Official ROKU 4K (HDR) Premiere +/Ultra Owners Thread - Page 318 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9511 of 11921 Old 06-30-2018, 05:32 PM
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My initial impressions of the Roku OS 8.1 update were very good. But I haven't used it much to test for audio consistency/reliability.

I can say framerate auto switching is less buggy and I don't seem to have a Roku sleep issue.

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post #9512 of 11921 Old 06-30-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
My ATV 4K can't even bitsream anything. At least my Rokus can.
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I had no idea that the Apple TV 4K couldn't bitstream audio to my AVR. Glad I learned it in time. That failing is a dealbreaker for me and will remain one until and unless Apple adds bitstream support. Surprising how much more appealing my Premiere+ just became.
Exactly why I use the Roku for all of my streaming needs except iTunes Movies, which is really only when the kids watch something that is iTunes-only (I'll always watch the disk for any movie I watch ,for the lossless audio ); even they go to VUDU first, then to the ATV if they can't find what they're looking for.
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post #9513 of 11921 Old 06-30-2018, 11:16 PM
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After pulling the power on my Ultra, the audio did return for the single TV episode I watched last night on Amazon. It's the 2nd reset I've performed since the firmware upgrade was received two days ago.
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post #9514 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 10:46 AM
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Long time reader first time poster.

The reasoning regarding audio codecs for the ROKU and against the AppleTV doesn't stand up under scrutiny.

There are no on line streaming services that stream high def lossless audio. So the knocking the AppleTV cause it doesn't bitstream is irrelevant.

Somewhere in the chain some device has to transcode the audio. Just cause the AppleTV does instead of seeing the little light on your receiver that says your receiver is, that is not a valid criticism of the AppleTV. The audio is the same coming out the speakers.

Local "streaming" off an NAS? Even in that setting it depends on what audio is in the video archive. At that MrMc and Infuse on the AppleTV has done some work in the HD audio on the AppleTV which works starting with the 4th and now 5th generation.

If you like the ROKU over the AppleTV that's your business and good for you. But at least have a reason that makes sense.

Atmos via DD+ is working just fine and at the same level, non-HD audio, as the ROKU.

If you want the highest level audio as others have pointed out in several places on this forum use the disk. You shouldn't be trying to reach that goal via streaming in the first place.
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post #9515 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 10:54 AM
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We use Roku Ultra (OS 8.1.0 - 4137) primarily for YouTube TV, Amazon Prime & Netflix. Both Amazon Prime & Netflix never crash but YouTube TV does, mostly when first launching or changing to a different channel. First you get the circular pattern on black screen indicating it's buffering but then goes to all black screen. I have to exit to home, then reselect & eventually it works fine. Our internet is 25mbs.

Anyone else?

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post #9516 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 11:05 AM
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In fact if I want multi-channel audio consistently off Amazon Prime I use my Sony X800 to stream it. The audio buried in Amazon Prime streams for both the ROKU and the AppleTV is often only stereo. For some reason on my Sony Amazon Prime is always multi-channel and it is of course PCM sent to my receiver.

DD+ being converted at the AppleTV or via bitstream at the receiver for SOME audio streams using the ROKU ends up at the same place, A+B=C.

Saying the only reason you use the ROKU is because it can bitstream some audio codecs misrepresents what's really going on with this technology.

I'm done now... back to the shadows.
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post #9517 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson-from-Arizona View Post
In fact if I want multi-channel audio consistently off Amazon Prime I use my Sony X800 to stream it. The audio buried in Amazon Prime streams for both the ROKU and the AppleTV is often only stereo. For some reason on my Sony Amazon Prime is always multi-channel and it is of course PCM sent to my receiver.

DD+ being converted at the AppleTV or via bitstream at the receiver for SOME audio streams using the ROKU ends up at the same place, A+B=C.

Saying the only reason you use the ROKU is because it can bitstream some audio codecs misrepresents what's really going on with this technology.

I'm done now... back to the shadows.
Let me explain why to me at least, the ATV4K's inability to bitstream audio makes it a non-starter in my lineup. I connect all audio to be passed via my AVR, which when it receives that audio via bitstream, shows the codec being used on my AVR's display. That the ATV4K would make me guess at the codec being used disqualifies it from my consideration. I know that the audio sent to my speakers may be the same without bitstream as it is with it, but I want to see what is happening. It's a matter of personal preference.

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post #9518 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 02:05 PM
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I might add that streaming from my local media server is for convenience. I don't have to find the disc and put it in the player, then wait for the player to load it up. I can instead select the desired media on the screen and have it playing within seconds. Also, when the video ends, the next one in line will play. With custom playlists that I have created, we then have a string of continuous playback of media that we are interested in watching, or at the least listen to in the background.

Since all of my media ripped from Blu Ray or UHD BD, I would prefer to have the full lossless audio experience during playback. It obviously has no need for when I'm using my Roku TV or Smart TV players, as they aren't capable of sending a lossless bitstream to an AVR. But when using a Roku, ATV, Fire TV, or similar device that is connected to a capable AVR, I want the best soundtrack available.
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post #9519 of 11921 Old 07-01-2018, 07:13 PM
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Updated to the latest firmware. No issues to report. One thing that resolved was the flickering on YouTube when it played HDR videos. Don't know about any other other issues but I'm still loving my +.

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post #9520 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 03:13 AM
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Morning all,
After doing some digging into my standby issues with ROKU OS 8.1 I've come up with some specifics I can now report to ROKU, and if anyone else here is still having the issues also feel free to test this for yourself so I can get more feedback from just my own setup.


First off: It's an HDMI related issue preventing the ROKU from sleeping correctly when the TV is turned off.


One of the things I noted when comparing my TV to the monitor when doing testing was the HDMI version used.


The Monitor is 1080p only, meaning HDMI 1.4 the TV is HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2
With this in mind I set the ROKU to a 1080p display setting and bingo, it went to sleep and stayed asleep after the power to the TV was turned off.
Next I tried [email protected] without HDR, and that also seems to be working. My guess is ROKU's bug(s) here are related to HDR (as many have been)


There also seems to be flaky behavior with the screensaver too. Setting the wait time to 1 minute seems to entail normal behavior meaning the unit stays asleep until a button on the remote is pressed. Setting it above 1 minute say 5, or greater keeps it asleep while everything is off, but wakes it up simply by turning on the TV. I just noticed that it could be anything with HDCP 2.2 that triggers the standby bug, as it woke and then went back to sleep.


Either way try some of what I have been doing if you have the same problems.


Either set it to a 1080 display or 4k only display setting when shutting down. When watching content 4k / HDR works fine.


Ideally, ROKU needs to fix these bugs, but as a work around I don't mind setting it to a different display res to sleep at and then use the res I need when watching stuff. I could leave it at 1080 and be happy since i have other HDR compatible devices until the bugs are fixed, personally.l


I'm going to pass this info on to ROKU so hopefully it I've narrowed it down enough to make it easier for them to find.


I'd rather set the display res instead of having the unit never standby correctly.
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post #9521 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 04:11 AM
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@MacinMan ,


If it helps, since this latest firmware update both my 2016 Ultra and Premiere automatically turn on when I first power up my system -- that did not happen in the past. I did turn off CEC on both boxes, but it didn't make a difference. Eventually the light goes off on each box, but it's definitely a new behavior.



I did not use the Ultra yesterday, so do not know if the no audio issue came back or not.
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post #9522 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
First off: It's an HDMI related issue preventing the ROKU from sleeping correctly when the TV is turned off.
Since the reboot after the update, I have not seen the screen saver. I have CEC disabled on every device. My Ultra feeds an AVR. I need to check the LED since I have the unit where the LED is not visible. I only stream Amazon and have not had any audio problems.
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post #9523 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
Since the reboot after the update, I have not seen the screen saver. I have CEC disabled on every device. My Ultra feeds an AVR. I need to check the LED since I have the unit where the LED is not visible. I only stream Amazon and have not had any audio problems.
I've found the menu to turn that LED off, but the setting doesn't stick past a reboot. The operation of the Unit has been normal, as I've said before this seems to only affect idle time, and being security conscious, and having a background in computers and knowing that the ROKU is also an internet of things device, any bugs like this put up a red flag for me so I stay onto of it usually until I know what's going on, and it's fixed, or if it's not fixed and it's dangerous then I stop using the device until it is.
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post #9524 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 05:52 AM
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I've found the menu to turn that LED off, but the setting doesn't stick past a reboot. The operation of the Unit has been normal, as I've said before this seems to only affect idle time, and being security conscious, and having a background in computers and knowing that the ROKU is also an internet of things device, any bugs like this put up a red flag for me so I stay onto of it usually until I know what's going on, and it's fixed, or if it's not fixed and it's dangerous then I stop using the device until it is.
I just checked the LED. It is off until I select the Roku, so the screen saver seems to be stopped when it detects some HDMI activity. I miss my fish tank.
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post #9525 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 05:58 AM
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I just checked the LED. It is off until I select the Roku, so the screen saver seems to be stopped when it detects some HDMI activity. I miss my fish tank.
That's how it works when I set the display to 1080, if I try to set it to an HDR mode, the ROKU does idle while the TV is on, but turn the TV off, and it wakes up and it won't sleep. So that part of the problem is HDCP 2.2 related.

The Roku was much better without CEC at all, ever since, they added it, it's had various issues. I thin the Roku 4 was the ONLY one they did right when it comes to that. You could actually shut it down, or put it in a REAL standby mode.


I'm personally ok if they want to change the behavior so the ROKU is ready when activity is detected when the TV is turned on, but when it doesn't idle at all, they should either fix it or just remove the screensaver since it's not working right anyway.
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post #9526 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 06:32 AM
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I'm personally ok if they want to change the behavior so the ROKU is ready when activity is detected when the TV is turned on, but when it doesn't idle at all, they should either fix it or just remove the screensaver since it's not working right anyway.
That begs to ask, why even have a screen saver? But it does turn the LED off after my inactivity setting. CEC is hard to make work right. Everything goes through my AVR and I don't mind having a bunch of remotes.

I don't have 4k. Yet.
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post #9527 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
That begs to ask, why even have a screen saver? But it does turn the LED off after my inactivity setting. CEC is hard to make work right. Everything goes through my AVR and I don't mind having a bunch of remotes.

I don't have 4k. Yet.
If you don't have 4k, might as well have kept a ROKU 3 around, those were rock solid, and really, they aren't that much slower then the Ultra, especially for HD. I have a 2016 stick which has the R3 hardware inside. It's really not a bad device for HD.

CEC works ok for the Sony Player(s) and the Apple TV, and under the previous version of ROKU OS 8.0.1 build 4090 it wasn't bad. This new release has a bunch of bugs when it comes to HDMI activity that show up different ways for different people.
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post #9528 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I just checked the LED. It is off until I select the Roku, so the screen saver seems to be stopped when it detects some HDMI activity. I miss my fish tank.
Yeah I don't see the Fish Tank screen saver anymore when my Roku wakes (LED comes on). I do get the screen saver after inactivity though.

Edit: I see this new behavior on my 2016 Ultra and my 2017 Stick Plus, both with 8.1.0 firmware.
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post #9529 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 09:45 AM
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I don't see the post from @Scott M I just got in email
@naustin : I'm ok with the Roku waking up when stuff turns on, but would it make you suspicious if the Roku Turned ON when you turn the TV OFF and not go back to sleep?

I thought setting it to HDCP 1.4 was the fix for now, but it doesn't seem to be, it's started doing it again. The ONE thing that stops it is to disconnect the HDMI cable from the Roku after turning the TV off.

CEC se3ttings ON/OFF on either TV, or ROKU don't make a difference here for this particular problem.

Both the Premiere+, and 2017 Ultra have the exact same problems. even after a Factory reset.

I'm just saying the part about the ROKU staying awake after the TV is powered OFF vs going idle when not in use While the TV is ON, isn't normal behavior and that's what I want to see fixed. That's also what I've reported to ROKU. As far as streaming, I haven't seen any errors in that area of use.
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post #9530 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 10:08 AM
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@MacinMan do you have both your Rokus on a switch? If so try the Roku w/o the switch as a test. I know you don't mind tests. Good luck.
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post #9531 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
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@MacinMan do you have both your Rokus on a switch? If so try the Roku w/o the switch as a test. I know you don't mind tests. Good luck.
@naustin , not a problem, to answer your question, the setup being addressed here, is not switched, it's a direct HDMI connection from the TV to the ROKU. My Switched setup no longer has a ROKU connected in there.

So, unless I include the information, We are talking a direct connection here when talking about these problems.
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post #9532 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 11:25 AM
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@naustin : I'm doing some further testing, but It's possible I found out what was going on, and if I'm right, it appears to be a conflict between a setting I can make on the Sony TV and what the ROKU wants.


My TV has the ability to set ports to auto hide / disable based on if they have an active device connected or not. If i'm correct, setting this to always be on, instead of auto, then restarting android, may have fixed 2 issues waiting for the Roku to idle with my usual screen saver to confirm.


I'm getting more reliable and consistent results now, but still two different sets:




1. It seems to be staying asleep now
2. If I start the screensaver while TV is on (eg, it goes idle) Roku stays in screen saver until manually woke up.
3. If screensaver activates while TV is off turning on TV seems to wake ROKU, but that was after i changed the screensaver from:
LED clock and weather, back to photo collage.


So, apparently ROKU can't deal with the auto port enable / disable feature of the TV with the new firmware. It may have activated to keep the port alive after the TV was off.
Hard to say for sure, but I'll give it more time to prove itself fixed.
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post #9533 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
That begs to ask, why even have a screen saver? But it does turn the LED off after my inactivity setting. CEC is hard to make work right. Everything goes through my AVR and I don't mind having a bunch of remotes.

I don't have 4k. Yet.
When I was using a bunch of remotes, HDMI-CEC worked great in my setups with the ROkus and other devices. But since I got a couple of Harmony Hubs and remotes, I've turned off HDMi-CEC on the ROkus and most of my other devices,
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post #9534 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 12:16 PM
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When I was using a bunch of remotes, HDMI-CEC worked great in my setups with the ROkus and other devices. But since I got a couple of Harmony Hubs and remotes, I've turned off HDMi-CEC on the ROkus and most of my other devices,
Hi I must be blind but I cannot find a. Setting for turning Cecil on and off on my roku ultra (2017).

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post #9535 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 12:24 PM
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Hi I must be blind but I cannot find a. Setting for turning Cecil on and off on my roku ultra (2017).
it's under settings:System:Control other devices:1-Click Play, uncheck the box.
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post #9536 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 12:26 PM
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I just hooked up the Roku Ultra to my TV and all the front of the Roku is doing is blinking.

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post #9537 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 12:31 PM
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it's under settings:System:Control other devices:1-Click Play, uncheck the box.
Thank you

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post #9538 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 12:39 PM
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I just hooked up the Roku Ultra to my TV and all the front of the Roku is doing is blinking.

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Never mind, my screw up.

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post #9539 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 02:41 PM
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Well after doing some more testing, the issue seems to be random and with the ROKU OS itself. I can get it to sleep, but will only stay asleep long term if hte TV is on. Nothing I've changed or tried solves the issue long term. Going to have to wait for Roku to fix it.


The good news is, I put the Premiere+ back in the bedroom on the switched setup, and it will stay asleep as long as the ROKU's HDMI port is not the active port selected in the switch when not in use. Not sure what's going on with the 4k Setup. All other HDMI devices work correctly both actively and inactively.
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post #9540 of 11921 Old 07-02-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
Well after doing some more testing, the issue seems to be random and with the ROKU OS itself. I can get it to sleep, but will only stay asleep long term if hte TV is on. Nothing I've changed or tried solves the issue long term. Going to have to wait for Roku to fix it.


The good news is, I put the Premiere+ back in the bedroom on the switched setup, and it will stay asleep as long as the ROKU's HDMI port is not the active port selected in the switch when not in use. Not sure what's going on with the 4k Setup. All other HDMI devices work correctly both actively and inactively.
I've noticed my Roku will come on or stay on for about 30 seconds if TV is turned on or off on the Roku HDMI input. The Roku Ultra on OS 8.1 isn't staying awake when not needed and won't wake if I'm using another HDMI input.

I did some input changes with Logitech Harmony to move to another HDMI input when leaving that activity or powering down. I did this mostly to test that Roku isn't waking when not needed; now it isn't, but still also sleeps within 30 seconds when used but no longer needed. With or without changes it would sleep within 30 seconds anyway.

I see less repeated input requests and screen flash and refresh this way. Before it was like a wrestling competition between ATV4K and Roku Ultra for screen dominance (input) each not wanting to give it up.

I have TV HDMI-CEC disabled but allow ATV4K to turn off TV using its sleep function. I could turn this off now since Logitech is handling better device sleep duties at the moment.

I settled the argument for now but I think it's possible that Roku OS 8.1 developers may have made changes to squash HDCP errors.

Couple of suggestions though, have you tried another TV input? You already mentioned moving the TV input away from Roku when powering TV down. Not knowing your TV, I think with Sony, HDR use is limited to certain ports? Not so with my TV but HDMI 1 is one I avoid because it defaults to a STB port (initial setup maybe?) and I can't seem to undo that.

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