Next-Gen Apple TV to Support 4K and HDR - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 514 Old 08-28-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
From looking at the UX online, it does not seem to be able to stream 4K content; I don't know about HD audio pass through. I too went with all the options you listed above and eventually steered away from Apple TV because of its' inability to bitstream HD audio to my AVR. I settled on a 2017 shield and am loving the interface and KODI for my movies. It will be interesting to see how Apple plans on handling the licensing for DOLBY as they did not want to deal with it on their ATV4 hence you got DD 5.1 on a DTSHD-MA disk!
Does the shield Kodi version allow, "sync display frame rate to content"?

I know it can bitstream (Atmos, dts:x, etc)
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post #32 of 514 Old 08-28-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mdsjedi44 View Post
I might be asking too much, but I wonder if it will have a separate audio-out in order to connect video directly to your tv and audio to the AVRs that don't have Dolby Vision pass-through.
Couldn't you connect your ATV directly to your AVR? I suppose it depends on the AVR. My
SR7010 will stream HDR but won't stream DV until a firmware update (by end of 2017... allegedly )
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post #33 of 514 Old 08-28-2017, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Couldn't you connect your ATV directly to your AVR? I suppose it depends on the AVR. My
SR7010 will stream HDR but won't stream DV until a firmware update (by end of 2017... allegedly )
That's just the thing. Only a fraction of current AVRs have Dolby Vision pass-through. For those who have a DV tv, an audio-out would be the ideal scenario to give us the best of both worlds. Additionally, since my TV is a 2016 OLED, audio return channel (ARC) doesn't support Atmos. So... this Apple device is one of my last possible solutions to simultaneously obtain Dolby Vision and Atmos.
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post #34 of 514 Old 08-28-2017, 09:26 PM
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Wow! I was waiting patiently for someone to invent 4K moving pictures and high dynamic range colour. Apple innovation does it again!
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post #35 of 514 Old 08-28-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Does the shield Kodi version allow, "sync display frame rate to content"?

I know it can bitstream (Atmos, dts:x, etc)
Yes, I believe it can as I have seen it in the menu. In my view KODI is still king for movies and personal media streaming. It can also do home automation from what I understand, but haven't tried it.
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post #36 of 514 Old 08-29-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post
My needs include - able to play local network media files of various formats beyond what ATV offers now (such as VOB files, ts or m2tv files, flac files and mkv files as examples). Apple chose to be limited enough to lock people into iTunes.
I have always been disappointed that Apple TV does not provide a means to do this out of the box. However, Infuse 5 looks to be a pretty good solution. It appears to support a wide range of formats, including those you mentioned, as well as any protocol you might want (DLNA, Kodi, SMB, and even FTP).

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I can, the UX is leaps and bounds better than any competitor. Just the fact that the buttons on my Harmony control all the apps in the same way is a step above the rest.
This. Good lord, am I looking forward to finally abandoning the Android apps on my Sony A1E. Ever try fast-forwarding in the Android HBO NOW app? The UI is cumbersome and, frankly, bizarre. On the Apple TV, it works exactly as I would expect.

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Never thought of [Apple] TV as being 2 years behind. More like waiting until 4K standards were actually in place.
That may have been part of it, but there were other factors for Apple to consider. The iTunes platform delivers video content to Mac and iOS devices too. Apple waited until their entire product line could perform hardware-accelerated HEVC decoding, which meant waiting for Intel's Kaby Lake processors for their Macs. Whether that was the best move is debatable, but I could see Apple taking a lot of flak if, after launching 4K/HDR on iTunes, someone with a brand new 5K iMac could not (and might never) be able to enjoy silky smooth 4K playback. If I were in Tim Cook's shoes, I'd have made the same call.

Lastly, and this is pure speculation, it wouldn't surprise me if they've been building up a massive 4K library prior to launch. We all know how much Apple loves their marketing. Being able to launch 4K/HDR on iTunes and say they have "the largest collection of 4K content anywhere" strikes me as classic Apple. Of course, they'd probably say that anyway, seeing as their TV app aggregates content from third-party apps.
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post #37 of 514 Old 08-29-2017, 11:28 PM
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The latest news is it may not happen - apple and the studios are disagreeing on prices. Apple wants $20 for a 4k movie, studios want $25-30 flexibility. I don't know about you, but at $30, I'd just buy it on UHD rather than have a compromised 4k experience. The discs aren't that much more expensive and able to go to bitrates no 4k streaming site can handle. At $20, I could overlook discs.

And I'm sure Apple waited until the 4k/HDR support has stabilized and early adopter issues have been resolved. Remember Apple is about having it work, so if support is sketchy as it is on the early days, Apple would let the early adopters fight it out until it's practically plug and play now. (See Roku threads about 4k issues). It was sketchy enough with "faux 4k" (4k60 over HDMI 1.4 using 420 encoding), then HDCP 2.2 issues and there's still some HDR issues on the side. But I think now it's a lot better than a year or two ago.
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post #38 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 04:03 AM
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I know Apple will poop out a 4K ATV at some point. However, I don't think they would be smart to do it now. We're on the verge of a transition to HDMI 2.1, HDR is nowhere near locked-down with the HDR format war about to begin anew, and the Apple/ISP infrastructure required to push 4K to the masses hasn't been solidified yet due to slow national network expansions from the big ISPs. Then you also have Apple's baby-faced content creation division, which hasn't gotten anything interesting going for it yet and Apple's reportedly anal stance on profit-sharing with content creators/owners. It's a very bumpy road.
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post #39 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
I know Apple will poop out a 4K ATV at some point. However, I don't think they would be smart to do it now. We're on the verge of a transition to HDMI 2.1, HDR is nowhere near locked-down with the HDR format war about to begin anew, and the Apple/ISP infrastructure required to push 4K to the masses hasn't been solidified yet due to slow national network expansions from the big ISPs. Then you also have Apple's baby-faced content creation division, which hasn't gotten anything interesting going for it yet and Apple's reportedly anal stance on profit-sharing with content creators/owners. It's a very bumpy road.
Apple can't afford to wait anymore as they are getting beaten badly in the streamer market. Carpool karaoke isn't going to sell any ATVs

4K/HDR is here and Apple is missing it. If anything they need a box that can stream 4K movies shot on their own devices!!!

Everything you said is true, but that also applies to the entire market. Sadly we are in a state of flux in regards to standards and technology. But Apple could take a big step forward being one of the few streaming boxes to do both DV and HDR. I have a feeling Roku will be next with a box that can do both.
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post #40 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Apple are years behind now on just baseline products, I can't believe people still accept this innovation latency as still being "special" because Apple is doing it...

I can't think of a thing Apple is doing today in products that isn't at least 2 years behind someone else.
AMEN to that. And I have long been an Apple user, since the Apple II days. But more recently, I've had to turn elsewhere for products because Apple was simply not keeping up, or under-performing, which has been the case for a long time now. They still innovate on occasion, but I'm pretty much over it. Still, the Apple-flavored Koolaid flows steadily....

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Apple goes in when there is money to be made, innovation alone is no guarantee of making money. It's turning into a Samsung and Apple world.
Don't forget Google....

It's the new Axis of Evil.....

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Most people's internet can't stream 4k, would you market an electric car where there is no place to charge it.
Well, a lot of people actually can stream 4K, and yes - every EC company out there markets such cars, and plenty of places you can't charge 'em. But plenty of places you can. At least here in Silly-cone Valley......

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Wow! I was waiting patiently for someone to invent 4K moving pictures and high dynamic range colour. Apple innovation does it again!
ha, ha.....

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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Apple can't afford to wait anymore as they are getting beaten badly in the streamer market. Carpool karaoke isn't going to sell any ATVs

4K/HDR is here and Apple is missing it. If anything they need a box that can stream 4K movies shot on their own devices!!!
Of course they can afford to wait....it's the story with Apple for many years. Repeat - the Koolaid flows steadily.....and they know it.

Still, I'll hold out and see what the folks say. My Sony TV is not the worst streaming device, but not the best. Looking to get a dedicated streaming device. If Apple comes through, I'd be silly not to consider though I'm leaning towards a Roku. Something by the end of the year me thinks.

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post #41 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 09:06 AM
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If new gen. Apple TV can stream Hulu and Netflix, I will be buy one.
I bought Roku 4 as soon as came out. Had to send 1st one back, kept shutting down.
Been nothing but problems with 2nd one, still can't look thru titles without screen taking off in direction
your looking !
Now remote has died, ordered on 8/25, they just shipped it today, what service !
Roku will go in garbage, if Apple product proves to be good.
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post #42 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 10:02 AM
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Saw this yesterday: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/29...-in-september/

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This is why Net Neutrality is so important. Access providers will be either offering pay to play stream lanes to the providers or are going to pass the cost onto the consumer. If 4k streaming with Dolby Vision and HDR options become readily available from Apple, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and Roku, streaming costs are going to change radically for the consumers which in turn will hurt the format.

Here in Florida AT&T has a data cap of 22 GBs then they start slowing down your speeds. If I download one Xbox or PS4 game it eats up 45 gigs alone.

I'll stick with discs for to foreseeable future.
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post #44 of 514 Old 08-30-2017, 05:29 PM
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Now if Apple would just include dual HDMI outs for legacy and non-Dolby Vision AVRs they would have a killer product. Any chance of that happening?

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post #45 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 09:42 AM
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The latest news is it may not happen - apple and the studios are disagreeing on prices. Apple wants $20 for a 4k movie, studios want $25-30 flexibility. I don't know about you, but at $30, I'd just buy it on UHD rather than have a compromised 4k experience. The discs aren't that much more expensive and able to go to bitrates no 4k streaming site can handle. At $20, I could overlook discs.

And I'm sure Apple waited until the 4k/HDR support has stabilized and early adopter issues have been resolved. Remember Apple is about having it work, so if support is sketchy as it is on the early days, Apple would let the early adopters fight it out until it's practically plug and play now. (See Roku threads about 4k issues). It was sketchy enough with "faux 4k" (4k60 over HDMI 1.4 using 420 encoding), then HDCP 2.2 issues and there's still some HDR issues on the side. But I think now it's a lot better than a year or two ago.
Yep, this. At $25 for a movie online I'll splurge a little extra and get the UHD/BR combo pack. It will build my UHD collection, and the regular old BluRay will still let see the the movie and rip it to my server while I'm waiting for a new SuperTurboUHD/HDR DV television AND an AVR that will pass DV.

I'm a backwards luddite about owning the physical media. No internet outage or company going out of business can take away the discs and interrupt the viewing pleasure.
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post #46 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
I know Apple will poop out a 4K ATV at some point. However, I don't think they would be smart to do it now. We're on the verge of a transition to HDMI 2.1, HDR is nowhere near locked-down with the HDR format war about to begin anew, and the Apple/ISP infrastructure required to push 4K to the masses hasn't been solidified yet due to slow national network expansions from the big ISPs. Then you also have Apple's baby-faced content creation division, which hasn't gotten anything interesting going for it yet and Apple's reportedly anal stance on profit-sharing with content creators/owners. It's a very bumpy road.
I'm really hoping that HDR10+ will be an easy add to the existing HDR10 on AVRs and televisions. I can cough up $150 for a streaming device every couple a years, but I'm used to AVRs lasting 10+ (ahh the good old days) I feel for the guys who shelled out $800 or more for an AVR this year, but will never get a Dolby Vision firmware upgrade.

Apple should mind their core business and stick to hardware and software, NOT content creation.
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post #47 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Apple can't afford to wait anymore as they are getting beaten badly in the streamer market. Carpool karaoke isn't going to sell any ATVs

4K/HDR is here and Apple is missing it. If anything they need a box that can stream 4K movies shot on their own devices!!!

Everything you said is true, but that also applies to the entire market. Sadly we are in a state of flux in regards to standards and technology. But Apple could take a big step forward being one of the few streaming boxes to do both DV and HDR. I have a feeling Roku will be next with a box that can do both.
HDR10 is the base of every UHD disc. If your are talking about HDR10+, its still up in the air. The grand licensing scheme has been announced, but the implementation of it is baby steps. I don't want to buy a TV or AVR that suddenly can't take advantage of HDR10+ and has no chance of an update, but I don't want to wait til 2020 or beyond to get UHD with HDR into my home..
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post #48 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 11:44 AM
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I'm really hoping that HDR10+ will be an easy add to the existing HDR10 on AVRs and televisions. I can cough up $150 for a streaming device every couple a years, but I'm used to AVRs lasting 10+ (ahh the good old days) I feel for the guys who shelled out $800 or more for an AVR this year, but will never get a Dolby Vision firmware upgrade.
All last years Samsung TV's are being updated to HDR10+, I'm hoping LG will do the same but I haven't heard anything.


Last years Denon/Marantz receivers are being updated to dolby vision as well. I bet they also get HDR10+

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post #49 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 11:50 AM
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All last years Samsung TV's are being updated to HDR10+, I'm hoping LG will do the same but I haven't heard anything.


Last years Denon/Marantz receivers are being updated to dolby vision as well. I bet they also get HDR10+
But I don't believe Samsung has commented on upgrading the HDMI firmware on the TVs, which I believe would need to be updated to support the HDR10+ metadata. So any HDR10+ support might be limited to the built in streaming apps no?
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post #50 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 12:16 PM
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Now if Apple would just include dual HDMI outs for legacy and non-Dolby Vision AVRs they would have a killer product. Any chance of that happening?
Highly unlikely, they like to simplify things. Heck, they wouldn't even keep a headphone jack on their newest phones, I can't see them adding an additional port on their ATV!

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post #51 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 01:13 PM
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But I don't believe Samsung has commented on upgrading the HDMI firmware on the TVs, which I believe would need to be updated to support the HDR10+ metadata. So any HDR10+ support might be limited to the built in streaming apps no?


I believe if it works with hdr it will work with hdr10+. I'm not sure a new hdmi version is required. Going from A to B is just a firmware update if required. Time will tell.

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post #52 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 01:16 PM
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I believe if it works with hdr it will work with hdr10+. I'm not sure a new hdmi version is required. Going from A to B is just a firmware update if required. Time will tell.
You'd think right I mean if a TV can handle DV, then it should be able to handle HDR10+

Anyway, we are in exciting but frustrating times with HDR and 4K.

I will certainly be a buyer of the new ATV on day one regardless just to try it out. My Roku Ultra has enough bugs/quirks that I'm looking forward to see if Apple can produce a nice solid box. Let's hope they improve the audio performance over the ATV4!
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post #53 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 01:39 PM
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I need HD audio pass through for me to buy it. While I do enjoy my AT4 I do have to switch over to my shield for movies.


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post #54 of 514 Old 08-31-2017, 06:14 PM
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If on Sep 12 Apple will show us 4K HDR Apple Tv I'm all in . I always want to get one a specially now when new TV what I have use terrible Android OS.

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post #55 of 514 Old 09-01-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Apple are years behind now on just baseline products, I can't believe people still accept this innovation latency as still being "special" because Apple is doing it...

I can't think of a thing Apple is doing today in products that isn't at least 2 years behind someone else.

agree they are weak in a lot of areas - to name just a few:

1. why not move the audio quality up a notch on their default file type. at least in the 300-400 kbps range.
2. home integration has been slow slow slow. It still can't replace a crestron as there are not enough companies making products for apple home kit.
3. apple's products are blown away by ubiquity UniFy in the realm of networking.
4. apple has not improved compatibility via IP with its devices and home theater stuff.
5. A rack mountable player (like oppo for blu-ray UHD) with all of Apple TV's guts inside would be GREAT. Throw an optical output channel on it for audio and literally you could get by with ONE AV device ... TODAY. I guess they are waiting for blu-ray to die as internet speeds increase.
6. when can i get dolby atmos in full resolution and channels out of my Apple TV?
7. why has apple music never solved the multi-artist tagging problem. Or the multi-genre tag availability for that matter.
8. carplay... what a clunky experience
9. apple maps still sucks
10. their cloud drive is so so in how it organizes your crap by default
11. Siri... mostly not useful, so i rarely use it.

A lot of companies seem to have not only caught up on a lot of fronts, but really seem like reasonable buyout targets so they can incorporate their tech or patents.

Blazar!
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post #56 of 514 Old 09-01-2017, 07:00 PM
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Hopefully the new ATV is released right after the September 12th event. With 4K and HDR support, I'm all in. Airplay 2 sounds cool as well, enabling multi-room audio without having to rely on integrated systems such as Sonos, etc.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/31...event-invites/

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post #57 of 514 Old 09-01-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergts2207 View Post
Hopefully the new ATV is released right after the September 12th event. With 4K and HDR support, I'm all in. Airplay 2 sounds cool as well, enabling multi-room audio without having to rely on integrated systems such as Sonos, etc.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/31...event-invites/
I wonder if the announced on the 12th, available by the 22nd holds true.

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post #58 of 514 Old 09-02-2017, 02:07 PM
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hopefully amazon will announce the firetv 3 on the 11 or so to steal some thunder so I can make an informed decision. Im fed up with roku.

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post #59 of 514 Old 09-03-2017, 05:09 AM
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I am always fascinated with the pro and anti Apple comments. In my mind, much depends on how you define "innovation". As an example, Apple did not create the easy to use interface of the Mac. It was developed by Xerox at PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). It was sitting there with no widespread applications (other than word processing) and Apple "productized it". Invention? Clearly not? Innovation? I think so.

In my opinion the original Apple iPhone interface was innovation. And the iPod as a music playing device/storage was certainly original.

And while Apple will continue to develop products that may or may not be innovative, it is now, I think, more about creating pieces of a much large puzzle. The original Amazon Echo was extremely limited in its functionality. Now I can (and do) turn on and off lights and other appliances, listen to music (and bad jokes), get the weather, etc. Apple (and Amazon and Google and others) is/are looking to create product connectivity to provide new ways to integrate our electronic lives (TV, music, movie, home automation, etc). Apple may or may not be THE key player in this arena, but I have no doubt that they will be A key player

As for the Apple TV box, I took it out of my system some time ago as I did not see it as providing me anything I could not already get with my Amazon Prime (and associated box) and DirecTV. I NEVER use either of these services/boxes for serious movie watching. And until there is new (and interesting) content only available from Apple, I have no interest in adding one back into my system. I have invested way too much time and money into our home theater to watch and listen to movies that only provide sub standard audio and/or video. That limits me to physical discs, Kaleidescape downloads or ripping my own.
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post #60 of 514 Old 09-03-2017, 09:06 AM
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Lets hope for

ATMOS Support
4K HDR 10bit/12bit
More file formats support
audio passthru

and one of the features I've been hoping for and they said was coming soon (never did) was SIRI integration with other apps besides their store!

I want to say "Find me a comedy..." and it will look in my Plex server not just send me to their store to buy/rent a movie
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