Official ROKU 4K (HDR) Premiere +/Ultra Owners Thread - Page 339 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10141 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by brotony View Post
That is the 2017 Roku Ultra that many here reference and the remote should, I think, control your AVR? Anyone?

The framerate auto switching doesn't work as well as the other auto features you mention but it may depend on your viewing or apps as to if framerate causes issues.

You might consider trying one within a return period. Buy from source that makes return easy. The audio dropouts in latest firmware and framerate bugs may be a deal breaker.

Like a few other recent posters, my Roku Ultra hasn't experienced dropouts with trick play like pause rw and ffw. I haven't used it much but starting to miss it. The Apple TV 4K I primarily use relies on developer integration of tvOS APIs to work with framerate matching. And many SDR only app developers haven't gotten around to Apple TV framerate matching. Hulu is the lone exception I can think of but the others are HDR applications that are Apple TV framerate matching and HDR matching friendly.

Above said, Roku use of framerate switching is more common than Apple TV 4K framerate matching. You may not notice commercials switching framerate on Apple TV because it isn't supported yet. But it can be annoying on the Roku Ultra; framerate switching often occurs too early and may botch a commercial, if that's even a terrible thing. But rebuffering fully to content might be an issue. I wouldn't care if commercials were not framerate switched but how could that be implemented? Apple TV 4K only gets around this by default; the API isn't integrated yet.

It seems the Roku Ultra works better now when framerate switching doesn't occur for commercial breaks. But in the older firmwares, where auto framerate switching was possible, framerate switching was causing more issues than it was worth. I mention that because seems there's less complaining about framerate switching errors than before.

But one issue with framerate auto switching I'm not aware of improvement is where the AVR is used. There have been many complaints of lip sync issues when using the feature on Roku HDR capable boxes.

And finally, I still prefer the Apple TV 4K for Hulu but miss my Roku Ultra on apps such as Tennis TV and CBS All Access for framerate matching. Just my opinion but others here have shared a liking or need for a good second or alternate box. No perfect streaming box exists yet. Updates may negatively impact performance or one doesn't suit your overall app use. Roku Ultra is often listed as number 1 or 2 on their list. Maybe it supplements your Shield use?

Bit of warning though, some here have posted Denon AVR seems to have the worst audio issues with Roku Ultra. Maybe it's worth a try though? The 2016 Roku Ultra with the optical audio port seems to be more problematic with audio dropouts in Roku OS 8.1 but it's not across the board agreement on hardware interaction. The last audio bug Roku had in this forum seemed to be induced by a firmware update lasted 6 months or more.

Those who are persistent with complaints are more likely to get a replacement Roku; escalating through email with Case ID is best option for issue resolution, IMO. Answer every email to keep case open until satisfied. My 2016 Roku Ultra was replaced and replaced again with 2017 Roku Ultra twice. The second replacement was not asked for but refused until Roku support offered to cover both shipping costs for last replacement. Most replacements were done for framerate switching which I really wanted to work but OS 8.1 fixed a lot of the issues. But Roku support seemed to think it was hardware rather software that would improve feature use. My case is finally closed. I'd say framerate matching is maturing.

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Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
I have both the shield and the Roku sitting on my shelf temporarily. The Shield's issues with 1080P upscaling ended up being a non-starter for me. It was as bad as advertised, and I do not want to have to change the resolution on my device every time I go from HD to 4K. After a day with the ultra, no audio dropouts, HDR works on the apps it should, and so far so good. I also like the option to have the native frame rate, and to accept the HDR.subspace.

I was in your boat for the last few weeks and the audio dropouts were scary to me, but have not been an issue for me.

BJBBJB
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
In my opinion, there is no ultimate streamer yet on the market. I feel the Shield comes closest, but as you note it still has some issues. Yes, the Roku Ultra, Premiere+ and Stick+ (along with some Roku TVs) all support YouTube HDR, and it looks quite good. My Roku 4 and Ultra (4640) will control the volume on my Yamaha AVR, so your Denon should as well. No Roku supports color space switching, but the Ultra does support native frame rate, with varying success.

My two major complaints with a Roku is that it only supports a limited number of audio and video codecs, so many of my ripped movies require transcoding, and it won't bitstream the lossless audio codecs (TrueHD/Atmos and DTS MasterAudio/:X). The Shield covers both of these quite well. If you have Kodi set up correctly, you can bypass the Shield upscaling and let your TV handle it.
Thanks for all the info!! Yes, the "perfect" streamer is not available at this time. I currently have a Chromecast Ultra that I'm using after selling my Shield, but not having a remote is harder than I thought. IMO, it's probably the closest (Dolby Vision, YouTube HDR, etc), but it's a moot point without a remote. Other than Dolby Vision, it seems the Roku Ultra is very close to "perfect". I stuck it out with the Shield when Oreo was released, hoping they would allow frame rate switching, or color space switching, but neither came about. I'm not so worried about the audio/video codecs, as I don't watch ripped movies. I know ATV 4k is nice, but having all Android devices in my house for the last 5 or so years, it seems it would be sacrilege to pick up a ATV 4k.

Follow up question, does anyone use Hulu Live TV with a Roku Ultra? It runs pretty good on the Chromecast Ultra at this time (though was terrible when it first came out). Have they updated the channels to 60FPS for Roku?

Last edited by Kirkobangz; 08-27-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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post #10142 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
...If I understand frame rate auto switch, it leaves the framerate same as source but does upscale the resolution to the roku setting? Do I have that right? Still seems nice to keep the original framerate vs. having Roku process it from 24 to 60...

BJBBJB
Yes. That's how I understand it. The user setting is in advanced video system settings. Off by default.



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post #10143 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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Just noticed my Roku Stick Plus got a new firmware on August 24, 8.1.0 firmware 4155. I haven't checked my 2016 Ultra which has always been flawless except for typical Refresh Rate SNAFUs.

Edit: My 2016 Ultra is still on firmware 4145. I can't really check for changes since the Stick Plus is on a vanilla 1080p TV.
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post #10144 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 09:46 AM
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@htwaits On further checking my Oppo 203 shows the Roku Ultra input signal as 4K even with SD material so it is being upscaled based on the Roku's display settings.
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post #10145 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
Follow up question, does anyone use Hulu Live TV with a Roku Ultra? It runs pretty good on the Chromecast Ultra at this time (though was terrible when it first came out). Have they updated the channels to 60FPS for Roku?
I've used the 2017 Roku Ultra on Hulu Live TV beta. As I recall it works ok.

I prefer the ATV4K for Hulu use but did take the Roku Ultra, Fire TV 3 and Roku Stick+ on a road trip to compare slower motel WiFi performance. The Roku Ultra actually did best for me though there was a suggestion to flip the antenna booster over on the Stick+ that I didn't do at the time. The ultra was mostly smooth, started faster and didn't rebuffer but once. Clear winner.

On another occasion, the ATV4K quit playing a Hulu recording and wouldn't restart it. The Roku Ultra would play it after some delay. Bad recording but Roku Ultra to the rescue.


A stress test for Hulu framerate auto switching I used to do was to enable Hulu auto play and play clips that were native 24p like those of the NBC series TIMELESS. I'd get random HDCP errors and lip sync errors. Had to restart the Roku when the HDCP errors occurred. Doesn't fail so often in real life though. Some clips may not play at proper framerate and get partially blacked out during playback. These aren't typical for normal use though.

Oh, and I just remembered there's a 24p playback zoom error when resuming an episode. Loses much of the picture and you may notice faces expanded, off center and credits aren't centered. Restart from beginning with that rewind symbol and it may resolve the zoom and allow fast forward to get back to resume.

These are reasons I prefer the ATV4K for Hulu playback. That one passes my Hulu auto play stress test.


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post #10146 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
My Ultra is connected to a 1080p set, but will still stream 4K from YouTube. I can't determine what resolution Amazon sends, and I don't have 4K Netflix. The Roku will scale the resolution to whatever it is set to, so for a 1080 set a Roku 3 will upscale 480 to 1080 and an Ultra will upscale to 2160 (if connected to a 4K set). Fortunately, they seem to scale fairly well.
Thanks for your reply. What I'm trying to find out is where Roku is doing it's scaling - in the Roku device or before the source is streamed.

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post #10147 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 12:03 PM
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@htwaits On further checking my Oppo 203 shows the Roku Ultra input signal as 4K even with SD material so it is being upscaled based on the Roku's display settings.
Yep. That's what my Oppo tells me, but I would really like to find out if each Roku unit is doing the scaling or if the scaling is done before streaming.

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post #10148 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Thanks for your reply. What I'm trying to find out is where Roku is doing it's scaling - in the Roku device or before the source is streamed.
Since YouTube reports it is streaming 2160, even when I'm on a 1080 TV, the Roku has to be doing the scaling. I can't say for other streaming sources, since they don't offer a info screen like YouTube does. And of course, if I'm streaming from my local server, the Roku is scaling 2160 down to 1080, since I am not transcoding the video at the server level.

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post #10149 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
Since YouTube reports it is streaming 2160, even when I'm on a 1080 TV, the Roku has to be doing the scaling. I can't say for other streaming sources, since they don't offer a info screen like YouTube does. And of course, if I'm streaming from my local server, the Roku is scaling 2160 down to 1080, since I am not transcoding the video at the server level.
Thanks for your reply. Do you conclude that your Roku Ultra device is doing the scaling?

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post #10150 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 01:51 PM
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Thanks for your reply. Do you conclude that your Roku Ultra device is doing the scaling?
For YouTube and my local videos, yes. I expect that it does the same for other streaming sites (Netflix, Amazon), but have no method of determining what stream resolution they are sending. I do know that my 4K TV would always report receiving a 2160 image, regardless of the streaming source.

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post #10151 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 02:40 PM
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In the case of the Sony player I have, it has the following features that stand out to me, that I like having around at times are:
Multi Disc resume: allows remembering the position of up to 5 discs, so I can take a disc out play another go back to the first and it remembers where I left off, this is hit or miss with blu-ray, and DVD support for blu-ray players is non existent I've seen, especially through a power off and disc switch.

DVD Jacket image, when a DVD is stopped often times they have Jacket art that can be used as the wallpaper.
A-B repeat for repeating a specific segment.

This one is from my own personal experience, but in some rare cases, older discs with wear and tear, or mastering errors, will sometimes play better in a dedicated DVD player vs a Blu-ray player with DVD support.

I'm sure I could find more, but those are the main differences I've been aware of in my personal use case.

FYI: the model number of my player is Sony DVP-SR510H, so it has HDMI out.
I forgot about the memory. SOny gradually decreased that DVD disc memory. I remember my first few SOny DVD players had a 50 disc memory. Then it dropped down to 5 at some point. But I have no idea now what it is. Since it's been ages since i played a DVD. But for me, all those are features that I never really used with DVDs. Except for the disc memory. And with BDs many discs will remember the location. If authored that way.

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post #10152 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 02:59 PM
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I forgot about the memory. SOny gradually decreased that DVD disc memory. I remember my first few SOny DVD players had a 50 disc memory. Then it dropped down to 5 at some point. But I have no idea now what it is. Since it's been ages since i played a DVD. But for me, all those are features that I never really used with DVDs. Except for the disc memory. And with BDs many discs will remember the location. If authored that way.
While I've put some of my TV shows into Plex so I can access them through devices such as the Roku, Apple TV, DLNA via the Sony BD, and UHD BD players, it's nice to have a legacy player around for the features above, and Yes more BDs do remember the spot, many of my shows I care about will most likely not be put on Blu-ray at this point, and not really worth buying the streaming version, since I have them on disc, and can watch them on my time, online, or not. Plus I have shows that contain multiple audio options such as a Dolby, and DTS 5.1 track, and while streaming solutions such as Plex, InFuse let you usually select the audio per episode, playing from disc is nice because when choosing the track to use from the menu on disc sets the option for ALL episodes.

@aaronwt : The other thing I've found personally, since I have the variety of media formats that I do, plus both physical Disc players and media Streamers such as the Roku, and Apple TV, is sometimes DVDs glitch on the new players where it's not the main function, but simply backwards compatibility. Likewise, TV shows still aren't the easiest thing to put into Plex, though I've gotten better at it. So while I may have more devices then most on this thread, I feel more secure and confident that things will work when I want them.
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post #10153 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 05:04 PM
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For YouTube and my local videos, yes. I expect that it does the same for other streaming sites (Netflix, Amazon), but have no method of determining what stream resolution they are sending. I do know that my 4K TV would always report receiving a 2160 image, regardless of the streaming source.
That's too bad. I have a hard time believing that the scaling capabilities of an inexpensive device like the Roku units can match something like the OPPO 203.

What sort of local video files can you play through your Roku? Are you using a USB thumb drive? I've never thought about using the USB port on our Roku 3 as an input.

I can check the input stream coming into the OPPO from the Roku 3 and so far everything has been 1080p matching our TV. So far every source I've checked has also had a frame rate of 60 fps. I'll find something at Netflix that I know to be film originally and see if the there is a 24 fps rate.

I just checked a movie title at Netflix that's also on Blu-ray and it's frame rate was changed from 24 fps to 60 fps. I'd rather that they didn't do that. Since all TVs scale to their native resolutions, and there are other options that are better, I would also rather that Roku didn't do that either. From what I understand, Comcast is scaling all their output to 720p.

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post #10154 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 05:34 PM
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That's too bad. I have a hard time believing that the scaling capabilities of an inexpensive device like the Roku units can match something like the OPPO 203.

What sort of local video files can you play through your Roku? Are you using a USB thumb drive? I've never thought about using the USB port on our Roku 3 as an input.

I can check the input stream coming into the OPPO from the Roku 3 and so far everything has been 1080p matching our TV. So far every source I've checked has also had a frame rate of 60 fps. I'll find something at Netflix that I know to be film originally and see if the there is a 24 fps rate.
I agree that the Oppo most likely has superior scaling, but it is what it is. If Roku ever supports native resolution switching, it will be a miracle (in my opinion).

While I have tested using a USB drive, I mainly just stream from my DLNA server. For my Roku players attached to an AVR, I can stream almost all Blu Ray rips without transcoding. DTS/MasterAudio will stream the core DTS track without issue, so I only have to transcode TrueHD audio and VC-1 video. Framerate switching works well with this.

I have my doubts that any streaming service offers anything but 60 fps.

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post #10155 of 11471 Old 08-27-2018, 05:45 PM
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I have my doubts that any streaming service offers anything but 60 fps.
Too true. I just tested a known film title at Netflix through the Roku-3 and it's 60 fps.

I'm getting ready to reconfigure my setup and Harmony activities to take advantage of the OPPO, and to get ready to move to HDR. If I eliminate streaming through the OPPO, that only leaves running the OPPO 93 through the 203 to preserve the .ISO capability of the 93 in the HDR world. I could chuck it all and just go back to playing my shinny disks.

Thanks again for all the information you've provided.

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post #10156 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
I can check the input stream coming into the OPPO from the Roku 3 and so far everything has been 1080p matching our TV. So far every source I've checked has also had a frame rate of 60 fps. I'll find something at Netflix that I know to be film originally and see if the there is a 24 fps rate.
I tested the movie "Fury" on the Amazon site and received 24fps. I find it a good test film. BTW, watching trailers on Amazon is free. It was 24fps on my Roku 3 and Ultra.
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post #10157 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 06:28 AM
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Audio drops especially with Amazon Prime making the ROKU near useless. Does it connected directly to TV. Others reporting it on their forum too.

The idea you have to keep after them, annoying them, and then they MIGHT send you a new unit while interesting is also equally absurd. That’s how ROKU does things? That’s their idea of customer support?

Glad some have no issues. Them not having issues is hardly the norm for the rest of us.
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post #10158 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 08:05 AM
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Audio drops especially with Amazon Prime making the ROKU near useless. Does it connected directly to TV. Others reporting it on their forum too.

The idea you have to keep after them, annoying them, and then they MIGHT send you a new unit while interesting is also equally absurd. That’s how ROKU does things? That’s their idea of customer support?

Glad some have no issues. Them not having issues is hardly the norm for the rest of us.
If you're referring to my posts, I wasn't suggesting that was a fix but maybe I was fortunate to get my 2016 Roku Ultra with a 2017 model. But Roku support seemed to think that was a solution; I think my case with framerate auto switching stability proceed that. Being persistent about issues was my point; keeping an open Case ID may best solution to keep the engineers on task. Roku tries to close these if you're not responding and following up with their troubleshooting steps. I was finding despite answering, I'd get notice that they've not heard from in 5 days and they would close it. Replying the issue remains and I've not received any further suggestions or log requests would keep it open. At one point a phone discussion had support agreeing to keep it open.

Not everyone with a 2016 ultra is complaining about audio dropouts though. I'm also glad for those not having the audio issues. Hopefully a fix is coming since it appears an update induced them to start with. Following my steps above may help keep too. Swapping the Roku may be a step they come up with.

For those in return window, I'd recommend returning for refund and waiting it out because of the last audio issue had went on 6 months or more until resolved.

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post #10159 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 10:10 AM
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I tested the movie "Fury" on the Amazon site and received 24fps. I find it a good test film. BTW, watching trailers on Amazon is free. It was 24fps on my Roku 3 and Ultra.
Thanks for the information. I'll check it out at Amazon later.

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post #10160 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 10:22 AM
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I have my doubts that any streaming service offers anything but 60 fps.
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Too true. I just tested a known film title at Netflix through the Roku-3 and it's 60 fps.

I'm getting ready to reconfigure my setup and Harmony activities to take advantage of the OPPO, and to get ready to move to HDR. If I eliminate streaming through the OPPO, that only leaves running the OPPO 93 through the 203 to preserve the .ISO capability of the 93 in the HDR world. I could chuck it all and just go back to playing my shinny disks.

Thanks again for all the information you've provided.
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I tested the movie "Fury" on the Amazon site and received 24fps. I find it a good test film. BTW, watching trailers on Amazon is free. It was 24fps on my Roku 3 and Ultra.
I can confirm that Netflix outputs 24p for most, if not all of its original 4K programming, and that it's the Roku that is doing the resolution upconversion all of the time (The NF original Insatiable is one of their HDR offerings that is only 1080p). I just watched the series Ozark S1 in glorious, 4K HDR at 24Hz (in DD+, without any dropouts, despite pausing for random "intermissions") on my P+

edit: correction, only S1E1 of Insatiable on Netflix is HDR @ 1080p (the pilot), the rest of the series is in 2160p. There are whole animated series that are 1080p HDR, but the Title(s) escape me right now.
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post #10161 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I can confirm that Netflix outputs 24p for most, if not all of its original 4K programming, and that it's the Roku that is doing the resolution upconversion all of the time (The NF original Insatiable is one of their HDR offerings that is only 1080p). I just watched the series Ozark S1 in glorious, 4K HDR at 24Hz (in DD+, without any dropouts, despite pausing for random "intermissions") on my P+
What is a "P+"?

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post #10162 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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@htwaits , it's a Roku Premier Plus

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post #10163 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I can confirm that Netflix outputs 24p for most, if not all of its original 4K programming, and that it's the Roku that is doing the resolution upconversion all of the time (The NF original Insatiable is one of their HDR offerings that is only 1080p). I just watched the series Ozark S1 in glorious, 4K HDR at 24Hz (in DD+, without any dropouts, despite pausing for random "intermissions") on my P+
That is with Native Refresh Enabled, the Roku default is disabled and 60Hz. @htwaits
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post #10164 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
@htwaits , it's a Roku Premier Plus
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Originally Posted by naustin View Post
That is with Native Refresh Enabled, the Roku default is disabled and 60Hz. @htwaits
Is Native Refresh Enabled effective with lower resolutions?

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post #10165 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Is Native Refresh Enabled effective with lower resolutions?
My TV is 1080p with a 120Hz panel.
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post #10166 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 01:09 PM
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Those who are persistent with complaints are more likely to get a replacement Roku; escalating through email with Case ID is best option for issue resolution, IMO. Answer every email to keep case open until satisfied. My 2016 Roku Ultra was replaced and replaced again with 2017 Roku Ultra twice. The second replacement was not asked for but refused until Roku support offered to cover both shipping costs for last replacement. Most replacements were done for framerate switching which I really wanted to work but OS 8.1 fixed a lot of the issues. But Roku support seemed to think it was hardware rather software that would improve feature use. My case is finally closed. I'd say framerate matching is maturing.

Were you within your 1 year warranty period when they offered the free replacement?



My first-gen Ultra is experiencing dropouts, and I'm definitely outside of mine. Based on what you've said here I'm tempted to push their support team until they offer up a replacement option. If new hardware is the only way to get this fixed, I'm willing to sacrifice an unused optical port.
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post #10167 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I can confirm that Netflix outputs 24p for most, if not all of its original 4K programming, and that it's the Roku that is doing the resolution upconversion all of the time (The NF original Insatiable is one of their HDR offerings that is only 1080p). I just watched the series Ozark S1 in glorious, 4K HDR at 24Hz (in DD+, without any dropouts, despite pausing for random "intermissions") on my P+

edit: correction, only S1E1 of Insatiable on Netflix is HDR @ 1080p (the pilot), the rest of the series is in 2160p. There are whole animated series that are 1080p HDR, but the Title(s) escape me right now.
Absolutely, most streaming services will default to 24Hz as it uses less bandwidth. Rarely do streaming services have 60fps feeds, MLB.tv(on Apple TV 4K) and DirecTV Now are two services that do but most are 30fps or 24fps with the local device making the framerate/resolution conversion.
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post #10168 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 01:41 PM
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I feed my Roku into an OPPO. From what I'm reading, the Roku is doing upconverting and not the OPPO? And I can't fix it?
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post #10169 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
I feed my Roku into an OPPO. From what I'm reading, the Roku is doing upconverting and not the OPPO? And I can't fix it?
The Roku should be able to send a native signal out but in my experience, it's not very good at it often introducing audio/video sync issues.

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post #10170 of 11471 Old 08-28-2018, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peepoop View Post
Were you within your 1 year warranty period when they offered the free replacement?



My first-gen Ultra is experiencing dropouts, and I'm definitely outside of mine. Based on what you've said here I'm tempted to push their support team until they offer up a replacement option. If new hardware is the only way to get this fixed, I'm willing to sacrifice an unused optical port.
My optical audio port went out before warranty. And prior to that the remote audio jack was suspect and eventually got more intermittent. These were causes of my initial replacement just under a year.

The framerate issues were close enough I guess for replacement but likely weren't necessary. Roku support recommended the replacements hoping to close the case, I suspect.

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