Ripping Blu Ray & DVD to Playback Over Home Network - Solutions? Quality Loss? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 81 Old 08-22-2017, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
Can I rip the video from the Blu-ray and the audio from the DVD and combine them?
Sure. Get the mkvtoolnix package and use the merge GUI to mux in the extra stream. You'll probably need to do some work getting the audio to sync up, however - the DVD and the BD will likely differ by a few seconds. I would mux it all together once, use VLC's track synchronization adjustment to figure out the right delay, and then mux it again once you've got the delay figured out. You could also convert both audio tracks to wav's and then compare them with a waveform viewer if you wanted to be more precise.
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post #62 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tppytel View Post
Sure. Get the mkvtoolnix package and use the merge GUI to mux in the extra stream. You'll probably need to do some work getting the audio to sync up, however - the DVD and the BD will likely differ by a few seconds. I would mux it all together once, use VLC's track synchronization adjustment to figure out the right delay, and then mux it again once you've got the delay figured out. You could also convert both audio tracks to wav's and then compare them with a waveform viewer if you wanted to be more precise.
Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a shot.
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post #63 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 07:46 AM
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MakeMKV, if you want 1:1 BD Rips this is all you will need.

A Solid Wireless AC Network which will easily stream those movies to devices like the Shield, Oppo 203/205, or a PC.
These devices through Plex or Kodi will alow for Lossless Audio, including Atmos and DTS:X.

No need to transcode to these devices because they are more than capable of "Direct Play" via Plex or Kodi.

or

A Solid wired Gb Network.


Network Infrastructure and your Server IMO are two main components that should be considered if you are building a library of 1:1 BD Rips.

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post #64 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
These devices through Plex or Kodi will alow for Lossless Audio, including Atmos and DTS:X.

No need to transcode to these devices because they are more than capable of "Direct Play" via Plex or Kodi.
Plex on the Shield also has the ability to natively read PGS/SUP subtitles without the need for the server to burn them in (which requires transcoding). Most other Plex clients can't do that. I haven't tested but I would assume the PC version does, since PC Plex generally supports every option. I don't know about the Oppo's client. It looks like Kodi supports external subs too, but I don't have any experience with it. Of course, if you rarely watch anything with subtitles this doesn't matter much.

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A Solid wired Gb Network.
A powerline adapter can also provide enough bandwidth if wireless or Cat5/6 aren't feasible. A 1:1 BD rip will be 25-30mbps - we get about 50mbps on the TP-Link AV2000. But powerlines depend on the quirks of your home's wiring and there's no good way to predict how well they'll actually work until you plug them in and try it out.

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Network Infrastructure and your Server IMO are two main components that should be considered if you are building a library of 1:1 BD Rips.
The server will obviously need plenty of storage (~25GB per movie, a little more with extras), but it may not need much horsepower depending on your setup. If all you're doing is pushing MKV's to Plex clients that will absolutely never need transcoding, then you can get away with a basic NAS. But if you're going to have people watching on tablets or want remote access or whatever, then you probably want to build a server with processing power appropriate to the number of simultaneous transcodes you need to support.
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post #65 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 10:14 AM
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If it is a MKV or MP4 file, you can use MKVToolNix... After adding the video in the program, you can insert the audio track into the bottom window to merge. You have to make sure the audio track is synched for it to work. Make sure you delete the audio track that is not going to be used.

I believe you can adjust the timing in the program if the audio track is offset. But if the timing is non-linear, e.g. starts off okay but is out of synch at the end, it's not going to work. This happens when the movie run time is different than the audio run time...

I was able to use this program to convert an English-dubbed video and insert the Japanese audio track.

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post #66 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tppytel View Post
Plex on the Shield also has the ability to natively read PGS/SUP subtitles without the need for the server to burn them in (which requires transcoding). Most other Plex clients can't do that. I haven't tested but I would assume the PC version does, since PC Plex generally supports every option. I don't know about the Oppo's client. It looks like Kodi supports external subs too, but I don't have any experience with it. Of course, if you rarely watch anything with subtitles this doesn't matter much.




A powerline adapter can also provide enough bandwidth if wireless or Cat5/6 aren't feasible. A 1:1 BD rip will be 25-30mbps - we get about 50mbps on the TP-Link AV2000. But powerlines depend on the quirks of your home's wiring and there's no good way to predict how well they'll actually work until you plug them in and try it out.
I don't watch that much content requiring Subtitles but I have this confiigured through Plex. I haven't had the Oppo 203 for long but it plays content just as fast as the Shield. I haven't focused on any subtitles for this player. I tend to browse the file directories on my Freenas through my Oppo as opposed to Plex. I've found that it takes a bit longer to start up a stream through the Plex DLNA Service using the Oppo.

I have a Netgear R6250 Wireless AC Router and a Linksys WUMC710 Media Bridge which is strictly a 5GHZ AC device. My NAS is upstairs in the bedroom and is connected to the Media Bridge. The Shield and Oppo are attached to my wireless router downstairs via ethernet. This allows for me to stream without any transcoding. This setup is not ideal for everyone's network, but the possibility of creating a similar environment is there. Streaming the same content to my phone or tablet, which requires transcoding works as well. My NAS Server has dated hardware. A Dell Zino HD upgraded with a Quad-Core AMD Phenom with 8 Gigs of DDR3, now running Freenas.

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post #67 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tppytel View Post
Plex on the Shield also has the ability to natively read PGS/SUP subtitles without the need for the server to burn them in (which requires transcoding). Most other Plex clients can't do that. I haven't tested but I would assume the PC version does, since PC Plex generally supports every option. I don't know about the Oppo's client. It looks like Kodi supports external subs too, but I don't have any experience with it. Of course, if you rarely watch anything with subtitles this doesn't matter much.


A powerline adapter can also provide enough bandwidth if wireless or Cat5/6 aren't feasible. A 1:1 BD rip will be 25-30mbps - we get about 50mbps on the TP-Link AV2000. But powerlines depend on the quirks of your home's wiring and there's no good way to predict how well they'll actually work until you plug them in and try it out.


The server will obviously need plenty of storage (~25GB per movie, a little more with extras), but it may not need much horsepower depending on your setup. If all you're doing is pushing MKV's to Plex clients that will absolutely never need transcoding, then you can get away with a basic NAS. But if you're going to have people watching on tablets or want remote access or whatever, then you probably want to build a server with processing power appropriate to the number of simultaneous transcodes you need to support.
Pretty good info here.

The wireline adapters have one critical requirement - both of the outlets that the devices are plugged into have to be on the same "bus" in the panel. If the breakers that control both outlets are on the same side as each other, you should be ok.

BD rips are all over the map in terms of size as they are mostly related to the original quality they were recorded in. Avatar and the Lord of the Rings movies are roughly 40G while the BD version of Bram Stoker's Dracula is somewhere around 7G. Many of my BD rips are somewhere in the 18-25G range, so 25G as an average probably isn't a bad guideline.

While the server doesn't really need a lot of horsepower if you aren't transcoding, it absolutely SHOULD have a gigabit NIC and have a decent amount of RAM to work with. This facilitates the ability to serve multiple clients at once. Additionally, if you intend to give external access (Plex specific comment here, although may apply to others), then you will need to be able to transcode as your upload speeds to the Internet will not support native mode streaming of content.

I've tried building a Plex server with "very old" hardware, and it just doesn't work well in the long run. Booting, restarting the service, installing updates, and even the performance of your clients is affected. If you can get a machine produced in the last 5-6 years as your base, you should be able to run a nice setup. I use HGST Deskstar NAS drives in my machines as they are rated for 1,000,000 hours MTBF. That's a CRAZY amount of time to be able to be powered on with the expectation of no failures.

While I generally don't worry about subtitles, I do rip all of my content with MakeMKV (makemkvcli specifically - headless machine) and then post-process with HandBrake to burn in forced subtitles (subtitles for on-screen dialog that is in a different language than the movie). I also leverage the compression of HandBrake and end up seeing roughly a 70% decrease in file size with no discernible quality drop to the naked eye even on my 75" 4K TV.
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post #68 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 12:30 PM
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The wireline adapters have one critical requirement - both of the outlets that the devices are plugged into have to be on the same "bus" in the panel. If the breakers that control both outlets are on the same side as each other, you should be ok.
Are you sure that's universally true? I don't recall our adapter's manual saying anything about it. It only noted that performance would be better if the two links were on the same circuit. I think our ~50mbps link is across different circuits, but our wiring is old and crazy and I don't feel like powering things off right now to check. I've never studied the underlying technology of these devices.

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While the server doesn't really need a lot of horsepower if you aren't transcoding, it absolutely SHOULD have a gigabit NIC...
There's no reason not to go with gigabit everywhere these days, with hardware as cheap as it is. But I'd also add that a gigabit path between whatever computer you're ripping on (assuming you're not headless) and the server will be greatly appreciated. There's always going to be some amount of tweaking involved when you're setting up, and waiting for a 25GB rip to copy over a 10/100 link so that you can access it gets old really fast. That's what finally got me off my butt to replace my old 10/100 switch.

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I also leverage the compression of HandBrake and end up seeing roughly a 70% decrease in file size with no discernible quality drop to the naked eye even on my 75" 4K TV.
That sounds ambitious to me, but I only did some light testing of this when I was setting up my Plex server. I found I could go down to about 10-12 mbps for the video bitrate without seeing any difference - about a 50% reduction. But that was on a very modest screen. Maybe now that I've got a new 65C7 I'll test again out of curiosity. Personally, I figure storage is a relatively cheap and easy problem to solve. If I went and reencoded everything, I just know I would eventually see some artifact somewhere, and then I'd obsess over every other rip in the library. If I keep it all lossless I know I'll never have to worry about it. And I aim for quality over quantity in my Plex library anyway. It just depends on what you want... a library with a goal of 2000 movies will require different considerations than one for 200 movies.
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post #69 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tppytel View Post
Are you sure that's universally true? I don't recall our adapter's manual saying anything about it. It only noted that performance would be better if the two links were on the same circuit. I think our ~50mbps link is across different circuits, but our wiring is old and crazy and I don't feel like powering things off right now to check. I've never studied the underlying technology of these devices.
Yes, it's a requirement. The typical guidance is to use them on the same circuit, but you can use them "across breakers" as long as the breakers are connected to the same bus in the background. Certain breakers can filter some of the signaling and cause issues, though. On the same circuit, it will work. Across circuits on the same side of the panel, it will work. Across circuits that are on different sides of the panel - it will work as long as it's a common bus and hasn't been split inside the panel.

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There's no reason not to go with gigabit everywhere these days, with hardware as cheap as it is. But I'd also add that a gigabit path between whatever computer you're ripping on (assuming you're not headless) and the server will be greatly appreciated. There's always going to be some amount of tweaking involved when you're setting up, and waiting for a 25GB rip to copy over a 10/100 link so that you can access it gets old really fast. That's what finally got me off my butt to replace my old 10/100 switch.
I've had absolutely no issues watching BluRay rips on my televisions or media devices, and they are all connected via 10/100 NIC's. As long as you aren't being limited to a 10Mb connection, you can watch high quality content whether it's streamed or local. I agree, though, that putting a gigabit NIC in your server just makes sense as you'll guarantee the most flexibility in serving multiple clients (and it's cheap).

Trying to move media files across a 10/100 network is painful when all you're doing is moving the file from the rip station to the media server. Gig cards (and a switch) are absolutely the way to go.

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That sounds ambitious to me, but I only did some light testing of this when I was setting up my Plex server. I found I could go down to about 10-12 mbps for the video bitrate without seeing any difference - about a 50% reduction. But that was on a very modest screen. Maybe now that I've got a new 65C7 I'll test again out of curiosity. Personally, I figure storage is a relatively cheap and easy problem to solve. If I went and reencoded everything, I just know I would eventually see some artifact somewhere, and then I'd obsess over every other rip in the library. If I keep it all lossless I know I'll never have to worry about it. And I aim for quality over quantity in my Plex library anyway. It just depends on what you want... a library with a goal of 2000 movies will require different considerations than one for 200 movies.
I have 600GB of movie data that I just finished processing and ended up with roughly 149GB of space required for the compressed content. I did a -LOT- of test rips using all kinds of different settings and some different tools and have found no distinguishable difference in PQ with the settings I'm currently using. As it's all entirely automated, all I have to do is move my content into a work directory and launch a script. Everything is automatically moved around behind the scenes as the content is being compressed and then it all lands back in my Plex server when it's done.
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post #70 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 01:45 PM
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Fiddling around with Handbrake's compression controls make a difference in the end result. Ripping a movie in Super HQ or HQ mode is sharper than Fast or Fastest mode. But you pay for the quality, transcoding in SQH can takes a couple of hours or more on a high-end i7 rig. In the fast mode, the same rip can be done in 20-30 minutes.

When transcoding in SHQ mode, I find that the detail in the end 4-5GB file to be very close to the original file, what comes into play is some gradient issues but it is very infrequent, visible only in fast motion scenes.

Of course, the original source plays a big factor. Recent releases are lot cleaner than older movies.

You could use Intel's QSV transcoder that in built-in on some CPUs. That speeds up transcoding tremendously, reducing the time from two-three hours to 30-40 minutes. The drawback is that the end file is considerably bigger (20-30%) than what the software-based transcoder that Handbrake uses. Another note is that the QSV transcoded movie is not as detailed (but the difference is very slight but detectable on close inspection) as the software file.

Using Handbrake judiciously will save you a lot of space. On movies I really like, I reduce the compression for a better quality movie. On movies that are of dubious quality, I will increase compression. This way, I save about 75% of disk space.

On a side note, i view my movies on a 96" screen, so the differences are more noticeable.

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post #71 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 01:54 PM
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All of my compression is done in software using this on the command line: --preset="HQ 1080p30 Surround"

I am running a linux instance on XenServer, sitting on a HP Z800 workstation. The bare metal has dual hexacore 3.33 CPU's, I have HyperThreading on, and I have allocated 6vCPU's and 16G of RAM to this instance. It takes anywhere from about 90 minutes to three hours to completely process a file, depending on the original size.
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post #72 of 81 Old 08-23-2017, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
Is there a way to add an audio track to a rip? I have a movie where the Blu-ray release only has stereo Japanese audio. However, my DVD version has DTS Japanese audio. Can I rip the video from the Blu-ray and the audio from the DVD and combine them?
Very easily. The real question is will the audio sync properly.

Use MKVmerge.

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post #73 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
MakeMKV, if you want 1:1 BD Rips this is all you will need.



A Solid Wireless AC Network which will easily stream those movies to devices like the Shield, Oppo 203/205, or a PC.

These devices through Plex or Kodi will alow for Lossless Audio, including Atmos and DTS:X.



No need to transcode to these devices because they are more than capable of "Direct Play" via Plex or Kodi.



or



A Solid wired Gb Network.





Network Infrastructure and your Server IMO are two main components that should be considered if you are building a library of 1:1 BD Rips.


Can u install Kodi on 203? As oppo does not play atmos through their own media player


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post #74 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 11:28 AM
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No, I stream movies by browsing my Freenas Server. I can browse via the Plex DLNA service but it's slower for me.

The 203 will stream Atmos btw.

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post #75 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 11:32 AM
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Can u install Kodi on 203? As oppo does not play atmos through their own media player


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The oppo does not have any apps period. And atmos streams fine on it.

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post #76 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 11:34 AM
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The oppo does not have any apps period. And atmos streams fine on it.


For me it stutters and audio stops after a while on atmos streaming through their player. I dont know how to install kodi or spmc on that


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post #77 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 11:37 AM
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You cannot install any apps on the Oppo. Use the Network Menu to browse your library stored on your Local Network. If you are having studdering issues, your Network infrastructure needs attention. Check your Cables, your Network Speeds, and check for any devices on your network that may be consuming too much bandwidth.

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post #78 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 12:03 PM
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I have no need for all the fancy interfaces of Plex or Nvidia Shield and whatnot and I like to be able to easily burn a disc if need be, so all of my movies have been copied over with their existing Blu-ray folders. For this reason I simply have an HTPC the size of a medium-to-large paperback book with MPC-HC to play all of my blu-ray movies. I have over 36TB of my movies on HDDs uncompressed in any way shape or form. I don't mind using my external HDDs to play them through the HTPC since it's more convenient for me without the need to wire ethernet cables all over the place with a 24/7 server that I wouldn't need in the first place since I don't watch movies everyday.

I come from the early days of DVDFab and now a lifetime of AnyDVD under RedFox so I never need worry about any playlist obfuscation or needing to use yet another application to ascertain the correct playlist and whatnot. I mainly get to spend my time enjoying my movies.

Just offering another, simple option.

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post #79 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 12:12 PM
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You don't need a server. You have a pc you're ripping them with. It's all you need. Very simple. Even the shield or other similar devices cost less than a HTPC and are simpler.
Swapping lots of externals is certainly not ideal or quick and is quite messy. I would so much rather run the ONE ethernet cable I would need.



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post #80 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 12:34 PM
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You don't need a server. You have a pc you're ripping them with. It's all you need. Very simple.
SuperFist is talking about 36TB of storage, so it's not that simple. You're not going to jam 36TB into a random desktop PC and get it to all share out nicely. I would suggest that using external drives is not a very scalable solution, but I can see why he chooses to go that way. Personally, I'd be looking at a desktop NAS that would at least bind all the drives together in one logical volume at that point. If running a cable to the TV/streamer is impossible, just run the NAS right next to the HTPC and connect it with a crossover cable.

Menu support is another item to consider. Plex does support extras, but ripping and organizing them takes considerably more time than just ripping a main feature and chucking it on a drive. I fastidiously rip every extra from my BD's that isn't total junk, often reencoding them to save space or otherwise tweak them, and that can take an hour or two of active work for a disc with a lot of extras. Just dropping the unencrypted BD folder on a drive and being done with it would be quite attractive. Plex's support for multiple streaming devices is essential for my household, but an HTPC solution could work well if you only want a single dedicated playback device.
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post #81 of 81 Old 08-29-2017, 12:42 PM
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Ripping Blu Ray & DVD to Playback Over Home Network - Solutions? Quality Loss?

It's quite easy to jam a bunch of drives in to a pc and pool them together into a single volume. You can use the tools in windows 10 or whs to do this and even provide redundancy. Sharing is quite easy to do at that point. Same as sharing a single drive.
However I just use a drobo connected to my pc as it's so simple. I have built and run servers in the past and that can be a pain to maintain.
I don't rip anything other than the main movie. I suspect most people are the same.
I have also built many htpcs over the years but moved away from that as soon as streaming devices started coming out as it makes things sooo much easier.

Streaming Devices: Nvidia Shield, 2x Roku 3's, 1st/2nd gen chromecast, ATV4k, Apple TV 4, xbox 360/one
Displays: Vizio M602i-B3, LG OLED65B6, panasonic ax100u on a 145" S-I-L-V-E-R painted screen, 40" Samsung
Receivers: Denon X3300, Yamaha RX-V663. Bluray/UHD player: Oppo UDP-203
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