NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box) - Page 356 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10651 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 02:54 PM
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YeAh mrmc sounds great I just hate to give them money after stealing others work. I know there are 2 sides but how is this possibly theirs to close off?

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post #10652 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 08:37 PM
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Question for you guys regarding my Shield.



I purchased an Apple TV last weekend and noticed that the apps have significantly worse audio quality and dynamic range than my Xbox One X, its very significant. I returned it on friday and picked up a Shield and tested it all weekend. This also fails miserably in comparison to the streaming sound quality of the Xbox One X. It was easy to setup, but it is basically missing the full range sound of the XBox.



At this point I have tried all the streaming products and nothing can compete with the streaming on the Xbox. Is there a reason? More compression? I would say its like 8db less than without the same LFE presence.



Is there any secret settings to let these things open up the audio?



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post #10653 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Question for you guys regarding my Shield.



I purchased an Apple TV last weekend and noticed that the apps have significantly worse audio quality and dynamic range than my Xbox One X, its very significant. I returned it on friday and picked up a Shield and tested it all weekend. This also fails miserably in comparison to the streaming sound quality of the Xbox One X. It was easy to setup, but it is basically missing the full range sound of the XBox.



At this point I have tried all the streaming products and nothing can compete with the streaming on the Xbox. Is there a reason? More compression? I would say its like 8db less than without the same LFE presence.



Is there any secret settings to let these things open up the audio?



Greg
Are you using an AVR. Most people would use bitstreaming. When you bit bitstream the device just does pass through. Are you talking about 2 channel PCM?
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post #10654 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
Are you using an AVR. Most people would use bitstreaming. When you bit bitstream the device just does pass through. Are you talking about 2 channel PCM?

I am using an AVR. I went through all the settings and messed with it as much as I could. It's as if all the apps on the shield are neutered compared the Xbox.



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post #10655 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I am using an AVR. I went through all the settings and messed with it as much as I could. It's as if all the apps on the shield are neutered compared the Xbox.



Greg
Again, you send a Dolby Digital bitstream to the AVR and the AVR does the decode. What shows up on the receiver's display. What are you trying to do?
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post #10656 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
Again, you send a Dolby Digital bitstream to the AVR and the AVR does the decode. What shows up on the receiver's display. What are you trying to do?

It will display whatever the movie is using, i.e. Vudu will display atmos if it is in Atmos, netflix displays some weird dolby digital + thing. Maybe the apps on the shield use some kind of compression to speed up load times. It is very noticeable.



If anyone has an Xbox One X and a shield, test with the same content by flipping inputs. It is very dramatic.


Greg

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post #10657 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
It will display whatever the movie is using, i.e. Vudu will display atmos if it is in Atmos, netflix displays some weird dolby digital + thing. Maybe the apps on the shield use some kind of compression to speed up load times. It is very noticeable.



If anyone has an Xbox One X and a shield, test with the same content by flipping inputs. It is very dramatic.


Greg
I can test it more in a week when I'm back home but I don't remember any difference.

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post #10658 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
It will display whatever the movie is using, i.e. Vudu will display atmos if it is in Atmos, netflix displays some weird dolby digital + thing. Maybe the apps on the shield use some kind of compression to speed up load times. It is very noticeable.



If anyone has an Xbox One X and a shield, test with the same content by flipping inputs. It is very dramatic.


Greg
If you are bitstreaming, which it sounds like you are, it’s likely some setting difference on the inputs on the AVR. Or your Xbox is doing something to the audio. I know they were rolling out atmos upmixing. Do you have that? Otherwise when bitstreaming the device playing the content does not touch the audio at all. The Shield is not compressing the sound.

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post #10659 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
If you are bitstreaming, which it sounds like you are, it’s likely some setting difference on the inputs on the AVR. Or your Xbox is doing something to the audio. I know they were rolling out atmos upmixing. Do you have that? Otherwise when bitstreaming the device playing the content does not touch the audio at all. The Shield is not compressing the sound.

I checked the inputs, its a brand new AVR, did the same thing with the last AVR but it was the same brand. I have no idea why the Xbox One X sounds better. The LFE is double, almost as good as a disc in the Oppo 205.



I don't see any option to select bitstream or PCM in the Shield settings.



The audio is so quiet its hard to hear the dialogue, switch over to xbox one X and its loud and clear. I love the interface, but without the audio it isn't viable. Was this not meant to be used in a full atmos theater?



Greg

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post #10660 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I checked the inputs, its a brand new AVR, did the same thing with the last AVR but it was the same brand. I have no idea why the Xbox One X sounds better. The LFE is double, almost as good as a disc in the Oppo 205.



I don't see any option to select bitstream or PCM in the Shield settings.



The audio is so quiet its hard to hear the dialogue, switch over to xbox one X and its loud and clear. I love the interface, but without the audio it isn't viable. Was this not meant to be used in a full atmos theater?



Greg
There's something messed up in your setup... I have every streamer (ps4 though, not xbox), and gee shield beats all of them on audio quality hands down - which is odd, since i bitstream/ passthrough everywhere i can (looking at you ATV!).

2 things to check...

1) on the shield, make sure you've set the audio volume setting to external (or try swiping up on the middle stripe on the remote), you could have the shields volume down very low.

2) on my avr, I can set the gain for each hdmi input, check to see if yours is set lower than the xbox. I have my shield set to +2db

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post #10661 of 12428 Old 06-30-2019, 10:55 PM
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There's something messed up in your setup... I have every streamer (ps4 though, not xbox), and gee shield beats all of them on audio quality hands down - which is odd, since i bitstream/ passthrough everywhere i can (looking at you ATV!).

2 things to check...

1) on the shield, make sure you've set the audio volume setting to external (or try swiping up on the middle stripe on the remote), you could have the shields volume down very low.

2) on my avr, I can set the gain for each hdmi input, check to see if yours is set lower than the xbox. I have my shield set to +2db

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1)already did that.
2)checked they are both at 0. No added or subtracted DB


Maybe the Xbox is doing something, it's a shame. Makes it hard to use something else. The Xbox plays louder than my PS4 also. Something about the Apps on the Xbox, they are all louder with the exception of YouTube.


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post #10662 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
It will display whatever the movie is using, i.e. Vudu will display atmos if it is in Atmos, netflix displays some weird dolby digital + thing. Maybe the apps on the shield use some kind of compression to speed up load times. It is very noticeable.

If anyone has an Xbox One X and a shield, test with the same content by flipping inputs. It is very dramatic.

Greg
I have an Xbox and a Shield and I would be happy to test. Any specific titles I should use? I don't like that the Xbox will upconvert everything to Atmos (if you have the Atmos setting on) even when it doesn't have Atmos at the source. I have the Xbox connected directly to TV because of VRR and the Shield is connected to AVR so not sure if this would be Apples to Apples test?

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post #10663 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
1)already did that.
2)checked they are both at 0. No added or subtracted DB


Maybe the Xbox is doing something, it's a shame. Makes it hard to use something else. The Xbox plays louder than my PS4 also. Something about the Apps on the Xbox, they are all louder with the exception of YouTube.


Greg
Check the Audyssey settings for each input and make sure they are the same. Specially dynamic eq and dynamic volume. I would start with dynamic eq on and dynamic volume off.
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post #10664 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Question for you guys regarding my Shield.



I purchased an Apple TV last weekend and noticed that the apps have significantly worse audio quality and dynamic range than my Xbox One X, its very significant. I returned it on friday and picked up a Shield and tested it all weekend. This also fails miserably in comparison to the streaming sound quality of the Xbox One X. It was easy to setup, but it is basically missing the full range sound of the XBox.



At this point I have tried all the streaming products and nothing can compete with the streaming on the Xbox. Is there a reason? More compression? I would say its like 8db less than without the same LFE presence.



Is there any secret settings to let these things open up the audio?



Greg
As others have noted, this sounds like an issue with your settings. I have an ATV 4k, FireTV Stick 4k, and a Shield and don't experience the issue you describe at all. This may help -

https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...ecs-settings-/

Mark
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post #10665 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 06:16 AM
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I use mrmc which integrates with plex.



It will switch framerate and resolutions 2160p,1080p,720p (although most tv's dont support 720p24 only 50/60 is in the hdmi spec). There is a bug where you have to use 4:2:2 to get 720p to work.



And of course it now switches colorspace as well.



I dont believe it will switch to non hd resolutions.

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YeAh mrmc sounds great I just hate to give them money after stealing others work. I know there are 2 sides but how is this possibly theirs to close off?

I’ve been beta testing MrMc (and Infuse and Plex) on the Apple TV 4K for a longtime now...but only because I was looking for an alternative to Plex on that device and sideloading Kodi is a pain and difficult to maintain.

It’s just a less polished fork of Kodi, so I can’t imagine why anyone would want to use it on the Shield instead of Kodi...

I’ve only had my Shield TV for a couple of days, but I’ve already retired the Apple TV to my bedroom. It’s been amazing.

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post #10666 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 06:34 AM
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It’s just a less polished fork of Kodi, so I can’t imagine why anyone would want to use it on the Shield instead of Kodi...
For me, it's the annoyance that when I back out of a movie in Kodi, it keeps playing in the background. I want it to stop, just like every other player I've ever used. MrMC does that. Perhaps there's a Kodi skin that offers what I want, but there doesn't seem to be any way to tell what a skin does without installing and using it.

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post #10667 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 06:47 AM
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For me, it's the annoyance that when I back out of a movie in Kodi, it keeps playing in the background. I want it to stop, just like every other player I've ever used. MrMC does that. Perhaps there's a Kodi skin that offers what I want, but there doesn't seem to be any way to tell what a skin does without installing and using it.
And eliminates a button press when playing the next thing.
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post #10668 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
1)already did that.
2)checked they are both at 0. No added or subtracted DB


Maybe the Xbox is doing something, it's a shame. Makes it hard to use something else. The Xbox plays louder than my PS4 also. Something about the Apps on the Xbox, they are all louder with the exception of YouTube.


Greg
Do you have your Xbox audio settings to output Dolby Atmos perhaps? As this setting will output all Audio in Xbox designed Atmos container. Its Xbox's version of up sampling audio and can make the audio stream sound louder as you are driving more channels? Just a theory!

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post #10669 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 10:05 AM
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Make sure on your Marantz Receiver, within the HDMI Setup, "HDMI Passthrough" is set to on.

As an owner of an Xbox One X and Shield, my experience with both devices suggests that the Shield is far superior, especially on the audio side. Using Kodi or Plex on both devices, the Xbox needs to transcode Lossless audio formats, whereas the Shield passes lossless to the AVR to decode. Using Kodi on the Xbox, my AVR displays Dolby Digital or DTS for my 1:1 ripped UHD or BD movies.

The Xbox, like the Apple TV 4k, uses Dolby MAT, and as a result, Atmos is constantly enabled.

Regarding your Marantz AVR, with sound enhancers such as DTS Neural X or Dolby Digital Upmix enabled, your speakers selected as "Atmos" speakers are constantly in use on the Shield, unless you configure the device to a 2-channel configuration, for example. When watching Netflix on the Shield (the native app), DTS Neural X or Dolby Digital Upmix are used.

On the Xbox, using Dolby MAT, titles that are not in Atmos, will disable your "Atmos" speakers.

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post #10670 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Question for you guys regarding my Shield.



I purchased an Apple TV last weekend and noticed that the apps have significantly worse audio quality and dynamic range than my Xbox One X, its very significant. I returned it on friday and picked up a Shield and tested it all weekend. This also fails miserably in comparison to the streaming sound quality of the Xbox One X. It was easy to setup, but it is basically missing the full range sound of the XBox.



At this point I have tried all the streaming products and nothing can compete with the streaming on the Xbox. Is there a reason? More compression? I would say its like 8db less than without the same LFE presence.



Is there any secret settings to let these things open up the audio?



Greg
I would say just the opposite. My XB1X and XB1S are some of the worst streamers I have. They are at the bottom of my list. And I use them for streaming as a last resort. Which is completely opposite of how the 360 was.

Microsoft still has the audio channels screwed up(at least the last time I checked), and the Xbox One has been out for many years now. They apparently are never going to fix it. And then sending Atmos out all the time also screws with the audio depending on the channels.

The XB1X and XB1S can't hold a candle to the streaming from my Shield TVs, ATV 4Ks, Rokus, and 4k Fire TVs Sticks. It's not even close.
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post #10671 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
It will display whatever the movie is using, i.e. Vudu will display atmos if it is in Atmos, netflix displays some weird dolby digital + thing. Maybe the apps on the shield use some kind of compression to speed up load times. It is very noticeable.



If anyone has an Xbox One X and a shield, test with the same content by flipping inputs. It is very dramatic.


Greg
Here the shield is better. But that is because of the Xbox always on Atmos which is borked. I'll use basically any streamer over my XB1X, XB1S, PS4 Pro, or PS4 for streaming content. The current game systems have always been terrible streamers.
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post #10672 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I checked the inputs, its a brand new AVR, did the same thing with the last AVR but it was the same brand. I have no idea why the Xbox One X sounds better. The LFE is double, almost as good as a disc in the Oppo 205.



I don't see any option to select bitstream or PCM in the Shield settings.



The audio is so quiet its hard to hear the dialogue, switch over to xbox one X and its loud and clear. I love the interface, but without the audio it isn't viable. Was this not meant to be used in a full atmos theater?



Greg
Something isn't right in your setup. Something is messed up there.
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post #10673 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
As others have noted, this sounds like an issue with your settings. I have an ATV 4k, FireTV Stick 4k, and a Shield and don't experience the issue you describe at all. This may help -

https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...ecs-settings-/

How would you know? Did you compare it to an Xbox One X? This is actually my question. Is there a streaming device that matches its audio output? The shield is 1/2 the volume of my Oppo 205 playing a UHD Disc with the same content. The Apple TV 4k is a total POS, sound is total garbage on that one. I returned it the next day. I am going to try to make the shield work as best I can. It is strange that the YouTube app is very loud and clear, but the Amazon, Netflix, HBO stuff is lacking dynamic range. It could be that I am asking too much of this device??? I run mostly McIntosh gear, and their stuff does what it says, always.



I will try the HDMI Passthrough later to see if that does anything.


I have checked dynamic EQ, it is off. The only thing on is Audessey reference. I even tried turning that off to no avail.



Xbox does use Atmos for everything, but it was much louder before the update because I had an Apple TV Gen 3 on there and never used it because of the output differential. Keep in mind that was under a different receiver as well. I am well versed in setting systems up, and this is damn near a 6 figure system so output is not an issue. I hope there is a fix, or someone can test their output on Netflix back and forth between Shield and Xbox.


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post #10674 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
Make sure on your Marantz Receiver, within the HDMI Setup, "HDMI Passthrough" is set to on.

As an owner of an Xbox One X and Shield, my experience with both devices suggests that the Shield is far superior, especially on the audio side. Using Kodi or Plex on both devices, the Xbox needs to transcode Lossless audio formats, whereas the Shield passes lossless to the AVR to decode. Using Kodi on the Xbox, my AVR displays Dolby Digital or DTS for my 1:1 ripped UHD or BD movies.

The Xbox, like the Apple TV 4k, uses Dolby MAT, and as a result, Atmos is constantly enabled.

Regarding your Marantz AVR, with sound enhancers such as DTS Neural X or Dolby Digital Upmix enabled, your speakers selected as "Atmos" speakers are constantly in use on the Shield, unless you configure the device to a 2-channel configuration, for example. When watching Netflix on the Shield (the native app), DTS Neural X or Dolby Digital Upmix are used.

On the Xbox, using Dolby MAT, titles that are not in Atmos, will disable your "Atmos" speakers.
Yeah the Xbox can't output the same audio as the Shield. The Xbox can't do full bitstreaming.
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post #10675 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 12:34 PM
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Yeah the Xbox can't output the same audio as the Shield. The Xbox can't do full bitstreaming.
What is < full bitstreaming?
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post #10676 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
How would you know? Did you compare it to an Xbox One X? This is actually my question. Is there a streaming device that matches its audio output? The shield is 1/2 the volume of my Oppo 205 playing a UHD Disc with the same content. The Apple TV 4k is a total POS, sound is total garbage on that one. I returned it the next day. I am going to try to make the shield work as best I can. It is strange that the YouTube app is very loud and clear, but the Amazon, Netflix, HBO stuff is lacking dynamic range. It could be that I am asking too much of this device??? I run mostly McIntosh gear, and their stuff does what it says, always.



I will try the HDMI Passthrough later to see if that does anything.


I have checked dynamic EQ, it is off. The only thing on is Audessey reference. I even tried turning that off to no avail.



Xbox does use Atmos for everything, but it was much louder before the update because I had an Apple TV Gen 3 on there and never used it because of the output differential. Keep in mind that was under a different receiver as well. I am well versed in setting systems up, and this is damn near a 6 figure system so output is not an issue. I hope there is a fix, or someone can test their output on Netflix back and forth between Shield and Xbox.


Greg




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I know we keep repeating ourselves but there is something amiss with your settings or wrong with your AVR if it doesn’t sound right. If you are seeing Dolby digital, Dolby digital plus, or atmos from the shield on your AVR then you are bitstreaming. This is what you want. The sound is untouched by the shield and you are getting max quality from the streaming service or whatever content you are watching. The only place sound processing is occurring is in the AVR. It’s possible you like what the Xbox always on atmos is doing but it’s not what most are striving for and not true to the source. You mentioned that dynamic eq is off. Is it off for Xbox as well? It is user preference but unless you are listening close to reference volume it helps with the low end substantially especially at lower volumes.
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post #10677 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
What is < full bitstreaming?
The Shield cannot decode lossless audio formats, and therefore must Passthrough the signal to an AVR or device capable of decoding the signal. As a result, this is why Shield users with capable AVRs can hear Lossless audio formats such as Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTSMA/DTS-X. That's Full Bitstreaming.

The Xbox One cannot do this and therefore your receiver will only acquire Dolby Digital/Plus and DTS "Lossy" audio.

Atmos coming from the likes of Netflix on the Xbox One, or any capable device, is a Lossy variant of Dolby Digital Plus.
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post #10678 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 01:01 PM
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What is < full bitstreaming?
Bistreaming where my AVR can actually recognize Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA, which the Xbox can't due.

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post #10679 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
The Shield cannot decode lossless audio formats, and therefore must Passthrough the signal to an AVR or device capable of decoding the signal. As a result, this is why Shield users with capable AVRs can hear Lossless audio formats such as Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTSMA/DTS-X. That's Full Bitstreaming.

The Xbox One cannot do this and therefore your receiver will only acquire Dolby Digital/Plus and DTS "Lossy" audio.

Atmos coming from the likes of Netflix on the Xbox One, or any capable device, is a Lossy variant of Dolby Digital Plus.
That's funny, when I play a Atmos Blu-ray on my X-Box my Atmos soundbar lights up with "Atmos".
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post #10680 of 12428 Old 07-01-2019, 01:13 PM
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That's funny, when I play a Atmos Blu-ray on my X-Box my Atmos soundbar lights up with "Atmos".
The Blu-Ray or UHD Blu Ray App is the only means to acquire Lossless audio on the Xbox One. When streaming through apps such as Kodi or Plex, this is not the case.

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