*Official* Tidal music streaming thread - Page 73 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2161 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by shaunconn View Post
Hi

Ah... ok next question then 🙂 what version of tidal do you have, I have 2.6.6 build 1768 and the App Store doesn’t allow me to do any updates?

Appreciate the help here!
My iPad is 2.7.0 build 1904
iPhone 6s 2.6.6 build 1768
iPad updated, phone had no update. Guessing maybe my phone is not new enough?

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post #2162 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 11:45 AM
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Hi - that’s odd; my iPhone is the same OS as yours running the same tidal but I can’t see MQA.... and mine is a later model (iPhone XS Max)....
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post #2163 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by shaunconn View Post
Hi - that’s odd; my iPhone is the same OS as yours running the same tidal but I can’t see MQA.... and mine is a later model (iPhone XS Max)....
Okay so maybe my theory of an older phone has nothing to do with it. That was just an assumption. I clearly see an “M” next to tracks/albums that are MQA on my iPad. I see nothing on my phone to indicate MQA🤦🏾

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post #2164 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunconn View Post
Hi

Ah... ok next question then 🙂 what version of tidal do you have, I have 2.6.6 build 1768 and the App Store doesn’t allow me to do any updates?

Appreciate the help here!
Tidal version 2.7.0 build 1904 on iPhone 7 and 11" iPad Pro - both updated yesterday. It may be a phased roll-out.
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post #2165 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 02:16 PM
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You are correct - it rolled out here onto my iPhone and iPad about 10 minutes ago! 2.7.0 build 1904. MQA now on both!

Many thanks
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post #2166 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunconn View Post
You are correct - it rolled out here onto my iPhone and iPad about 10 minutes ago! 2.7.0 build 1904. MQA now on both!

Many thanks
These forums are invaluable. Updating as I type this.👍🏾

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post #2167 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Not sure, but I think Qobuz may have more classical and jazz selections, and could be better-organized.
Hmm, definitely going to have to check out Qobuz then.

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post #2168 of 2190 Old 03-11-2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Not sure, but I think Qobuz may have more classical and jazz selections, and could be better-organized.
I think you may be correct. I have noticed that when it comes to HiRes/MQA both seem to have the albums available. I think that is based on the record labels according to something I believe I read in this thread.

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post #2169 of 2190 Old 03-24-2019, 12:38 PM
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I am a Tidal subscriber but am wondering if my setup allows me to get the value of the service vs. just going with something like Spotify. I don't necessarily need MQA.

My setup:
- Denon AVR-S710W (not compatible with Heos and not MQA)
- ATV 4K with Tidal App
- Nvidia Shield TV with Tidal App
-iPhone
- PC

Currently, I just play Tidal through the App on the ATV or Shield.

Questions:
1. What would be the best way to get the highest possible quality for my current set-up? Just keep doing what I am doing or is there a better approach?
2. I would consider a small investment (maybe $100 or less) in, say, a Chromecast Audio device or a Dragonfly DAC if either of these would allow me to better take advantage of Tidal. I saw these mentioned in the thread but wasn't clear if they would be good solutions with my setup.

Any guidance is appreciated.
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post #2170 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 04:27 AM
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Hey guys, I've been going over this thread and been searching all over the place. Could be I missed it if its been dealt with before (the thread is > 70 pages so please forgive me ).


I have the following setup:
Tidal Hifi with MQA/Master support
Jriver MediaCenter setup for UPnP hi-res renderer
Teac USB DAC (NT-503) with ASIO support

Android Tablet with Tidal and BubbleUPnP


From Tidal itself, I can play master quality albums but its either through the speaker or a connected bluetooth device.


When I use BubbleUPnP to browse Tidal, it only pulls the 16-bit FLAC regardless whether there's a Master version available.


I noticed when browsing albums, it sometimes shows several versions of a single album. I figured one would be the regular FLAC, another the MQA, but even if it is, FLAC is always played back.


I haven't purchased a license for BubbleUPnP yet because it is unclear what advantages it gives in my situation.


Can anyone share his/her experiences, and whether its possible to stream MQA in this setup?


Thanks in advance!
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post #2171 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by inflatablemouse View Post
Hey guys, I've been going over this thread and been searching all over the place. Could be I missed it if its been dealt with before (the thread is > 70 pages so please forgive me ).


I have the following setup:
Tidal Hifi with MQA/Master support
Jriver MediaCenter setup for UPnP hi-res renderer
Teac USB DAC (NT-503) with ASIO support

Android Tablet with Tidal and BubbleUPnP


From Tidal itself, I can play master quality albums but its either through the speaker or a connected bluetooth device.


When I use BubbleUPnP to browse Tidal, it only pulls the 16-bit FLAC regardless whether there's a Master version available.


I noticed when browsing albums, it sometimes shows several versions of a single album. I figured one would be the regular FLAC, another the MQA, but even if it is, FLAC is always played back.


I haven't purchased a license for BubbleUPnP yet because it is unclear what advantages it gives in my situation.


Can anyone share his/her experiences, and whether its possible to stream MQA in this setup?


Thanks in advance!
I thought, but could easily be wrong as I find the Tidal ecosystem full of exclusions and gotchas, but its my understanding that MQA playback is only available via the desktop app. Confusing is that Android and iPhone MQA apps have been released but playback there is limited to CD-quality. Finally, adding more confusion to the equation, its also my understanding that TRUE MQA playback is only possible with MQA decoding at the DAC level.

So, maybe somehow that helps in your situation. Maybe not. But I gave it a shot.

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post #2172 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post
I thought, but could easily be wrong as I find the Tidal ecosystem full of exclusions and gotchas, but its my understanding that MQA playback is only available via the desktop app. Confusing is that Android and iPhone MQA apps have been released but playback there is limited to CD-quality. Finally, adding more confusion to the equation, its also my understanding that TRUE MQA playback is only possible with MQA decoding at the DAC level.

So, maybe somehow that helps in your situation. Maybe not. But I gave it a shot.

You may be right, but its hard to find some proper information on this.


How about Qobus? Would that work properly in this setup?
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post #2173 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by inflatablemouse View Post
You may be right, but its hard to find some proper information on this.


How about Qobus? Would that work properly in this setup?

Let's quote myself :P


I think I got bit-perfect streaming working from Android with Qobuz and BubbleUPnP to JRiver Media Center as renderer and output to Teac USB DAC/ASIO.


In Bubble I disabled volume and Ffmpeg conversion. DAC display now shows the native track resolution. Played a couple of albums and battery drain isn't too bad and its been stable (no cutouts, crashes).



Pretty neat!


Qobuz actually has an edge on Tidal in that it supports uPnP from their Windows App, and WASAPI exclusive mode and ASIO, natively. This gives me good hope that their mobile app might come to support UPnP as well some day. When I looked into Qobuz a few months ago, they were missing like a quarter to a third of my music collection. This time around, its only a few album. They've been busy.
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post #2174 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatablemouse View Post
You may be right, but its hard to find some proper information on this.


How about Qobus? Would that work properly in this setup?
So, I'll pile on as well... I've also been trying to sort out the best way to stream Hi res from Tidal (or QoBuz) to each of 2 systems I use for music... my HT system is using a Marantz AV7703 and the HEOS app which streams Tidal (but not QoBuz)... this is 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality), but not Hi Res... My 2nd system is an older Marantz SR7009 which doesn't have HEOS, so I currently connect via Bluetooth using the Tidal app from a MacBook Pro. This still sounds good, but I'm pretty sure the bluetooth stream is only mp3 quality (from what I've read)...

Last night I connected an HDMI cable directly from the MacBook Pro to the Aux1 input on my AV7703 and was able to run Tidal through my Preamp that way... but, how do I determine what quality it was actually playing at? I'm guessing it's not hi-res...

At this point, I'm not sure if investing in Bluesound Node 2i's is the best path (expensive)... or if I should use something like Plex w/ a UPnP server to stream...

Thoughts?

PS: If anyone has links to documentation or threads that would help explain this process, it would be very helpful as well!

Thanks in advance!

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post #2175 of 2190 Old 03-26-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by darrob104 View Post
So, I'll pile on as well... I've also been trying to sort out the best way to stream Hi res from Tidal (or QoBuz) to each of 2 systems I use for music... my HT system is using a Marantz AV7703 and the HEOS app which streams Tidal (but not QoBuz)... this is 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality), but not Hi Res... My 2nd system is an older Marantz SR7009 which doesn't have HEOS, so I currently connect via Bluetooth using the Tidal app from a MacBook Pro. This still sounds good, but I'm pretty sure the bluetooth stream is only mp3 quality (from what I've read)...

Last night I connected an HDMI cable directly from the MacBook Pro to the Aux1 input on my AV7703 and was able to run Tidal through my Preamp that way... but, how do I determine what quality it was actually playing at? I'm guessing it's not hi-res...

At this point, I'm not sure if investing in Bluesound Node 2i's is the best path (expensive)... or if I should use something like Plex w/ a UPnP server to stream...

Thoughts?

PS: If anyone has links to documentation or threads that would help explain this process, it would be very helpful as well!

Thanks in advance!
Dragonfly would be an option if you’re going to use your Mac. Also consider looking for an older Node. The older Bluesound nodes do MQA unfolding the same as the newer versions.
Here’s a link to the MQA page. https://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/how-it-works
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post #2176 of 2190 Old 03-27-2019, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrob104 View Post

Last night I connected an HDMI cable directly from the MacBook Pro to the Aux1 input on my AV7703 and was able to run Tidal through my Preamp that way... but, how do I determine what quality it was actually playing at? I'm guessing it's not hi-res...

I have a Mac Mini connected via HDMI to a Yamaha AVR. As indicated in the AVR’s information screen, MQA plays at 96kHz or 88.2kHz depending on the recording. It’s not the full MQA unfold, but it is hi-res.
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post #2177 of 2190 Old 03-27-2019, 05:50 AM
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I have a Mac Mini connected via HDMI to a Yamaha AVR. As indicated in the AVR’s information screen, MQA plays at 96kHz or 88.2kHz depending on the recording. It’s not the full MQA unfold, but it is hi-res.
What's your opinion of the sound? Is the upgraded Tidal subscription worth it for your environment?

I am pursing this issue (Tidal via Marantz/HEOS/MQA) in the the Marantz AVR thread separately and will summarize what I find out. To me, this whole Tidal/subscription levels/ desktop vs smartphone/MQA issue is very confusing.

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post #2178 of 2190 Old 03-27-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jpco View Post
I have a Mac Mini connected via HDMI to a Yamaha AVR. As indicated in the AVR’s information screen, MQA plays at 96kHz or 88.2kHz depending on the recording. It’s not the full MQA unfold, but it is hi-res.
Interesting... my Marantz shows audio resolution when using hi-res sources through my Oppo-203, but doesn't show anything coming from the MacBook through the AUX 1 HDMI port on the front panel... When I get the chance, I'll test using one of the HDMI ports on the back and see if that makes any difference... I suppose it could also be my MacBook Pro... it's an older model (mid 2014), so maybe doesn't support the hi-res output via the HDMI??? I've searched for the answer to that question, but haven't found anything that specifically tells me...

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post #2179 of 2190 Old 03-27-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by darrob104 View Post
I've also been trying to sort out the best way to stream Hi res from Tidal (or QoBuz) to each of 2 systems I use for music... my HT system is using a Marantz AV7703 and the HEOS app which streams Tidal (but not QoBuz)... this is 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality), but not Hi Res... My 2nd system is an older Marantz SR7009 which doesn't have HEOS
It appears that Marantz/Denon no longer bother to certify the newer HEOS devices for DLNA (hence the reason it's not mentioned in their specs), but still provide them with a built-in industry standard UPnP/DLNA renderer like the older HEOS & non-HEOS network streaming devices.


This means you should be able to get the HEOS supporting Marantz AV7703 to stream Qobuz hi-res audio file tracks (up to the maximum 24/192kHz - assuming you've connected with a hi-res supporting account), using a Qobuz supporting UPnP/DLNA controller app, such as BubbleUPnP (Android only, unlicensed version is free) and mconnect Player (iOS & Android, free Lite version available).


Of course, the same can also be said for your officially DLNA 1.5 certified Marantz SR7009!


BTW, both the BubbleUPnP and mconnect Player apps also support TIDAL. The BubbleUPnP app is restricted to 16/44.1kHz CD res (like the HEOS app), as it isn't MQA licensed. However, the mConnect Player app is licensed for MQA and can provide hi-res MQA file tracks at their standard source/distribution (ie, undecoded) resolution of 24/44.1 kHz or 24/48kHz (so would require the DAC to support MQA decoding for any MQA 'unfolding').
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post #2180 of 2190 Old 03-27-2019, 07:00 PM
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As far as I know, the BubbleUPnP app on Android based phones can now fully unfold MQA. I haven't tried it with my Android phone (Google Pixel) or Android tablet yet though.

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post #2181 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 03:37 AM
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As far as I know, the BubbleUPnP app on Android based phones can now fully unfold MQA.
No it can't - you're in danger of spreading a bit of misinformation here, Ken. The BubbleUPnP Android app can't even connect to the TIDAL online server with official 'MQA permission' in order for the TIDAL online server to provide the proper MQA file tracks for streaming in the first place, let alone somehow fully 'unfold' them!


There's never been mention of MQA support in any of the BubbleUPnP app's version updates to date, not even in the unofficial Beta versions. Here's the latest statement (January 22nd, this year) on the matter from the BubbleUPnP app's developer, bubbleguuum, taken from its official web pages:
Quote:
MQA is currently not supported. Maybe it will be in the future but no promise. It requires special agreement with TIDAL.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...2#post78733302




Would be interested to know why you thought so, especially if it was info you read somewhere.

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post #2182 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 07:18 AM
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No it can't - you're in danger of spreading a bit of misinformation here, Ken. The BubbleUPnP Android app can't even connect to the TIDAL online server with official 'MQA permission' in order for the TIDAL online server to provide the proper MQA file tracks for streaming in the first place, let alone somehow fully 'unfold' them!


There's never been mention of MQA support in any of the BubbleUPnP app's version updates to date, not even in the unofficial Beta versions. Here's the latest statement (January 22nd, this year) on the matter from the BubbleUPnP app's developer, bubbleguuum, taken from its official web pages:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...2#post78733302




Would be interested to know why you thought so, especially if it was info you read somewhere.

I stand corrected. It's the Tidal app itself on Android phones that works, according to Tidal.

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post #2183 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 07:31 AM
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I stand corrected. It's the Tidal app itself on Android phones that works, according to Tidal.
So does the Tidal app on Android (and iPhone) support unfolding MQA?

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post #2184 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 07:45 AM
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USB Audio Player Pro has Tidal intergration along with MQA support for Android.

I asked the question regarding mqa support on Android devices a while back when Tidal opened the door to MQA support for Android Devices. I know some LG phones with ess dacs support MQA, but I do not know the process regarding other devices.

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post #2185 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post
So does the Tidal app on Android (and iPhone) support unfolding MQA?
I remember reading somewhere that it only does the 1st unfold. On my iPhone I sponsor see an “M” next to the MQA tracks/albums.

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post #2186 of 2190 Old 03-28-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post
I remember reading somewhere that it only does the 1st unfold.
MQA Limited have only approved software decoding of MQA to the MQA Core signal, aka 'first unfold'. MQA Renderering, aka 'further unfolding', can currently only be done in hardware by the DACs that support it.


This would seem to make sense, since according to MQA limited, the purpose of the MQA Renderer stage is to provide an audio signal to match the specific MQA supporting DAC being used - so only allow upsampling (aka,'unfolding') up to the DAC's maximum sample rate before finally also applying a 'special MQA filter' specifically tailored for that DAC.


It would be a bit tricky to do this in software, as the application would not only have to know which DAC it's outputting to, but also fully know its capabilities!


Of course this also means that Full MQA decoding, ie, MQA decoding to the MQA Core signal followed by MQA Rendering in the same device can only be done in hardware by the DACs that support it.

Last edited by Cebolla; 03-28-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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post #2187 of 2190 Old 04-15-2019, 10:41 AM
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It appears that Marantz/Denon no longer bother to certify the newer HEOS devices for DLNA (hence the reason it's not mentioned in their specs), but still provide them with a built-in industry standard UPnP/DLNA renderer like the older HEOS & non-HEOS network streaming devices.


This means you should be able to get the HEOS supporting Marantz AV7703 to stream Qobuz hi-res audio file tracks (up to the maximum 24/192kHz - assuming you've connected with a hi-res supporting account), using a Qobuz supporting UPnP/DLNA controller app, such as BubbleUPnP (Android only, unlicensed version is free) and mconnect Player (iOS & Android, free Lite version available).


Of course, the same can also be said for your officially DLNA 1.5 certified Marantz SR7009!


BTW, both the BubbleUPnP and mconnect Player apps also support TIDAL. The BubbleUPnP app is restricted to 16/44.1kHz CD res (like the HEOS app), as it isn't MQA licensed. However, the mConnect Player app is licensed for MQA and can provide hi-res MQA file tracks at their standard source/distribution (ie, undecoded) resolution of 24/44.1 kHz or 24/48kHz (so would require the DAC to support MQA decoding for any MQA 'unfolding').
I bought a Marantz digital music source player (ND8006) in order to play Tidal at higher quality, since HEOS supports it. I recently tried out Qobuz, and actually like that better. Unfortunately, Marantz has no plans to integrate Quboz into their products (straight from their CSR team). I've tried using mConnect, but it either doesn't recognize it as a upnp player, or when it does 1 out of 20 times, eventually crashes the app. When I open mConnect again, it's back to the 1 in 20 chance it finds it. I can't figure out why.
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post #2188 of 2190 Old 04-16-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sz1000 View Post
I bought a Marantz digital music source player (ND8006) in order to play Tidal at higher quality, since HEOS supports it. I recently tried out Qobuz, and actually like that better. Unfortunately, Marantz has no plans to integrate Quboz into their products (straight from their CSR team). I've tried using mConnect, but it either doesn't recognize it as a upnp player, or when it does 1 out of 20 times, eventually crashes the app. When I open mConnect again, it's back to the 1 in 20 chance it finds it. I can't figure out why.
It's unlikely to be a problem with the mconnect Player app nor the Marantz ND8006 operating as a UPnP/DLNA streamer. In fact, Qobuz themselves have published an article recommending the Marantz ND8006 be used as a UPnP/DLNA streamer with the mconnect Player app:
https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/info/Hi-...xclusive180332


Sounds instead to me like your network management device, eg your router, has a problem with UPnP device discovery, which uses IGMP multicast. A classic situation is the case of problem wireless routers not able to properly pass IGMP multicast packets between the wired & wireless portions of the network, resulting in WiFi connected UPnP devices having problems finding wired connected UPnP devices and vice versa.


What make & model of router are you using?

Last edited by Cebolla; 04-16-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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post #2189 of 2190 Old 04-16-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sz1000 View Post
I bought a Marantz digital music source player (ND8006) in order to play Tidal at higher quality, since HEOS supports it. I recently tried out Qobuz, and actually like that better. Unfortunately, Marantz has no plans to integrate Quboz into their products (straight from their CSR team). I've tried using mConnect, but it either doesn't recognize it as a upnp player, or when it does 1 out of 20 times, eventually crashes the app. When I open mConnect again, it's back to the 1 in 20 chance it finds it. I can't figure out why.
It's unlikely to be a problem with the mconnect Player app nor the Marantz ND8006 operating as a UPnP/DLNA streamer. In fact, Qobuz themselves have published an article recommending the Marantz ND8006 be used as a UPnP/DLNA streamer with the mconnect Player app:
https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/info/Hi-...xclusive180332


Sounds instead to me like your network management device, eg your router, has a problem with UPnP device discovery, which uses IGMP multicast. A classic situation is the case of problem wireless routers not able to properly pass IGMP multicast packets between the wired & wireless portions of the network, resulting in WiFi connected UPnP devices having problems finding wired connected UPnP devices and vice versa.


What make & model of router are you using?
Netgear Orbi with two total satellites. I think I have the ND8006 hard wired (I'll check when I get home), so that could be the case. Can that be fixed in the router settings, or better to just use wifi on the Marantz?
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post #2190 of 2190 Old 05-01-2019, 09:23 AM
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One month into my two month Tidal Hifi trial. So far so good, except that listening on my Tidal Android app frequently results in random network error disconnects. Anyone have any suggestions?

MQA sounds great on my Dragonfly Black (for headphone use connected to my Windows 10 laptop, and Android app in the car when it doesn't disconnect from the mobile network). Listening on my home theater setup via the original Bluesound Node is also excellent.
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