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post #5461 of 5479 Old 02-13-2020, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post
AT&T Uverse contractors got notice that their contract ends as of 2/28. Read about it on dslreports.
Yeah, AT&T bigwigs recently publicly stated that AT&T TV would launch nationwide in Feb. and recent rumors say that will happen on 2/26 or 2/27. And lots of observers, including myself, have said that Uverse TV will cease to be available to new subscribers anywhere once AT&T TV goes nationwide. (It's already unavailable in those places where AT&T TV has soft-launched.)

So this is more confirmation of the pending big AT&T TV launch. I'm just wondering what the go-to-market strategy for it will be in terms of channel packages, pricing, and contract length. I don't think it's going to be what they've used since August in the pilot markets (which is pretty much just the old DirecTV terms).
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post #5462 of 5479 Old 02-13-2020, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Yeah, AT&T bigwigs recently publicly stated that AT&T TV would launch nationwide in Feb. and recent rumors say that will happen on 2/26 or 2/27. And lots of observers, including myself, have said that Uverse TV will cease to be available to new subscribers anywhere once AT&T TV goes nationwide. (It's already unavailable in those places where AT&T TV has soft-launched.)

So this is more confirmation of the pending big AT&T TV launch. I'm just wondering what the go-to-market strategy for it will be in terms of channel packages, pricing, and contract length. I don't think it's going to be what they've used since August in the pilot markets (which is pretty much just the old DirecTV terms).
What kind of Internet will they bundle with AT&T TV?
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post #5463 of 5479 Old 02-13-2020, 05:32 PM
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That’s been on their website for months.
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post #5464 of 5479 Old 02-13-2020, 07:17 PM
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Once this goes nationwide and a few people experiment with it, it'll be interesting to see if the Osprey box continues to force HDR on 4k TVs for all channels as many beta testers have claimed (and complained about).
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post #5465 of 5479 Old 02-13-2020, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeKlim View Post
Once this goes nationwide and a few people experiment with it, it'll be interesting to see if the Osprey box continues to force HDR on 4k TVs for all channels as many beta testers have claimed (and complained about).
The forced HDR is such a joke. That box is a joke. How AT&T thought forcing HDR was a good idea is just crazy. I used that dumb but once. Forced HDR just looked so bad on non HDR content it rendered the box useless.
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post #5466 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 01:09 PM
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What kind of Internet will they bundle with AT&T TV?
They're bundling it with their home broadband products. The main brand name they use is "AT&T Fiber," although there are certainly parts of their network that they haven't upgrade to fiber-to-the-home, so those addresses are still served by what they used to brand as "AT&T Uverse" (i.e. fiber-to-the-node).

In general, the way it works for new subs is this:

They'll sell you 100 Mbps service (or, if that's not possible at your address, then whatever the fastest speed they can offer), for $60/mo the first year, going up to $70 thereafter. That price includes the non-optional $10 rental fee for their wi-fi gateway.

If your address is served by fiber-to-the-home, you'll also be offered faster tier options, 300 Mbps and 1 Gbps. The regular prices for those tiers (after the first year) are $90 and $110, respectively, I think. In at least some areas, they discount the 300 Mbps tier down to the same price as 100 Mbps in the first year. The 1 Gbps tier is also discounted by some amount in the first year and it also has no data cap.

If you combine AT&T TV with AT&T Fiber, you get an ongoing $10/mo discount. They also waive the data cap if your speed tier would otherwise have one. They also give you up-front Visa gift cards for each product, plus a bonus one for combining the two. And they waive the $99 Fiber installation fee if you're also getting AT&T TV. There's a 1-yr contract on Fiber and a 2-yr contract on AT&T TV. (Interestingly, it's just a 1-yr contract on Uverse TV, which AT&T TV is replacing.)

At least that's the way it works so far in the pilot cities. Terms may well change when they roll out AT&T TV nationwide.
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post #5467 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 01:33 PM
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I just ended a 1-year deal with U-Verse TV and Internet bundle.

So they just renamed U-Verse Internet I guess.

They've touted offering AT&T Giga in my city for years but they've never expanded the footprint beyond some neighborhoods.


So now they are touting 5G Home Service -- not yet -- but I'm probably going to remain skeptical until they deliver it.
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post #5468 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 03:00 PM
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I'm reading the comments people have made here about the AT&T Osprey box forcing HDR on 4K TV users.

So sorry to be ignorant!

Do I understand HDR correctly?

My understanding from a couple web pages (like Consumer Reports) is that HDR is the OPPOSITE of what those of us who worked in the image processing arena called "contrast stretching", and one of the procedures we usually applied to get better results. E.g., some of the darkest shades that without HDR would be saturated to full black are instead made dark grey, and some of the brightest shades that without HDR would saturate to fully bright (e.g., to white for shades of grey) are instead made somewhat darker. Along with more levels of brightness within the supported range.

So for a person like me, who LIKES high contrast pictures, HDR is probably a major step down (except for the more levels part, which is always good)??

Or do I completely misunderstand?

Regardless, AT&T should give people a choice, not force them to do it their way, regardless of what type of picture is being delivered by the content provider, or what the viewer likes.
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post #5469 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I just ended a 1-year deal with U-Verse TV and Internet bundle.

So they just renamed U-Verse Internet I guess.

They've touted offering AT&T Giga in my city for years but they've never expanded the footprint beyond some neighborhoods.


So now they are touting 5G Home Service -- not yet -- but I'm probably going to remain skeptical until they deliver it.
What they used to call AT&T Uverse, they renamed to AT&T Internet. But in pretty much every market where that exists, at least part of the network has been upgraded to fiber-to-the-home, which they originally called AT&T GigaPower (I think) but now brand as AT&T Fiber. So, for instance, here in Nashville, all the marketing/advertising is for the AT&T Fiber brand, even if the only thing available at your particular address might just be AT&T Internet. My neighborhood was upgraded to Fiber a little over a year ago.

I haven't heard much out of AT&T about 5G fixed wireless home broadband. Verizon is doing that and T-Mobile has said they'll aggressively get into that if the Sprint merger goes through (which it looks like it will). I've read a bit indicating that AT&T plans to jump into that game too but they've not said much so far.

AT&T, like Verizon, definitely seems like they want to just kill off their old traditional POTS network and the slow DSL services that run over it. My guess is that they see 5G fixed wireless replacing that. So select neighborhoods will have fiber-to-the-home and other surrounding areas will have 5G home.

I'd love to know if AT&T's AirGig technology will ever get deployed. Haven't read any updates on that in a long time...
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post #5470 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
I'm reading the comments people have made here about the AT&T Osprey box forcing HDR on 4K TV users.

So sorry to be ignorant!

Do I understand HDR correctly?

My understanding from a couple web pages (like Consumer Reports) is that HDR is the OPPOSITE of what those of us who worked in the image processing arena called "contrast stretching", and one of the procedures we usually applied to get better results. E.g., some of the darkest shades that without HDR would be saturated to full black are instead made dark grey, and some of the brightest shades that without HDR would saturate to fully bright (e.g., to white for shades of grey) are instead made somewhat darker. Along with more levels of brightness within the supported range.

So for a person like me, who LIKES high contrast pictures, HDR is probably a major step down (except for the more levels part, which is always good)??

Or do I completely misunderstand?

Regardless, AT&T should give people a choice, not force them to do it their way, regardless of what type of picture is being delivered by the content provider, or what the viewer likes.
I'll try and explain this for you.

If you watch SDR (standard dynamic range) content with your display being triggered for HDR (High Dynamic Range), colors will be extremely over-saturated.

And it's vice-versa with HDR material not triggering HDR on the display, the image is extremely flat.

SDR displays don't have a problem with the "always on" HDR that AT&T is doing, because their displays simply ignore it.
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post #5471 of 5479 Old 02-14-2020, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
I'm reading the comments people have made here about the AT&T Osprey box forcing HDR on 4K TV users.

So sorry to be ignorant!

Do I understand HDR correctly?

My understanding from a couple web pages (like Consumer Reports) is that HDR is the OPPOSITE of what those of us who worked in the image processing arena called "contrast stretching", and one of the procedures we usually applied to get better results. E.g., some of the darkest shades that without HDR would be saturated to full black are instead made dark grey, and some of the brightest shades that without HDR would saturate to fully bright (e.g., to white for shades of grey) are instead made somewhat darker. Along with more levels of brightness within the supported range.

So for a person like me, who LIKES high contrast pictures, HDR is probably a major step down (except for the more levels part, which is always good)??

Or do I completely misunderstand?

Regardless, AT&T should give people a choice, not force them to do it their way, regardless of what type of picture is being delivered by the content provider, or what the viewer likes.

You're describing a form of compression. HDR doesn't do that. If anything, HDR has the same goals as contrast stretching in that it tries to capture the widest range of levels of brightness.
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post #5472 of 5479 Old 02-15-2020, 08:46 AM
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this maybe OLD news ( from Aug. '19) but whatever!...


https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/att-...he-difference/
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post #5473 of 5479 Old 02-15-2020, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post
I'll try and explain this for you.

If you watch SDR (standard dynamic range) content with your display being triggered for HDR (High Dynamic Range), colors will be extremely over-saturated.

And it's vice-versa with HDR material not triggering HDR on the display, the image is extremely flat.

SDR displays don't have a problem with the "always on" HDR that AT&T is doing, because their displays simply ignore it.
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You're describing a form of compression. HDR doesn't do that. If anything, HDR has the same goals as contrast stretching in that it tries to capture the widest range of levels of brightness.
Thanks guys. It looks like I was looking at web pages that oversimplified things.

I just looked things up elsewhere, and found a page on CNET labelled "How HDR Works".

It explains things a bit more clearly.

In effect, it appears that video HDR does contrast enhancement in some parts of the image, and contrast compression in other parts, depending on the brightness and/or dynamic range of pixels in that region, with the goal of making local variation more visible. And not every TV does it exactly the same way. Nor is entirely similar to HDR in still photography.

One way of doing that would be to do overall contrast compression on a global level, i.e., applied to the local mean, so you saturate fewer large scale dark and light areas, but to enhance the variation (expand the contrast) on a local level. It's really quite clever.

On top of that, HDR TVs are supposed to actually have a relatively wide dynamic range of achievable brightness, as well as more quantized levels within that range - but that isn't the definition of HDR itself.

So - whether or not HDR is what you want depends on the type of imagery, and what you want to get out of it.

For some scientific and engineering work, you often want to have a consistent relationship between the nominal brightness and/or color, etc., and the displayed brightness and/or color, and the results of HDR would potentially be disastrous. For example, if you want to visually classify ground cover based on the distribution of brightness and/or color and/or polarization and/or phase, etc. But for some purposes, such as detecting objects, you simply want to bring out local detail, which is what HDR is designed to do.

For recreational TV watching, it sounds like it might sometimes be a very good idea, if and only if it is done "right", part of which means it is properly adapted to the statistics of the picture being displayed, and to the characteristics of the display device.

On my TV at home, an old non-smart LCD TV, which does not have HDR, I routinely set the color saturation to maximum, and contrast quite high, to gain detail in most areas. I bring down the brightness so large areas don't over-saturate, which would lose detail in the bright areas. But I do sometimes loose detail in the dark areas. HDR is much more sophisticated than that.

There are a lot of image processing techniques which can be helpful in bringing out detail for some imagery and some purposes, but not others. This is one of them.

So - as long as I have a fair degree of degree of control over it, I think I would prefer a TV that had HDR. But if the Osprey box really does take away that control, I wouldn't choose that box. Of course, to each their own.

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post #5474 of 5479 Old 02-15-2020, 01:29 PM
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Also in the REC.2020 spec is Wide Color Gamut (WCG). I believe that's what the main issue is regarding SDR content being displayed as HDR. It's not the high dynamic range that is causing the color issues, it's the WCG that is.
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post #5475 of 5479 Old 02-15-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerhunt View Post
this maybe OLD news ( from Aug. '19) but whatever!...


https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/att-...he-difference/

this is a more recent article:
https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/att-...-difference-2/
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post #5476 of 5479 Old 02-18-2020, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post
Also in the REC.2020 spec is Wide Color Gamut (WCG). I believe that's what the main issue is regarding SDR content being displayed as HDR. It's not the high dynamic range that is causing the color issues, it's the WCG that is.
So - are you saying that the AT&T Osprey box delivers WCG even if the TV doesn't know what to do with it?

Or are you saying that it delivers WCG format signals if the TV does support it, even if the source signal was not WCG, thereby distorting the colors, because the TV assumes it is WCG?

Something else?

What specific type of color distortion does it deliver? E.g., do oranges become yellow?

I admit I'm guilty of thread drift, as this has little to do with DirecTV Now, but:

When I learned a tiny bit about video, I was taught that all primary color representations (both additive and subtractive), which map the full visual spectrum into a finite number of primary colors, distort color to a significant extent, because
(1) Most primary color systems assume the human visual system is linear, but it isn't. E.g., it is closer to having a logarithmic sensitivity.
(2) Different people have somewhat different color sensitivities in their cones. E.g., some of the cones in some people's vision are shifted into the ultraviolet or into the infrared, or are shifted in other manners. Some people are missing one or more type of cone (including some forms of color blindness), or have 4 instead of 3 types of cone (retrachromacy). No attempt to accurately represent everyone's vision using a relatively small # of primaries can succeed well for people with atypical color sensitivities.
(3) TV's RGB color scheme is inherently flawed, even for people with typical color sensitivities, because it does not represent the typical color sensitivities of the 3 types of cone.
(4) Even if the human visual system is approximated to be linear, and everyone was exactly the same, some real world colors would require negative brightness in some of the primaries to represent, which is physically impossible. (It is even more impossible on video systems in which each primary cannot be made wholly dark.) E.g., the only spectrally pure colors that can be represented exactly are the primaries that are included in the scheme. And if you take white, and subtract out any primary other than those included, those colors can also not be represented. In general, with any finite # of primary colors, there must be regions of color space that physically can not be represented.
(5) The original color schemes built into TV restricted this further, by mapping a linear transformation of RGB space into another space that was also restricted in range. Then digital TV quantized the representation into fewer levels than the eye can distinguish under optimal conditions, which was made worse by using even level spacing instead of logarithmic spacing. WGC/HDR, if it is done right, might fix those issues, I think, by allowing the representation of more levels over a wider range, though I don't know the details. But it can't fix the first 4 problems.
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post #5477 of 5479 Old 02-18-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
So - are you saying that the AT&T Osprey box delivers WCG even if the TV doesn't know what to do with it?
I'm guessing the Osprey is sending the REC.2020 flag (instead of REC.709), even though the video is REC.709. The display is then displaying the material as REC.2020, causing colors to be mapped incorrectly. For example, what should be orange is being displayed as a more saturated orange. Skin tones will be affected as well (obviously). Someone with pale skin would look pinkish.
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post #5478 of 5479 Old 02-18-2020, 12:46 PM
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Does anyone know if it is possible to get the DVR to extend the recording time for sports events? I'm tired of the end of basketball games not getting recorded to the cloud DVR.


Thanks.
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post #5479 of 5479 Old 02-18-2020, 01:18 PM
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Does anyone know if it is possible to get the DVR to extend the recording time for sports events? I'm tired of the end of basketball games not getting recorded to the cloud DVR.


Thanks.


Not the native DVR no, you’d have to buffer by including shows that occur after the scheduled event. If you use morning like Channels DVR then yes.
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