Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) / Atmos over HDMI ARC - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 807 Old 06-30-2017, 07:10 AM
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My Australian Sony Z9D received the Android 7.0 update today, and I'm now getting consistent Dolby Digital + bitstream output via HDMI-ARC from the built-in Netflix and Amazon Prime apps into my Yamaha receiver.

This bodes well for the eventual rollout of Netflix's Dolby Atmos audio to more devices.
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post #242 of 807 Old 06-30-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
I'm going to hazard a guess that the crux of this is that Vizio isn't paying the license fee to Dolby for Atmos, whereas LG is and have branded their TVs as such. The bitstreaming of Atmos over the ARC connection is really the only advantage gleaned from an "Atmos" TV. [Ref my other editorials on this matter]

I'm not familiar with the backbone of Android casting, but if it works like Airplay, there would be potential limitations in how the streams are processed. In some instances of Airplay, the casting device does all the decoding and sends only a 2ch ALAC stream of pre-decoded audio. In most cases though, the casting device serves up a web address for the target device to "fetch" from, which is a better way to go about it, and would permit the target device to get at the undecimated bitstream with the Atmos sprinkles in it. But at this point, that Device needs to be paying Dolby's fee to then re-direct that Atmos bitstream over its ARC connection (as per my hypothesis). Unlike a device such as a UHD or BD player which can send the bitstream directly over HDMI without even being aware of the presence of Atmos sprinkles.

But the good news is that external streaming devices (rokus, shields, ATVs, etc) tend to outpace the capabilities of our “Smart” TVs and for modest cost they free us of the limitations of ARC, let us connect direct to our AVRs, and get our AVR overlays and Atmos bistreams, and we are none the worse for not using the native client apps of our TVs.
Interesting hypothesis but quickly disproven by the fact that it's already possible to cast DD+/Atmos-enabled content from Vudu to Vizio displays. The Vizio displays pass such bitstreams over ARC unmolested and connected AVRs are able to decode these bitstreams properly as DD+/Atmos. In other words, if there were an Atmos licensing fee to be paid, Vizio's already paid it.

At this point it seems like it's an arbitrary limitation imposed by Netflix to keep Atmos capability exclusive to LG and Microsoft in the near term.

The beauty of Vizio's SmartCast system is that it's not based on a client app that lives on the TV. Rather, it leverages existing mobile platforms to provide its pseudo "Smart TV" capabilities. I'd even bet that the iOS/Android Netflix clients receive the highest priority for updates...higher than that of external streaming boxes.
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post #243 of 807 Old 06-30-2017, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Interesting hypothesis but quickly disproven by the fact that it's already possible to cast DD+/Atmos-enabled content from Vudu to Vizio displays. The Vizio displays pass such bitstreams over ARC unmolested and connected AVRs are able to decode these bitstreams properly as DD+/Atmos.
Ah, then I'm sure it'll be delivered in time, whenever the client apps get the necessary updates to enable the passthrough. If there is any sort of exclusivity deal happening, I'm sure it's timed exclusive. Netflix is in the business of selling netflix subscriptions first and foremost. Enraging a section of its user-base by restricting who can get the Atmos sprinkles doesn't seem in line with their MO.
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post #244 of 807 Old 07-04-2017, 09:00 AM
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Hey guys,

I just bought a LG 65C7P and unfortunately my Denon X4100W does not have HDCP 2.2, so I am forced to connect my nVidia Shield and PS4 Pro directly to the TV and use ARC.

I setup everything and when playing a 4K show Netflix show on the nVidia Shield, my X4100W shows on the display:

DOLBY D + +DDS

It also shows an active 5.1 channel setup (I currently do not have my side surrounds installed).

I am attaching a photo of the display.

Is it safe to say that I will be able to pass DTS MA through ARC when using the Kodi app on the nVididea Shield?

Or will I eventually have to get a HDCP 2.2 compatible AVR if I want to enjoy DTS MA audio?

TIA
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post #245 of 807 Old 07-04-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Hey guys,

I just bought a LG 65C7P and unfortunately my Denon X4100W does not have HDCP 2.2, so I am forced to connect my nVidia Shield and PS4 Pro directly to the TV and use ARC.

I setup everything and when playing a 4K show Netflix show on the nVidia Shield, my X4100W shows on the display:

DOLBY D + +DDS

It also shows an active 5.1 channel setup (I currently do not have my side surrounds installed).

I am attaching a photo of the display.

Is it safe to say that I will be able to pass DTS MA through ARC when using the Kodi app on the nVididea Shield?

Or will I eventually have to get a HDCP 2.2 compatible AVR if I want to enjoy DTS MA audio?

TIA
DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD cannot bitstream over ARC. Not enough bandwidth. This will be enabled with eARC, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 spec. eARC is implemented differently in hardware to ARC.

ARC supports 2ch LPCM, as well as lossy multichannel codegs: Regular DD, DD+ and DTS. The DD+ bitstream can hold a 7.1 stream and Atmos, but still in lossy quality audio.

As a side note, it doesn't have anything to do with HDCP 2.2. ARC is negotiated separately from the copy protection in the HDMI handshake, but it still only supports what it can within its limitations. This is why most UHD BD Players will have a secondary HDMI out to send direct to the AVR, so that you can get your lossless audio off the shiny disc, and your 4k HDR on your shiny new TV.
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post #246 of 807 Old 07-06-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acefr View Post
If your PC has both Display Port and HDMI, you can get a DP to HDMI converter to get the 2nd HDMI out for lossless sound.
Does this actually work? I've never tried it but that's definitely what I'll do if it does.
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post #247 of 807 Old 07-09-2017, 05:51 PM
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Is the Denon x3200w compatible or just the x3300? Is anyone able to confirm?
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post #248 of 807 Old 07-09-2017, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightthief View Post
Is the Denon x3200w compatible or just the x3300? Is anyone able to confirm?
I think it's safe to say that any AVR from the last 5 or so years, that supports DD+ as well as ARC, also supports DD+ over ARC.

TVs, on the other hand, is a different, much sadder story.
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post #249 of 807 Old 07-10-2017, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
Does this actually work? I've never tried it but that's definitely what I'll do if it does.
I did not personally try it, but some forum members have done it and it works for them.
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post #250 of 807 Old 07-12-2017, 12:26 PM
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so are there any streaming boxes that can support EVERYTHING? or only an UHD Bluray player with smart apps?

I have a C7P w Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR with 7.1.2 speakers setup. I want Dolby Vision+Atmos and everything in between. What is solution for streaming VUDU/NETFLIX/ETC....
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post #251 of 807 Old 07-16-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
so are there any streaming boxes that can support EVERYTHING? or only an UHD Bluray player with smart apps?

I have a C7P w Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR with 7.1.2 speakers setup. I want Dolby Vision+Atmos and everything in between. What is solution for streaming VUDU/NETFLIX/ETC....
Im still waiting for this. Its very frustrating choosing between dv and atmos. My bet is the shield will probably be first... nothing reported, but just seems like the one closest. It can pass lossless audio from my nas, and given the video pedigree and the Chromecast core of the shield (which i understand does support dv), feels like the smallest leap.

I have the oppo 203 - does both for shiny disks, but no apps.

Roku and shield both do atmos, no dv.

Lg tv does dv, no atmos.

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post #252 of 807 Old 07-16-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Spinningbull View Post
Im still waiting for this. Its very frustrating choosing between dv and atmos. My bet is the shield will probably be first... nothing reported, but just seems like the one closest. It can pass lossless audio from my nas, and given the video pedigree and the Chromecast core of the shield (which i understand does support dv), feels like the smallest leap.

I have the oppo 203 - does both for shiny disks, but no apps.

Roku and shield both do atmos, no dv.

Lg tv does dv, no atmos.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk
The 2017 LG's don't do DD+/Lossy Atmos?

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post #253 of 807 Old 07-16-2017, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcguinn View Post
The 2017 LG's don't do DD+/Lossy Atmos?


They do. For the built in apps over ARC.
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post #254 of 807 Old 07-16-2017, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcguinn View Post
The 2017 LG's don't do DD+/Lossy Atmos?
Sadly, i have a 2016 lg

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post #255 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rajdawar View Post
They do. For the built in apps over ARC.
Thanks. I have a C7 but haven’t set up my AVR yet.

So if I set up the following:
UHD Bluray connected to HDMI2 of C7
C7 connected via HDMI1(ARC) to AVR
(AVR is 50 feet way in another room)

If I play a 4K Blu-ray, will the audio be sent to the AVR via ARC?

I thought lossy audio (even Atmos) would be sent to the AVR...

(The AVR is an Onkyo TX-NR870)

Thanks.

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post #256 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MoG View Post
Thanks. I have a C7 but haven’t set up my AVR yet.

So if I set up the following:
UHD Bluray connected to HDMI2 of C7
C7 connected via HDMI1(ARC) to AVR
(AVR is 50 feet way in another room)

If I play a 4K Blu-ray, will the audio be sent to the AVR via ARC?

I thought lossy audio (even Atmos) would be sent to the AVR...

(The AVR is an Onkyo TX-NR870)

Thanks.
Assuming the Onkyo support DD+ over ARC then your next problem is finding a 50' HDMI cable that supports ARC at that distance.

Check out this thread for long HDMI cable experiences:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...hdmi-2-0b.html

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post #257 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 09:34 AM
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Thanks Rich.

I’m going to use the Monoprice Blackbird balun to get the ARC over that distance. It says it supports 1080p over 150’ and 4K 4:4:4 over 70’.

Between the c7 built in apps and UHD player, my 4K sources are all at (or in!) the TV.

I dropped the ball in being able to get lossless audio to my AVR, but i should hopefully get DD+.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens when all the components are connected!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Assuming the Onkyo support DD+ over ARC then your next problem is finding a 50' HDMI cable that supports ARC at that distance.

Check out this thread for long HDMI cable experiences:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...hdmi-2-0b.html

- Rich

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post #258 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoG View Post
I dropped the ball in being able to get lossless audio to my AVR, but i should hopefully get DD+.
ARC does not support lossless and there are no processors available that support lossless over ARC. That is coming in HDMI 2.1...someday.

Once HDMI 2.1 arrives, the search for cables that support it begins.

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post #259 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 01:02 PM
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I'm currently looking at many of the newest receiver releases from Onkyo, Yamaha and others and I'm mostly not seeing Dolby Digital Plus listed on them. In one case, a comparison between an older Yamaha and a newer one listed Dolby Digital Plus for the older model (Yamaha TX-RX810 which shows "Atmos, TrueHD, DD Plus" for Dolby Decoder), but shows no such thing on the newer version (Yamaha TX-RX820 which shows "Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Surround" for Dolby Decoder) when you compare. Are the newer models incompatible with DD+ or are they simply throwing that under a generic Dolby or Atmos heading (since Atmos can work within Plus and it's the big name to throw around?) I know Apple iTunes and Netflix make use of Dolby Digital Plus so I'd hate to get a newer receiver and have no support for that mode.
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post #260 of 807 Old 07-17-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I'm currently looking at many of the newest receiver releases from Onkyo, Yamaha and others and I'm mostly not seeing Dolby Digital Plus listed on them. In one case, a comparison between an older Yamaha and a newer one listed Dolby Digital Plus for the older model (Yamaha TX-RX810 which shows "Atmos, TrueHD, DD Plus" for Dolby Decoder), but shows no such thing on the newer version (Yamaha TX-RX820 which shows "Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Surround" for Dolby Decoder) when you compare. Are the newer models incompatible with DD+ or are they simply throwing that under a generic Dolby or Atmos heading (since Atmos can work within Plus and it's the big name to throw around?) I know Apple iTunes and Netflix make use of Dolby Digital Plus so I'd hate to get a newer receiver and have no support for that mode.
if a receiver decodes Atmos/DOlby True HD, it will also decode DD+.
if there is a receiver out there that doesn't do this, I know I wouldn't touch it.

Look in the manual. That should show all the formats it can decode.

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post #261 of 807 Old 07-19-2017, 08:38 AM
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Through an upgrade of would it be possible for the older models TVs (such as the Samsung JU7500) to become compatible with dolby digital plus ??
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post #262 of 807 Old 07-20-2017, 10:38 AM
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Hi!! I'm owner of a Super UHD LG 2016 (UH850V)

What about them?

any chances to get a update and join DD+/atmos through TV?
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post #263 of 807 Old 07-24-2017, 10:08 AM
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Which Denon receiver(s)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
I think it's safe to say that any AVR from the last 5 or so years, that supports DD+ as well as ARC, also supports DD+ over ARC.

TVs, on the other hand, is a different, much sadder story.
Scarbaeus: Well after reading multiple messages about Atmos thru Arc, and trying to understand the technical side of it, its even more confusing, So, I going to ask you more towards a personal question:
I have a Panasonic TC -P65VT60 plasma TV, with an older Denon receiver, which needs to be replaced. I am set up for 5-1, but want to go to 7.1 by adding 2 atmos speakers. So flat out, which new Denon receiver(s) would you suggest to resolve this issue of Atmos thru Arc? I orginally was looking at at Denon AVR 1300 but am willing to go up.
Or should I go down to a AVR 710W? Any recommendations would be appreciated.


Thanks
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post #264 of 807 Old 07-24-2017, 11:48 AM
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I started a broader Atmos/Plex question on this thread...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...ream-plex.html

But I'd like to nail down one question more specific to this thread, will my new Vizio e70 pass DD+/Atmos or DTS-HD(X?) to my Samsung HW-K850 over Arc from cast services like Vudu, Netflix, Plex etc? I don't see the E Series in the OP list, was just wondering if nobody had tested or it's just not an E Series feature?
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post #265 of 807 Old 07-28-2017, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #266 of 807 Old 07-28-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
Nope....firts was denon x3400h through a firmware update on september:

http://hometheaterreview.com/denon-d...h-av-receiver/
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post #267 of 807 Old 07-28-2017, 10:09 PM
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Does anyone else have experience with Monoprice Blackbird HDBaseT baluns?

I have this one: https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21668

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post #268 of 807 Old 07-31-2017, 10:19 AM
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Hello all (I am getting desperate, please help!

I have a LG OLED65b7V / Anthem MRX 720-problem... Here goes...

I just bought a new LG OLED65b7V (I think the US model is the OLED65B7P) and I have trouble with the sound settings (in the built in TV apps, Netflix, YouTube etc.). My receiver is the Anthem MRX 720 and it’s connected to the TV through HDMI ARC in a 5.1 setup.

If I choose ”PCM” in the ”Digital output” setting on the TV, then there will be no sound from the center speaker, the surround back speakers etc. The display on the Anthem MRX 720 will read ”2.0 PCM” in this setting). On the Anthem I can then choose “Dolby Surround” via the “Mode” button and now sound will be produced from all the speakers. But, shouldn’t the receiver switch to the correct surround mode automatically?

Another question, as I “force” the receiver to be playing in surround mode – is it then “correct” surround sound I am hearing (or just an “imitated” one)?

If I choose ”Automatic” in the ”Digital output” setting on the TV (which I understand is bit stream sound), then there will be sound from all the speakers and the display now reads ”Dolby D+ 3/2”). But, the sound stutters/stops every 15 to 20 seconds. In this setting the display on the receiver switches between ”No signal”, ”Dolby D+ 3/2”, ”No signal” etc.

If I run Netflix from my PlayStation 4 instead then the display on the receiver will read “Multi PCM” (and not ”2.0 PCM”) and sound will be (correctly) produced from all the speakers. So, why this difference in sound between the built in WebOS 3.0 TV apps and the PlayStation 4 apps? As I see it, the PlayStation 4 apps works as intended?

What am I doing wrong here? In the TV/receiver settings I can’t see any settings which could fix the problem.

Any advice (settings on the TV and the receiver to try out etc.) are more than welcome!

Best regards
Jonas
Porfyren is offline  
post #269 of 807 Old 08-02-2017, 08:43 PM
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Hi Porfyren,

I think your understanding is pretty correct. This is a perfect example for how imperfect and half-baked the modern equipment sometimes is. I think the best way in your case would be to report the problem to the LG support guys (with little hope though).

As for PS4, if it's wired directly to AVR then it doesn't use ARC so there is no two channel limitation for PCM. It seems your PS4 decodes the sound internally and sends it to the AVR over HDMI as PCM 5.1 and because of that your AVR displays "Multu-PCM".

WBR.
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post #270 of 807 Old 08-04-2017, 12:44 AM
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Hi guy's, thanks for this thread its really informative and helpfull.

I just bought a LG C7 and im looking for a soundbar wich can pass the tv's internal netflix app's DD+ signal, i dont wanna lose Dolby Vision by using and external device's app.

My first pick right now is the yamaha yps-2700 but im unsure if it supports DD+ over arc,
one person on the avforum posted his Sony tv's netflix app signal comes as DD+ on the 2700's display but display's arent always accurate between input/output.

Anybody with a compatible tv and an yps-2700 that can confirm DD+ passthrough between the two over ARC?


Lg's own atmos soundbar the SJ9 is capable of sending even Atmos over arc but i've read multiple threads of sound delay's when using the ARC function from exteranl devices hooked up to your tv like shield and ps4 pro etc,
the tv's own netflix app has no delay but al external arc device's do and since the SJ9 has only one hdmi in port i dont feel like switching cables or buying a splitter.

Thanks and sorry for the grammar and spelling, not my native language
RickSomething is offline  
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