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post #241 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post
Something I've noticed about Sling TV. I use it on both a Roku 3 and Amazon Fire TV, both over Ethernet with 60Mbps service. I can get a 4.7Mbps stream for ESPN on the Roku. I cannot get this stream on my Fire TV. Also, ESPN has lots of studder/dropped frames for ESPN, on the Fire TV. Maybe more channels, but its easy to spot watching sports. Its painfully obvious watching the ticker. Its butter smooth on the Roku.
Yeah, this guy made a video complaining about that and how he noticed it as well. (He did complain in the video about pay TV in general, commercials, digital on screen graphics/bugs that the networks have). He also mentioned in the comments section about how ESPN was the only channel(s) that he could obtain the 4.7 Mbps streams with the higher framerate from. He was using a Roku btw.
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followup on the frame rate- I found a way to get it to display the bandwidth it's getting, and the ESPN channels show 4.7 mb/s at the full framerate. When the frame rate on those channels drops, it goes to 3.7 or lower. NONE of the other channels went above 3.7, which explains why those wouldn't display at the full frame rate. The Disney Channels and ABC Family seem to be limited to 2.8 mb/s. (My internet service says it can handle up to about 22 mb/s, and running the speed test on Vudu shows it can handle its maximum bitrate of 9 mb/s, though all video-based material I've seen on that has not been at the full frame rate. The bitrate of a good-quality DVD is about 7 in comparison with a maximum of 10, Blu-Rays are much higher, with an average of 30 and maximum of 40 though a few titles have been shown to go a bit above that.)
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post #242 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 02:52 PM
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How are you telling what stream you are getting (4.7)?

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post #243 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 02:55 PM
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How are you telling what stream you are getting (4.7)?
I don't have the service I was just mentioned what the guy said from the YouTube video, he may have found out from the debug info you can enable on Roku to display the bitrates on screen OR maybe you press the (*) option button on the Roku remote. Not sure
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post #244 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 03:50 PM
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I found a way to get it to display the bandwidth it's getting, and the ESPN channels show 4.7 mb/s at the full framerate.
The Disney Channels and ABC Family seem to be limited to 2.8 mb/s
Most likely the muddy SD Disney streams. As I said the ATV3 is the one and only device that can play and maintain the Watch Disney channels in HD and is the only reason why I still keep it connected. All my other devices including the PC & Fire TV it looks like total mud. The Fire TV Watch Disney channels apps were even just updated but after I deleted them as they still only play in SD and you can see major macroblocking in the background and my eyes start to bother me. Then I think it does not look bad but then I switch it over to the ATV3 and wow my eyes feel better it is so much sharper. However the Watch ESPN app on the Fire TV plays in HD and looks great.

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post #245 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
How are you telling what stream you are getting (4.7)?
Hit Options - Settings - Connection
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post #246 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 08:17 PM
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Looks like AMC and IFC are on Sling now, will check em out after Conan is over.

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post #247 of 649 Old 03-04-2015, 11:43 PM
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Looks like AMC and IFC are on Sling now, will check em out after Conan is over.
Ok there is no ability to go back to watch previous shows like some of the other channels, but picture quality is good for AMC and IFC. And as always IFC is not censored for language.
All and all a pretty good start.
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Last edited by tenthplanet; 03-04-2015 at 11:45 PM. Reason: repeated words accidentally
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post #248 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 02:39 AM
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Can anyone confirm if the Universal Sports channel is in HD?

TIA.

Last edited by colnago; 03-05-2015 at 02:46 AM.
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post #249 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 05:05 AM
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Ok there is no ability to go back to watch previous shows like some of the other channels, but picture quality is good for AMC and IFC. And as always IFC is not censored for language.
All and all a pretty good start.

Is there a good on demand list for Sling tv yet? Just curious as to what channels offer it.

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post #250 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by colnago View Post
Can anyone confirm if the Universal Sports channel is in HD?

TIA.
It's in HD. I'm watching some ski thing now. Definitely widescreen and you can see enough definition in the snow, for example, to tell it's not SD.
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post #251 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 09:57 AM
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It's in HD. I'm watching some ski thing now. Definitely widescreen and you can see enough definition in the snow, for example, to tell it's not SD.

Good lookin' out! Thanks.

Got to love how Dish Network has multiple iterations of the same channels, but still carrying only the SD version of others.

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post #252 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 02:21 PM
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I still don't get the complaints on quality being bad. People must have some very poor internet connections or connections to their devices from the router. Quality on a measly 15meg line with others in the house doing stuff is always top notch. comparable to OTA. No issues with buffering or drops. I do get occasional feed hiccups, but I can't say that I didn't experience the same type of thing with cable or satellite also at times.
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post #253 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SatinKzo View Post
I still don't get the complaints on quality being bad. People must have some very poor internet connections or connections to their devices from the router. Quality on a measly 15meg line with others in the house doing stuff is always top notch. comparable to OTA. No issues with buffering or drops. I do get occasional feed hiccups, but I can't say that I didn't experience the same type of thing with cable or satellite also at times.
I mean no offense, here, but you must not have a very discerning eye. It's nowhere near as good as OTA or even Netflix or Amazon. How could it be? It's 720p and maxes out at 3.5Mbps and 4.5Mbps for ESPN only.


ESPN is solid, I wish all channels had the same bandwidth/stream.
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post #254 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 02:58 PM
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You do realize that Netflix and Amazon HD both stream at 3.5-4mbps easily. 5mbps is easily on the top end of both to get HD 720p

Only the super HD at 7-10mpbs and 4k need the excessive bandwidth

As for my eyes. Wel I am actually blind so take what I say with a grain of salt

Netflix changed to the EyeIO protocol a year or so ago and can easily stream high quality at less than 5mbps http://eyeio.com/

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post #255 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 03:13 PM
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Yeah, I'm aware what Amazon and Netflix stream at. OTA above that, too.


I can clearly tell Sling isn't as good, though. I don't even need to know specifics to come to that conclusion. . I probably have a more discerning eye than many.
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post #256 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post
Yeah, I'm aware what Amazon and Netflix stream at. OTA above that, too.


I can clearly tell Sling isn't as good, though. I don't even need to know specifics to come to that conclusion. . I probably have a more discerning eye than many.
That's Probably it. Your eyes are superior to mine as I said I'm actually blind.

Objective Specifics vs subjective analysis is always worthwhile.

Also OTA has to stream above that since it uses much less efficient compression

And no where did I say ANYWHERE that sling was superior but at 720p across the board and all factors equal the amount of people claiming its total crap and the worst quality since ditto machine back in the day is ridiculous.
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post #257 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 03:49 PM
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Haha. I got ya. No, its far from unwatchable. I hope it improves, though. From what I've read online, it was announced as being 1080p with 5.1. Hopefully, we get that soon, with decent bandwidth or improved delivery techniques/encodes.
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post #258 of 649 Old 03-05-2015, 05:21 PM
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Haha. I got ya. No, its far from unwatchable. I hope it improves, though. From what I've read online, it was announced as being 1080p with 5.1. Hopefully, we get that soon, with decent bandwidth or improved delivery techniques/encodes.
Yes, they grossly overstated their quality prior to launch. Especially considering none of their source material was 1080p to begin with. I am sure they will improve when their sources improve. Disney does odd stuff and so does ESPN with their programs and some of the stuff they have on other channels is only SD to begin with so that turd can only be polished so much.

Aside from all this, the subscriber growth is impressive over 100k so far and the ultimate convenience of being able to change as one wishes is nice. My kids will outgrow disney, I only watch ESPN during football season. No need to pay for all this when I don't need it etc.
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post #259 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 04:57 AM
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I have no problem with the quality...could it be better...sure....but you'll always have people saying that no matter what the source. For $20 its a deal for me when combined with the near 50 channels I get from free OTA, this is a great addon for OTA users.
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post #260 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 04:59 AM
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out of curiosity, how those that get good quality streaming and those that don't potentially looked into where your streams are coming from?
I'm guessing the streams aren't all coming from the same source. Is it possible that some source areas aren't over utilized vs other areas?
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post #261 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post
out of curiosity, how those that get good quality streaming and those that don't potentially looked into where your streams are coming from?
I'm guessing the streams aren't all coming from the same source. Is it possible that some source areas aren't over utilized vs other areas?

"source areas" ?


It would be nice if people would mention what they are using to get Sling, PC, Roku, android ect. especially when your claiming it's looking and working as good as OTA...
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post #262 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 05:25 AM
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out of curiosity, how those that get good quality streaming and those that don't potentially looked into where your streams are coming from?
I'm guessing the streams aren't all coming from the same source. Is it possible that some source areas aren't over utilized vs other areas?
Ah, Very good point. While DNS at the core isn't going to affect much, the CDN's are setup to provide you the content from the closest servers to your area. Like Netflix is location aware based on your DNS, I've found services like these (sling, amazon, netflix etc) work best with ISP DNS settings that locate you in a geographic region where as google, level 3, OpenDNS generally misrepresent your closest servers. So the CDN's of these services may not be the most efficient one for you if using a distant DNS from a third party. Of course if the CDN's are fully using AnyCast, it negates the third party DNS effect.

I know when I used GRC's DNS Benchmark tool, I was surprised at the results and how googles DNS was negatively affecting me in many ways compared to ISP DNS and others.

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"source areas" ?


It would be nice if people would mention what they are using to get Sling, PC, Roku, android ect. especially when your claiming it's looking and working as good as OTA...
I'm watching on TV (Roku Hisense at work 40inch, 65 inch 4k at home).
Used the following
Roku Sling App
Fire TV app
PC (surface 3 pro connected to TV).

All connections are wireless to router. ISP is Comcast in both locations. Both are business tier HSI accounts.
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post #263 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 05:30 AM
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"source areas" ?


It would be nice if people would mention what they are using to get Sling, PC, Roku, android ect. especially when your claiming it's looking and working as good as OTA...
Sorry bad term. I meant the actual servers people connect to. This would include the area.
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post #264 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SatinKzo View Post
Ah, Very good point. While DNS at the core isn't going to affect much, the CDN's are setup to provide you the content from the closest servers to your area. Like Netflix is location aware based on your DNS, I've found services like these (sling, amazon, netflix etc) work best with ISP DNS settings that locate you in a geographic region where as google, level 3, OpenDNS generally misrepresent your closest servers. So the CDN's of these services may not be the most efficient one for you if using a distant DNS from a third party. Of course if the CDN's are fully using AnyCast, it negates the third party DNS effect.
Yup so it might be nice to see if people post roughly where they are located and where is the location of the CDN they are connecting to.
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post #265 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 06:33 AM
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While I think my Sling (Roku 3) looks fine it is definitely not as good as OTA or even Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Vudu are for me.
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post #266 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 06:41 AM
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While I think my Sling (Roku 3) looks fine it is definitely not as good as OTA or even Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Vudu are for me.
I doubt any content will beat the quality OTA, the streams are generally compressed very little...Netflix, Amazon, etc are better comparisons.
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post #267 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wvvolfan View Post
Yeah, this guy made a video complaining about that and how he noticed it as well. (He did complain in the video about pay TV in general, commercials, digital on screen graphics/bugs that the networks have). He also mentioned in the comments section about how ESPN was the only channel(s) that he could obtain the 4.7 Mbps streams with the higher framerate from. He was using a Roku btw.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-jWf7NWKJI
Sadly I would have to agree with a lot of the complaints that guy had in his video. Paying to watch commercials....even worse not being able to FF thru them. The annoying channel logos all over the place. All fundamental reasons why I hate the cable TV model we have been stuck with for decades. Sling seems like more of the same just under the illusion of "not being cable".
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post #268 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 07:15 AM
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The colors are over saturated and lots of black crush, at least from what I've been watching on Travel channel its quite distracting. Netflix quality has never bothered me. On Windows 50mb Comcast on gigabit Ethernet.
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post #269 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 07:27 AM
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The colors are over saturated and lots of black crush, at least from what I've been watching on Travel channel its quite distracting. Netflix quality has never bothered me. On Windows 50mb Comcast on gigabit Ethernet.
See, that's interesting as I don't see the crushing and colors are good for me. I do take into account source material since some of the channels only using considerably lower quality to start with and no amount of processing will make it look better. Same goes for all the content providers though.

Espn is probably the only channel group that is noticeable if there is a crawler at the bottom (blurred or jumpy to me). All fast motion tends to screen door (but so does CBS OTA).

Interestingly, I'm curious what OTA situation is for everyone. All my OTA network stations have 2 additional sub-channels with 1 running at 720p at least and while I think the PQ is good, that amount of info in a 19mbps stream has to lead to degradation.
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post #270 of 649 Old 03-06-2015, 07:37 AM
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See, that's interesting as I don't see the crushing and colors are good for me. I do take into account source material since some of the channels only using considerably lower quality to start with and no amount of processing will make it look better. Same goes for all the content providers though.

Espn is probably the only channel group that is noticeable if there is a crawler at the bottom (blurred or jumpy to me). All fast motion tends to screen door (but so does CBS OTA).

Interestingly, I'm curious what OTA situation is for everyone. All my OTA network stations have 2 additional sub-channels with 1 running at 720p at least and while I think the PQ is good, that amount of info in a 19mbps stream has to lead to degradation.

I am in Oviedo florida....outside Orlando. All the four main network channels ...a few have subchannels. But the main channels for me on a cheapo roof antenna look really really good. Watching live or "semi live" stuff like Fallon, etc really show what HDTV can look like. Stuff on Sling doesn't even come close. Watching something like Conan on TBS and flipping to a OTA broadcast of Fallon is night and day. ESPN comes the closest but it does tend to fluctuate a lot which at times is worse than if it were just lower all the time.
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