NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box) - Page 357 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10681 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
How would you know? Did you compare it to an Xbox One X? This is actually my question. Is there a streaming device that matches its audio output? The shield is 1/2 the volume of my Oppo 205 playing a UHD Disc with the same content. The Apple TV 4k is a total POS, sound is total garbage on that one. I returned it the next day. I am going to try to make the shield work as best I can. It is strange that the YouTube app is very loud and clear, but the Amazon, Netflix, HBO stuff is lacking dynamic range. It could be that I am asking too much of this device??? I run mostly McIntosh gear, and their stuff does what it says, always.



I will try the HDMI Passthrough later to see if that does anything.


I have checked dynamic EQ, it is off. The only thing on is Audessey reference. I even tried turning that off to no avail.



Xbox does use Atmos for everything, but it was much louder before the update because I had an Apple TV Gen 3 on there and never used it because of the output differential. Keep in mind that was under a different receiver as well. I am well versed in setting systems up, and this is damn near a 6 figure system so output is not an issue. I hope there is a fix, or someone can test their output on Netflix back and forth between Shield and Xbox.


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Obviously none of us here who have been using the Shield for years know much of anything. Clearly we all missed the fact that the Shield outputs substandard audio. Thanks for coming here and straightening us all out...LOL

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post #10682 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
The Blu-Ray or UHD Blu Ray App is the only means to acquire Lossless audio on the Xbox One. When streaming through apps such as Kodi or Plex, this is not the case.
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
The Shield cannot decode lossless audio formats, and therefore must Passthrough the signal to an AVR or device capable of decoding the signal. As a result, this is why Shield users with capable AVRs can hear Lossless audio formats such as Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTSMA/DTS-X. That's Full Bitstreaming.

The Xbox One cannot do this and therefore your receiver will only acquire Dolby Digital/Plus and DTS "Lossy" audio.

Atmos coming from the likes of Netflix on the Xbox One, or any capable device, is a Lossy variant of Dolby Digital Plus.
Ok so one of these are incorrect or I'm confused.
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post #10683 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
Ok so one of these are incorrect or I'm confused.
Both statements are accurate, but refer to two different methods of playback. When you use the XBox as a disc player, it will bitstream all the lossless codecs for decoding by the AVR. However, any method of playing lossless audio from a networked source does not permit lossless bitstreaming to the AVR. It has to be decoded in the XBox, if able, or you can't play it at all. The Shield has no such streaming restriction, but it can be a little tricky to ensure that audio is bitstreamed to an AVR. Not only does the Shield itself need to be configured correctly, but whatever playback app you're using (Kodi, VLC, MrMC, etc.) has to be configured separately.

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post #10684 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 01:41 PM
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Both statements are correct.

Look at these screen shots.

You're seeing Atmos because the Xbox One is using the Dolby MAT format. This is the case for apps such as Kodi and Plex.

Xbox One X using Kodi/Plex

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post #10685 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 01:43 PM
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Shield using Kodi/Plex



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post #10686 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
Obviously none of us here who have been using the Shield for years know much of anything. Clearly we all missed the fact that the Shield outputs substandard audio. Thanks for coming here and straightening us all out...LOL

Hey thanks for the rude comment and the superior tone. I am an audio quality first guy and it isn't outputting anywhere near the sound that I would consider acceptable. I am sure it's great if you have a tv only setup or a soundbar, but it doesn't cut it for me. It's no big deal, this is the best it can do, but it isn't something that I am interested in. I can just return it.



Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps. I have no desire to rip movies or play pirated stuff. I have the UHD discs and obviously no streaming apps will compete with a UHD Blu-Ray.



Greg




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post #10687 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Hey thanks for the rude comment and the superior tone. I am an audio quality first guy and it isn't outputting anywhere near the sound that I would consider acceptable. I am sure it's great if you have a tv only setup or a soundbar, but it doesn't cut it for me. It's no big deal, this is the best it can do, but it isn't something that I am interested in. I can just return it.



Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps. I have no desire to rip movies or play pirated stuff. I have the UHD discs and obviously no streaming apps will compete with a UHD Blu-Ray.



Greg




Greg
The Shield is bitstreaming that content. Well the Multi-channel audio content. So the Shield is doing nothing to it. Your receiver is the one decoding it. With the Xbox, it is decoding the audio and sending it out as multi-channel PCM audio.

So if it doesn't sound right then either your receiver is mucking with it. Or the Xbox is processing the signal to the point where it does not sound like it is supposed to.

The streaming apps use lossy audio. Typically DD+. There should not be the audible difference you described between the two. The quality of the audio should be similar. In every setup I have I know it is. But the main issue I have with the Xbox is that it can mess with the sound stage, when it sends out Atmos all the time. And then typically prevents a receiver from properly applying post processing.

My receivers sound much better applying Atmos or DTS:X post processing with content than what the xbox can do. They will properly place the audio in the sound stage. While the Xbox, in some instances, does a very poor job of it. And mixes sounds where they should not be.
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post #10688 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The Shield is bitstreaming that content. Well the Multi-channel audio content. So the Shield is doing nothing to it. Your receiver is the one decoding it. With the Xbox, it is decoding the audio and sending it out as multi-channel PCM audio.

So if it doesn't sound right then either your receiver is mucking with it. Or the Xbox is processing the signal to the point where it does not sound like it is supposed to.

The streaming apps use lossy audio. Typically DD+. There should not be the audible difference you described between the two. The quality of the audio should be similar. In every setup I have I know it is. But the main issue I have with the Xbox is that it can mess with the sound stage, when it sends out Atmos all the time. And then typically prevents a receiver from properly applying post processing.

My receivers sound much better applying Atmos or DTS:X post processing with content than what the xbox can do. They will properly place the audio in the sound stage. While the Xbox, in some instances, does a very poor job of it. And mixes sounds where they should not be.

Finally, this I understand. That makes sense, because I have gone through all other streamers. The Nvidia shield has the best interface, remote, and menus. I guess I will try a few things. Should I try to switch the Xbox to bitstreaming? Is this possible?


Thanks for taking the time to write this, I do appreciate it.



Greg

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post #10689 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Hey thanks for the rude comment and the superior tone. I am an audio quality first guy and it isn't outputting anywhere near the sound that I would consider acceptable. I am sure it's great if you have a tv only setup or a soundbar, but it doesn't cut it for me. It's no big deal, this is the best it can do, but it isn't something that I am interested in. I can just return it.



Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps. I have no desire to rip movies or play pirated stuff. I have the UHD discs and obviously no streaming apps will compete with a UHD Blu-Ray.



Greg




Greg
"Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps."

Streaming apps? It seems you would have known exactly what to expect. Most of us know the current limitations of streaming going into it.
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post #10690 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Is there a streaming device that matches its audio output? The shield is 1/2 the volume of my Oppo 205 playing a UHD Disc with the same content.
I think that's one of the reasons they invented buttons on the remote to control the volume. It's irrelevant at what volume something plays back at (versus another source/device) and you certainly can't compare audio quality without level matching them first. Also quality wise comparing a UHD disc to streaming services audio is not a fair fight as the content isn't the same.
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post #10691 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Finally, this I understand. That makes sense, because I have gone through all other streamers. The Nvidia shield has the best interface, remote, and menus. I guess I will try a few things. Should I try to switch the Xbox to bitstreaming? Is this possible?


Thanks for taking the time to write this, I do appreciate it.



Greg

If you have the Xbox set to "Bitstream Out" and the Bitstream format set to "Dolby Atmos for Home Theater", then the Xbox will output Atmos audio all the time.

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post #10692 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
"Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps."

Streaming apps? It seems you would have known exactly what to expect. Most of us know the current limitations of streaming going into it.

I realize that, that's why I was wondering how the Xbox has so much LFE in it's streaming apps. I streamed the movie "Beats" on the Xbox and it was shaking the dishes in my sink 50 feet away, I switched inputs on the receiver to the Shield and hit resume to test it and the subs don't even move. It is a discrepancy, I wanted to make sure that I was using the Shield correctly, or that I had set it up correctly.



What I can gather is that the Xbox is processing its audio differently than other streamers and might be amplifying the sound or manipulating it. This seems to be the answer to my question. Thanks everyone.



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post #10693 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Hey thanks for the rude comment and the superior tone. I am an audio quality first guy and it isn't outputting anywhere near the sound that I would consider acceptable. I am sure it's great if you have a tv only setup or a soundbar, but it doesn't cut it for me. It's no big deal, this is the best it can do, but it isn't something that I am interested in. I can just return it.



Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps. I have no desire to rip movies or play pirated stuff. I have the UHD discs and obviously no streaming apps will compete with a UHD Blu-Ray.



Greg




Greg
Oh don’t get your panties in a bunch...
One of my Shields is in my home theater going thru a Denon x6400h with a full 7.2.4 ATMOS setup so I’m guessing I’d notice if it wasn’t performing well. In addition to other gear I do have an Xbox One connected there as well, but full disclosure it’s not an “x”. But like I said before, from a streaming perspective I’m just not hearing the issue you are hearing with the Shield in my home theater comparing it with a FireTV Stick 4k, an AppleTV 4k, and my Xbox One.

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post #10694 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Hey thanks for the rude comment and the superior tone. I am an audio quality first guy and it isn't outputting anywhere near the sound that I would consider acceptable. I am sure it's great if you have a tv only setup or a soundbar, but it doesn't cut it for me. It's no big deal, this is the best it can do, but it isn't something that I am interested in. I can just return it.



Keep in mind I am not talking about playing ripped UHD files, I am talking about the streaming apps. I have no desire to rip movies or play pirated stuff. I have the UHD discs and obviously no streaming apps will compete with a UHD Blu-Ray.



Greg




Greg


...if you’re blaming a device that is BITSTREAMING the audio...you are clearly beyond your depth.


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post #10695 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 09:05 PM
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...if you’re blaming a device that is BITSTREAMING the audio...you are clearly beyond your depth.


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I am always beyond my depth. Like how I work 60 hours a week running my own business. Perhaps I don't want to know every facet of how some piece of audio/video gear works, I really don't care. I admit, I am a music first person. I like quality audio in my movies. I had asked why the Xbox has more dynamic range, what exactly was it that made it so much louder and powerful sounding. I wanted to make sure I had the Shield hooked up correctly that's all.



Just looked it up online and the Nvidia Shield doesn't support Atmos at all in Netflix. I guess the Xbox has support. It is such a pain that no one streaming box does it all. They are all crippled in some way.

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post #10696 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 09:45 PM
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Just looked it up online and the Nvidia Shield doesn't support Atmos at all in Netflix. I guess the Xbox has support. It is such a pain that no one streaming box does it all. They are all crippled in some way.
If you don’t need full support of local ripped media with atmos/dts:x then the Apple TV 4K probably comes closest to doing everything. Dolby vision and atmos support on all major services that support them plus the large iTunes library.
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post #10697 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 09:48 PM
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If you don’t need full support of local ripped media with atmos/dts:x then the Apple TV 4K probably comes closest to doing everything. Dolby vision and atmos support on all major services that support them plus the large iTunes library.

Forgive my ignorance but is Atmos support something that cannot be implemented into the Netflix app on the shield?



I have a Apple 4k in the bedroom, I could always swap them. I don't have an AVR up there so it wouldn't matter what is supported.


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post #10698 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 09:58 PM
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Forgive my ignorance but is Atmos support something that cannot be implemented into the Netflix app on the shield?



I have a Apple 4k in the bedroom, I could always swap them. I don't have an AVR up there so it wouldn't matter what is supported.


Greg
Apple TV is the only streaming device that supports Atmos across Prime, Netflix, and Vudu as far as I know.
Do you have an EQ adjustment or something on the Xbox that is effecting it?

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post #10699 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 10:01 PM
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Apple TV is the only streaming device that supports Atmos across Prime, Netflix, and Vudu as far as I know.
Do you have an EQ adjustment or something on the Xbox that is effecting it?

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Not that I know of. I do have it set to bitstream atmos so maybe that is causing the boost in output.

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post #10700 of 12130 Old 07-01-2019, 10:09 PM
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Forgive my ignorance but is Atmos support something that cannot be implemented into the Netflix app on the shield?
It certainly could be easily added. It’s s financial decision between Nvidia and Netflix.
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post #10701 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I am always beyond my depth. Like how I work 60 hours a week running my own business. Perhaps I don't want to know every facet of how some piece of audio/video gear works, I really don't care. I admit, I am a music first person. I like quality audio in my movies. I had asked why the Xbox has more dynamic range, what exactly was it that made it so much louder and powerful sounding. I wanted to make sure I had the Shield hooked up correctly that's all.



Just looked it up online and the Nvidia Shield doesn't support Atmos at all in Netflix. I guess the Xbox has support. It is such a pain that no one streaming box does it all. They are all crippled in some way.
Yeah, unfortunately it's the current environment with streaming devices that one device won't do it all depending on your requirements. I'm not a huge Apple fan but I ended up adding a ATV 4k to my streaming device "collection" just to get ATMOS support on NetFlix and "muliview" support on PSVue for sports, neither of which are supported by the Shield or the FireTV Stick 4k. Actually their are several things currently not supported by the Shield. One example is that the Shield does not support HDR on YouTube (due to lack of VP9 profile 2 support). Even with it's known limitations, no DV support is another one that is well known, it is still arguably one of the best streaming devices available.

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post #10702 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Forgive my ignorance but is Atmos support something that cannot be implemented into the Netflix app on the shield?



I have a Apple 4k in the bedroom, I could always swap them. I don't have an AVR up there so it wouldn't matter what is supported.


Greg
It's not 100% clear to me if it is just an upgrade to the NetFlix app that is required or if their is a more basic limitation of the Shield itself. While I have seen some posts that indicate it is just an app update that NetFlix has to push I have also seen other posts indicating their were hardware and/or firmware issue at the root of the problem. I only have ATMOS capability in my home theater so once I added a ATV 4k (which does support ATMOS on NetFlix) there I honestly stopped following the issue.

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post #10703 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
It's not 100% clear to me if it is just an upgrade to the NetFlix app that is required or if their is a more basic limitation of the Shield itself. While I have seen some posts that indicate it is just an app update that NetFlix has to push I have also seen other posts indicating their were hardware and/or firmware issue at the root of the problem. I only have ATMOS capability in my home theater so once I added a ATV 4k (which does support ATMOS on NetFlix) there I honestly stopped following the issue.
I can't imagine there's a hardware issue with it. The Shield supports Atmos with Vudu, and it's the same audio codec (DD+) in use. And it of course supports bitstreaming TrueHD/Atmos without issue.

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post #10704 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 05:11 AM
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I can't imagine there's a hardware issue with it. The Shield supports Atmos with Vudu, and it's the same audio codec (DD+) in use. And it of course supports bitstreaming TrueHD/Atmos without issue.
Yeah, I thought for a long time that it was just an update to the app that NetFlix needed to make. But I recall reading here or over in the Nvidia forums that it had something to do with the specific container, or something like that, that NetFlix was using that was unique to NetFlix. If I can find the post I will reference it here...again it could be just me not understanding and/or following this specific issue closely enough so I certainly could be wrong.

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post #10705 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 05:15 AM
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Yeah, I thought for a long time that it was just an update to the app that NetFlix needed to make. But I recall reading here or over in the Nvidia forums that it had something to do with the specific container, or something like that, that NetFlix was using that was unique to NetFlix. If I can find the post I will reference it here...again it could be just me not understanding and/or following this specific issue closely enough so I certainly could be wrong.
So I do think I'm wrong here (wouldn't be the first time...or the last...LOL). I seem to recall some folks using Kodi and the NetFlix addon to get ATMOS support in NetFlix on the Shield so it can't be a hardware/firmware limitation.
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post #10706 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 05:46 AM
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So I do think I'm wrong here (wouldn't be the first time...or the last...LOL). I seem to recall some folks using Kodi and the NetFlix addon to get ATMOS support in NetFlix on the Shield so it can't be a hardware/firmware limitation.
Right. Netflix addon for Kodi supports Atmos just fine on my Shield and my Sony Z9D. Neither are supported via the normal app. I dont know why Netflix puts in all this effort to have Atmos audio yet only supports it on a handful of devices.
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post #10707 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 08:56 AM
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The Netflix Kodi add-on for the Shield is imo proof that this device is fully capable of handling lots of things that can be implemented via Software.

With the Amazon Prime app, there was no update to acquire Dolby Atmos. They just flipped the switch.

The Shield has been capable of bitstreaming DTSMA since 2015, and it didn't take long for Dolby TrueHD to get support as well.



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post #10708 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 09:16 AM
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Just looked it up online and the Nvidia Shield doesn't support Atmos at all in Netflix.
Starting there would have saved you a lot of time and effort.

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Perhaps I don't want to know every facet of how some piece of audio/video gear works, I really don't care.
This is a bizarrely long string of questions from someone who doesn't want to know how things work and doesn't care.

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post #10709 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 11:36 AM
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Starting there would have saved you a lot of time and effort.



This is a bizarrely long string of questions from someone who doesn't want to know how things work and doesn't care.

Honestly I thought it would be current across the board for streaming. I didn't pay it much attention because it doesn't cost much and I have a 45 day return policy. I just wanted to try it out on a whim. The whole streaming universe is such a convoluted, needlessly complex situation.



Not a bizarre string if you look at my OP. I wanted to find something that had the dynamic range of the Xbox One X that was more user friendly and didn't require me to turn on the xbox every single time I wanted to watch something.



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post #10710 of 12130 Old 07-02-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
The Netflix Kodi add-on for the Shield is imo proof that this device is fully capable of handling lots of things that can be implemented via Software.

With the Amazon Prime app, there was no update to acquire Dolby Atmos. They just flipped the switch.

The Shield has been capable of bitstreaming DTSMA since 2015, and it didn't take long for Dolby TrueHD to get support as well.



Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Agree, had zero problems using the Netflix addon, lossy atmos works flawlessly and I like the fact I can import series links straight into my Library

I have seen a few posts with regards to the xbox.

Xbox uses Dolby MAT which is PCM with metadata. When enabled, in order to mix in the system sounds and other things it will always output as Dolby MAT regardless of the signal/audio codec it is receiving. Third Party Apps do not have access to the necessary api's to process atmos (hence the Plex Server Transcoding audio)

The Blu-ray Player and Games have access to this api, I believe Netflix gets round this by using the Edge browser (first party app) in a web wrapper for playback

cheers
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