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post #91 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by old corps View Post
Am I understanding this correctly? You can't FF or REW on anything recorded for at least 24 hours? I'm afraid that might be a killer for me. How about when you pause live TV? I also agree with the problem of not knowing where you are when FF or REW. I was getting kinda excited about YTTV, now I not sure.
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No you are not understanding correctly. You can FF and REW you just won't be able to see what you are FFing or REWing thru. As I said "it takes a little over 24 hours for the little thumbnails to be available when using FF/REW". You can still FF/REW you just don't get the little thumbnails to see what you are FFing/REWing thru until at least 24 hours after the show airs. Hope that helps clear it up.
Also, after using YTTV for a bit it turns out that I actually like the way PSVue does it much better. I prefer the full screen view vs the little thumbnails. It is much easier to see exactly where you want to resume using the full screen view during FF/REW. I stayed with PSVue.
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post #92 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
No you are not understanding correctly. You can FF and REW you just won't be able to see what you are FFing or REWing thru. As I said "it takes a little over 24 hours for the little thumbnails to be available when using FF/REW". You can still FF/REW you just don't get the little thumbnails to see what you are FFing/REWing thru until at least 24 hours after the show airs. Hope that helps clear it up.
Also, after using YTTV for a bit it turns out that I actually like the way PSVue does it much better. I prefer the full screen view vs the little thumbnails. It is much easier to see exactly where you want to resume using the full screen view during FF/REW. I stayed with PSVue.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it! Re. YTTV again, you CAN skip ahead & back in 15 second intervals, right? I'll be taking a closer look @ PSVue as well.


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post #93 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 09:51 AM
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Just signed up for this service Yesterday. I had PS Vue for about 2 years until the price Hike. Then I went to Direct TV Now, which was great, but because there was no Android TV App available , I had to sideload a particular version of the App to get it to play on my Nvidia Shield. Casting the App on my phone worked as well.

I used the yttv free trial for one day, and that was because they had no Turner stations.

Now that Turner stations are available, I signed up for the $35 monthly payment and installed the App on my Shield. For On Demand content, probably the best video quality I've seen since PS Vue. Plus my receiver was displaying Multi-Channel audio for On Demand Content as well.

I have three local stations available, but I receive these stations via OTA Antenna. so no biggie, and I'd expect including Local Stations is one of the reasons why the prices for these types of services increase.

If there was someway to integrate this service into the Android Live TV app, this would be perfect.

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post #94 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by old corps View Post
Thanks for the reply, appreciate it! Re. YTTV again, you CAN skip ahead & back in 15 second intervals, right? I'll be taking a closer look @ PSVue as well.


Ed
10 second intervals just like PSVue.

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post #95 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 10:23 AM
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I too was staying away from Youtube TV because of the lack of CNN.

Since that now has been remedied, and since I can now get Youtube TV for only $35 a month as long as I sign up before March 13th, this has now become a live option for me. I've been on Vue since November '16.

I'm doing the free trial now. Went cold turkey on Vue and will try to stick to that until the free trial is over next week and I make up my mind.

Pluses: the price, obviously. And the fact that they have two of my like-to-have channels at their lowest tier, BBC World News and Turner Classic Movies, which are only available on Vue at a higher tier.

Minuses: no real visible fast forward/rewind (a problem that many people have mentioned in this thread), no look-ahead guide beyond the next program, no look-ahead guide for individual channels beyond the next 24 hours. And I'm dreading the moment when I first come across a show that I've recorded where I haven't been able to get to it until the recording gets swapped with the mandatory commercials On-Demand version; that could be a deal-killer for me.

So far, I'm not happy. This feels like a step down from Vue, but I will suspend final judgement until the end of the week, because this might simply be a question of getting used to something different.

Someone mentioned that customer support is good (Vue support is horrible). How do I contact customer support? Do they have a phone number where I can talk to a real human being? There is no apparent page with that info on the web site that I can see. Also is there an official customer forum for Youtube TV somewhere? PS Vue has one, although Vue support staff treat it like crap.

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post #96 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 01:29 PM
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Has anybody been able to pin down when 5.1 sound will be available?

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post #97 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 04:45 PM
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Cancelled today.
Lasted 4 days.
Liked many things especially the addition of Turner channels and DVR.

Using Frontier Fios 50/50 with ATV4K.
PQ compared to DTVN was noticeably lesser, enough to drop the free trial (which was a pretty good trick by itself).
DTVN's DVR is iffy at this time but with my DVR+ I'm pretty well covered.

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post #98 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberguyjeff View Post
Has anybody been able to pin down when 5.1 sound will be available?
Don't even think it's a blip on the radar. OTT services are trying to get costs down, really not worth the investment in extra bandwidth and licensing. Many networks providers don't send the stream with DD. Just simulate it, you won't tell the difference
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post #99 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lewlew View Post
Cancelled today.
Lasted 4 days.
Liked many things especially the addition of Turner channels and DVR.

Using Frontier Fios 50/50 with ATV4K.
PQ compared to DTVN was noticeably lesser, enough to drop the free trial (which was a pretty good trick by itself).
DTVN's DVR is iffy at this time but with my DVR+ I'm pretty well covered.
I’m really surprised about your assessment of PQ. I ran the Apple Developer HUD on, YTTV, PS Vue, Hulu, and DTVN and just focusing on resolution and frame rate and I ranked YTTV first (they have consistent 1080p/30fps for non sports and 720p/60fps sport channels. Hulu is second and although they are 720p/60fps for most regular programming their on-demand and their own Hulu content (eg Handsmade Tales) is 1080p. PS Vue is 720p/60fps but is consistently good so they take third. DTVN was jittery and much of the content I saw during the trial was 30fps and of lower quality. Not as bad as Sling but not in the top 3 either. I’m sure they will get much better (they have to if they want to achieve their goals of 4K, DVR and quality sound) but for now I’m not a fan.

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post #100 of 2219 Old 02-16-2018, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’m really surprised about your assessment of PQ.
What can I say, the CNN crawl looked like it was alive (all squiggly edges). Even my wife who has less than wonderful vision pointed it out.
Some times it looked like the bit rate was starved and/or resolution. The DTVN is rock solid on bit rate and resolution as judged by perceived PQ.
Both apps (YTTV & DTVN) were on the same ATV4K feeding the same Samsung tv.
Maybe the particular servers that cover my area in the Pacific Northwest have different capabilities for different apps.

I haven't tried all the other free trials yet, but will soon.

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post #101 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lewlew View Post
What can I say, the CNN crawl looked like it was alive (all squiggly edges). Even my wife who has less than wonderful vision pointed it out.
Some times it looked like the bit rate was starved and/or resolution. The DTVN is rock solid on bit rate and resolution as judged by perceived PQ.
Both apps (YTTV & DTVN) were on the same ATV4K feeding the same Samsung tv.
Maybe the particular servers that cover my area in the Pacific Northwest have different capabilities for different apps.

I haven't tried all the other free trials yet, but will soon.
I'm in the PNW too. PQ on the NBC stations for the Olympics have been fantastic. Just checked CNN, and it took a minute to get to good quality, but once there it looked good. Same for TBS (a random other new channel I just checked). I watch via the Xbox app and on the native LG TV app, and I have 1Gig fiber to my house (and my wired network is the same), so perhaps it's a bandwidth/wifi issue?
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post #102 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 04:12 PM
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For the last 2 years I've been on a super-skinny $50/month cable TV and internet bundle simply because it was the cheapest way to get the internet speed I wanted (previously 75mbps, but recently the plan was upgraded to 125mbps, both with 1TB/month cap)... the only cheaper option would have been $30/month for 10mbps with a 250gb/month cap which would not be fast enough nor a high enough cap. For TV outside of the slim package (which is mostly just what's available OTA anyway) I've been using a friend's DISH account to activate individual apps. What I've missed most has been Golf channel. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on YTTV after having done a few different free trials with DTVN, SlingTV, FuboTV, and most recently Hulu Live. The recent addition of Roku support for YTTV has pushed me over the edge, as I'm using Roku in some form everywhere but the theater which is ShieldTV.

I'm in the free trial now, but I'll start my subscription immediately after (ahead of the price increase). YTTV seems to have the best balance for me personally including the following highlights:

- Better-than-most Roku UI
- Better-than-most DVR capacity
- Most simultaneous screens without add-ons (I don't have PS3/PS4, so I can't get all 5 with PSV)
- Lowest cost to get Golf Channel and locals together
- Can signup with second home as primary location to get locals there and use my skinny cable package for locals at home
- Multiple DVR profiles (myself, kids, others who use second home)

Negatives of YTTV, specific to my situation, are pretty limited and borderline nit-picking:

- No Amazon Fire TV Stick app (I keep one in my briefcase for work travel, but I have a spare Roku Express I can use instead)
- Fast expiration of 3rd party app authorizations (might get annoying, mostly for the kids who are used to using DisneyNow)
- One more simultaneous stream would likely come in handy when the kids are at my house but someone else is at the second home

Disqualifiers for other services were:

- FuboTV - Price increase, terrible Roku interface, limited DVR, can't authorize 3rd-party apps
- DirecTV Now - High price to get Golf Channel, DVR still coming soon
- SlingTV - Too many add-ons to get Golf + Locals
- PS Vue - Limited locals available at second home, higher price, more simultaneous screens only available with PS3/PS4 hardware
- Hulu Live - High price with 4-screen add-on and commercial-free add-on (required for FFW during DVR commercials)

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post #103 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 04:36 PM
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For the last 2 years I've been on a super-skinny $50/month cable TV and internet bundle simply because it was the cheapest way to get the internet speed I wanted (previously 75mbps, but recently the plan was upgraded to 125mbps, both with 1TB/month cap)... the only cheaper option would have been $30/month for 10mbps with a 250gb/month cap which would not be fast enough nor a high enough cap. For TV outside of the slim package (which is mostly just what's available OTA anyway) I've been using a friend's DISH account to activate individual apps. What I've missed most has been Golf channel. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on YTTV after having done a few different free trials with DTVN, SlingTV, FuboTV, and most recently Hulu Live. The recent addition of Roku support for YTTV has pushed me over the edge, as I'm using Roku in some form everywhere but the theater which is ShieldTV.

I'm in the free trial now, but I'll start my subscription immediately after (ahead of the price increase). YTTV seems to have the best balance for me personally including the following highlights:

- Better-than-most Roku UI
- Better-than-most DVR capacity
- Most simultaneous screens without add-ons (I don't have PS3/PS4, so I can't get all 5 with PSV)
- Lowest cost to get Golf Channel and locals together
- Can signup with second home as primary location to get locals there and use my skinny cable package for locals at home
- Multiple DVR profiles (myself, kids, others who use second home)

Negatives of YTTV, specific to my situation, are pretty limited and borderline nit-picking:

- No Amazon Fire TV Stick app (I keep one in my briefcase for work travel, but I have a spare Roku Express I can use instead)
- Fast expiration of 3rd party app authorizations (might get annoying, mostly for the kids who are used to using DisneyNow)
- One more simultaneous stream would likely come in handy when the kids are at my house but someone else is at the second home

Disqualifiers for other services were:

- FuboTV - Price increase, terrible Roku interface, limited DVR, can't authorize 3rd-party apps
- DirecTV Now - High price to get Golf Channel, DVR still coming soon
- SlingTV - Too many add-ons to get Golf + Locals
- PS Vue - Limited locals available at second home, higher price, more simultaneous screens only available with PS3/PS4 hardware
- Hulu Live - High price with 4-screen add-on and commercial-free add-on (required for FFW during DVR commercials)
Good luck and let us know how you like it after a month or two. Slight correction to your understanding of the number of simultaneous streams on PS Vue. It’s 5 streams total no matter what device EXCEPT if 2 or 3 of those devices are PS3 or 4.


https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ne...eous-streaming

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post #104 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 04:39 PM
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Good luck and let us know how you like it after a month or two. Slight correction to your understanding of the number of simultaneous streams on PS Vue. It’s 5 streams total no matter what device EXCEPT if 2 or 3 of those devices are PS3 or 4.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ne...eous-streaming
Thanks for the clarification. The lack of all locals eliminated it anyway, though 5 streams would have been nice and possibly enough to pay the $45/month.

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post #105 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 04:47 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. The lack of all locals eliminated it anyway, though 5 streams would have been nice and possibly enough to pay the $45/month.


Wow, it’s $39.99 here in the L.A. area. I don’t think PSV will allow a second home AND locals at the same time though so it sounds like you picked a good option for you.


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post #106 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 05:03 PM
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Minuses: no real visible fast forward/rewind (a problem that many people have mentioned in this thread)
I haven't tried all the interfaces, but using Chrome on a Windows 7 PC: You place the mouse along a spot on the menu bar, and it shows you small video images. Click to start there. Not quite continuously - it jumps in maybe 20 or 30 second intervals.

Once in a while those images are suppressed - I'm not sure why.

Also, you usually can't fast forward through ads.

Not as great as old fashioned VCRs were, but nothing will ever be that convenient again.
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post #107 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 05:20 PM
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- Better-than-most DVR capacity
There's a real gotcha in the small print for the Youtube TV, which is why I didn't mention Youtube's DVR capability as one of its pluses.

Yes, it will maintain availability of your recordings longer than any other service, nine months. But there are so many strings attached that it's not worth it. Yes, there are other reasons to go with Youtube TV but the DVR capability is not one of them.

Here's why.

They claim nine months. That's a lie. They only keep it for nine months if no On Demand copy is released by the content provider. If an OD copy is released, even if it's only the next day, your own recording goes bye-bye. Why is that a problem? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FAST FORWARD THROUGH THE COMMERCIALS ON THE OD COPIES. Really, really lame.

Now take a look at the Vue DVR. Yes, it says only 28 days, but that's not really accurate. Your own recordings, with the commercials through which you can quickly and easily fast forward, no problem, do last for only 28 days. However, at the end of that time, if the content provider has supplied an OD copy, you have access to that OD copy for way longer than 28 days. I've had some OD copies in my Vue favorites shows that have lasted well beyond the nine-month mark.

In other words, Vue understates the strength of its DVR, Youtube TV overstates it. And, on balance, the Vue DVR is much better. In fact, I think it's the best DVR there is from any of the live OTT services.
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post #108 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 05:24 PM
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I haven't tried all the interfaces, but using Chrome on a Windows 7 PC: You place the mouse along a spot on the menu bar, and it shows you small video images. Click to start there. Not quite continuously - it jumps in maybe 20 or 30 second intervals.
That's very very nice! Thanks! It's a pity I can't do that on my phone through ChromeCast. I don't have a Roku or Apple TV. Can one do that with Youtube TV when on the Roku or the Apple TV?
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post #109 of 2219 Old 02-17-2018, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lewlew View Post
Cancelled today.
Lasted 4 days.
Liked many things especially the addition of Turner channels and DVR.

Using Frontier Fios 50/50 with ATV4K.
PQ compared to DTVN was noticeably lesser, enough to drop the free trial (which was a pretty good trick by itself).
DTVN's DVR is iffy at this time but with my DVR+ I'm pretty well covered.
I'm assuming PQ as well as stream stability is dependent on many factors. I was using NBCSports app watching Olympics with fantastic PQ and stability while at the same time Twitter posts were non stop that app was freezing, picture stuttering, over a 6 hour window.

I started the YouTube TV Free Trial after several frustrating months using SlingTV on Apple TV. The Apple TV specific DVR failures on SlingTV, and the just released YouTube TV app for Apple TV made the decision easy. YouTube TV has near Xfinity quality HD streams, while SlingTV was always just economical.

The YouTube TV DVR works, which I couldn't say for SlingTV, ( at least not reliable on Apple TV). It also seems to me, Youtube TV allows more channels to be recorded than SlingTV did. Channel Master DVR+ may be enough to keep some covered, but I want more than my locals recorded, ( not a dig on DVR+ by any means).
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post #110 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 06:56 AM
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Well, I'm a current Vue user, and I'm giving the Youtube TV service a free trial because they finally added CNN, one of my must-have channels. Obvious advantages up front: a lower price $35 a month versus Vue's $40 a month (goes away on March 13th, so I have until then to decide, in a way, though my free trial ends on the 20th), BBC World News and Turner Classic Movies on the lowest tier, two of my like-to-have channels.

So far, however, I'm not really liking it.

Yes, I've not encountered any major glitches, and, yes, the picture quality is superior. Any channel that is in 1080 shows up on Youtube TV in 1080, any 720 channel shows up as 720. This is in marked contrast to Vue, which reprocesses everything into 720.

However squeezing everything control-wise into my phone, and depending solely on ChromeCast to watch it on my main TV feels quite limiting (although not as inconvenient as it did the first day or so).

I have a real concern about the fact that YTV's DVR recordings disappear the moment On Demand copies are released by the content provider, because those OD copies have commercials through which one CANNOT fast forward. As a result, I feel a lot of pressure to watch my recordings within hours of having recorded them, and I don't like that kind of pressure.

More and more, I'm thinking the ideal DVR experience has to incorporate a Download and Go-type feature. There are programs I'd like to save long-term, and it is rumored that DirecTV Now may make that available when they roll out their DVR in the spring. The ability to save programs long-term on my local hard drive is very appealing; it restores the power we used to have with our VCR recorders, and which I sorely miss. Yes, unlimited cloud DVR relieves the pressure to constantly decide what to delete and what to save, which was indeed a pain. And I'd never want to go back to the days of Verizon FIOS, when I was constantly doing housekeeping on my DVR recordings. Still, local storage should at least be an option.

Most importantly, however, I really miss the ability to have a standalone device that I can use to watch TV, without tying up my phone or my computer. I have a Fire TV, which offers the best interface for Vue, but google and Amazon are currently in a pissing contest over something-or-other, so Youtube TV is not coming to Fire TV any time soon.

Which means that if I just can't take the phone interface any more, I have to buy a Roku or an Apple TV.

In the case of Vue, there were sharp differences in quality between their various STB aps, with the wildly overpriced PS4 and the Fire TV being the best, which is why I purchased a Fire TV in the first place.

I presume therefore that there is a difference in the quality of the Youtube TV user experience between the Roku ap and the Apple TV ap. Are there folks here who use the Roku Youtube TV ap? Are there folks here who use the Apple TV Roku ap? Which is better? What are the differences?

Part of what's going on here is that I really want to give YTV every chance to convince me. It represents a saving of $60 a year if I get it before March 13th, so I feel an obligation to bend over backward to give it every opportunity to make the sale with me. Buying additional hardware is never a deal-killer with me. One never knows when such additional hardware might not come in handy and it can never hurt (aside from the one-time impact of the purchase, and I figure I can always borrow and repay myself if I want to be really persnickety with my budget).

If I can go with an STB that has a satisfactory user experience, am I willing to forego DVR recordings where I can fast forward through commercials? That is obviously a major commitment of time in exchange for a $60 savings, and I could quite possibly decide it's not worth it. Still, I feel I need to experience the superior Youtube TV experience that would come with a Roku or Apple TV before I definitively reject it.
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post #111 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 10:23 AM
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Well, I'm a current Vue user, and I'm giving the Youtube TV service a free trial because they finally added CNN, one of my must-have channels. Obvious advantages up front: a lower price $35 a month versus Vue's $40 a month (goes away on March 13th, so I have until then to decide, in a way, though my free trial ends on the 20th), BBC World News and Turner Classic Movies on the lowest tier, two of my like-to-have channels.

So far, however, I'm not really liking it.

If I can go with an STB that has a satisfactory user experience, am I willing to forego DVR recordings where I can fast forward through commercials? That is obviously a major commitment of time in exchange for a $60 savings, and I could quite possibly decide it's not worth it. Still, I feel I need to experience the superior Youtube TV experience that would come with a Roku or Apple TV before I definitively reject it.

You could buy an ATV4K for $105 that comes with a 3 month trial of DTVN.
Then you could compare how you like both YTTV and DTVN from the same device.

A small but uncomfortable thing for me about YTTV was the individual clicks to scroll the channel lineup. I may have missed something but I could not figure a way around this or how to make a "favorites list" to avoid having to scroll one click at a time through the stuff I did not plan to watch.

I still can not explain why my PQ on YTTV was visually lesser than the DTVN on my ATV4K.

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post #112 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 10:34 AM
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You could buy an ATV4K for $105 that comes with a 3 month trial of DTVN.
Then you could compare how you like both YTTV and DTVN from the same device.
Thank you for the suggestion. How much is the ATV4K if I forego the DTVN trial? I ask because, at the moment, I have no interest in DTVN. One might make the argument that, regardless, if one has a chance at checking out an alternative service it makes sense to do.

However, in DTVN's case, I doubt that is the case. To begin with, until they roll out their DVR service, there's very little chance I would ever seriously consider them. Moreover, there are rampant rumors that when they finally get around to that rollout, it may very well become an entirely different service with even a different pricing structure. Which means any road-testing of the service right now might yield results that wind up being largely irrelevant once the DVR and the new pricing structure goes on line.

Of course, one could argue that any chance to try out a service for free should be given serious consideration. To which I reply sure, if the chance does not involve spending extra bucks one would not pay otherwise. But if the price of the ATV4K minus the DTVN sweetener is less than $105, the case for the DTVN offer basically collapses for me.

At which point, I'm back to wanting to hear feedback on both the Apple TV experience with Youtube TV and the Roku experience with Youtube TV.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ATV4K= $169-$179 all by itself, depending where you get it.

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ATV4K= $169-$179 all by itself, depending where you get it.
Thanks! That certainly strengthens the case for getting the ATV4k for $105, particularly if the service itself is free for three months.

As I understand it, there are a gazillion Roku devices. I have absolutely no idea which one is appropriate for me. I have a Vizio Smart TV, and a Fire TV. I'm looking to buy a Roku that would perform the same role with Youtube TV and my Vizio that my Fire TV currently plays with Vue and my Vizio. So which Roku should I get? And I realize, given their plethora of devices, that there very well may be two or more such Roku devices, so I'm looking for some advice on that score. And how do the Roku prices compare with the $105 for the ATV4K?
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I personally had less than stellar results with the ROKU Ultra.
I liked the vast number of apps that were available and the easy UI.
I was unable to get the HDMI handshake to settle down, so I returned it to BB and got a second ATV4K.

I was just kidding you about the $105 for the ATV4K.
It's really a prepayment of 3 months of DTVN (cheapest=$35/mo) and they give you an ATV4K just for signing up, cancel anytime.

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post #116 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 03:42 PM
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Thanks! That certainly strengthens the case for getting the ATV4k for $105, particularly if the service itself is free for three months.

As I understand it, there are a gazillion Roku devices. I have absolutely no idea which one is appropriate for me. I have a Vizio Smart TV, and a Fire TV. I'm looking to buy a Roku that would perform the same role with Youtube TV and my Vizio that my Fire TV currently plays with Vue and my Vizio. So which Roku should I get? And I realize, given their plethora of devices, that there very well may be two or more such Roku devices, so I'm looking for some advice on that score. And how do the Roku prices compare with the $105 for the ATV4K?
Speaking as someone who has both ATV 4 and a Roku Premier Plus....I would say try this, avoid the USB sticks they can't do wired ethernet
2017 Roku Ultra Details:
  • 802.11ac MIMO dual-band wireless
  • 10/100 Base-T Ethernet
  • 4K UHD HDR TVs – Supports HDR10 technology
  • Power, HDMI 2.0a, Ethernet 10/100, microSD, USB
  • Audio features
  • DTS Digital Surround™ pass through over HDMI®
  • Night listening mode
  • microSD card slot for additional channel storage
  • USB port for local playback
  • Voice remote with TV power and volume buttons as well as voice search, headphone jack, and gaming buttons
  • Speaker for lost remote finder alerts
  • Player includes IR receiver, compatible with various universal remotes
New an Ultra is around 90 dollars, Factory refurbished around 70 dollars. Also consider a refurbished Premier Plus they are around 55 dollars, same basic performance but no voice search or remote finder. Also no TV power or vol controls on the remote. The Premier Plus was replaced by the 2017 Ultra. Please note, neither of the units will be updated to Dolby Vision.
Link to current Roku products..https://image.roku.com/ww/docs/compa...ucts-en-us.pdf

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Speaking as someone who has both ATV 4 and a Roku Premier Plus....I would say...2017 Roku Ultra
The Ultra is available from my neighborhood Best Buy for $99.99. In addition, they have a Roku Express for $30. I notice no one has mentioned the Roku Express. Is the Express really bad? Since I'm someone who's used to the Fire TV, will I find the Ultra far closer to my Fire TV experience than the Roku Express?
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post #118 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 04:16 PM
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The Ultra is available from my neighborhood Best Buy for $99.99. In addition, they have a Roku Express for $30. I notice no one has mentioned the Roku Express. Is the Express really bad? Since I'm someone who's used to the Fire TV, will I find the Ultra far closer to my Fire TV experience than the Roku Express?
Ultra is less on Amazon, the Express in the guts of a stick in a box, no hardwired ethernet either. It's not slow but wireless only devices are the road to pain. Ultra is the most comparable to what the Fire TV can do.

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post #119 of 2219 Old 02-18-2018, 04:21 PM
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Ultra is less on Amazon, the Express in the guts of a stick in a box, no hardwired ethernet either. It's not slow but wireless only devices are the road to pain. Ultra is the most comparable to what the Fire TV can do.
Thanks.

In that case, I think I'll forego any purchase for YTV since $100 is simply too steep for a service I probably won't even keep. The fact is I'm unhappy with the service, I have yet to deal with one of the On Demand copies that replace my own recordings, with their attendant commercials and, unless that experience (I'll be checking out my Thursday recordings tonight to see how bad that is) is surprisingly less annoying and frustrating than I expect it to be, I'll be cancelling the service on Tuesday.

Basically, YTV has 48 hours to change my mind, and so far they're doing a terrible job of it.
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ATV4K= $169-$179 all by itself, depending where you get it.
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Thanks! That certainly strengthens the case for getting the ATV4k for $105, particularly if the service itself is free for three months.
The list prices are:

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