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post #571 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I am actively considering dropping DISH at the end of my contract and am looking at Hulu Live which carries every channel we want and had considered YTTV. But it sounds like YTTV won't get me everything I want and that I will need to add something like "Philo" (whatever that is) to fill in the blanks. That presents a wife issue. As it is, we now watch regular TV, plus Amazon plus Netflix and it's remote gymnastics to get to what we want to see. Replacing DISH with 2 more services is moving in the wrong direction. So what is the advantage of YTTV to Hulu Live? Near as I can tell, they are about the same price but Hulu has more stations available (at least those that I have interest in)

But I just have to believe that DISH and DirecTV are going to need to do something drastic to not go under. As cord cutting continues and there are more options to do so, I just can't believe they will sit by and watch their customer base slowly erode. Once my contract is up, I will contact both DISH and DirecTV and see if they have come to their senses. We watch 14 channels out of the over 200 we have access to.
Hulu Live TV charges separately for certain functions, including DVR fast-forwarding and multiple users. With the announced price increases, you're looking at $45 for Hulu Live TV, plus as much as $20 for the two add-ons, depending on your needs, starting Feb. 26. YouTube TV is still only $40.
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post #572 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 06:20 PM
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Very cool, thanks!


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Looking forward to some bitrate comparisons between YTTV and DTVN. You pretty much know what the others were doing in past few months.

Any idea of what cable and satellite are offering in bitrate?

So can you please share how they're stacking up? Thanks.

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post #573 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by brotony View Post
Looking forward to some bitrate comparisons between YTTV and DTVN. You pretty much know what the others were doing in past few months.

Any idea of what cable and satellite are offering in bitrate?

So can you please share how they're stacking up? Thanks.

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Me and @rakstr did comparisons and published them but they were deleted by the mod due to other reasons. They are very close but rakstr used Stats for Nerds because he’s on Roku and I used the Xcode HUD so he wasn’t able to get bitrate. I then started a trial of YTTV to do an Apples to Apples comparison (no pun intended) and compared bitrate. On the ATV4K the average bitrate generally is a little under 10 Mbps for 1080p 60fps channels on DTTV and about 6.6 Mbps on YTTV. So about 30+% higher on DTTV. It’s hard to tell the difference to my eyes unless you’re watching good content that would show artifacts and film grain and if you add in the DVR, 3rd stream, less buggy app and nice user interface I think YTTV is a very good deal even if the PQ on DTTV is a little better.


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post #574 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 07:30 PM
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Mine are where I posted them

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post57513810
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Me and @rakstr did comparisons and published them but they were deleted by the mod due to other reasons. They are very close but rakstr used Stats for Nerds because he’s on Roku and I used the Xcode HUD so he wasn’t able to get bitrate. I then started a trial of YTTV to do an Apples to Apples comparison (no pun intended) and compared bitrate. On the ATV4K the average bitrate generally is a little under 10 Mbps for 1080p 60fps channels on DTTV and about 6.6 Mbps on YTTV. So about 30+% higher on DTTV. It’s hard to tell the difference to my eyes unless you’re watching good content that would show artifacts and film grain and if you add in the DVR, 3rd stream, less buggy app and nice user interface I think YTTV is a very good deal even if the PQ on DTTV is a little better.


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post #575 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 07:41 PM
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Mine aren’t but I’ll PM the two that were removed.


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post #576 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 08:45 PM
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Just post them. That's what the thread was for.
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Mine aren’t but I’ll PM the two that were removed.


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post #577 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 09:11 PM
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Just post them. That's what the thread was for.


Feel free, you have them now. I’ve already described the numbers and what it means.


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post #578 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Me and @rakstr did comparisons and published them but they were deleted by the mod due to other reasons. They are very close but rakstr used Stats for Nerds because he’s on Roku and I used the Xcode HUD so he wasn’t able to get bitrate. I then started a trial of YTTV to do an Apples to Apples comparison (no pun intended) and compared bitrate. On the ATV4K the average bitrate generally is a little under 10 Mbps for 1080p 60fps channels on DTTV and about 6.6 Mbps on YTTV. So about 30+% higher on DTTV. It’s hard to tell the difference to my eyes unless you’re watching good content that would show artifacts and film grain and if you add in the DVR, 3rd stream, less buggy app and nice user interface I think YTTV is a very good deal even if the PQ on DTTV is a little better.


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I think that's a fair assessment. Others might produce bitrate results that are closer or show one or the other at a clear advantage.

For argument sake I'd be willing to accept DTVN may have a slight edge but the DVR and other variables make YTTV appealing. And hopefully neither are accepting anything less than just ok (borrowed the pun from AT&T). The bitrate could stand a bit of improvement.

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post #579 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 10:54 PM
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There's bitrate and there's buffering and outages. Guess which service is notorious for the latter.
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post #580 of 1068 Old 01-30-2019, 11:16 PM
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AND I never participated in any comparison. I simply posted the "stats for nerds" for a handful of channels as asked and noted that bitrate was NOT the ultimate arbiter of PQ. I take NO ownership in any of the comparisons and put very little into them as any qualifying metric.
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post #581 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by brotony View Post
I think that's a fair assessment. Others might produce bitrate results that are closer or show one or the other at a clear advantage.

For argument sake I'd be willing to accept DTVN may have a slight edge but the DVR and other variables make YTTV appealing. And hopefully neither are accepting anything less than just ok (borrowed the pun from AT&T). The bitrate could stand a bit of improvement.

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Here you go...the data can be found here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post57528206
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post #582 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 06:33 AM
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On YTTV, if you record a show on any channel except CBS, CW, and Pop (owned by CBS), you can fast-forward commercials in the recorded version. The VoD version from any channel won't let you FF commercials, but you can FF the noncommercial parts of it. Recorded shows stay in your library for nine months or until you delete the show. The VoD version usually expires within 5 to 6 weeks, and once it does your recording is unlocked on CBS and CW. Note, some VoD content doesn't have commercials or very limited commercials (FX is generally really good like this).
This is why I have CBS all Access so I don't see commercials for their shows. And then I buy the CW shows, currently from Fandango, so I don't see commercials with those shows. I don't want any commercials and none of the streaming services could give it to me for everything. Which is why I need to get my content from several streaming sources.

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post #583 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 10:13 AM
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This is why I have CBS all Access so I don't see commercials for their shows. And then I buy the CW shows, currently from Fandango, so I don't see commercials with those shows. I don't want any commercials and none of the streaming services could give it to me for everything. Which is why I need to get my content from several streaming sources.

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I can totally relate to that.

For the two CW shows I'm currently watching, I watch later the night they air so I can still fast-forward my recording on YTTV. If that wasn't possible (like before YTTV added my local CW), I'd just wait until I could watch on Netflix, which adds the newest seasons of each CW show one week after that season's finale airs. For short-season shows, it's not a big deal to wait.

That's a great idea for CBS All Access. I don't watch enough CBS shows to justify an ongoing subscription, but it's good to have options.

In addition to the permanent brain damage and unconscious mind control that undoubtedly results from watching 15-20 minutes of commercials for every hour of TV show, there just isn't enough time in my schedule to watch every show I want. That time for commercials adds up quickly and can be put to much better use doing pretty much anything else.
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post #584 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 10:25 AM
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Here you go...the data can be found here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post57528206
These stats align with my experience with both services that DTVN looked slightly better but not enough for me to forgo the better features, channel lineup and price of YTTV.

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post #585 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 10:56 AM
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These stats align with my experience with both services that DTVN looked slightly better but not enough for me to forgo the better features, channel lineup and price of YTTV.


You’re right. The DVR, user interface and channel offering is compelling. Plus, I believe YTTV has a real customer support service that is reachable by email and telephone.

But, as a lifelong Rams fan I wish your team bad luck this Sunday.


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post #586 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 12:31 PM
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I definitely took a step down going from PS Vue to YouTube TV in terms of PQ a year ago. But YouTube TV has since made a number of improvements in the past year. I can't compare anymore. But I don't sit around thinking, "Damn, I wish this looked better, more like PS Vue/cable/sat/whatever." My only gripe still is lack of 5.1, especially now that I've gotten a taste for it with certain on demand content and watching some current shows on Hulu right now (which has finally enabled 5.1 on certain devices).
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post #587 of 1068 Old 01-31-2019, 01:26 PM
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There's bitrate and there's buffering and outages. Guess which service is notorious for the latter.
Sorry; but except for the 1 time 4 hour outage back in October, I've NEVER experienced an outage. And as far as buffering goes, 99% of the time buffering issues is a result of YOUR Network/Internet connection. I had slight buffering issues when I first signed up with DirectvNow. But once I fixed my "Home Network", I haven't had one buffering issue in 6 months. And the higher video quality is, the more critical a stable internet connection is. So I would expect DirectvNow to have some issues that require the home network to be looked at.

But hey, if the very best video quality isn't important; (Which for MANY people, including my wife is the case); then go with Sling, Youtube, Vue, hulu, or whatever. For me, I wanted the best video quality I could get.

Also; just as important, (More important for my wife), is the "Channel Selection". NO PROVIDER EXCEPT DirectvNow, can provide the channels that I and my wife want. The ONLY way I could get the same channels currently, if I changed away from DirectvNow, would be to combine services with 2 or more services. E.g. Youtube + Philo. And even then, I'd have to go with a 3rd service to get HBO and other premiums. And sorry; but no one "Wants" to have to switch between 2-3 different apps just to see what's on tv to watch. I sure don't. Let alone, combining 2-3 services will cost me $20-$30 per month MORE than what it costs me for DirectvNow.

I have nothing against Youtube. For many, it seems like a good service. Go for it. For me, DirectvNow has been FLAWLESS. I have absolutely no use for a DVR, so even though DirectvNow describes theirs as "Beta" and still in development, that doesn't affect my decision. What affects my decision for having DirectvNow is: Channel avialability, Price, and highest video quality. For what I'm looking for, ONLY DirectvNow can provide what I want.
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post #588 of 1068 Old 02-04-2019, 10:59 AM
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As much as many of us would rather not see YouTube TV add channels and thereby raise prices, I couldn't help notice that in a Twitter thread about YTTV, a couple of times when someone said, "YTTV is great. I just wish they had [channel name(s)]," someone from YouTube encouraged them to go to a webpage to make channel requests. I don't know if they are just doing this for good social media PR (acting like they care and that channels a lot of people want may eventually be added), or they are seriously soliciting input with the goal of adding the most in-demand channels sooner than later. At any rate, if you want to ask YouTube TV to add channels, go to https://support.google.com/youtubetv...etwork_request
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post #589 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 01:47 AM
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I trialed YouTubeTV over the weekend on 2 different TVs. A Sony X900F using the native app for it and a TCL R617 using the roku app.

I came to the conclusion that they still have a lot of work to do. The PQ was good enough but the feeds I watched had issues with frames skipping or stuttering with camera pans or motion.

I watched some of the Super Bowl on both with the same settings I use for everything else including my regular directv, Netflix, Hulu and some other apps on both TVs and I just couldn’t stand the motion issues I experienced. I tried several channels and programs. I was hoping to switch from directv when they inevitably let me cancel without a nice discount to stay but to me this is nowhere near ready.

I do have a PS4 I could’ve tried it on but didn’t. I’d be willing to buy a good streamer if needed but don’t believe that would solve the issue for me since the issues occurred on two different TVs. I know my network is up to the task.

If anyone else has had this issue and resolved it I’d be curious to know how. Perhaps the apps have internal settings that need to be changed or etc. Everything I watched reported 1080p and streams looked good in stats for nerds. I can deal with only 2 channel audio.
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post #590 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 02:16 AM
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I trialed YouTubeTV over the weekend on 2 different TVs. A Sony X900F using the native app for it and a TCL R617 using the roku app.

I came to the conclusion that they still have a lot of work to do. The PQ was good enough but the feeds I watched had issues with frames skipping or stuttering with camera pans or motion.

I watched some of the Super Bowl on both with the same settings I use for everything else including my regular directv, Netflix, Hulu and some other apps on both TVs and I just couldn’t stand the motion issues I experienced. I tried several channels and programs. I was hoping to switch from directv when they inevitably let me cancel without a nice discount to stay but to me this is nowhere near ready.

I do have a PS4 I could’ve tried it on but didn’t. I’d be willing to buy a good streamer if needed but don’t believe that would solve the issue for me since the issues occurred on two different TVs. I know my network is up to the task.

If anyone else has had this issue and resolved it I’d be curious to know how. Perhaps the apps have internal settings that need to be changed or etc. Everything I watched reported 1080p and streams looked good in stats for nerds. I can deal with only 2 channel audio.
I don't use the Apps built into the TVs. In general I am not a fan of. I access Youtube TV via NVidia Shields, Rokus, etc... and have none of the issues you mentioned. I watched the Super Bowl via YTTV and had zero motion issues.
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post #591 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 02:29 AM
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I don't use the Apps built into the TVs. In general I am not a fan of. I access Youtube TV via NVidia Shields, Rokus, etc... and have none of the issues you mentioned. I watched the Super Bowl via YTTV and had zero motion issues.
I watch most of my stuff using built in apps on both sets and this is the first time I’ve ever encountered an issue like this. I watch Netflix Dolby Vision no problem on both. I used HBO go, Discovery Go, CBS All Access and several others. My TCL TV has the roku built in. I guess since the PS4 Pro is so much more powerful then either I’ll install the app on there and see what it’s like. If it fixes it then when it’s time to move on from directv I’ll most likely buy a Shield. Aside from the shield which Roku is the absolute best?

Unfortunately for me only YTTV carries my locals live and that’s my primary channels I want. So I have limited options. OTA isn’t even an option as 2 of the stations are 60+ miles away. It’s certainly possible their app is in its infancy on both of my TVs and the cause of the issues I experienced.

PQ wise Directv is significantly better but YTTV is passable especially when it comes to price. If I didn’t only pay $40/month for it with Genie2, Showtime and 2 TVs I’d have started looking for a solution a long time ago. Now since ATT acquired it I’m assuming one year when I call to cancel they’ll just let me so am looking into other options. Thanks for the reply.
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post #592 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by acphydro View Post
I trialed YouTubeTV over the weekend on 2 different TVs. A Sony X900F using the native app for it and a TCL R617 using the roku app.

I came to the conclusion that they still have a lot of work to do. The PQ was good enough but the feeds I watched had issues with frames skipping or stuttering with camera pans or motion.

I watched some of the Super Bowl on both with the same settings I use for everything else including my regular directv, Netflix, Hulu and some other apps on both TVs and I just couldn’t stand the motion issues I experienced. I tried several channels and programs. I was hoping to switch from directv when they inevitably let me cancel without a nice discount to stay but to me this is nowhere near ready.

I do have a PS4 I could’ve tried it on but didn’t. I’d be willing to buy a good streamer if needed but don’t believe that would solve the issue for me since the issues occurred on two different TVs. I know my network is up to the task.

If anyone else has had this issue and resolved it I’d be curious to know how. Perhaps the apps have internal settings that need to be changed or etc. Everything I watched reported 1080p and streams looked good in stats for nerds. I can deal with only 2 channel audio.
Currently (likely) transitioning from DTV (no premium channels STILL 153/month eek!) to YTTV . Watched the Stupid Bowl on each and very little if any difference in PQ. Running YTTV on native LG C8 app. I do miss the 5.1 sound on YTTV but at 110/month cheaper I can deal. But we need Philo too for HGTV, Lifetime, Discovery and Food. Will run that off Roku and still be 95 bucks ahead.

Anyone have any comments on Philo PQ/Audio?
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post #593 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 06:33 AM
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I watch most of my stuff using built in apps on both sets and this is the first time I’ve ever encountered an issue like this. I watch Netflix Dolby Vision no problem on both. I used HBO go, Discovery Go, CBS All Access and several others. My TCL TV has the roku built in. I guess since the PS4 Pro is so much more powerful then either I’ll install the app on there and see what it’s like. If it fixes it then when it’s time to move on from directv I’ll most likely buy a Shield. Aside from the shield which Roku is the absolute best?

Unfortunately for me only YTTV carries my locals live and that’s my primary channels I want. So I have limited options. OTA isn’t even an option as 2 of the stations are 60+ miles away. It’s certainly possible their app is in its infancy on both of my TVs and the cause of the issues I experienced.

PQ wise Directv is significantly better but YTTV is passable especially when it comes to price. If I didn’t only pay $40/month for it with Genie2, Showtime and 2 TVs I’d have started looking for a solution a long time ago. Now since ATT acquired it I’m assuming one year when I call to cancel they’ll just let me so am looking into other options. Thanks for the reply.
What sort of internet service do you have. I've been using YTTV for roughly 7 months and never have had frame skipping on a Roku or internal LG apps. The PQ is also better than DTV for sure so it sounds like you had been throttled down to 480p/30 due to slow internet.

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post #594 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 06:35 AM
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If you're wanting to do a serious trial on any of these services invest in a capable player like a Roku, ATV, Shield, ...
Built in apps are not the way to make your assessment. Many are underpowered and many actually have features stripped. Make sure the device you select supports the services you want to trial

You can get a ROKU stick for about $30, a Stick+ for about $40, and an Ultra for $80-90.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acphydro View Post
I trialed YouTubeTV over the weekend on 2 different TVs. A Sony X900F using the native app for it and a TCL R617 using the roku app.

I came to the conclusion that they still have a lot of work to do. The PQ was good enough but the feeds I watched had issues with frames skipping or stuttering with camera pans or motion.

I watched some of the Super Bowl on both with the same settings I use for everything else including my regular directv, Netflix, Hulu and some other apps on both TVs and I just couldn’t stand the motion issues I experienced. I tried several channels and programs. I was hoping to switch from directv when they inevitably let me cancel without a nice discount to stay but to me this is nowhere near ready.

I do have a PS4 I could’ve tried it on but didn’t. I’d be willing to buy a good streamer if needed but don’t believe that would solve the issue for me since the issues occurred on two different TVs. I know my network is up to the task.

If anyone else has had this issue and resolved it I’d be curious to know how. Perhaps the apps have internal settings that need to be changed or etc. Everything I watched reported 1080p and streams looked good in stats for nerds. I can deal with only 2 channel audio.
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Last edited by rakstr; 02-05-2019 at 06:38 AM.
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post #595 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakstr View Post
If you're wanting to do a serious trial on any of these services invest in a capable player like a Roku, ATV, Shield, ...
Built in apps are not the way to make your assessment. Many are underpowered and many actually have features stripped. Make sure the device you select supports the services you want to trial

You can get a ROKU stick for about $30, a Stick+ for about $40, and an Ultra for $80-90.
The built in ROku apps on the TCL are the same as an external ROku. From my experience with my 6 Series TCL they are identical. Only the apps on the TCL TV have access to DOlby Vision content along with HDR10. While the external ROku boxes only have access to HDR10. The Roku apps on the TCL TV have the same speed as my ROku Ultra and Streaming Stick+. And both the TCL ROku apps and external ROkus can send 7.1 DD+/Atmos from the appropriate content. As well as legacy DD and DTS.
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post #596 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The built in ROku apps on the TCL are the same as an external ROku. From my experience with my 6 Series TCL they are identical. Only the apps on the TCL TV have access to DOlby Vision content along with HDR10. While the external ROku boxes only have access to HDR10. The Roku apps on the TCL TV have the same speed as my ROku Ultra and Streaming Stick+. And both the TCL ROku apps and external ROkus can send 7.1 DD+/Atmos from the appropriate content. As well as legacy DD and DTS.
Very glad to hear this as a happy owner of the TCL 65R617.
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post #597 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acphydro View Post
I do have a PS4 I could’ve tried it on but didn’t. I’d be willing to buy a good streamer if needed but don’t believe that would solve the issue for me since the issues occurred on two different TVs. I know my network is up to the task.

If anyone else has had this issue and resolved it I’d be curious to know how. Perhaps the apps have internal settings that need to be changed or etc. Everything I watched reported 1080p and streams looked good in stats for nerds. I can deal with only 2 channel audio.
Unfortunately, there's no YouTube TV app for the PS4. I use Roku boxes (a 2016 Premiere+ and Ultra) for YTTV, and in the past year have never encountered any significant PQ issues. Streaming live TV, especially sports, is a whole different animal from watching on demand content on Netflix or Hulu. And performance varies by device. (When I had PS Vue for 20 months, there was a very noticeable difference between PS3 and PS4 performance). In the YTTV user group on Facebook, 9 times out of 10, when someone is having a performance or PQ issue no one else was having, it turns out that person was streaming via a smart TV app.
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post #598 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
What sort of internet service do you have. I've been using YTTV for roughly 7 months and never have had frame skipping on a Roku or internal LG apps. The PQ is also better than DTV for sure so it sounds like you had been throttled down to 480p/30 due to slow internet.
300mbps down and 30 up. YTTV is the only thing I’ve had an issue with. It always reports 1080p. My network is quite overpowered for a home network compared to what most people have. It’s not an internet or network issue unless it’s in their end.

Another poster mentioned PS4 not having the app so perhaps I’ll try it on my Xbox One S.
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post #599 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post
Unfortunately, there's no YouTube TV app for the PS4. I use Roku boxes (a 2016 Premiere+ and Ultra) for YTTV, and in the past year have never encountered any significant PQ issues. Streaming live TV, especially sports, is a whole different animal from watching on demand content on Netflix or Hulu. And performance varies by device. (When I had PS Vue for 20 months, there was a very noticeable difference between PS3 and PS4 performance). In the YTTV user group on Facebook, 9 times out of 10, when someone is having a performance or PQ issue no one else was having, it turns out that person was streaming via a smart TV app.
I’ve watched NFL Sunday Ticket on the PS4 Pro and the TCL roku live with no performance issues. So I’ll try the Xbox One S and see what happens. It’s significantly more power than what most people stream on. If that doesn’t clear it up then it’s definitely a YouTubeTV issue which I’ll have to wait for them to resolve.
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post #600 of 1068 Old 02-05-2019, 02:25 PM
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I had audio popping issues during the superbowl on YTTV. In the superbowl thread no one else reported this. Anyone else on YTTV notice it?
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