eyes to screen). I can definitely see a difference in the sharpness of the picture between blu-ray and Vudu at this screen size and distance but most of my friends would never care enough to mess with owning blu-rays. Unfortunately most people do not either sit close enough to their "normal size" 60" - 65" tv or own large enough screen to see a visual difference but it is there. And like most things, unless you do an A/B comparison with the soundtrack most people will be happy with Vudu or other streaming services.
Unfortunately that is the world we live in now-a-days. People trade quality for conveinence. There is too much "1 step forward, 2 steps back" in the name of conveinence and then people try to sell it as "better".
Why do so many people keep saying you have to have a certain huge size to notice the sharpness? All I keep seeing is people saying 60" and below you wont notice the difference. I can see how great Blu-Ray's crispness whether it's 32", 46" and 50".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlalotoani View Post
As long as I can´t afford a wider internet broadband, i´ll stick to BD
Must be nice for those in America that can pay more for faster speeds. Wish I had that option but in the UK, how long your line is depends on what you can get. Especially the fact it's copper and even some really old lines have some aluminium and copper.

Even if I had the option to be hundreds I still couldn't get a faster connection. Somebody would need to bring fiber out to me. As engineers told me, it'll never happen in their lifetime.

Last night I got this movie from Playstation Store, REPLACEMENT COPS (or whatever its name is), was a BAD movie by the way, and the best image quality I could get was like DVD, I had better image quality from youtube videos, so FOR ME, movie streaming is not even in cosideration because I´m not willing to pay MORE for a faster internet connection.

BTW, I watch Blurays on a 32" 720p tv.

Image quality is far more than just resolution.
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post #457 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:37 AM
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Hey, if it helps you sleep better at night thinking that just because you read some random DIY threads and you did a measurement with a device that most likely isn't accurate and it gave you the comfort that you were looking for then by all means.
It appears you have underestimated me and my experience with bass. Please stop being a distraction in this article's discussion by insisting that infrasonic bass cannot be reproduced in a typical home theater. You are wrong about that; it's well-established, scientifically proven fact that you can reproduce those frequencies; furthermore, there are numerous AVS members who have that exact capability in their homes.

Here's an article I wrote recently... Bass: How Low Should You Go? I recommend reading the comments first; there is a tremendous amount of good info in there, especially the contributions from Mark Seaton.

Also, check out the first HToM, which I wrote up... Home Theater of the Month: Popalock's "Bassment"—Big Screen, Bigger Subs That theater's subs play down to 8Hz and below at ridiculous SPLs.

As for being friends with experts on the topic of bass, I happen to know Keith Yates. Look him up—he's got the knowledge, and he's got the tools to measure deep bass accurately.

It's been nice chatting. If you wish to continue this discussion, my Bass: How Low Should You Go article is the right place for it. Thank you
Ok fair enough I will end with this.

Thanks for the links. I will check them out later. However, remember that for every article that says you can, I can link one that says otherwise. I doubt you can even hear 8-14hz so to say you do at "reference" level is laughable. Also remember I said that "wasn't 50db down". Was being sarcastic to make a point.

Numbers are created and used to "sell" a product. Hence why darn near every consumer speaker sold say 20hz-20k khz and why displays claim outrageous CR numbers like 100,000:1 that are total BS and unrealistic. How I miss the http://www.theaudiocritic.com/

Jeff

Mediocrity will always appeal to the masses, while excellence is most often over looked and only appreciated by a select few.
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post #458 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:37 AM
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[quote=TowerGrove;24966593]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post



Streaming*

Streaming UltraViolet™ movies and TV shows requires a high-speed Internet connection. UltraViolet™ streaming providers make your movies and TV shows available on demand on a variety of devices and services.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series from the provider you redeemed from comes at no extra cost above the original content purchase price, for at least one year after redemption. This no-extra-charge streaming will be offered to specific apps/devices, and is determined by the UltraViolet™ provider.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series more than a year after its redemption, or via streaming services other than the UltraViolet™ provider, may incur fees. Any such fees would be presented to the consumer in advance of streaming titles, with the option to accept the fees or decline using that streaming service.

Streaming availability may also be subject to restrictions that exist for certain periods of time, for certain titles.





HOLY SMOKES!!! Free forever meaning 1 full year!!! Also .. like how that last sentence leaves the door open for absolutely anything at all?...

I redeem the UV that comes with my Blus but no way I'm going to buy any going forward. (I did buy a few d2d in the past.)

My guess, and it's only a guess, is soon you will have to view an ad to see your own movies... like youtube or vevo or hulu or just about any popular streaming service. I do believe that is coming and it's going to throw cold water on nearly every user.

You guys do see this right?..!.. ?... it's messed up ! I'll keep redeeming the free copies I get with my Blus but real cash money to these services is NO.

You mention UV streaming, this is not an issue if you download your media from a UV source. Also, I have never had a UV movie go away on the streaming side of things since I have been using the system.
Do you have a link to a source for Ultraviolet having ad views or is that just speculation on your part? Ive been a member here for many years (both my husband and I) and Ive seen lots of "Speculation" thats never happened in the world of home video.
VUDU downloads, if they're available for your device, are rarely available in HDX or even HD. Not really much benefit there.

Looky here!
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post #459 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 11:54 AM
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Found another confirmation of the time limit on uvdemystified dot com.


Here are the facts:

UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.
UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)
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post #460 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 12:21 PM
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[quote=TowerGrove;24966681]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post



Streaming*

Streaming UltraViolet™ movies and TV shows requires a high-speed Internet connection. UltraViolet™ streaming providers make your movies and TV shows available on demand on a variety of devices and services.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series from the provider you redeemed from comes at no extra cost above the original content purchase price, for at least one year after redemption. This no-extra-charge streaming will be offered to specific apps/devices, and is determined by the UltraViolet™ provider.

Streaming an UltraViolet™ movie or TV series more than a year after its redemption, or via streaming services other than the UltraViolet™ provider, may incur fees. Any such fees would be presented to the consumer in advance of streaming titles, with the option to accept the fees or decline using that streaming service.

Streaming availability may also be subject to restrictions that exist for certain periods of time, for certain titles.





HOLY SMOKES!!! Free forever meaning 1 full year!!! Also .. like how that last sentence leaves the door open for absolutely anything at all?...

I redeem the UV that comes with my Blus but no way I'm going to buy any going forward. (I did buy a few d2d in the past.)

My guess, and it's only a guess, is soon you will have to view an ad to see your own movies... like youtube or vevo or hulu or just about any popular streaming service. I do believe that is coming and it's going to throw cold water on nearly every user.

You guys do see this right?..!.. ?... it's messed up ! I'll keep redeeming the free copies I get with my Blus but real cash money to these services is NO.
As I noted above, I need about 3-5 years to pass, then the second viewing is a treat. Blu Ray, DVD ownership is the only sure fire option. And of course this fact is separate from the far superior audio I get.

Eventually I will stream, but right now the sound quality and durability are not there.
If that's a treat then downloading to your own storage source, well that, I guess is a banquet.
Why would I consider crappy sound a banquet? A dozen Big Macs does not a banquet make.

However, I did not know that we could download to our own storage device.
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post #461 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 01:12 PM
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. . .(Yes, I know that CDs are also compressed analog recordings too, so MP3s are compressed versions of already compressed audio, but I am not an audiophile, so for me I don't care).
. . .
Actually, CD audio is not "data compressed" - it's straight PCM sampled at 44.1 Khz and a 16 bit word length, and given the file extension WAV. It has a quieter noise floor and more dynamic range and a wider frequency response than either tape or vinyl.

Don't blame CDs for the choice by record producers to use dynamic range compression on everything they put out - they did that with LPs as well.
I think that we are looking at some level of semantics here. CDs are agreeably at 44.1 KHz and 16-bit, but there are other formats out there with much great fidelity. For example, high resolution audio files can reach as high as 192KHz/32-Bit, even though most are often available at 96KHz/24-Bit.

That high resolution version came from high resolution master. If that same master was used, but the output destination was a CD, then you are getting "only" 44.1 KHz and 16-bit, which means that SOME data SOMEWHERE is left in the proverbial bit-bucket. That is the same idea as compression of data. You eliminate repeating bits, scrape off the ultra high and low parts that probably won't be heard, and so forth.

So in effect, CD audio still isn't as good as what many masters are recording at as it has less data and thus my use of the term "compressed."

I never said that it was worse than tape or vinyl. I was talking about analog masters. My mistake for not making that more clear. Of course there are a number of examples of great, good, and bad masters, or conversions to any final format.
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post #462 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 02:12 PM
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BTW, I watch Blurays on a 32" 720p tv.

Image quality is far more than just resolution.
Of course but so many are clamouring on how one needs monster viewing for Blu-Ray. If one has a good screen no matter the size, Blu-Ray will look great no matter the size.
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post #463 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 03:52 PM
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Hey, if it helps you sleep better at night thinking that just because you read some random DIY threads and you did a measurement with a device that most likely isn't accurate and it gave you the comfort that you were looking for then by all means.
It appears you have underestimated me and my experience with bass. Please stop being a distraction in this article's discussion by insisting that infrasonic bass cannot be reproduced in a typical home theater. You are wrong about that; it's well-established, scientifically proven fact that you can reproduce those frequencies; furthermore, there are numerous AVS members who have that exact capability in their homes.

Here's an article I wrote recently... Bass: How Low Should You Go? I recommend reading the comments first; there is a tremendous amount of good info in there, especially the contributions from Mark Seaton.

Also, check out the first HToM, which I wrote up... Home Theater of the Month: Popalock's "Bassment"—Big Screen, Bigger Subs That theater's subs play down to 8Hz and below at ridiculous SPLs.

As for being friends with experts on the topic of bass, I happen to know Keith Yates. Look him up—he's got the knowledge, and he's got the tools to measure deep bass accurately.

It's been nice chatting. If you wish to continue this discussion, my Bass: How Low Should You Go article is the right place for it. Thank you
Ok fair enough I will end with this.

Thanks for the links. I will check them out later. However, remember that for every article that says you can, I can link one that says otherwise. I doubt you can even hear 8-14hz so to say you do at "reference" level is laughable. Also remember I said that "wasn't 50db down". Was being sarcastic to make a point.

Numbers are created and used to "sell" a product. Hence why darn near every consumer speaker sold say 20hz-20k khz and why displays claim outrageous CR numbers like 100,000:1 that are total BS and unrealistic. How I miss the http://www.theaudiocritic.com/

People aren't saying that they can actually hear the 8-16hz tones, but they can feel them.
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post #464 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 07:21 PM
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DVD-based DTS has a bit rate over three times that of DD: 1536 for DTS vs 448 kbps for DD. Divide those by the six tracks that 5.1 requires and then double that for stereo (or just divide by 3!), and that works out to DD being roughly equivalent to 149.333 kbps mp3 stereo, and DTS being roughly equivalent to 512 3 kbps mp3 stereo.

That's why DTS sounded better than DD on DVDs.
This is actually an unfair comparison since they are different algorithms. It would be like comparing mp3 to aac at the same bitrate. I recall reading a paper about the difference and Dolby just has a more efficient algorithm and therefore can get away with a lower bit rate. Maybe not 3x but the reality is on DVD that DTS and DD are very comparable. There were a few instances where there were actually separate mixes done for each codec but that was the norm. Also, DTS does not use dialnorm and there playback level tended to be a few db louder on DTS, so if you listened at the same level on the volume dial may people would say DTS would sound better since it was louder.

I haven't seen anything about the audio bitrate of the streaming media to know how it compares. But also need to keep in mind that the lossy DD and DTS tracks on the Blu-ray have higher bit rates than on DVD. I recall another paper (I'll have to try and dig up a couple of these) discussing the audible differences between the higher bitrate DD, DD+ and TrueHD. Even the high bitrate DD was pushing the edges of audible differences but they were there. DD+ was shown to be nearly transparent to TrueHD.
Full bit rate DD+ can be very good. Vudu would have to triple their bitrate to have full bit rate DD+.
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post #465 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 07:25 PM
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Found another confirmation of the time limit on uvdemystified dot com.


Here are the facts:

UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.
UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)
Okay now you made me worry about my nearly three dozen UV titles....
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post #466 of 706 Old 06-14-2014, 09:03 PM
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Experiments with downloads

My UV library, for which I've paid nothing, started with three UV coupons tucked into Blu-rays, which I found while cleaning house: Cloud Atlas, The Dark Knight Rises, and Gravity. I was directed to flixster.com to redeem them, which had me create an account, and created a parallel account with UV with the same login. All were marked as being "owned" by me in HDX (though what that means appears to be less than meets the eye), and downloadable in HDX as well.

Flixster also dumped an SD copy of Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery into my account. When I found that I couldn't watch them on my PC in other than SD, and l looked at the options for playing films, I saw VUDU and remembered that my Oppo has a Vudu app, so I created an account there as well, also linked to the UV account.

Bingo! VUDU immediately gave me my choice of five free films from a list of about 30, so i picked Rango, which I had watched on Amazon Prime and liked, Master and Commander which I haven't seen, Bean, which is fun, and, based on the previews, Mike Myers' So I Married an Ax Murderer and Sandra Bullock's Hope Floats.

I then went through the rest of my Blu-ray cases and found coupons for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man 2, the Andrew Garfield The Amazing Spider-Man, the Robert Downey Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows, and Ghostbusters

They play well through my Oppo BDP-93, which is on a wired connection to my router.

Because of the controversy about long-term streaming availability, I tried doing a download. All of the HDX films I have are available for HDX dowload except Bean, which is limited to SD download. (What a tragedy!)

I decided to download Rango, which I know I like, from VUDU. It had me install VUDU To Go, but balked at downloading either the HDX or HD versions because my PC isn't using HDCP to connect to its display. SD only on that box.

Went down to my theater, where I have a laptop that has an HDMI connection to my projector. If the projector wasn't showing what was on the laptop's screen, it wouldn't start a better than SD download, but with the projector active it downloaded it in HDX.

Next came playback. Couldn't play my HDX download unless the projector was showing it - and there's no fallback to SD, which is a separate download.

Once the projector was activated, I could play the film on the projector and built-in display simultaneously, so I don't see what is gained by requiring an HDCP display to be in operation as well.

Even when I could play it, clicking on the icon to go fullscreen in the VUDU To Go player (a pair of diagonal arrows pointed outwards) simply blacked out both screens completely! (Same thing happened with only the projector active.) You can maximize the window in the area above the taskbar, but it's both letterboxed and pillarboxed. No fullscreen for you!

How about using the Oppo to play the download? Well, considerable poking around on the hard drive was needed to even find it, as neither the movie's name nor the word VUDU is used in the path. The name of the Rango movie file is 9000Seg1.f4f and from downloading another film, I found that only the four digit number was different.

My UPnP/DLNA server, oShare, wouldn't even show it as existing, since it was not a standard media file extension. I experimentally changed the extension to MP4. which let the Oppo see it and try to open it. It sat at 50% loaded for a while and had to be powered down to get out of that loop!

I clicked on the renamed file and Windows Media Player tried to play it but gave up. I also dragged the SD download into VLC on my desktop with the same result.

If anyone here has figured out how to play an HDX download on a laptop without an external HDMI display attached, I'd love to hear how.
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You mention UV streaming, this is not an issue if you download your media from a UV source.
Until they switch the DRM scheme or charge you extra for your (old) players to playback the stuff.

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Quote: Originally Posted by elario

Quote: Originally Posted by imagic

I do not break any of the laws you mentioned on a regular basis, mostly because I do not own a car, I do not commute, and where I live (center city Philly) pedestrians have the right of way. And I do not sing happy birthday in public. I turn my phone's WiFi off when I walk my dog, and whenever I leave home.

I even buy all my music.


Those examples were just a quick illustration. I could list literally hundreds of silly or obscure laws that 'honest law abiding' people break every day.

Suffice to say I guarantee you break some laws, we all do. So please come down off your high horse. If you won't rip discs for other reasons (cost, lack of technical knowledge etc.) that's fine.


No high horse. You can accept my reason at face value, I respect copyright law. I certainly have the technical knowledge. What does cost have to do with it?
You certainly sound like a shill for the digital streaming industry, blu-ray is superior for security and playability and video & audio than streaming ever will be.
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My UV library, for which I've paid nothing, started with three UV coupons tucked into Blu-rays, which I found while cleaning house: Cloud Atlas, The Dark Knight Rises, and Gravity. I was directed to flixster.com to redeem them, which had me create an account, and created a parallel account with UV with the same login. All were marked as being "owned" by me in HDX (though what that means appears to be less than meets the eye), and downloadable in HDX as well.

Flixster also dumped an SD copy of Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery into my account. When I found that I couldn't watch them on my PC in other than SD, and l looked at the options for playing films, I saw VUDU and remembered that my Oppo has a Vudu app, so I created an account there as well, also linked to the UV account.

Bingo! VUDU immediately gave me my choice of five free films from a list of about 30, so i picked Rango, which I had watched on Amazon Prime and liked, Master and Commander which I haven't seen, Bean, which is fun, and, based on the previews, Mike Myers' So I Married an Ax Murderer and Sandra Bullock's Hope Floats.

I then went through the rest of my Blu-ray cases and found coupons for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man 2, the Andrew Garfield The Amazing Spider-Man, the Robert Downey Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows, and Ghostbusters

They play well through my Oppo BDP-93, which is on a wired connection to my router.

Because of the controversy about long-term streaming availability, I tried doing a download. All of the HDX films I have are available for HDX dowload except Bean, which is limited to SD download. (What a tragedy!)

I decided to download Rango, which I know I like, from VUDU. It had me install VUDU To Go, but balked at downloading either the HDX or HD versions because my PC isn't using HDCP to connect to its display. SD only on that box.

Went down to my theater, where I have a laptop that has an HDMI connection to my projector. If the projector wasn't showing what was on the laptop's screen, it wouldn't start a better than SD download, but with the projector active it downloaded it in HDX.

Next came playback. Couldn't play my HDX download unless the projector was showing it - and there's no fallback to SD, which is a separate download.

Once the projector was activated, I could play the film on the projector and built-in display simultaneously, so I don't see what is gained by requiring an HDCP display to be in operation as well.

Even when I could play it, clicking on the icon to go fullscreen in the VUDU To Go player (a pair of diagonal arrows pointed outwards) simply blacked out both screens completely! (Same thing happened with only the projector active.) You can maximize the window in the area above the taskbar, but it's both letterboxed and pillarboxed. No fullscreen for you!

How about using the Oppo to play the download? Well, considerable poking around on the hard drive was needed to even find it, as neither the movie's name nor the word VUDU is used in the path. The name of the Rango movie file is 9000Seg1.f4f and from downloading another film, I found that only the four digit number was different.

My UPnP/DLNA server, oShare, wouldn't even show it as existing, since it was not a standard media file extension. I experimentally changed the extension to MP4. which let the Oppo see it and try to open it. It sat at 50% loaded for a while and had to be powered down to get out of that loop!

I clicked on the renamed file and Windows Media Player tried to play it but gave up. I also dragged the SD download into VLC on my desktop with the same result.

If anyone here has figured out how to play an HDX download on a laptop without an external HDMI display attached, I'd love to hear how.
Your experience is similar to mine, except I gave up on the HTPC route, and just got a PS3 to download to. Yes, the (especially) audio quality is inferior, but where I live, that's just about the only rental option.

Streaming is not reliable, which means while I can download an HDX rental, I have to avoid streaming the UV HDX movies I own, since it is an exercise in frustration (or SD).

[quote=TowerGrove;24966593][quote=Brian Hampton;24960953]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post





You mention UV streaming, this is not an issue if you download your media from a UV source.
HTPC's are monstrously user unfriendly. Yes, I have owned several and managed to use them, but they are completely disastrous in a household with non techies. Is there a user friendly way to download owned HDX movies?
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HTPC's are monstrously user unfriendly. Yes, I have owned several and managed to use them, but they are completely disastrous in a household with non techies. Is there a user friendly way to download owned HDX movies?
HTPC is fine if you want to devote a big part of your life to it. It's a hobby of it's own so not for everyone ... certainly not for me.

As far as trying to DL ultraviolet... I just don't... the part about it being stored and maintained off site is part of what makes it interesting to me.

Even so... from this point on I'm only interested provided it remains free. I'm not doing anymore D2D or buying anymore UV. I will still redeem freebies (that come with movies I buy on Blu) and that's the end of my interest.
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HTPC is fine if you want to devote a big part of your life to it. It's a hobby of it's own so not for everyone ... certainly not for me.
Hyperbole. I have used a HTPC instead of TiVo for the last two years and spent zero extra time "devoting a big part of my life" Now in total time I have spent more hours since it does more. Heck I have even tweaked it when I wanted. Appliance wise no more or less than TiVo.

In those two years the biggest issue was one local channel "getting lost" a couple of times... I purchased another TiVo and it had the exact same issue. Since I didn't want to devote the rest of my life to TiVo I returned it.

Somehow I don't consider using a Harmony remote unfriendly...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
HTPC is fine if you want to devote a big part of your life to it. It's a hobby of it's own so not for everyone ... certainly not for me.
Hyperbole. I have used a HTPC instead of TiVo for the last two years and spent zero extra time "devoting a big part of my life" Now in total time I have spent more hours since it does more. Heck I have even tweaked it when I wanted. Appliance wise no more or less than TiVo.

In those two years the biggest issue was one local channel "getting lost" a couple of times... I purchased another TiVo and it had the exact same issue. Since I didn't want to devote the rest of my life to TiVo I returned it.

Somehow I don't consider using a Harmony remote unfriendly...
All I can answer that with is everyone's experience with HTPC is different. I started with a HTPC back in 1999 and at that time it was a cheap way to make a fantastic scaler and DVD playback machine. I've never been interested in broadcast or TV .. (apart from TV on disc.) Back then lots of great HTPC software was free ... Dscaler, Zoomplayer (with WinDVD decoders), Reclock, FFDShow, Girder. For me it was a hobby and a major time sink which I enjoyed.


If you don't think they are time consuming .. fine... I think my point was they don't appeal to everyone ... if you don't agree with that ... that's fine too.

Edit- Don't understand the Harmony Remote comment. I used Harmony remotes but now I use Roomie and IP control only.


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All I can answer that with is everyone's experience with HTPC is different.
My belief is based on the overall user experience posted in my thread over the last two years. Sure you'll fine a rant or two just as you will if you view the TiVo thread. However the user experience has been very similar with WMC being as reliable and user friendly as other non HTPC solutions.

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Found another confirmation of the time limit on uvdemystified dot com.


Here are the facts:

UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.
UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)
OK but what's being discussed is UV terms, not the terms of the actual streaming/download provider. When I buy a movie on Vudu, I get UV rights but I also have a contract with Vudu itself.

With Vudu, here is what the TOS says about purchased content:

"If you purchase Content, you may view it for as long as you (i) are capable of accessing the VUDU Service, and (ii) maintain an active VUDU Account."

So, if Vudu sticks around, my purchases are not going to expire. However, if Vudu folds there is a risk that another provider will charge a fee for streaming rights. Those hypotheticals are of little interest to me. I'm mostly buying into Vudu's service.

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Last edited by imagic; 06-15-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by sat.there View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by elario

Quote: Originally Posted by imagic

I do not break any of the laws you mentioned on a regular basis, mostly because I do not own a car, I do not commute, and where I live (center city Philly) pedestrians have the right of way. And I do not sing happy birthday in public. I turn my phone's WiFi off when I walk my dog, and whenever I leave home.

I even buy all my music.

Those examples were just a quick illustration. I could list literally hundreds of silly or obscure laws that 'honest law abiding' people break every day.

Suffice to say I guarantee you break some laws, we all do. So please come down off your high horse. If you won't rip discs for other reasons (cost, lack of technical knowledge etc.) that's fine.

No high horse. You can accept my reason at face value, I respect copyright law. I certainly have the technical knowledge. What does cost have to do with it?
You certainly sound like a shill for the digital streaming industry, blu-ray is superior for security and playability and video & audio than streaming ever will be.
If you like something and you talk about it, that makes you a shill? Surely you are a shill as well then. Streaming will never beat Blu-ray? It's only a question of when, not if.

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Last edited by imagic; 06-15-2014 at 07:34 AM.
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post #476 of 706 Old 06-15-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Found another confirmation of the time limit on uvdemystified dot com.


Here are the facts:

UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.
UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)
OK but what's being discussed is UV terms, not the terms of the actual streaming/download provider. When I buy a movie on Vudu, I get UV rights but I also have a contract with Vudu itself.

With Vudu, here is what the TOS says about purchased content:

"If you purchase Content, you may view it for as long as you (i) are capable of accessing the VUDU Service, and (ii) maintain an active VUDU Account."
it also says "VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion" which is legal speak for "you may have rights now, but you agree that we can take them away whenever we want and not have to inform you" its unlikely, but possible
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post #477 of 706 Old 06-15-2014, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Found another confirmation of the time limit on uvdemystified dot com.


Here are the facts:

UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.
UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)
OK but what's being discussed is UV terms, not the terms of the actual streaming/download provider. When I buy a movie on Vudu, I get UV rights but I also have a contract with Vudu itself.

With Vudu, here is what the TOS says about purchased content:

"If you purchase Content, you may view it for as long as you (i) are capable of accessing the VUDU Service, and (ii) maintain an active VUDU Account."
it also says "VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion" which is legal speak for "you may have rights now, but you agree that we can take them away whenever we want and not have to inform you" its unlikely, but possible
You will find stuff like that everywhere, this country was built on standard-issue legal disclaimers. Even the specs on AV gear carry the same basic warning—subject to change without notice. The license for every piece of software on your computer almost certainly says stuff like that. Anyhow, my point is that there is a difference between UV policy and the policy of the actual content provider.

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post #478 of 706 Old 06-15-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post

it also says "VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion" which is legal speak for "you may have rights now, but you agree that we can take them away whenever we want and not have to inform you" its unlikely, but possible
THIS is really something I learned when I started thinking more about UV after reading this thread.

Want to watch your UV content natively ... you can't. They don't "serve" it. Try to watch it on their website.

You have to ask someone else for permission to view your movies. UV knows you have the rights ... but to do anything with that you have to negotiate with a third party.

Terms of service constantly and quickly change and evolve. Users of current Game systems have to agree to new TOS with every FW update. They don't have to consent but if they want to continue to use the service ,... they do have to consent.

I really don't want my ID checked every time I watch a movie even if I quality. I don't want to ask someone permission to use my stuff.... It just seems not so good.

Still... So long as it's free and it works, ... fine.

What I take away from the whole discussion is I'll roll with the free part... no more actual money going to UV type services.

-Brian
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post #479 of 706 Old 06-15-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post
it also says "VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion" which is legal speak for "you may have rights now, but you agree that we can take them away whenever we want and not have to inform you" its unlikely, but possible
Funny how most do not see this. There is similar wording in the TOS for most non physical media sites/sources. I never have and have no intention of buying media that is not covered by the First Sale Doctrine except for some DRM free MP3 music.
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post #480 of 706 Old 06-15-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post
it also says "VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion" which is legal speak for "you may have rights now, but you agree that we can take them away whenever we want and not have to inform you" its unlikely, but possible
Funny how most do not see this. There is similar wording in the TOS for most non physical media sites/sources. I never have and have no intention of buying media that is not covered by the First Sale Doctrine except for some DRM free MP3 music.
That is a very reasonable position.

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