*Official Kaleidescape Alto Owners Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 12:49 AM
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Sorry to jump onto this thread as I am a Cinema 1 owner, not an Alto owner, but I am interested to read about these new 4K players from K (and there doesn't seem to be a dedicated thread for it yet).

I have to agree with what many have posted here the pricing is extreme to say the least, and the Alto can't even stream 4K content from a Terra server if I am reading it correctly, so I've no idea why anyone would want the HDD-less unit.

Finally (and maybe someone else can confirm this for me), but I've zoomed in on the pictures of the units that have been included in the various press releases - and maybe I'm missing something, but . . . where is the disc slot? Please don't tell me these things can't play the new UHD Blu-rays.
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post #242 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:10 AM
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I wonder if it would be possible to just buy a 4TB Alto, image the disc onto an 8TB drive and toss that back in the case.

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post #243 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Haywood Jablomi View Post
I wonder if it would be possible to just buy a 4TB Alto, image the disc onto an 8TB drive and toss that back in the case.
Very interesting. I'm sure it would void the warranty but interesting nonetheless.

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post #244 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:45 AM
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I don't want to look like a fan boy but K does offer much more than hardware. They offer movie guide service which i have used and also offer folks an upgrade path to their new products. Unfortunately all these things cost. Their OS they use as well is rock solid and support as good as any I have seen.

If the question comes to whether its expensive, then my answer is yes. Is it worth it - that question can only be answered by individuals.

Cheers

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post #245 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:50 AM
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I don't want to look like a fan boy but K does offer much more than hardware. They offer movie guide service which i have used and also offer folks an upgrade path to their new products. Unfortunately all these things cost. Their OS they use as well is rock solid and support as good as any I have seen.

If the question comes to whether its expensive, then my answer is yes. Is it worth it - that question can only be answered by individuals.

Cheers

Raj
So Raj, what are your plans with the Encore line being announced? I know you have an Alto and Vault...where will you go from here...they are all part of the Encore line.


And you're correct on whether or not this is worth it....it is up to each person. I personally think it's very expensive but I still want one and it's not like anyone in this hobby hasn't already spent many many thousands of dollars.

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post #246 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:52 AM
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Very interesting. I'm sure it would void the warranty but interesting nonetheless.
If it worked, I could pick up four of the original Alto boxes for $10,000, spend another $1000 on three 8TB drives and get a solution with four zones that stores 800 movies for $11,000. That is a FAR more reasonable price point, if not exactly cheap.

Better yet, if I could use a SATA to eSATA adaptor and an external 4-bay enclosure, it might be possible to put 600-800 movies on a single Alto.

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post #247 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:55 AM
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So Raj, what are your plans with the Encore line being announced? I know you have an Alto and Vault...where will you go from here...they are all part of the Encore line.


And you're correct on whether or not this is worth it....it is up to each person. I personally think it's very expensive but I still want one and it's not like anyone in this hobby hasn't already spent many many thousands of dollars.
I agree with you on the $ spend. I have already reached out to my dealer. They are waiting to hear back on promo deals. My plan is to trade in Alto and get the Strato with HD.

I currently have 90 movies in my Alto and another 110 BR in my vault. If I get the Strato now and as when need for more space comes will get Terra Server. I will exclusively use Vault for BR and Stratos hard disk for 4K movies. I had an Oppo 105D which I just sold now. In all honesty after getting the Alto and Vault (without Vault Alto is not fun) been watching more of my collection.

Cheers

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post #248 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rramacha View Post
I don't want to look like a fan boy but K does offer much more than hardware. They offer movie guide service which i have used and also offer folks an upgrade path to their new products. Unfortunately all these things cost. Their OS they use as well is rock solid and support as good as any I have seen.

If the question comes to whether its expensive, then my answer is yes. Is it worth it - that question can only be answered by individuals.

Cheers

Raj
My main complaint is that the pricing structure makes it prohibitively expensive for people with large libraries and that the pricing structure bears little resemblance to the actual cost of storage.
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post #249 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 08:00 AM
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My main complaint is that the pricing structure makes it prohibitively expensive for people with large libraries and that the pricing structure bears little resemblance to the actual cost of storage.
Scott

I cannot agree more with you. I am not made of money and its very expensive. Simple analogy is wine industry as that is some thing I have experience with. Price for some of the wines keep skyrocketing and no logic to that.

Alto honestly like you said for 2TB extra space went up by $800. Unfortunately when some one holds IP they can fix price that they see market will bear. Only time will tell if K judged pricing correctly.

Cheers

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post #250 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 08:07 AM
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This space is ripe for a start-up to sweep in and kick ass. The trick is the licensing and I think the smart money would be on someone partnering with someone who already has content. It is also possible that one of the big players will see money in this. Imagine what would happen if Vudu with all of its vast licensing, decided to release Alto-like boxes for $400 each and marketed them through places like Magnolia and other more mainstream channels. I think it is only a matter of time, mainly because of bandwidth constraints as we move to 4k.

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post #251 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 08:13 AM
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Scott

I cannot agree more with you. I am not made of money and its very expensive. Simple analogy is wine industry as that is some thing I have experience with. Price for some of the wines keep skyrocketing and no logic to that.

Alto honestly like you said for 2TB extra space went up by $800. Unfortunately when some one holds IP they can fix price that they see market will bear. Only time will tell if K judged pricing correctly.

Cheers

Raj
I'm a guy who buys excellent value wines at Trader Joe's rather than expensive wines from boutiques. I am all about the total value proposition, which is one reason I'm not an Apple guy either. I think part of the impediment is that I know too much. I know exactly how much hardware is required to store and stream movies. I know what competent media players cost. I know what various levels of NAS appliances cost. I know that good movie metadata is available for free from several sources. I know that a nice UI for navigating movie libraries is no longer a rare commodity. I also know that the streaming industry is moving toward download support and that there is wide talk about uncompressed downloads. I still need to update my display and my receiver to take advantage of HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2, 4K and UHD. I can afford to sit this out awhile. Vudu looks fine on my 9 year-old 1080p set.

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post #252 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 08:18 AM
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I think I going to wait a little bit longer as well. I need to upgrade my proc for Atmos, which I plan to do early next year. Then sometime middle next year, I think I will take the plunge with a hd equipped Strato.

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post #253 of 572 Old 10-16-2015, 01:46 PM
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I just spoke with a KScape Representative and asked if their was a disc slot in the new Strato, his comment was "no disc slot in the new Strato"...He said if you want to play a disc from your library or Netflix you will have to buy the Disc server. I do not want to buy every freakin, movie so now I would have to buy a new UHD player to compliment the Strato. I'm still 6 mos to a year away from updating my new JVC4910 anyway....guess I won't worry about it. My next upgrade is my AVR so I can do ATMOS
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post #254 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 05:01 AM
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I was hoping for so much more from them. $4,500 is crazy and not a broader user base move. No disc player with a store that lacks so much content does not work. Sigh.

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post #255 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 05:54 AM
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Old Alto was $2995, so $300 more for the new model (4 TB to 6 TB)
No, the 4TB Alto was $2,495 so it's an $800 increase for the 6TB Alto. This is extremely disappointing. I've been waiting for the right price point to jump into the Kaleidescape ecosystem. It seems like they took one step forward and then two steps back. If the 6TB Alto had come in at the same price or cheaper than the 4TB, I likely would've purchased it.
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post #256 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Haywood Jablomi View Post
I'm a guy who buys excellent value wines at Trader Joe's rather than expensive wines from boutiques. I am all about the total value proposition, which is one reason I'm not an Apple guy either. I think part of the impediment is that I know too much. I know exactly how much hardware is required to store and stream movies. I know what competent media players cost. I know what various levels of NAS appliances cost. I know that good movie metadata is available for free from several sources. I know that a nice UI for navigating movie libraries is no longer a rare commodity. I also know that the streaming industry is moving toward download support and that there is wide talk about uncompressed downloads. I still need to update my display and my receiver to take advantage of HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2, 4K and UHD. I can afford to sit this out awhile. Vudu looks fine on my 9 year-old 1080p set.
I am not saying wines at Trader Joe's are not good. That does not mean wines that have gone up in price are not worth any more. Its a simple question of supply and demand. Chateau Palmer or Harlan can moving the price up and still got market for their product. Believe it or not these are some fine wines thats worth $. Same way K caters to certain market. I wish they were cheaper just like the wines we like.
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post #257 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 06:18 AM
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I just spoke with a KScape Representative and asked if their was a disc slot in the new Strato, his comment was "no disc slot in the new Strato"...He said if you want to play a disc from your library or Netflix you will have to buy the Disc server.
Haha, I was really confused for a minute when you said Netflix. I was thinking streaming and wondering what in the world? Then I realized you were referring to physical discs from Netflix
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post #258 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 06:34 AM
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I am not saying wines at Trader Joe's are not good. That does not mean wines that have gone up in price are not worth any more. Its a simple question of supply and demand. Chateau Palmer or Harlan can moving the price up and still got market for their product. Believe it or not these are some fine wines thats worth $. Same way K caters to certain market. I wish they were cheaper just like the wines we like.
Exactly. The frustrating think in the Kaleidescape market is that there really isn't a cheap equivalent. Yet. I expect that to change over the next year or two.

One thing I am considering, however, is just forgetting about the idea of having my entire library on local storage. If I can download movies I own any time, I could just keep a rotating selection of 100 movies on an Alto and call it a day. I would still have the rest available on demand from Vudu on my Roku boxes. The reason I do not like this option is simply that it spreads my library across multiple devices and services. Again, Kaleidescape really makes the barrier to entry almost insurmountable to the non-millionaire with a large collection.
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post #259 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 06:58 AM
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I am a current owner of a Cinema one that allows imports of the DVD, CD and BluRay + download from the store. I was able to pickup a Cinema from BB at a discount a couple of years back. We love the import feature and the download store. But the primary concern we have are two things. One is the lack of storage beyond a second cinema one. It would have been nice to have access to the expanded storage of the Alto(3 additional devices) to support the Cinema One(which cost better than 1/3 more in cost but lacks some of the expandability features). The software does not allow an Alto to link with a "Legacy" Cinema one(Which visibly looks identical to each other). The DV 700 4k price point although expensive is better than the 2k Sony Blu-ray carousel sold on the used market with a terrible interface. But what annoys us is that the DV700 allows the Alto to play a Bluray/DVD for all 320 slots under the ALTO system but will not on the Cinema One product line.

I have yet heard of a reasonable trade-in policy for a C1 to protect the investment of "early" adopter of their "mass market" line. I agree with what most comments found on the forum. The Stratos would be better if it was a 1/3 less than retail to introduce new subscribers. Or at least at the same price point as the original ALTO. Their pricing does not support it current customer nor help to introduce new ones.

And the premiere lines is lack for a better word for the wealthy. I got the 'poor' man's version.
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post #260 of 572 Old 10-17-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Applemike68 View Post
I just spoke with a KScape Representative and asked if their was a disc slot in the new Strato, his comment was "no disc slot in the new Strato"...He said if you want to play a disc from your library or Netflix you will have to buy the Disc server. I do not want to buy every freakin, movie so now I would have to buy a new UHD player to compliment the Strato. I'm still 6 mos to a year away from updating my new JVC4910 anyway....guess I won't worry about it. My next upgrade is my AVR so I can do ATMOS
The Disc Server is so expensive that it might not cost more to re-purchase the movies. This exemplifies my problem with their pricing model.

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post #261 of 572 Old 10-18-2015, 11:38 AM
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Yes, but you own your discs vs if you buy the online content you dont own it. There's currently no law that says if X content provider goes bankrupt that your purchased media is unlocked and yours. Everyone has a vested interest in the media belonging to the purchaser, but nobody of note has gone under to cause this issue yet.
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post #262 of 572 Old 10-18-2015, 01:33 PM
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Yes, but you own your discs vs if you buy the online content you dont own it. There's currently no law that says if X content provider goes bankrupt that your purchased media is unlocked and yours. Everyone has a vested interest in the media belonging to the purchaser, but nobody of note has gone under to cause this issue yet.
UltraViolet licensing avoids this issue, because the licensing is directly with the content owner and not with the reseller. If I buy a UV license through Kaleidescape and they go under, I still have my license and can still watch my movie on Vudu, Cinema Now, M-GO or Flixster.

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post #263 of 572 Old 10-18-2015, 01:45 PM
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UltraViolet licensing avoids this issue, because the licensing is directly with the content owner and not with the reseller. If I buy a UV license through Kaleidescape and they go under, I still have my license and can still watch my movie on Vudu, Cinema Now, M-GO or Flixster.
You can even buy Ultraviolte content via Verizon Fios and link it with the K system
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post #264 of 572 Old 10-18-2015, 01:45 PM
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UltraViolet licensing avoids this issue, because the licensing is directly with the content owner and not with the reseller. If I buy a UV license through Kaleidescape and they go under, I still have my license and can still watch my movie on Vudu, Cinema Now, M-GO or Flixster.
You can even buy Ultraviolte content via Verizon Fios and link it with the K system
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post #265 of 572 Old 10-18-2015, 02:28 PM
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You can even buy Ultraviolte content via Verizon Fios and link it with the K system
If K would just sign on with the remainder of the UV studios and upgrade their relationship with Disney to full participation in DMA, it would make their somewhat dicey value proposition a little more appealing.

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post #266 of 572 Old 10-19-2015, 12:40 AM
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I just spoke with a KScape Representative and asked if their was a disc slot in the new Strato, his comment was "no disc slot in the new Strato"...He said if you want to play a disc from your library or Netflix you will have to buy the Disc server. . . .
Thanks for confirming. That is quite surprising, not to mention very disappointing. As you mention, the requirement to buy a third party UHD disc player or a new UHD disc playing Vault, in order to simply play from physical media significantly weakens K's proposition in my opinion.


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I am a current owner of a Cinema one that allows imports of the DVD, CD and BluRay + download from the store. I was able to pickup a Cinema from BB at a discount a couple of years back. We love the import feature and the download store. But the primary concern we have are two things. One is the lack of storage beyond a second cinema one. It would have been nice to have access to the expanded storage of the Alto(3 additional devices) to support the Cinema One(which cost better than 1/3 more in cost but lacks some of the expandability features). The software does not allow an Alto to link with a "Legacy" Cinema one(Which visibly looks identical to each other). The DV 700 4k price point although expensive is better than the 2k Sony Blu-ray carousel sold on the used market with a terrible interface. But what annoys us is that the DV700 allows the Alto to play a Bluray/DVD for all 320 slots under the ALTO system but will not on the Cinema One product line.

I have yet heard of a reasonable trade-in policy for a C1 to protect the investment of "early" adopter of their "mass market" line. I agree with what most comments found on the forum. The Stratos would be better if it was a 1/3 less than retail to introduce new subscribers. Or at least at the same price point as the original ALTO. Their pricing does not support it current customer nor help to introduce new ones.

And the premiere lines is lack for a better word for the wealthy. I got the 'poor' man's version.
I have to agree with you Ariel Sound, Cinema 1 owners seemed to have been completely forgotten about and left 'out in the cold' here by K. It is something of an insult that K are not even prepared to unlock the use of the DV700 for C1 owners, yet are happy to do so on the lower priced Alto, which already has the ability to link twice as many units anyway.
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post #267 of 572 Old 10-19-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks for confirming. That is quite surprising, not to mention very disappointing. As you mention, the requirement to buy a third party UHD disc player or a new UHD disc playing Vault, in order to simply play from physical media significantly weakens K's proposition in my opinion.




I have to agree with you Ariel Sound, Cinema 1 owners seemed to have been completely forgotten about and left 'out in the cold' here by K. It is something of an insult that K are not even prepared to unlock the use of the DV700 for C1 owners, yet are happy to do so on the lower priced Alto, which already has the ability to link twice as many units anyway.
I see a lot of the premier customers are total pissed that they need to run a 4k stratus alongside their system and there is no way to keep both systems within a single UI. Boy, I share their pain. K has really dropped the ball on early adopter and long term supporters. If they would just drop the price or provide a trade-in policy that would help existing customer.

Last edited by Aerialsound; 10-19-2015 at 06:35 AM.
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post #268 of 572 Old 10-19-2015, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerialsound View Post
I see a lot of the premier customers are total pissed that they need to run a 4k stratus alongside their system and there is no way to keep both systems within a single UI. Boy, I share their pain. K has really dropped the ball on early adopter and long term supporters. If they would just drop the price or provide a trade-in policy that would help existing customer.
Crikey yeah, I hadn't thought about that. I'm annoyed enough stuck with two C1's, I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I'd just dropped $40k or whatever on a full Premium system!

I don't want to sound negative about Kal, I think my C1's are awesome, but they do need to sort this as a matter of urgency!
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post #269 of 572 Old 10-19-2015, 09:56 AM
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So it seems like the only way to enjoy the K experience, while staying somewhat "future proof" in some capacity, and not completely breaking the bank, would be to get the Strato to store 100 4K movies (lets say you fill that within 2-4 years), then get the vault to hold your existing bluray collection, and PRAY you don't fill it because at that point, you'd be eating into your 4K capacity.

But the issue here, as many people have stated, is that the Strato doesn't have a disc drive. Its download 4K, or wait and pay a fortune for a 4K vault. That just kinda sucks since I buy pretty much 80% of my bluray discs on Amazon Prime since they have great price drops if you keep tabs on them, or find those bargain bins at BestBuy and grab $5 classics.

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post #270 of 572 Old 10-19-2015, 10:11 AM
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I currently have an Alto and Vault.

I am planning to upgrade to Strato. Only issue I see is this. If say Spectre comes out in 4K Disc and its not available in the store, no way to enjoy that. You are struck with having to buy Blu Ray disc and use the vault.

What I expect to happen is current vault being replaced with a vault that can do 4K. My hope K as always will give promo for folks who have Vault to upgrade.

Cheers

Raj
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