Official ROKU 4K (HDR) Premiere +/Ultra Owners Thread - Page 360 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10771 of 11522 Old 11-18-2018, 05:31 PM
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I won't continue beyond this, because while we are discussing on-topic it probably doesn't interest a lot of people. RMP is only the front end user interface. The Roku firmware is responsible for the actual playback, and controls what media is supported. Dale has confirmed this multiple times. It is not capable of transcoding, and has no such ability. All transcoding must be performed before the stream is sent to the player. I realize that Roku doesn't publicly acknowledge everything their players support, and it makes it very frustrating for us that offer to support.

I hope I'm not coming across as combative or angry, because I'm not. But Roku does frustrate me sometimes with their lack of clarity about what their players can and can't do.

Dan
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post #10772 of 11522 Old 11-18-2018, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
I won't continue beyond this, because while we are discussing on-topic it probably doesn't interest a lot of people. RMP is only the front end user interface. The Roku firmware is responsible for the actual playback, and controls what media is supported. Dale has confirmed this multiple times. It is not capable of transcoding, and has no such ability. All transcoding must be performed before the stream is sent to the player. I realize that Roku doesn't publicly acknowledge everything their players support, and it makes it very frustrating for us that offer to support.

I hope I'm not coming across as combative or angry, because I'm not. But Roku does frustrate me sometimes with their lack of clarity about what their players can and can't do.
I think everyone will agree that almost all software & hardware contain 1 or bugs. Being a software developer I read lots of documentation. I don’t think I have ever read any documentation longer than 1 page that did not contain an error.
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post #10773 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 AM
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@atc98092 I just checked my 2017 Ultra (4660RW) and for video says (H.264/262/265 HEVC)
That's under OS 9.0.0.
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post #10774 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
@atc98092 I just checked my 2017 Ultra (4660RW) and for video says (H.264/262/265 HEVC)
That's under OS 9.0.0.
That indicates MPEG-2 support. So far people have confirmed it for the two versions of Ultra (4640 and 4660). Haven't heard if the Premiere+ or any of the other new 4K capable players show that. I'm not going to buy one just to check. But it would be interesting to find out if the new Stick+ supports it as well.

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post #10775 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
That indicates MPEG-2 support. So far people have confirmed it for the two versions of Ultra (4640 and 4660). Haven't heard if the Premiere+ or any of the other new 4K capable players show that. I'm not going to buy one just to check. But it would be interesting to find out if the new Stick+ supports it as well.
I can confirm it for the Premiere+, just checked. Still have issues with files with a DTS track not wanting to play, but Dolby seems to work fine. I tried Robots which is H.264 and standard DTS 5.1 (no HD audio) in an MKV and it wouldn't play with RMP. Reports damaged. The file plays with other devices though. I should try Titan A.E., its Mpeg2, with DTS, the other is AVC.
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post #10776 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
I can confirm it for the Premiere+, just checked. Still have issues with files with a DTS track not wanting to play, but Dolby seems to work fine. I tried Robots which is H.264 and standard DTS 5.1 (no HD audio) in an MKV and it wouldn't play with RMP. Reports damaged. The file plays with other devices though. I should try Titan A.E., its Mpeg2, with DTS, the other is AVC.
I probably have some DVD rips with DTS audio, but not certain what titles. I'll had to do some digging and see if DTS passthrough is still working. I do know that for some time I've had issues with Blu Ray rips that used to allow the core audio from DTS Master Audio to passthrough are now causing issues. So I've had to adjust my Serviio profiles to transcode the audio into DD. It used to work fine, but some Roku firmware update in the past 6 months mucked it up. Yeah, what a surprise.

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post #10777 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
I probably have some DVD rips with DTS audio, but not certain what titles. I'll had to do some digging and see if DTS passthrough is still working. I do know that for some time I've had issues with Blu Ray rips that used to allow the core audio from DTS Master Audio to passthrough are now causing issues. So I've had to adjust my Serviio profiles to transcode the audio into DD. It used to work fine, but some Roku firmware update in the past 6 months mucked it up. Yeah, what a surprise.
Titan A.E. is a DVD rip for me, and DTS plays, but it has the same issue as Plex, it's very broken up and choppy. It seems to be based on the Hardware / Software being used. The Black streaming stick from 2016 still works with DTS, but newer units do not. They have the broken audio with DTS. However, Plex still has a work around that sometimes works, and that is to set the video to full quality, and select the standard DTS track instead of HD. However, RMP isn't as friendly, and depending on the file in Plex, can lead to extra buffering, so for Roku, I've found it better to just stick with stereo, or a form of Dolby for audio, and use DTS with my blu-ray players. You seem to be happy with your Shield might consider getting one, but at this point, I really don't need it since DLNA with the Sony players is reliable, and, at least for my 1080p Setup, I can use PCM 5.1 with the Apple TV. It would really only be a concern for the 4K setup, if I ever decided to locally stream 4k content, which, I currently don't.

By the way, Just wanted to clarify the Premiere+ DOES support Mpeg2 in RMP.
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post #10778 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
Titan A.E. is a DVD rip for me, and DTS plays, but it has the same issue as Plex, it's very broken up and choppy. It seems to be based on the Hardware / Software being used. The Black streaming stick from 2016 still works with DTS, but newer units do not. They have the broken audio with DTS. However, Plex still has a work around that sometimes works, and that is to set the video to full quality, and select the standard DTS track instead of HD. However, RMP isn't as friendly, and depending on the file in Plex, can lead to extra buffering, so for Roku, I've found it better to just stick with stereo, or a form of Dolby for audio, and use DTS with my blu-ray players. You seem to be happy with your Shield might consider getting one, but at this point, I really don't need it since DLNA with the Sony players is reliable, and, at least for my 1080p Setup, I can use PCM 5.1 with the Apple TV. It would really only be a concern for the 4K setup, if I ever decided to locally stream 4k content, which, I currently don't.

By the way, Just wanted to clarify the Premiere+ DOES support Mpeg2 in RMP.
The most significant benefit (for me) with the Shield is playing everything (including lossless audio) without transcoding, and the ability to select and display captions. Since Roku doesn't do either, that's a huge plus. My Sony BD player will stream TrueHD but not DTS/MA, and captions only work for DVD rips and BD rips into the M2TS container. If a BD rip is in an MKV container (which most of mine are) the Sony recognizes there are captions but will not display them. If I remux the file into the M2TS container, then they display. But it's not worth the effort to remux them all.

Dan
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post #10779 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 08:46 AM
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My Roku Stick+ and 2016 Ultra both just updated from 9.0.0 4052 to 9.0.0 build 4072.
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post #10780 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 08:55 AM
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My Roku Stick+ and 2016 Ultra both just updated from 9.0.0 4052 to 9.0.0 build 4072.
I was just going to post that, my 2017 Ultra is in the process of updating to the same build now. Still nothing offered for the Premiere+.


Out of my 3 Roku devices, only the 2017 Ultra is getting the updates currently, the Premiere+ in the bedroom, and Streaming stick on my test monitor are both 2016 models and haven't updated past builds of 8.1 yet.

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post #10781 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post
I was just going to post that, my 2017 Ultra is in the process of updating to the same build now. Still nothing offered for the Premiere+.


Out of my 3 Roku devices, only the 2017 Ultra is getting the updates currently, the Premiere+ in the bedroom, and Streaming stick on my test monitor are both 2016 models and haven't updated past builds of 8.1 yet.
Manual updating to 9.0.0-4072 has been enabled for my SS (3800) and SS+ (3810)

As far as RMP MPEG2 support goes, both models indicate support (H262), but on 8.1.0, very few of any MPEG2 encoded files I threw at it in either MPG or MKV format played or played correctedly - many weren't even seen by RMP.

On 9.0.0-4072, the same results were seen, aside from a few of the videos that played incorrectly on 8.1.0, played correctly.
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post #10782 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LG8600User View Post
Manual updating to 9.0.0-4072 has been enabled for my SS (3800) and SS+ (3810)

As far as RMP MPEG2 support goes, both models indicate support (H262), but on 8.1.0, very few of any MPEG2 encoded files I threw at it in either MPG or MKV format played or played correctedly - many weren't even seen by RMP.

On 9.0.0-4072, the same results were seen, aside from a few of the videos that played incorrectly on 8.1.0, played correctly.
Do you have native framerate enabled? If so, I suggest turning it off and trying the MPEG-2 video again. It makes a difference with my Ultra. They play, but hard to watch because of stuttering.

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post #10783 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LG8600User View Post
Manual updating to 9.0.0-4072 has been enabled for my SS (3800) and SS+ (3810)

As far as RMP MPEG2 support goes, both models indicate support (H262), but on 8.1.0, very few of any MPEG2 encoded files I threw at it in either MPG or MKV format played or played correctedly - many weren't even seen by RMP.

On 9.0.0-4072, the same results were seen, aside from a few of the videos that played incorrectly on 8.1.0, played correctly.
My streaming stick is model 3600, not sure off the top of my head the Premiere+ is.
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post #10784 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 11:47 AM
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My streaming stick is model 3600, not sure off the top of my head the Premiere+ is.
Just pulled my 3600 out of my suitcase, and saw it was still on 8.1.0.4645, but a 9.0 version is now available. I haven't traveled since Sept, so it's been offline since then. With 8.1 H.262 support was not listed, as I remembered and expected. Updating to 9.0 didn't change that, again as I expected. My guess is H.262 support is only going to be available for the 5th generation and later, and maybe even only the 4K capable versions. It sure would be nice if Roku would acknowledge which players will support it.

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post #10785 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
Just pulled my 3600 out of my suitcase, and saw it was still on 8.1.0.4645, but a 9.0 version is now available. I haven't traveled since Sept, so it's been offline since then. With 8.1 H.262 support was not listed, as I remembered and expected. Updating to 9.0 didn't change that, again as I expected. My guess is H.262 support is only going to be available for the 5th generation and later, and maybe even only the 4K capable versions. It sure would be nice if Roku would acknowledge which players will support it.
Mine has 8.1.0 build 4145, not OS 9 here as of now for that device or Premiere+. FYI, DTS still works correctly on the 3600, it's the Premiere+ and Ultra that have issues, plus all current models of other Roku players.
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post #10786 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 03:07 PM
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The Roku Media Player is the only one I know that will play H.262 without transcoding, and again that's apparently only on the Ultra. Plex and Chaneru will transcode, although I've never tried forcing Plex into Direct Play with H.262 content. It might work, maybe.

But again, check the Help panel in RMP, and the Supported Files panel lists the supported codecs. It should say H.262, since it's there for JoeKustra, and he has a 4660. On mine, the line says:
Video(H.264/262/265HVEC) - MKV, MOV, MP4.
As I mentioned, they've never listed the TS container, but it works as well.
I use the NextPVR plug-in for my Roku Ultra 4640 Plex client and am able to force Direct Play of MPEG2 TS container live OTA streams from the NextPVR app on my PC. I can confirm this is happening because the Plex transcoder isn't in use in the Windows Task Manager (plus the transcoder will push my underpowered CPU to 100% use).

However, I can't get NextPVR MPEG2 .ts recorded files to play in RMP (it indicates H.262 compatibility in help). I get the error message "The codec used to compress the video is not supported." These files will play forcing Direct Play in the Roku Plex client, but there are audio and video problems.

For some strange reason, the NextPVR live OTA streams play just fine on the Roku without any transcoding. But maybe that shouldn't be a surprise since the Roku TV's have to tackle these OTA streams.
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post #10787 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 03:12 PM
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Both my Streaming Stick +'s and Ultra updated to V9 today, and I now have Dolby Digital on all the live channels of DirecTV Now. Not sure if it's the firmware or the DirecTV Now app, but I'm glad to hear it.

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post #10788 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 03:31 PM
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Are you sure about the MPEG2? The reason I ask is that it's not listed on the specs and all the discussion on PLEX says it's not supported.
I have a PLEX server and it needs to transcode liveTV (MPEG2) to H.264 in order to play on the ROKU. It seems to be "common knowledge" that only the NVidea Shield and a couple native Android boxes support MPEG2.

I was hoping that would change with the patent expiration.

TIA.
Plex shows direct playback from my Broadcast MPEG2 recordings. It doesn't show that it's transcoding the video. This is on my 2016 Ultra and a Streaming Stick+.

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post #10789 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 05:15 PM
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Can you give some screen scrapes from your setup? It's not that way on the 2017 Ultra, nor Stick, nor Stick+. See attached, all on 9.0, Theater is the Ultra.

Also, what does your server/tuner setup look like? I've got 2 Hauppauge quad cards in a 4th gen i7 setup. The Ultra is wired on switched Gb from the server and the sticks/stick+ are wireless AC.



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Plex shows direct playback from my Broadcast MPEG2 recordings. It doesn't show that it's transcoding the video. This is on my 2016 Ultra and a Streaming Stick+.
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post #10790 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:00 PM
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Can you give some screen scrapes from your setup? It's not that way on the 2017 Ultra, nor Stick, nor Stick+. See attached, all on 9.0, Theater is the Ultra.

Also, what does your server/tuner setup look like? I've got 2 Hauppauge quad cards in a 4th gen i7 setup. The Ultra is wired on switched Gb from the server and the sticks/stick+ are wireless AC.
Is it because I am not on 9.0 yet?

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post #10791 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 06:04 PM
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Not for me, same results before I upgraded. Can you share the screen scrapes and setup info????

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Is it because I am not on 9.0 yet?

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Actually, it looks like my NextPVR recorded MPEG2 .ts files do play fine forcing Direct Play in the Roku Plex client. For some reason, I was experiencing some audio/video problems when I previously played one of the files.

I've attached images showing what I see in the Plex server status menu with Direct Play forced and what I see when I force transcoding. This video was recorded in NextPVR.

In the Roku Plex client, under Settings > Video, I have 'Direct Play' set to 'Forced'. I can also have it set to 'Auto' or 'Disable' and then force Direct Play per video by adjusting the settings on the video's menu page.
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post #10793 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 09:14 PM
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My roku ultra finally got the update to 9.0 today. It went straight to 4072. So far so good. Even my DirectvNow seems to be running a bit faster. Not as fast as my Apple tv 4K, but definitely faster. Loading time use to take 8-10 seconds and changing channels was 6-8 seconds. Now, loading the app takes about 4 seconds and changing channels averages 4-5 seconds. At least some improvement and a bit more bearable. Now, if my Roku premiere in the bedroom would update I'd be happy.

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post #10794 of 11522 Old 11-19-2018, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
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Not for me, same results before I upgraded. Can you share the screen scrapes and setup info????
I got 9.0 tonight. I remember what I did. I had selected the direct play option so it would play more of my UHD rips. I just tried it and it is also direct playing mynmpeg2 broadcast recordings.

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post #10795 of 11522 Old 11-20-2018, 02:21 AM
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I got 9.0 tonight. I remember what I did. I had selected the direct play option so it would play more of my UHD rips. I just tried it and it is also direct playing mynmpeg2 broadcast recordings.

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I got 9.0 on the streaming stick + but not on the 2016 Ultra.

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post #10796 of 11522 Old 11-20-2018, 04:45 AM
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Both my sticks and ultra got the new update last night.
Now getting dd on live channels with DtvNow.
Figures I just got the new fire stick 4k for that reason.
Although I must say the fire stick is way faster to load and change channels etc with DtvNow.
Edit:
Did some testing between Roku Ultra and Fire stick 4k and the Roku is almost as fast now to load/change channels on DtvNow.

Last edited by subacabra; 11-20-2018 at 06:54 AM.
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post #10797 of 11522 Old 11-21-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
Both my sticks and ultra got the new update last night.
Now getting dd on live channels with DtvNow.
Figures I just got the new fire stick 4k for that reason.
Although I must say the fire stick is way faster to load and change channels etc with DtvNow.
Edit:
Did some testing between Roku Ultra and Fire stick 4k and the Roku is almost as fast now to load/change channels on DtvNow.
I think the most likely cause of Roku being slower then other devices on certain things is because it's not as well optimized. Roku seems to be like Microsoft when it comes to backward compatibility, and trying to keep as much legacy support as possible. While Amazon, Apple, Google, etc seem to only support a few models and try to keep optimized for the best experience with the latest software / content. I'm sure Roku tries to do the same, but they have more to support, plus when I did research, Roku is harder to write channels for then other platforms. That may have changed with newer developer tools, but also may explain why other platforms get a better app too.
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post #10798 of 11522 Old 11-21-2018, 07:41 AM
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I was able to manually update to 9.0 this morning on my Stick+. Hopefully it fixed my issue with display mode switching from what I set (4K/HDR/30) to Auto every couple of days.
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post #10799 of 11522 Old 11-21-2018, 10:10 AM
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Remember with PLEX the PLEX server is doing the heavy lifting not the ROKU.
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post #10800 of 11522 Old 11-21-2018, 11:16 AM
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Remember with PLEX the PLEX server is doing the heavy lifting not the ROKU.
Not when playing back directly with no transcoding.

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