Streaming Interstellar in UHD with UltraFlix - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 03:47 PM
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Harmy actually works for UltraFlix! http://www.techhive.com/article/2881...nversions.html
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post #62 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 03:59 PM
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post #63 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
One step forward two steps back...

And how does UltraFlix compare to a Blu-Ray up-convert to UHD from an OPPO?

Thanks!
Cheers,
♦ I have no idea; but others I'm sure have one.

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4k or not.. Streaming is a girlyman thing.. Real men only use Discs..
♦ Streaming is about sex gender? ...Kevon, you too funny man.
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post #64 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yes. Well, sort of. If there is a bandwidth issue, and it's not unheard of, then Vudu stops the movie and asks if you want to try to continue at that quality level. It will not simply downgrade the stream without asking. Interruptions due to insufficient bandwidth are rare for me.
See that's the thing. My BluRay player has never stopped a movie due to limited bandwidth. I've never had any image quality downgrades.
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post #65 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 08:02 PM
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Harmy actually works for UltraFlix! http://www.techhive.com/article/2881...nversions.html
I know
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post #66 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post
See that's the thing. My BluRay player has never stopped a movie due to limited bandwidth. I've never had any image quality downgrades.
Never a scratch? Never a fingerprint?

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post #67 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Never a scratch? Never a fingerprint?
Nope. I am anal about my media. It goes back to my laserdisc days. BUT... That's really a dumb scenario. If my discs were scratched that's my own carelessness. I can't, however, control my ISP.

Edited to add that YES I did have some serious playback issues with my HD-DVD discs but that's a dead issue now.
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post #68 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post
See that's the thing. My BluRay player has never stopped a movie due to limited bandwidth. I've never had any image quality downgrades.
I guess you never had bad disc that refused to play or had serious drop outs either.
BTW the reason for that mostly for authoring issues and the fact that Hollywood constantly try to break the BD standard in the name of copy protection, and forcing us to update the firmware.

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post #69 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Never a scratch? Never a fingerprint?
All of the discs in the over 2150 titles in my movie collection work perfectly, with the exception of some HD-DVD titles, but even if I eliminate ALL of the HD-DVD titles I have, that would still leave me with well over 2000 titles that work perfectly.
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post #70 of 133 Old 08-14-2015, 11:37 PM
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I guess you never had bad disc that refused to play or had serious drop outs either.
BTW the reason for that mostly for authoring issues and the fact that Hollywood constantly try to break the BD standard in the name of copy protection, and forcing us to update the firmware.
I can't think of a single BluRay that has given me an issue playing. I have pretty much used Oppo as long as I've been into BD with the exception of Panasonic in the beginning. And I added that I did have issues with HD-DVD but The format is dead so moot point.
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post #71 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post
I can't think of a single BluRay that has given me an issue playing. I have pretty much used Oppo as long as I've been into BD with the exception of Panasonic in the beginning. And I added that I did have issues with HD-DVD but The format is dead so moot point.
Lucky for you, but in reality there are lots of documented problems with BD titles, and Oppo players are not immune to them either, however they do have a better track record than some others, Nonetheless BD is far from a "perfect" but as I said it's largely the studio's fault.

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post #72 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
They are expected to have a large portion of the top 250 movies of all time in the coming weeks. Here's a quote from a recent PR from them:

"In addition to these advanced video quality playback technologies and driven by popular demand, UltraFlix will now support Electronic Sell-Through (EST), aka, purchases. With EST, UltraFlix users can access new releases sooner and buy and store them in the UltraFlix Cloud for unlimited playback and enjoyment. Later this summer UltraFlix will start offering hundreds of major studio blockbuster titles for EST and rental. Stay tuned for updates on additional TV and STB platform roll-outs over the next several weeks."

"Stay tuned..." It's straight up ad talk, for the "first kid on your block" crowd. This will be a dud.
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post #73 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Did you read the post? Ultraflix said "UltraFlix also offers users with 100 Mbps connections streaming quality identical to the new Ultra HD Blu-ray specifications." That's quite unambiguous.

This isn't clear. You tell us it has 4K performance, but doesn't have the same color gamut, or sonic features of even normal Blu-ray. Which way is it?
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post #74 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
Streaming will replace physical media.

Of course it will. Every home will be wired with high speed Internet access, with high speeds like FIOS or better, and unicorns will give rides to anyone at all to Leprechaun City free of charge. Until then, limp, partially amputated versions of UHD will be release in streaming mode.


Think it through.


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It may not be next week or next year, but it will replace it. Streaming services have gotten progressively better and once there is enough bandwidth for larger files to be transferred using little to no compression physical media won't survive. Certainly at this point in time, much of what we see in streaming isn't as good as physical media, but that can only last so long.

Physical media is cheap. Think about the overall cost of providing physical infrastructure to any given point (forget wireless access at the required speeds) and you can see how physical media is an incredible bargain.


Blu-ray players, essentially no different from UHD players, can be had in the $100 range. How much does it cost to set up infrastructure to do downloading, let along streaming? There is no certain knowledge that streaming will take over. It's a pipe dream, from people who want for you to pay for that pipe from content producer, all the way to your playback device, whether you're using it or not.


It's the cable TV scam all over again. You pay huge dollars for foreign language late-night infomercials, and you see this madness as inevitable? I think not, especially when such infrastructure simply isn't available in most places.


On demand downloading, taking hours, may exist somewhere. Streaming? Isn't happening now, and won't for a long, long time.
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post #75 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Never a scratch? Never a fingerprint?
Never a scratch for me, and fingerprints wash off of Blu discs, no problem.


Can't wash off bandwidths problems.
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post #76 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
This isn't clear. You tell us it has 4K performance, but doesn't have the same color gamut, or sonic features of even normal Blu-ray. Which way is it?
Of course it is BT.709 color. It's not P3 or HDR.
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post #77 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
Of course it will. Every home will be wired with high speed Internet access, with high speeds like FIOS or better, and unicorns will give rides to anyone at all to Leprechaun City free of charge. Until then, limp, partially amputated versions of UHD will be release in streaming mode.


Think it through.





Physical media is cheap. Think about the overall cost of providing physical infrastructure to any given point (forget wireless access at the required speeds) and you can see how physical media is an incredible bargain.


Blu-ray players, essentially no different from UHD players, can be had in the $100 range. How much does it cost to set up infrastructure to do downloading, let along streaming? There is no certain knowledge that streaming will take over. It's a pipe dream, from people who want for you to pay for that pipe from content producer, all the way to your playback device, whether you're using it or not.


It's the cable TV scam all over again. You pay huge dollars for foreign language late-night infomercials, and you see this madness as inevitable? I think not, especially when such infrastructure simply isn't available in most places.


On demand downloading, taking hours, may exist somewhere. Streaming? Isn't happening now, and won't for a long, long time.

Problem is that the general viewing public won't need a FIOS or a fiber connection to be satisfied. I stream Netflix in 4k at 15mbps and I think it looks damn good. Ultraflix can be streamed as low as 4mbps. Will UHD bluray be better quality at these speeds? obviously. Streaming services are already having a big impact on physical media and this will only get worse and it won't take everyone to have fiber before it happens. AV enthusiasts can only carry the market so long.
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post #78 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 05:41 AM
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I streamed Mad Max Fury Road last night and found the quality quite good, the audio is not blu ray but its still enjoyable. For the purists Im sure streaming wont do for some time, but for the masses it will be more than acceptable. Cord cutting is constantly growing, change is coming, the tech will catch up eventually.
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post #79 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
If you stream or download the exact same data you find on Ultra HD Blu-ray, then the quality will be the same. That too should be obvious. Also, who is ignoring the importance of high-quality audio?

Problem with streaming is that the bandwidth/bitrate is not guaranteed throughout the movie, bitrate may drop or the movie may even freeze for a moment due to connection issues.
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post #80 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Problem with streaming is that the bandwidth/bitrate is not guaranteed throughout the movie, bitrate may drop or the movie may even freeze for a moment due to connection issues.
Yes, that is the top issue with streaming, and it is why I wish streaming devices all had enough storage to hold an entire movie. 128 Gb SSDs are quite inexpensive these days. In effect, streaming should act like a download, even if that download can't be stored permanently. Viewers should have to option of when to start watching—I'd gladly let a UHD movie buffer for 10-15 minutes in order to assure a smooth viewing experience.
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post #81 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 09:48 AM
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I wonder what will be more common a year from now: Homes with 100+ Mbps Internet service and some sort of access to Vudu 4K, MGO 4K, Sony 4K, Ultraflix 4K, Netflix 4K, Amazon 4K, and who knows what else (hello Roku 4)... or a homes with a brand-new UHD/4K disc player and a shelf full of the new discs. I'm genuinely interested in the answer to that question.

Most likely the homes with 100 Mbps internet access, however how much of these homes are interested renting streaming UHD movies for $10 a piece?


I am sure the smaller number of people with a UHD Blu-ray player will buy many UHD discs as this will be largely the audience interested in watching and collecting high quality movies.
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post #82 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Most likely the homes with 100 Mbps internet access, however how much of these homes are interested renting streaming UHD movies for $10 a piece?


I am sure the smaller number of people with a UHD Blu-ray player will buy many UHD discs as this will be largely the audience interested in watching and collecting high quality movies.
I have to wonder, have all the major studios committed to releasing all (or at least most of) their movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray? Is this going to be a product that major retailers will put on shelves? That's an extreme stretch; I'm guessing Ultra HD Blu-ray will be an Amazon thing; i.e. you go to Amazon to buy it. Maybe someone will launch a by-mail disc rental service? Who knows.

I'm not convinced there are enough AV enthusiasts who do not have access to 100+ Mbps internet to make Ultra HD Blu-ray a runaway hit. And if that does not happen, why will studios go through the effort when digital distribution is so much easier?

I'm just asking, I'm not trying to predict the future. I'm just kind of baffled as to how the economics of this launch are supposed to work out. I really, truly hope that when CES rolls around I'm suddenly blown away by the format's reception.

But I also think the Ultra HD Blu-ray players may become the physical disc's own worst enemy. I expect these new players to have built-in UHD/4K streaming apps. I'm curious if the convenience (and early-release advantage) of streaming is going to erode disc sales, as people buy or rent directly through their shiny new machines.

Nevertheless, I accept I could be 100% mistaken. It could be the majority of Blu-ray buyers are seekers of the ultimate in quality, and will follow the path to superior bitrates, bit depths, dynamic range, frame rates, and color gamut. All of which will show up in the future, regardless of how the bits are distributed. I'd rather have more choices than fewer, that's good for everybody.

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post #83 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 02:43 PM
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The early release of movies has always somewhat puzzled me, I get the impression they are pushing the streaming or downloads. Ive personally bought several movies because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for the blu ray. They obviously have my number, curious how many other people have done the same.
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post #84 of 133 Old 08-15-2015, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I have to wonder, have all the major studios committed to releasing all (or at least most of) their movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray? Is this going to be a product that major retailers will put on shelves? That's an extreme stretch; I'm guessing Ultra HD Blu-ray will be an Amazon thing; i.e. you go to Amazon to buy it. Maybe someone will launch a by-mail disc rental service? Who knows.

*1 I'm not convinced there are enough AV enthusiasts who do not have access to 100+ Mbps internet to make Ultra HD Blu-ray a runaway hit. And if that does not happen, why will studios go through the effort when digital distribution is so much easier?

I'm just asking, I'm not trying to predict the future. I'm just kind of baffled as to how the economics of this launch are supposed to work out. I really, truly hope that when CES rolls around I'm suddenly blown away by the format's reception.

But I also think the Ultra HD Blu-ray players may become the physical disc's own worst enemy. I expect these new players to have built-in UHD/4K streaming apps. I'm curious if the convenience (and early-release advantage) of streaming is going to erode disc sales, as people buy or rent directly through their shiny new machines.

Nevertheless, I accept I could be 100% mistaken. *2 It could be the majority of Blu-ray buyers are seekers of the ultimate in quality, and will follow the path to superior bitrates, bit depths, dynamic range, frame rates, and color gamut. All of which will show up in the future, regardless of how the bits are distributed. I'd rather have more choices than fewer, that's good for everybody.
*1
I think it's time for a new poll. This one,https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...bandwidth.html, has become dated since it maxes out a 20Mbs and UHD streaming is now in the mix. What should it be? Maybe 20Mbps to 30Mbps, then 30Mbps to 45Mbps, then 45 to 65, then 65 to 100?
For me right now high quality streaming of UHD is out of the question, I have 9Mbs, more than fine for cable/sat replacement but it's still BDs for movies for me. Speeds from other less reliable providers maxes out at 25Mbs in my area. I haven't tried downloads because getting BDs from Netflix works so well for me but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to downloading or a long wait "buffering"/download.

*2,
indeed, and right now for me UHD BD looks like that path, but that path could change with download models that would work for me or faster internet providers but streaming right now would not work.

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Even if I would have 1,000 Mbps download speed and pay only $200/month I would still buy the Blu-ray with real hi def picture and hi res multichannel audio. The Blu is only $15 and it's a 3-disc set with a film slide in 70mm for you to keep for life. ...And upscale the pic to 4K with your BR player.

UltraFlix is in no way better pic wise (maybe very close though) and certainly not audio wise. ...And who knows if your internet wiseguy is not going to crash on you right in the middle of your streaming experience. ...Then be ready to do some serious screaming...and for what? An additional $10 on top of your $200 monthly payments. And it's just a rental from the cyber space.

Anyway it just don't really matter because 'Iinterstellar' is all about the Sound, and compressed stereo simply don't cut it...plus $10 is a rip-off, which augurs very bad for the new up-coming UHD Blu-rays...and the prices they are going to charge for them...what $50 for our most favorite titles? ...And $30 for the crappy ones?

You want my prediction, just based on this thread and few more? ...I tell ya, it ain't pink.

Hey, is cool man...I'm totally relaxed in sharing my opinion. ...It ain't the end of the world...yet. ...And we still have till December 25 to get into the spirit.
...Meanwhile, @ the end of this month, we'll all be watching Fury Road in 3D picture, on Blu-ray, and with Dolby Atmos audio (some folks anyway).
And if we lucky, there'll be the director's special version...black and white. ...No buffering, no internet speed deviation, no streaming with the risks involved for folks living high up in the mountains of the USA (beautiful, gorgeous), and no stress whatsoever. ...And with bass that pump your chest with gusto.
So, sit back, relax, and enjoy Max on Blu.
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post #86 of 133 Old 08-16-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
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Of course it is BT.709 color. It's not P3 or HDR.

Why "of course"? They can stream any way they like, at any compression rate, if it's to a computer.
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post #87 of 133 Old 08-16-2015, 07:34 AM
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I've somewhat changed my opinion on streaming. Generally I buy the bluray and use the UV code on vudu. This is a great setup and I hope it continues with 4k. However I think its a mistake to rely completely on these services until we are protected by law for continued access to our library in case these places go under. You can't even get all the studios to use UV and most tv shows aren't on it either. The consumer isn't the one holding things up. At the very least they should figure out how to provide a downloadable file.
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post #88 of 133 Old 08-16-2015, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
Problem is that the general viewing public won't need a FIOS or a fiber connection to be satisfied.

The general public won't even have 4K, and if they do, they may hook it up to a sound bar speaker. It will be a while before 4K catches on, and the things that will kill it are:
  1. Lousy streaming solutions that look no better than current streaming and video.
  2. No advanced sound premium.
  3. Very high cost, "boutique" pricing with no premium content.
The usual way they hustle this junk is to offer some marginal releases at lower cost, and premium releases at very high cost, so they can have a "lots of movies, at whatever price you want to pay! (Big Smile! Big Smile)" message. But there won't be much in 4K at the outset.


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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
I stream Netflix in 4k at 15mbps and I think it looks damn good.

Are you ready to pay $10 per movie, in stereo? After all, you think it looks damn good. I'm just wondering if it looks $10 each for a rental damn good. But only in stereo, mind you. I guess in 5.1 it would be $15, or the sky is the limit in lossless. Atmos and DTS:X? The technology is not there yet, they will say.
It wouldn't sound good on your sound bar, anyway.


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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
Ultraflix can be streamed as low as 4mbps.

The way the general public sees HD, movies can be streamed in standard definition at 1080i, or in 480p for that matter. How many times have you heard that there is no difference between DVD and Blu-ray? Most people don't give a standard damn about high resolution, so why supply it to them in any format?


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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
Will UHD bluray be better quality at these speeds? obviously.

But using your logic, who actually cares? If the public just wants an alphabet soup of standards, marginally met by some streaming method, what is the point of using them at all? No HDR, no widened color gamut, why even bother? Just stay at 1080i, and not worry about it, instead of choking down a $10 rental for a partially amputated movie.


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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
Streaming services are already having a big impact on physical media and this will only get worse and it won't take everyone to have fiber before it happens.

I watch streaming services myself, when I don't want to pay a premium for mediocre content. Watching the average Well Go release, or marginal detective movie, doesn't require expensive disc purchases.


But a premium movie is something different. And as far as "it won't take everyone to have fiber before it happens," just remember that almost everyone has a slow connection. If a significant proportion of them choke the bandwidth of what's currently available, you will not see premium content dumbed down for all of them.


You'll see substandard, squished feeds, for everybody, that don't look "damn good".


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Originally Posted by Jmhockey23 View Post
AV enthusiasts can only carry the market so long.

That sounds happily contemptuous. Is Blu-ray dead yet? I hadn't heard.
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post #89 of 133 Old 08-16-2015, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
Why "of course"? They can stream any way they like, at any compression rate, if it's to a computer.
Because that's the color standard TVs currently use. Streaming HDR is just a couple months away (Vudu with Dolby Vision) but for now, you wouldn't use any color space but BT.709 if the stream is intended to be watched on a TV.

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Last edited by imagic; 08-16-2015 at 10:51 AM.
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post #90 of 133 Old 08-16-2015, 10:47 AM
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My 10mb/s connection is throttled to 3-4mb/s when watching content now it seems. Also received a warning about data caps coming soon. Bluray getting cheaper and streaming getting more expensive. Interesting.
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