Official ROKU 4K (HDR) Premiere +/Ultra Owners Thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2521 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I can't do that because the TV doesn't support DD+ as an input, which I need to get Atmos.

Switching the Roku to DD still passes the DD+ Atmos stream, which means that setting isn't working properly, hence their audio DD/DD+ processing isn't working as advertised.... I should lose Atmos when I force it to DD. I don't.


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The Vizio 2016 P series supports DD+. I guess you have the 2014 model, sorry Just because the P series audio setting says Dolby Digital that doesn't mean just 2.1 or 5.1
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post #2522 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by naustin View Post
The Vizio 2016 P series supports DD+. I guess you have the 2014 model, sorry Just because the P series audio setting says Dolby Digital that doesn't mean just 2.1 or 5.1


I have a 2016 P series.

It doesn't accept DD+ on its HDMI inputs.... so it won't be able to pass through a DD+ stream via ARC....

Even if that did work, which as I just explained it won't, the sound bar I am using only supports Atmos via its HDMI inputs and not arc.


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post #2523 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 11:39 AM
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NVIDIA Shield TV still has that fugly ID and still comes with a useless game controller; I'm still not interested. Maybe one day they'll make a box marketed to grownups .

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post #2524 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I have a 2016 P series.

It doesn't accept DD+ on its HDMI inputs.... so it won't be able to pass through a DD+ stream via ARC....

Even if that did work, which as I just explained it won't, the sound bar I am using only supports Atmos via its HDMI inputs and not arc.


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Well DD+ works fine on my P65 since that is about all Netflix passes now days. The P65 converts it to DD 5.1 optical for my old 54 inch SB. Weird the Sammy won't take DD+ via ARC. I was really considering the K950, but with this problem AND not passing HDR via HDMI input
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post #2525 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by naustin View Post
Well DD+ works fine on my P65 since that is about all Netflix passes now days. The P65 converts it to DD 5.1 optical for my old 54 inch SB. Weird the Sammy won't take DD+ via ARC. I was really considering the K950, but with this problem AND not passing HDR via HDMI input

You're not reading what I wrote. You cannot pass DD+ through the tv from an HDMI source.

The streaming apps are a different story... both Netflix and VUDU pass DD+ over ARC....

I think I have a good grasp of how that is working

The tv isn't converting it... DD+ was designed to be "backwards" compatible... it's a function of how the codec works


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post #2526 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
You're not reading what I wrote. You cannot pass DD+ through the tv from an HDMI source.

The streaming apps are a different story... both Netflix and VUDU pass DD+ over ARC....

I think I have a good grasp of how that is working

The tv isn't converting it... DD+ was designed to be "backwards" compatible... it's a function of how the codec works
Filmmixer, I'm not sure why it's not working for you, but my 2016 P55 passes DD+ in from HDMI and out from ARC to my receiver. I have tested it using a first gen Chromecast and previous gen Roku stick (don't have an Ultra yet). I remember testing Netflix. I can try Vudu tonight if you like.
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post #2527 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
You're not reading what I wrote. You cannot pass DD+ through the tv from an HDMI source.

The streaming apps are a different story... both Netflix and VUDU pass DD+ over ARC....

I think I have a good grasp of how that is working

The tv isn't converting it... DD+ was designed to be "backwards" compatible... it's a function of how the codec works


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Actually the P series is converting it since not all devices can convert DD+. As an example look at the arguments on this forum about buying the Ultra plus the Priemer+ because of the need for conversion by a Dolby chip. My DD5.1 soundbar can not handle DD+. Still we are digressing from your Atmos over HDMI issue....
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post #2528 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by naustin View Post
Actually the P series is converting it since not all devices can convert DD+. As an example look at the arguments on this forum about buying the Ultra plus the Priemer+ because of the need for conversion by a Dolby chip. My DD5.1 soundbar can not handle DD+. Still we are digressing from your Atmos over HDMI issue....
That was my understanding as well - the P and M series from Vizio can convert the stream from DD+ to Dolby D. I assume this is from the Dolby license they have with the Dolby Vision hardware in the device, not sure.


I do know that source material from Vudu seems to work correctly with 5.1 DD audio to my Sonos soundbar - HDMI from a Premiere+, into the Vizio, optical out to the Sonos - Sonos reads 5.1.


But, agreed, still doesn't address the Atmos pass-through the OP asked about - however, I would imagine if you set the TV to 'Bitstream' - it should pass the Atmos stream back over ARC, but not sure - can't test that...
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post #2529 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TexaClone View Post
That was my understanding as well - the P and M series from Vizio can convert the stream from DD+ to Dolby D. I assume this is from the Dolby license they have with the Dolby Vision hardware in the device, not sure.

The 2014 P-Series can do the conversion as well and it has no HDR capabilities, let alone DV. I'd imagine that most manufacturers of TVs with built-in streaming apps license that much Dolby. Customers who use those apps are going to want surround sound through ARC and S/PDIF.
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post #2530 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 03:25 PM
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This may be the wrong Forum to ask...

I have a KDL52XBR4 that I bought in early '06 and its still working great.
I've been thinking about getting a ROKU or something like it but unsure if the Sony's HDMI inputs will have any issues. Thinking about the Ultra. Can't find any info on the HDMI spec.

I believe it can be set to 1080p and should work directly into the Sony.

Or Hook it to my Onkyo TX-NR809 then to the Sony, Its HDMI 1.4

I should also add that we get our internet wirelessly so right now my download speeds:
Ping is 80ms
Dn load is 6 Mpbs
Upload is 1 Mbps

Not sure how that will affect using a Roku?

Thanks
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post #2531 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
The 2014 P-Series can do the conversion as well and it has no HDR capabilities, let alone DV. I'd imagine that most manufacturers of TVs with built-in streaming apps license that much Dolby. Customers who use those apps are going to want surround sound through ARC and S/PDIF.
It converts pass through streams or streams coming from the apps it has installed? Or both?

I ask because the original concern was the conversion of pass through and the Vizio 2016 TVs were some of the few that don't cause a problem with the Sonos because when I set the audio out to "Dolby D" it converts the DD+ to straight DD and I get 5.1 surround. Otherwise, I would get a cut out on DD+ material.

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post #2532 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by caryt View Post
This may be the wrong Forum to ask...

I have a KDL52XBR4 that I bought in early '06 and its still working great.
I've been thinking about getting a ROKU or something like it but unsure if the Sony's HDMI inputs will have any issues. Thinking about the Ultra. Can't find any info on the HDMI spec.

I believe it can be set to 1080p and should work directly into the Sony.

Or Hook it to my Onkyo TX-NR809 then to the Sony, Its HDMI 1.4

I should also add that we get our internet wirelessly so right now my download speeds:
Ping is 80ms
Dn load is 6 Mpbs
Upload is 1 Mbps

Not sure how that will affect using a Roku?

Thanks
The only issue with your speed is it might be tough to maintain a 1080 stream from some sites. 720 should be no problem. As far as a Roku, the Ultra is certainly overkill for your current TV. But it does have a couple of things that you might prefer, such as a USB connection and an optical out. You won't have any issues connecting it via HDMI 1.4 connections. You can't get 4K HDR through that, but your TV doesn't support it anyway. I currently have a Roku 4 connected to an older Panasonic plasma via 1.4 HDMI and experience no issues at all. The Ultra would of course provide some amount of future proofing, since it supports 4K HDR, for a future TV purchase. But for your current TV and Internet speed, a Roku 3 would work just as well, and cost far less.
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post #2533 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 03:50 PM
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Thanks, I thought using the Ultra I could dnload the content to a 200 gb + HD and watch later without issues with my internet connection?

Worst case the Onkyo can up convert to 1080p

Someday I'll upgrade the TV to a UHD when their is more content and a way to get faster internet.

Being in a rural sometimes has its drawbacks.

Thanks.
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post #2534 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by caryt View Post
Thanks, I thought using the Ultra I could dnload the content to a 200 gb + HD and watch later without issues with my internet connection?

Worst case the Onkyo can up convert to 1080p

Someday I'll upgrade the TV to a UHD when their is more content and a way to get faster internet.

Being in a rural sometimes has its drawbacks.

Thanks.
No Roku has the ability to download media for later playback. You can certainly get media using a computer, put it on the portable HD and then watch it on the Roku later. But you can't do that with the Roku itself.

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post #2535 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 04:15 PM
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Well hell..I assumed since it can use micro SD card slot for additional channel storage that it could.

Guess I have to do a lot more studying of what options if any are.
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post #2536 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 04:21 PM
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Yeah, many people had thought the SD card could be used for download. No such luck I'm afraid...

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post #2537 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
You're not reading what I wrote. You cannot pass DD+ through the tv from an HDMI source.

The streaming apps are a different story... both Netflix and VUDU pass DD+ over ARC....

I think I have a good grasp of how that is working

The tv isn't converting it... DD+ was designed to be "backwards" compatible... it's a function of how the codec works
FilmMixer,

I checked again. Got the Roku stick into HDMI 4 of the P. Receiver gets DD+. It worked for Netflix, Vudu, FandangoNow, and Google Play Movies. But then as soon as I tried Amazon Video... nada. No audio at all. And oddly enough, it actually forced a reboot of the display (on latest beta firmware btw). Happened twice. The third time I set the Roku audio to exclude DD+ and I got stereo PCM out of Amazon. Then I double checked my Roku, sticking it directly into my receiver and Amazon pushes out DD+. So I'm not sure what's up with Amazon's version of DD+, but it works everywhere else.
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post #2538 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caryt View Post
This may be the wrong Forum to ask...

I have a KDL52XBR4 that I bought in early '06 and its still working great.
I've been thinking about getting a ROKU or something like it but unsure if the Sony's HDMI inputs will have any issues. Thinking about the Ultra. Can't find any info on the HDMI spec.

I believe it can be set to 1080p and should work directly into the Sony.

Or Hook it to my Onkyo TX-NR809 then to the Sony, Its HDMI 1.4

I should also add that we get our internet wirelessly so right now my download speeds:
Ping is 80ms
Dn load is 6 Mpbs
Upload is 1 Mbps

Not sure how that will affect using a Roku?

Thanks
I have no issues with my 2015 Sony UHD TV and the Roku Ultra. No banding even when the Ultra sends out 12bit.

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post #2539 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 06:11 PM
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What model Roku did you get?

I had audio issues in Amazon with the Premier+. I ended up getting the Ultra and don't have the issues anymore.

If you force it to stereo audio in the settings (just as a test), do the audio issues in Amazon go away?

-Kevin

Thank you Kevin!

I have the premier+. I forced stereo audio as you suggested and the sync was fine.....should I return it? Thanks you.
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post #2540 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
What model Roku did you get?

I had audio issues in Amazon with the Premier+. I ended up getting the Ultra and don't have the issues anymore.

If you force it to stereo audio in the settings (just as a test), do the audio issues in Amazon go away?

-Kevin

Thank you Kevin!

I have the premier+. I forced stereo audio as you suggested and the sync was fine.....should I return it? Thanks you.
I returned my Premier+ and got the Ultra because I knew it would be able to transcode Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital. I initially thought it was an Amazon DD+ issues.

When I got the Ultra I forced DD and it was fine, not lip sync issues. However I switched it back to DD+ and for some reason with the Ultra Amazon was fine.

Personally, I'd go with the Ultra.

Good luck!

-Kevin
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post #2541 of 11673 Old 01-05-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
I returned my Premier+ and got the Ultra because I knew it would be able to transcode Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital. I initially thought it was an Amazon DD+ issues.

When I got the Ultra I forced DD and it was fine, not lip sync issues. However I switched it back to DD+ and for some reason with the Ultra Amazon was fine.

Personally, I'd go with the Ultra.

Good luck!

-Kevin
I'm glad to see this. I have a Premiere+ I am replacing with an Ultra for that exact reason. The TV I have currently converts the DD+ to DD, but I have lip sync issues. I am hoping the Ultra outputting DD directly will resolve the issues and then I can just pass the bitstream.

Good to see this and hopeful that the 7.5 firmware resolves some other minor issues I see with HDCP. Seems like a lot of firmware is about to be released that makes all this HDR stuff work together.

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post #2542 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 12:26 AM
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Sync issue aside, the premier+ also has major banding issue with 4k hdr. I noticed this today during bright scenes and it was bad. Watching the same material on my Samsung ju7100 was so much better..... I think this is going back to Costco. Not sure the more expensive roku will provide better processing. What is your opinion?
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post #2543 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 04:37 AM
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There was a recent discussion in this thread on HDR banding (IIRC that was related to 10 vs 12 bit output rather than any CPU speed type of processing) and a work-around that was part of the withdrawn 7.5 firmware series.


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post #2544 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
Sync issue aside, the premier+ also has major banding issue with 4k hdr. I noticed this today during bright scenes and it was bad.
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Originally Posted by CANNON-FODDER View Post
There was a recent discussion in this thread on HDR banding (IIRC that was related to 10 vs 12 bit output rather than any CPU speed type of processing) and a work-around that was part of the withdrawn 7.5 firmware series.
This.

The banding is most likely related to the processing in the display---some do better with 10, some with 12, some do both fine.

The problem with Roku 7.2.2 is the inability to manually select the best output for a given display.

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Not sure the more expensive roku will provide better processing. What is your opinion?
I'm pretty sure the + and Ultra have the same processing.

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post #2545 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
Sync issue aside, the premier+ also has major banding issue with 4k hdr. I noticed this today during bright scenes and it was bad. Watching the same material on my Samsung ju7100 was so much better..... I think this is going back to Costco. Not sure the more expensive roku will provide better processing. What is your opinion?
That's an issue with the Tv and 12 bit. For instance the Sony TVs don't have banding issues at 12 bit. While the Samsung TVs do.
Of course the Roku shouldn't even be sending out 12 bit anyway. And once 7.5 comes back out. Hopefully there is still an option with it to output 10bit like the Roku should be doing anyway.
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post #2546 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meduzadg View Post
Sync issue aside, the premier+ also has major banding issue with 4k hdr. I noticed this today during bright scenes and it was bad. Watching the same material on my Samsung ju7100 was so much better..... I think this is going back to Costco. Not sure the more expensive roku will provide better processing. What is your opinion?
The banding issue will be resolved when they re-release 7.5. Until then, the Premiere + and the Ultra will have the same issue. Stepping up to the Ultra will result in the same banding problem. Roku hasn't said much, other than they are working very hard to resolve the other problems with 7.5 and get it back out.

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post #2547 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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That's an issue with the Tv and 12 bit. For instance the Sony TVs don't have banding issues at 12 bit. While the Samsung TVs do.
It is pre-2016 Samsung TVs that have the banding. 2016 models can accept and display the 12 bit signal properly.
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post #2548 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 10:30 AM
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The banding issue will be resolved when they re-release 7.5. Until then, the Premiere + and the Ultra will have the same issue. Stepping up to the Ultra will result in the same banding problem. Roku hasn't said much, other than they are working very hard to resolve the other problems with 7.5 and get it back out.
Roku has long Xmas/New Year vacation i guess. Anyone wants to apply to work there?
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post #2549 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 01:26 PM
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My Premiere plus just got the 7.5.1 update.

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post #2550 of 11673 Old 01-06-2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimGoodwin View Post
My Premiere plus just got the 7.5.1 update.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Update for the Ultra as well.
aaronwt and naustin like this.

Sony XBR75X940C & XBR65A1E Samsung UBD K8500
My Recommended Daytime Settings Apps(Video), My Recommended Daytime Settings Apps, My non-HDR and HDR Settings, Setting HDMI to show no overscan
Sony XBR75X940C, Samsung UBD K8500, Roku Ultra, DirecTV RVU and C61K, Chromecast Ultra
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