***Official*** Google Chromecast ULTRA owner's thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
But what about the lowly, $30 Amazon Fire TV stick? Surely the CCU can do this conversion if the Fire TV stick can, eh? Well it doesn't need to, because the Fire TV stick just sends DD+ to the SEK, then the SEK sends out the core DD signal to the AVR via ARC.

Time to take you and Mr. @shoman94 to school; I present to you, irrefutable video proof

Since we cannot see the incoming audio signal on our TVs via "Info", lucky for you two, I also own the Oppo UDP-203; which has an HDMI input capable of passing through audio (and video) via bitstream (i.e. no processing, just straight passthrough) through the main HDMI out, and displaying the incoming signal.

You'll see in the Oppo's info display (at 0:07s) that:
  • In the upper-left corner, the incoming signal from the Fire TV stick is in fact DD+,
  • the bottom-left shows video and audio output signal information on the "Main" HDMI out (which is Bitstream for audio),
  • and in the bottom-right you'll see that that I disconnected the "Audio Only" HDMI out;

I then pan to my AVR, which displays the incoming signal as DD 5.1 from the SEK via ARC, evidenced by the 5.1 speaker icons that are lit up. Finally, I go into the TV settings to show that the TV is indeed connected to my AVR via HDMI (ARC).

https://youtu.be/Zt6cRDzEyqs

When I re-connect the "Audio Only" HDMI output from the 203 to the AVR and switch to that input on the AVR, I obviously get DD+ displayed on the AVR (attached).

Good day, sirs

Actually no. All your video shows is your player inputing DD+ to the OPPO . The OPPO is then Outputting DD to the tv not DD+ via bitstream.
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post #392 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
But what about the lowly, $30 Amazon Fire TV stick? Surely the CCU can do this conversion if the Fire TV stick can, eh? Well it doesn't need to, because the Fire TV stick just sends DD+ to the SEK, then the SEK sends out the core DD signal to the AVR via ARC.

Time to take you and Mr. @shoman94 to school; I present to you, irrefutable video proof

Since we cannot see the incoming audio signal on our TVs via "Info", lucky for you two, I also own the Oppo UDP-203; which has an HDMI input capable of passing through audio (and video) via bitstream (i.e. no processing, just straight passthrough) through the main HDMI out, and displaying the incoming signal.

You'll see in the Oppo's info display (at 0:07s) that:
  • In the upper-left corner, the incoming signal from the Fire TV stick is in fact DD+,
  • the bottom-left shows video and audio output signal information on the "Main" HDMI out (which is Bitstream for audio),
  • and in the bottom-right you'll see that that I disconnected the "Audio Only" HDMI out;

I then pan to my AVR, which displays the incoming signal as DD 5.1 from the SEK via ARC, evidenced by the 5.1 speaker icons that are lit up. Finally, I go into the TV settings to show that the TV is indeed connected to my AVR via HDMI (ARC).

https://youtu.be/Zt6cRDzEyqs

When I re-connect the "Audio Only" HDMI output from the 203 to the AVR and switch to that input on the AVR, I obviously get DD+ displayed on the AVR (attached).

Good day, sirs
Is there an actual pass thru setting? Just wondering because the manual shows something different.

The HDMI IN port on the rear of the player allows for the connection of native 4K content from
external sources such as a streaming set-top box, cable/satellite boxes, game consoles,
computers and even other Blu-ray and UHD players. The incoming signal is processed by the
player and output to your connected devices, allowing you to take advantage of the player's builtin
audio and video processing capabilities.
 Use the INPUT button on the OPPO remote to select HDMI IN from the input menu


Notice it says the signal is processed by the player? I don't own that hardware so I'm not sure of the settings.

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post #393 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post
I don't think Shoman is an expert on this but he'll please correct me if I am wrong.

My initial post that took us down this long and winding road was pointing out that as far as the Chromecast Ultra goes, when connected to a TV that doesn't support Dolby Digital Plus over ARC it will only output Stereo... period but right from the get go you have taken it upon yourself to interpret our words as if we were "bashing" the Chromecast.

If you are now deferring the topic to @shoman94 I welcome talking to someone who can look at things from both sides of the equation.

So let me repeat some of the information from the Dolby Digital Plus over ARC thread and examine these important facts:





Before we talk about "downcode" as you put it, lets read the above again. It says "A lot of TV maker did not prepare for that, and are still downgrading DD+ content to DD before sending it out on ARC.

You seem to think it's the device that does the downcoding.

The above says it's the TV and that has been my experience from day 1 going all the way back to the TV you say you own (Samsung 78") before the SEK-3500 changed things. Prior to the introduction of the SEK Evo Kit, even when the TV received a DD 5.1 signal it did not have the capability to pass it to the AVR as 5.1 so THE TV DOWNGRADED IT TO STEREO before passing the signal to the Receiver.

We were all pleased when the SEK-3500 added the ability to decode DD+ and DD 5.1 and pass it to the Receiver as DD 5.1 instead of Stereo.

This has worked flawlessly for all the devices I have had hooked up directly to the SEK in the past and present including my old Arris STB, a new 4K Arris STB / PVR, my BD-7500 Blu-ray Player, my UBD-K8500 4K Blu-ray Player, and even my cheap old Apple TV.

To add to the above list @PJL99 pointed out that he had tested his Sony BDP-S390 Blu-ray player which also was able to pass DD+ to his AVR as DD 5.1.

At this point I think you are just arguing for the sake of hearing the sound of the keys click on your keyboard. Here is one of the points you were trying to make with me the other day when you were convinced I was being inaccurate...



So @PJL99 tested out a couple of these including the Roku that you have been going on and on about:



To add to the list, @galonzo tried out the Firestick as well and his results back up what @PJL99 said:



But you want to ignore the most important point of @galonzo 's post where you paraphrased @shoman94 , by saying:



Actually that is not quite right. Here is what @galonzo and the rest of us think:



And that is what we have being saying all along!

What is your issue dude? Should all the Samsung TV owners (and those who own TVs that don't support Dolby Digital Plus over ARC) run out and buy the Chromecast Ultra and only get Stereo from content that outputs Dolby Digital Plus such as Netflix? Would you have preferred that we kept quiet on this shortcoming of the Chromecast Ultra?

Two weeks you have argued about this when all I was trying to do in my initial post was offer some help and let all the Samsung owners know that the Chromecast Ultra is an exception to the rule with Netflix DD+ content and only sends Stereo to our TVs.

As a matter of fact I also enlightened a couple of 2016 Vizio P owners including @shoman94 who was a bit confused about my initial post since he wasn't having issues with DD 5.1 so although he probably didn't want to, he is almost an expert on how the Samsung lineup is able to receive DD+, process it, and output it since the TV has the essential codecs required to do this -- both Dobly Digital Plus AND Dolby Digital.

He can speak for himself but let's defer to @shoman94 who would probably prefer that you let this go, but as a fellow 2016 Vizio P like yourself, has probably come to the conclusion that it isn't the device that needs to downgrade the DD+ signal -- it's the TV -- but in the case of the Chromecast Ultra (and maybe even some other devices) it's just not getting the DD+ signal like it is from all those other devices we have mentioned on this thread. Some of those devices are very old such as my Apple TV that surely didn't get some sort of overhaul hardware upgrade when Netflix decided to send DD+ instead of DD.

Just before posting this I see @galonzo has added some irrefutable video proof and also caught on that you seem to respond only to parts of peoples posts while ignoring more germane parts... or even ignore entire posts like the one that @shoman94 Liked last night where I was trying to diplomatically lay out how others in the A/V community understand the pass-through of audio signals while trying to avoid a pissing match.

Maybe an apology is in order to the guys who have been reading this thread like @korsjs , @ergalthema , @galonzo , @PJL99 , @lmclouth as well as others who have been following it like @Rudy1 not to mention the guys on the SEK-3500 thread who have thanked me for making them aware of this.

We have just tried to be helpful and I am sorry that @shoman94 had to get caught up in the middle of your inaccurate assessment of how pass-through works. Your posts have done nothing more than confuse people or make them waste their time wading through this thread responding to your claims that in some cases are WAY off the mark even going so far as saying the Roku works the same as the Chromecast which we now know isn't true either thanks to @PJL99 .

I write one post letting guys know that the Chromecast will only output Stereo from DD+ content on most TV makes and model that has spawned off 34 posts.

Absolutely ridiculous!!!

I don't think you understand what I have been saying this time. I am not trying to give anyone a hard time about their tv, but what I am saying was meant to help people understand that it is not exactly Chromecasts issue that you are not receiving DD+. Is it possible the EDID is in correct causing this ? Sure but based on 10000s of posts on roku and other device forums this is very unlikely.

The actual likely result of what you are experiencing is what I have stated. The Chromecast is not downcoding DD+. Roku did not do it for a very long time, and while I have not tested it their forums suggest most of their devices still don't. And sure the Chromecast could eventually be changed via firmware to do this. But currently it does not, and it is not required to. I also want to point out you keep saying how so few tvs actually support DD+ and that this problem affects all the other sets.
So what you are getting at is that Chromecast has messed up EDIDs for a ton of tvs even though they all use different EDIDS and simply messed every EDID up. As opposed to the more simpler option. Chromecast does not currently downcode.

And once again, I am not saying this is 100% what is happening. You could be correct. But it is just the fact the you guys are ignoring the 1000s of other posts all over the web with the same problems on other devices and other tvs.
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post #394 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post
I don't think Shoman is an expert on this but he'll please correct me if I am wrong.

My initial post that took us down this long and winding road was pointing out that as far as the Chromecast Ultra goes, when connected to a TV that doesn't support Dolby Digital Plus over ARC it will only output Stereo... period but right from the get go you have taken it upon yourself to interpret our words as if we were "bashing" the Chromecast.

If you are now deferring the topic to @shoman94 I welcome talking to someone who can look at things from both sides of the equation.

So let me repeat some of the information from the Dolby Digital Plus over ARC thread and examine these important facts:





Before we talk about "downcode" as you put it, lets read the above again. It says "A lot of TV maker did not prepare for that, and are still downgrading DD+ content to DD before sending it out on ARC.

You seem to think it's the device that does the downcoding.

The above says it's the TV and that has been my experience from day 1 going all the way back to the TV you say you own (Samsung 78") before the SEK-3500 changed things. Prior to the introduction of the SEK Evo Kit, even when the TV received a DD 5.1 signal it did not have the capability to pass it to the AVR as 5.1 so THE TV DOWNGRADED IT TO STEREO before passing the signal to the Receiver.

We were all pleased when the SEK-3500 added the ability to decode DD+ and DD 5.1 and pass it to the Receiver as DD 5.1 instead of Stereo.

This has worked flawlessly for all the devices I have had hooked up directly to the SEK in the past and present including my old Arris STB, a new 4K Arris STB / PVR, my BD-7500 Blu-ray Player, my UBD-K8500 4K Blu-ray Player, and even my cheap old Apple TV.

To add to the above list @PJL99 pointed out that he had tested his Sony BDP-S390 Blu-ray player which also was able to pass DD+ to his AVR as DD 5.1.

At this point I think you are just arguing for the sake of hearing the sound of the keys click on your keyboard. Here is one of the points you were trying to make with me the other day when you were convinced I was being inaccurate...



So @PJL99 tested out a couple of these including the Roku that you have been going on and on about:



To add to the list, @galonzo tried out the Firestick as well and his results back up what @PJL99 said:



But you want to ignore the most important point of @galonzo 's post where you paraphrased @shoman94 , by saying:



Actually that is not quite right. Here is what @galonzo and the rest of us think:



And that is what we have being saying all along!

What is your issue dude? Should all the Samsung TV owners (and those who own TVs that don't support Dolby Digital Plus over ARC) run out and buy the Chromecast Ultra and only get Stereo from content that outputs Dolby Digital Plus such as Netflix? Would you have preferred that we kept quiet on this shortcoming of the Chromecast Ultra?

Two weeks you have argued about this when all I was trying to do in my initial post was offer some help and let all the Samsung owners know that the Chromecast Ultra is an exception to the rule with Netflix DD+ content and only sends Stereo to our TVs.

As a matter of fact I also enlightened a couple of 2016 Vizio P owners including @shoman94 who was a bit confused about my initial post since he wasn't having issues with DD 5.1 so although he probably didn't want to, he is almost an expert on how the Samsung lineup is able to receive DD+, process it, and output it since the TV has the essential codecs required to do this -- both Dobly Digital Plus AND Dolby Digital.

He can speak for himself but let's defer to @shoman94 who would probably prefer that you let this go, but as a fellow 2016 Vizio P like yourself, has probably come to the conclusion that it isn't the device that needs to downgrade the DD+ signal -- it's the TV -- but in the case of the Chromecast Ultra (and maybe even some other devices) it's just not getting the DD+ signal like it is from all those other devices we have mentioned on this thread. Some of those devices are very old such as my Apple TV that surely didn't get some sort of overhaul hardware upgrade when Netflix decided to send DD+ instead of DD.

Just before posting this I see @galonzo has added some irrefutable video proof and also caught on that you seem to respond only to parts of peoples posts while ignoring more germane parts... or even ignore entire posts like the one that @shoman94 Liked last night where I was trying to diplomatically lay out how others in the A/V community understand the pass-through of audio signals while trying to avoid a pissing match.

Maybe an apology is in order to the guys who have been reading this thread like @korsjs , @ergalthema , @galonzo , @PJL99 , @lmclouth as well as others who have been following it like @Rudy1 not to mention the guys on the SEK-3500 thread who have thanked me for making them aware of this.

We have just tried to be helpful and I am sorry that @shoman94 had to get caught up in the middle of your inaccurate assessment of how pass-through works. Your posts have done nothing more than confuse people or make them waste their time wading through this thread responding to your claims that in some cases are WAY off the mark even going so far as saying the Roku works the same as the Chromecast which we now know isn't true either thanks to @PJL99 .

I write one post letting guys know that the Chromecast will only output Stereo from DD+ content on most TV makes and model that has spawned off 34 posts.

Absolutely ridiculous!!!

I agree that this is ridiculous. I am NO EXPERT. I'm just trying to see this from an open mind and look at what makes sense to me. I still believe we have two options from the evidence I've seen so far. Either the device downplays it before the SEK gets it or the SEK should be the one downplaying it. At least that's how I view. Obviously something is not going right between those two devices.
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post #395 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 11:08 AM
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Like Shoman just pointed out, your UBD-K8500 is not sending your tv DD+ and then your tv is outputting DD. The UBD-K8500 is a device that can downcode DD+. So it is only sending your tv Dolby Digital. The chromecast is not a device that can do this.
I believe it's time to establish the technical baseline of exactly what Dolby Digital Plus streams are since it's apparent some bad assumptions have been made.

This is the relation of Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital, courtesy of Wikipedia:
"Dolby Digital Plus bitstreams are not directly backward compatible with legacy Dolby Digital decoders. However, Dolby Digital Plus is a functional superset of Dolby Digital, and decoders include a mandatory component that directly converts (without decoding and re-encoding) the Dolby Digital Plus bitstream to a Dolby Digital bitstream (operating at 640kbit/s) for carriage via legacy S/PDIF connections (including S/PDIF over HDMI) to external decoders (e.g. AVRs, etc.). All Dolby Digital Plus decoders can decode Dolby Digital bitstreams."

Since we've established that the SEK has a DD+ decoder as shown in the video galanzo just posted and what I fully tested and described in my previous thread, as a mandatory function that SEK DD+ decoder includes the conversion function to Dolby Digital -- when it receives a properly-encoded Dolby Digital Plus bitstream. So let's take Vudu streaming as an example. (I believe it's the same for Netflix and other services relative to DD+.) In an exchange I had with Vudu technical support, they stated "All TVs that VUDU has supported since 2009 have had DD+ decoders, since that's what VUDU has always used as the audio codec. The utility is that DD+ compresses better for the same quality, which is important for streaming applications where bandwidth is critical."

So Vudu always uses the DD+ audio codec. Pretty simple, right? Therefore, the CCU is receiving that always sent by Vudu DD+ audio bitstream and is supposed to pass it via the HDMI connection (like other devices such as the Sony Blu-ray player I tested and the galonzo's Oppo testing) to the SEK , which has a compliant DD+ decoder in it (as established by testing). In the case of Vudu (confirmed to always be a DD+ bitstream), when other devices than the CCU pass the DD+ bistream to the SEK, it then passes Dolby Digital on via ARC -- a confirmation that the SEK is a DD+ compliant decoder. So, again as stated multiple time the SEK does what it's supposed to (DD+ to DD via ARC) for all devices except the CCU.

So is the fact that all works as expected for all devices except when using the CCU a problem with the SEK or the CCU? Pretty simple logic here folks, regardless of what some people are asserting.

So what isn't happening that should happen? This is what should happen, and does for everything but the CCU. The SEK receives a bitstream from a device plugged into it. Its DD+ decoder decodes that bistream and use it's DAC to play the sound on the TV speakers. But as a compliant DD+ decoder it also strips off the Dolby Digital bitstream portion and provides it to the ARC and optical outputs. It's then the job of the AVR connected via ARC or optical to decode the Dolby Digital bistream it receives and use it's DAC to produce the sound to the speakers attached to it.

I will reply specifically to shortyg83's most recent post in a subsequent post.
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post #396 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
I don't think you understand what I have been saying this time. I am not trying to give anyone a hard time about their tv, but what I am saying was meant to help people understand that it is not exactly Chromecasts issue that you are not receiving DD+. Is it possible the EDID is in correct causing this ? Sure but based on 10000s of posts on roku and other device forums this is very unlikely.

The actual likely result of what you are experiencing is what I have stated. The Chromecast is not downcoding DD+. Roku did not do it for a very long time, and while I have not tested it their forums suggest most of their devices still don't. And sure the Chromecast could eventually be changed via firmware to do this. But currently it does not, and it is not required to. I also want to point out you keep saying how so few tvs actually support DD+ and that this problem affects all the other sets.
So what you are getting at is that Chromecast has messed up EDIDs for a ton of tvs even though they all use different EDIDS and simply messed every EDID up. As opposed to the more simpler option. Chromecast does not currently downcode.

And once again, I am not saying this is 100% what is happening. You could be correct. But it is just the fact the you guys are ignoring the 1000s of other posts all over the web with the same problems on other devices and other tvs.
1. When all other devices tested work properly, and the CCU doesn't, it is "exactly" the CCU's issue.
2. The EDID information is a data structure provided by a digital display to describe its capabilities to a video source. Note that there is nothing in this definition that relates to audio bitstreams. EDIT: Red herring alert. This I know to be wrong. I included it to solicit a response, which was forthcoming.
3. The use of the term "downcode" makes no sense in this context and indicates a lack of basic understanding of the applicable technical concepts. "Downcode" is defined as a verb to designate (a medical procedure or insurance claim) with a lower value, or in computing, to rewrite or convert (programs or software) into a lower level language. It is not a term applicable to this discussion.
4. "1000s of other posts all over the web" is not a fully reliable information source. Technical descriptions from Dolby, HDMI.org, Vudu, Wikipedia, etc. are reliable information sources (which is where I get the technical information I post). When I asked you for specific links of the posts you base your assertions on, you provided links that do not deal with the specific technical issue we are discussing.
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Last edited by PJL99; 02-24-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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post #397 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 11:35 AM
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Is there an actual pass thru setting? Just wondering because the manual shows something different.

The HDMI IN port on the rear of the player allows for the connection of native 4K content from
external sources such as a streaming set-top box, cable/satellite boxes, game consoles,
computers and even other Blu-ray and UHD players. The incoming signal is processed by the
player and output to your connected devices, allowing you to take advantage of the player's builtin
audio and video processing capabilities.
 Use the INPUT button on the OPPO remote to select HDMI IN from the input menu


Notice it says the signal is processed by the player? I don't own that hardware so I'm not sure of the settings.
Yes, for video passthrough, it is called Source Direct (also in the manual), and the bottom of the information readout for the HDMI input is in fact displaying what is being sent out (also explained in the manual). I can switch between bitstream and PCM output on the fly, and the information will change accordingly (as will the readout on the AVR, obviously).

This is the whole reason for the HDMI input on the 203 in the first place, to take advantage of the video processing as well as the premium audio DACs if you choose to use the analog outs for audio. Or, you can simply pass through the signal (both audio and video) untouched. In my YT video, you can see I have the 203 set to upscale the video to 4K (the wifi signal is weak to the Fire TV stick behind all of the equipment, so it was only sending 720p; as evidenced in the upper-right corner of the displayed information).
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post #398 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I agree that this is ridiculous. I am NO EXPERT. I'm just trying to see this from an open mind and look at what makes sense to me. I still believe we have two options from the evidence I've seen so far. Either the device downplays it before the SEK gets it or the SEK should be the one downplaying it. At least that's how I view. Obviously something is not going right between those two devices.
shoman94, thanks for this post. As I posted, per Dolby, DD+ decoders include a mandatory component that directly converts (without decoding and re-encoding) the Dolby Digital Plus bitstream to a Dolby Digital bitstream. And the SEK does this.

Something is indeed not going on right between the CCU and the SEK. But since all other tested and documented devices interact properly with the SEK, I again assert that the fault lies with the CCU (and Chromecast Gen 1 in my experience). Among competing hypotheses (whether it's the SEK or CCU's issue), the one with the fewest assumptions (it's a CCU issue) should be selected (Occam's razor).

Those like myself posting about the technical details have technical backgrounds, including education and industry experience, and I believe we're presenting accurate facts and drawing the correct conclusion about the CCU.

Thanks again.
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post #399 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PJL99 View Post
1. When all other devices tested work properly, and the CCU doesn't, it is "exactly" the CCU's issue.
2. The EDID information is a data structure provided by a digital display to describe its capabilities to a video source. Note that there is nothing in this definition that relates to audio bitstreams.
3. The use of the term "downcode" makes no sense in this context and indicates a lack of basic understanding of the applicable technical concepts. "Downcode" is defined as a verb to designate (a medical procedure or insurance claim) with a lower value, or in computing, to rewrite or convert (programs or software) into a lower level language. It is not a term applicable to this discussion.
4. "1000s of other posts all over the web" is not a fully reliable information source. Technical descriptions from Dolby, HDMI.org, Vudu, Wikipedia, etc. are reliable information sources (which is where I get the technical information I post). When I asked you for specific links of the posts you base your assertions on, you provided links that do not deal with the specific technical issue we are discussing.
My god you can't be serious. If you don't know that EDID contains the information of what type of audio a device supports than you should just give up.
You literally have 0 idea what you are talking about clearly by everything you have written here so I give up.
Everything you just stated is just honestly the dumbest thing I have read on the forum to date.
1. Work properly? The chromecast is made to work connected to your tv. If you are getting any sound and any video then it is working properly.
2. My god I can't even.
3. DOWNCODE rewrite or convert (programs or software) into a lower level language.
"some of the libraries written into C were downcoded into assembly"
That doesn't pertain to converting DD+ into the older DD. Like literally you need to give up.
4. So this thread is the only correct thread on the internet and every other person all over the internet who had similar problems with other devices don't count. Gotcha.


Man like honestly you made any future debate with you pointless.
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post #400 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 12:01 PM
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My god you can't be serious. If you don't know that EDID contains the information of what type of audio a device supports than you should just give up.
You literally have 0 idea what you are talking about clearly by everything you have written here so I give up.
Everything you just stated is just honestly the dumbest thing I have read on the forum to date.
1. Work properly? The chromecast is made to work connected to your tv. If you are getting any sound and any video then it is working properly.
2. My god I can't even.
3. DOWNCODE rewrite or convert (programs or software) into a lower level language.
"some of the libraries written into C were downcoded into assembly"
That doesn't pertain to converting DD+ into the older DD. Like literally you need to give up.
4. So this thread is the only correct thread on the internet and every other person all over the internet who had similar problems with other devices don't count. Gotcha.


Man like honestly you made any future debate with you pointless.
Thank you for your comments. They gave me a good laugh.
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post #401 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 12:04 PM
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Thank you for your comments. They gave me a good laugh.
Here is what EDID does maybe laugh some more, then maybe idk read a book, and when you learn something about electronics come back and talk.

CEA-861 Extension – The most prevalent EDID extension is CEA-861, defined to support advanced capabilities of consumer devices incorporating HDMI
The general structure of CEA-861 extension data is shown in Table 3. CEA-861 allows for a variable number of 18-byte detailed timing descriptions to be included. For example, video timing details for 1080i, which is popular for consumer displays but not for PCs, can be communicated. CEA-861 also specifies a variable length "CEA Data Block Collection" for describing parameters such as display colorimetry, and advanced audio capabilities including surround sound format, audio sampling rate, and even speaker configuration and placement. The significance of the CEA-861 extension is that it aims to address previous operational disparities experienced with integrating consumer-based display devices into computer-based commercial AV systems, allowing for proper conveyance of EDID information between devices.
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post #402 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 12:18 PM
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I agree that this is ridiculous. I am NO EXPERT. I'm just trying to see this from an open mind and look at what makes sense to me. I still believe we have two options from the evidence I've seen so far. Either the device downplays it before the SEK gets it or the SEK should be the one downplaying it. At least that's how I view. Obviously something is not going right between those two devices.
I agree with you, I do think it can be more thant one thing that is causing this. I was just trying to point this out them but they don't seem to be open to the idea that it can be anything besides a faulty Chromecast.

And I am not saying it isn't that, I was just trying to show that there are reasons that it could be happening.
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Here is what EDID does maybe laugh some more, then maybe idk read a book, and when you learn something about electronics come back and talk.

CEA-861 Extension – The most prevalent EDID extension is CEA-861, defined to support advanced capabilities of consumer devices incorporating HDMI
The general structure of CEA-861 extension data is shown in Table 3. CEA-861 allows for a variable number of 18-byte detailed timing descriptions to be included. For example, video timing details for 1080i, which is popular for consumer displays but not for PCs, can be communicated. CEA-861 also specifies a variable length "CEA Data Block Collection" for describing parameters such as display colorimetry, and advanced audio capabilities including surround sound format, audio sampling rate, and even speaker configuration and placement. The significance of the CEA-861 extension is that it aims to address previous operational disparities experienced with integrating consumer-based display devices into computer-based commercial AV systems, allowing for proper conveyance of EDID information between devices.
Thanks for the description from Extron.com.

So you're saying that there is an issue with the parameters that are passed to the CCU by the SEK?

Hmmm... Apparently the SEK passes those parameters (capabilities) correctly to other devices (Blu-ray players, Roku, Fire Stick, etc.) because Dolby Digital gets passed via ARC when a DD+ stream is provided by the content provider (e.g. Vudu, Netflix, etc.) using those other devices. But it's not passing them correctly only with the CCU? You just proved the hypothesis that it's an issue in the CCU, not the SEK, because those parameters are read properly by the other devices. Maybe the CCU is reading the Speaker Allocation Data Blocks containing information about the speaker configuration of the display device and ignoring the advanced audio capability/configuration information from the SEK, thus passing only PCM stereo. Kind of stupid since many other devices seem to be able to read the advanced audio capability/configuration information properly and provide DD+ bitstreams and therefore Dolby Digital via ARD rather than just PCM (stereo) out of the CCU.

Hey Google, you're not reading the SEK parameters correctly. Get new glasses.

By the way the EDID "misunderstanding" in my prior post was a red herring. I led the horse to water and it drank.

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Good Grief!

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #405 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 01:12 PM
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Darn, I though you meant it when you said to @PJL99 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
Man like honestly you made any future debate with you pointless.
...but then you went and posted this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
Here is what EDID does maybe laugh some more, then maybe idk read a book, and when you learn something about electronics come back and talk.

CEA-861 Extension – The most prevalent EDID extension is CEA-861, defined to support advanced capabilities of consumer devices incorporating HDMI
The general structure of CEA-861 extension data is shown in Table 3. CEA-861 allows for a variable number of 18-byte detailed timing descriptions to be included. For example, video timing details for 1080i, which is popular for consumer displays but not for PCs, can be communicated. CEA-861 also specifies a variable length "CEA Data Block Collection" for describing parameters such as display colorimetry, and advanced audio capabilities including surround sound format, audio sampling rate, and even speaker configuration and placement. The significance of the CEA-861 extension is that it aims to address previous operational disparities experienced with integrating consumer-based display devices into computer-based commercial AV systems, allowing for proper conveyance of EDID information between devices.
Nice cut and paste from a website.


I was in the midst of replying to your earlier post but your reply to @PJL99 stopped me in my tracks when you said...

Quote:
1. Work properly? The chromecast is made to work connected to your tv. If you are getting any sound and any video then it is working properly.
That's quite the low bar don't you think?!!

So as much as I thought we were making some headway in seeing eye to eye on this and had a reply all typed up trying to look at this pragmatically and without "casting" blame [no pun intended] you really do want to point the finger away from the Chromecast whereas I would be the first to blame my TV if it weren't for the fact that every other device we tested with it was able to receive DD+ from the Netflix app and pass it through our TVs as DD 5.1... even the Roku you said would work the same as the Chromecast.

I have come to the conclusion that this probably has nothing to do with EDID it is just the way the Chromecast "works" unlike every other device we tested.

My expectation would be that the CCU -- just like every other device out there -- should send DD+ and let the TV deal with it, which with the exception of the CCU, works and the Samsung passes DD 5.1 to our Receivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I agree that this is ridiculous. I am NO EXPERT. I'm just trying to see this from an open mind and look at what makes sense to me. I still believe we have two options from the evidence I've seen so far. Either the device downplays it before the SEK gets it or the SEK should be the one downplaying it. At least that's how I view. Obviously something is not going right between those two devices.
Exactly and I appreciate your viewpoint. My guess is since every other device we tested does the "downplaying" after it reaches the TV, the Chromecast is for whatever reason only sending the TV stereo and I base this on a couple of things:

1) it can send DD+ to a TV capable of Dolby Digital over ARC

2) it can send DD 5.1 to all TVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
I agree with you, I do think it can be more thant one thing that is causing this. I was just trying to point this out them but they don't seem to be open to the idea that it can be anything besides a faulty Chromecast.

And I am not saying it isn't that, I was just trying to show that there are reasons that it could be happening.
OK, quick STOP THE PRESS. We don't believe it is a "faulty" Chromecast. We believe this is the way it works.

If on the other hand, you are saying that it is our TVs that are the root cause of the problem, then hypothetically speaking why does the Samsung TV lineup produced since 2015 (along with the SEK-3500) have no issues with any other device?

On that note, those in favour of ending this bull-crap hit the Like button below...

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Please don't ever invite me to your house for brownies...not saying that's what is in yours.

Yes, please get back to the CC Ultra discussion.
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Yea i think this is the third time I've said I've seen enough...lol. Maybe you guys can just agree to disagree. Then again this is a technical forum and as long as you guys keep your cool and make this debate a learning experience for many.... then carry on.
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Yea i think this is the third time I've said I've seen enough...lol. Maybe you guys can just agree to disagree. Then again this is a technical forum and as long as you guys keep your cool and make this debate a learning experience for many.... then carry on.
Nooooo!!!

What is the matter with you.

I was going to 'Like' this post until I read the "carry on" bit.

Oh well, I'll give you a Like anyways as I did to @CCsoftball7 's reply but I gotta say, if CC every pooped by (er, I mean popped by) my house, I would make sure to whip a nice pan of my special brownies!

After all I do live in British Columbia, Canada, eh!

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Darn, I though you meant it when you said to @PJL99 ...



...but then you went and posted this..



Nice cut and paste from a website.


I was in the midst of replying to your earlier post but your reply to @PJL99 stopped me in my tracks when you said...



That's quite the low bar don't you think?!!

So as much as I thought we were making some headway in seeing eye to eye on this and had a reply all typed up trying to look at this pragmatically and without "casting" blame [no pun intended] you really do want to point the finger away from the Chromecast whereas I would be the first to blame my TV if it weren't for the fact that every other device we tested with it was able to receive DD+ from the Netflix app and pass it through our TVs as DD 5.1... even the Roku you said would work the same as the Chromecast.

I have come to the conclusion that this probably has nothing to do with EDID it is just the way the Chromecast "works" unlike every other device we tested.

My expectation would be that the CCU -- just like every other device out there -- should send DD+ and let the TV deal with it, which with the exception of the CCU, works and the Samsung passes DD 5.1 to our Receivers.



Exactly and I appreciate your viewpoint. My guess is since every other device we tested does the "downplaying" after it reaches the TV, the Chromecast is for whatever reason only sending the TV stereo and I base this on a couple of things:

1) it can send DD+ to a TV capable of Dolby Digital over ARC

2) it can send DD 5.1 to all TVs



OK, quick STOP THE PRESS. We don't believe it is a "faulty" Chromecast. We believe this is the way it works.

If on the other hand, you are saying that it is our TVs that are the root cause of the problem, then hypothetically speaking why does the Samsung TV lineup produced since 2015 (along with the SEK-3500) have no issues with any other device?

On that note, those in favour of ending this bull-crap hit the Like button below...

OK 1 im sorry I didn't quote the website I got the EDID information from. I thought I type quotation marks, but the information was correct and was to prove a point to him.

2. Im not saying that chromcast isn't setting the bar low by going with any audio and video is correct, I completely agree with you. But it doesn't change the fact that is the way it is designed to work sadly.

3. Im not sure if you are ignoring everything I put and just going on pjl99 saying ROKU works. There are literally 1000s of posts saying lots of the models of rokus work exactly like chromecast with the SEK 3500. I understand one guy whose side you are on said it works with his. But don't be biased and literally ignore the ton of people with different results then him. I posted multiple links showing you guys, and if you search it literally thousands of pages come up with people talking about this issue. So "every other device" does not work with these TVS no matter how often you want to insist it does.
And even if ROKU changed something in its newer devices, which Im not sure of, It doesn't change that there are an obscene amount of streaming devices that are only sending PCM 2.0 sound to the SEK boxes when only DD+ tracks are available.

4. I have tried to point out multiple times I never meant to fight with you guys or try to put down your tvs in any way. I have an obscene amount of electronics and 90% of my tvs are SAMSUNG. And they work as good as any other model.
What I have been trying to point out, and literally the only thing I have been trying to point out, is that there are multiple things that can cause the problem you are having.
A. The tv doesn't accept DD+ via HDMI.
This still seems the most likely culprit. The only time any proof exist that DD+ can be received by your tv is via on board streaming APPS.
No on else has shown any proof that any other device is actually sending your tv DD+ and then the tv output DD. Your other devices
are very likely just more advanced and have been on the market a lot longer than Chromecast Ultra.
B. The Chromecast is not correctly reading EDID info.
It is very possible the info in the EDID is being incorrectly processed via the Chromecast it happens. But the fact that it was stated other people
with non DD+ tvs are having the same issue kind of makes this unlikely. All the Chromecast needs to send DD+ is for the tv to say it accepts it.
C. The Chromecast does not convert DD+ to DD.(at least not yet)
This is supported by your tv getting dd when DD+ isn't the default track. This would show that the EDID correctly is getting information from
your tv that it can accept DD. So if the Chromecast did convert it, then it would send it as DD since it clearly knows your tv can receive that.

LASTLY I will leave this link showing that the ROKU 4 will only send stereo to devices that are not DD+ and that it will not convert it like other players do.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roku/commen...1_from_roku_4/

Keep in mind I am aware you manual states DD+ as supported CODEC, but they don't give much insight on how or through what sources.
All of these leads to the most likely answer that what I have been saying is correct. Your tv does not accept DD+ via HDMI. Stop saying HDMI(ARC) I am not talking about ARC I know it can't pass it. I am saying your tv doesn't support DD+ via any HDMI input and some of your previous devices were ones capable of converting DD+ unlike ROKU and in this situation Chromecast.
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Spoiler!

All of these leads to the most likely answer that what I have been saying is correct. Your tv does not accept DD+ via HDMI. Stop saying HDMI(ARC) I am not talking about ARC I know it can't pass it. I am saying your tv doesn't support DD+ via any HDMI input and some of your previous devices were ones capable of converting DD+ unlike ROKU and in this situation Chromecast.


Hope you're happy -- you got the last words in -- too bad they weren't correct!
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Is there an info screen on the Samsung that tells you what is receiving?

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Is there an info screen on the Samsung that tells you what is receiving?

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Yes, in the audio settings area. The possible output settings for the formats that are not being received are grayed out.
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just caught up on the postings. i appreciate all who are trouble shooting with the hopes of "Grace" or someone from google will not look at this thread, but actually READ IT. many thanks to all. i would just love this to work as one would expect. it has so much potential with google home.

still looking for a one device solution. xbox one s - nope. ccu - nope. lg apps - i think is the best minus you tube hdr but no auto voice control. hopefully one day there is a all in one solution.

peace and love.
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Hope you're happy -- you got the last words in -- too bad they weren't correct!
This is getting borderline commical with you guys now. You do realize my post literally contained the only possible ways your problem exists outside of user error right? My god the ignorance here is insane. My post literally could not be incorrect.
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Is there an info screen on the Samsung that tells you what is receiving?

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Yes, in the audio settings area. The possible output settings for the formats that are not being received are grayed out.
No there is nothing in the menu that shows you what audio is being received.
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No there is nothing in the menu that shows you what audio is being received.
Attention Samsung TV owners: Please do not respond to anymore of these posts

Please see the attached thumbnail to view the screen @PJL99 was referring to. Anyone that owns a late model Samsung TV manufactured over the last number of years would be very familiar with this screen located under Menu >> Sound >> Additional Settings >> Audio Format

When the TV is not receiving a Dolby Digital signal (and by that I mean DD+ or DD 5.1) this option will be grayed out.
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Attention Samsung TV owners: Please do not respond to anymore of these posts

Please see the attached thumbnail to view the screen @PJL99 was referring to. Anyone that owns a late model Samsung TV manufactured over the last number of years would be very familiar with this screen located under Menu >> Sound >> Additional Settings >> Audio Format

When the TV is not receiving a Dolby Digital signal (and by that I mean DD+ or DD 5.1) this option will be grayed out.
YOUR TV IS NOT SHOWING YOU WHAT IT IS RECEIVING. They are the options on what to set it to, or what is possibly available from the device. It isn't what the device is sending. Holy god. Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus are not the same thing and would not be listed under the same name.
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post #418 of 1212 Old 02-24-2017, 06:17 PM
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Attention Samsung TV owners: Please do not respond to anymore of these posts



Please see the attached thumbnail to view the screen @PJL99 was referring to. Anyone that owns a late model Samsung TV manufactured over the last number of years would be very familiar with this screen located under Menu >> Sound >> Additional Settings >> Audio Format



When the TV is not receiving a Dolby Digital signal (and by that I mean DD+ or DD 5.1) this option will be grayed out.


This is what it looks like to display what is being relieved not a selection menu. Wow.

At this point I have to question if you have any type of knowledge in this subject. You are looking at a menu showing what formats are available from that device that is sending a signal. You guys are getting are getting worse.





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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Attention Samsung TV owners: Please do not respond to anymore of these posts

Please see the attached thumbnail to view the screen @PJL99 was referring to. Anyone that owns a late model Samsung TV manufactured over the last number of years would be very familiar with this screen located under Menu >> Sound >> Additional Settings >> Audio Format

When the TV is not receiving a Dolby Digital signal (and by that I mean DD+ or DD 5.1) this option will be grayed out.
Attention Samsung TV owners

The above user doesn't know how his tv works.
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post #420 of 1212 Old 02-25-2017, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, can we move on please. I'm the OP and will have the mods come clean up the thread if it continues.

Thanks.

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My Recommended Daytime Settings Apps(Video), My Recommended Daytime Settings Apps, My non-HDR and HDR Settings, Setting HDMI to show no overscan
Sony XBR75X940C, Samsung UBD K8500, Roku Ultra, DirecTV RVU and C61K, Chromecast Ultra
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