Next-Gen Apple TV to Support 4K and HDR - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
It is also interesting that Walt Disney is missing from the announcement of supporting studios. I am guessing Apple could not work out the same agreement with them so they aren't at the party at all. Another win for VUDU.
Probably due to the same reason they have pulled out from Netflix. Releasing their own streaming service in 2018/2019ish

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post #122 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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What I heard is they are going to upgrade all HD movies purchased through itunes. That sounds like no redemption codes, but I'm hoping I'm wrong, as I have plenty of each in my library.
I'm in the same boat and hoping the upgrade applies to both as well.
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post #123 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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Probably due to the same reason they have pulled out from Netflix. Releasing their own streaming service in 2018/2019ish
Disney won't miss an opportunity to SELL you a movie. They'll be there.
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post #124 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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Probably due to the same reason they have pulled out from Netflix. Releasing their own streaming service in 2018/2019ish
My understanding though was that they are launching a 'streaming' service the likes of Netflix. iTunes represents a more traditional purchase/rental model.
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post #125 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:28 PM
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Disney won't miss an opportunity to SELL you a movie. They'll be there.
I certainly hope so, but I do find it a curious omission from the list of supporting studios during the announcement. Walt Disney is a BIG player now with the inclusion of Marvel and Lucasfilm.
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post #126 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:32 PM
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I certainly hope so, but I do find it a curious omission from the list of supporting studios during the announcement. Walt Disney is a BIG player now with the inclusion of Marvel and Lucasfilm.
I wonder if it has to do with DMA not really being 4K ready. Look at the mess that was Guardians 2. Codes initially didn't redeem 4K, now they do. Vudu the only provider with 4K. DMA still doesn't show UHD on the movie page.
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post #127 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 01:36 PM
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I wonder if it has to do with DMA not really being 4K ready. Look at the mess that was Guardians 2. Codes initially didn't redeem 4K, now they do. Vudu the only provider with 4K. DMA still doesn't show UHD on the movie page.
Certainly a possibility. The GotG 2 release was definitely a mess. I am in the camp of redeemed, but not 4K on VUDU. Now I have to call to get it fixed. A real pain indeed.
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post #128 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
I do not believe we have clarity on that yet. They are going to offer free upgrades to HD movies in your library, but we don't know if that includes titles acquired through digital certificates.
It does include movies you've acquired through digital certificates. Apple's website says if there is an HD movie in your library and a 4K HDR version is released, it gets upgraded for free. Digital certificates are iTunes specific codes when you redeem so it's just like you bought the movie through iTunes.
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post #129 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:09 PM
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It does include movies you've acquired through digital certificates. Apple's website says if there is an HD movie in your library and a 4K HDR version is released, it gets upgraded for free. Digital certificates are iTunes specific codes when you redeem so it's just like you bought the movie through iTunes.
Ok, how do movie connected through Disney Movies Anywhere factor in? I'm guess they don't since we do not have confirmation they are even supporting 4K content in iTunes yet. Good news at least for most of my movies that are acquired through BD purchases. Thanks for the info.
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post #130 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:13 PM
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Vudu will have to react to this as their UHD movies are priced at $29.99. I hope I can stream 4k home movies through Plex on the new Apple TV 4k.

If they do not implement Dolby Atmos, that would be ridiculous. But most consumers don't have Dolby Atmos and I bet most consumers only use the speakers on their TV. Apple markets high end products but they typically don't cater to the high end AV niche like us. Many people will watch 4k movies on their 46" tv sitting 10 feet away which completely negates the need for 4k.

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post #131 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:24 PM
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Vudu will have to react to this as their UHD movies are priced at $29.99. I hope I can stream 4k home movies through Plex on the new Apple TV 4k.

If they do not implement Dolby Atmos, that would be ridiculous. But most consumers don't have Dolby Atmos and I bet most consumers only use the speakers on their TV. Apple markets high end products but they typically don't cater to the high end AV niche like us. Many people will watch 4k movies on their 46" tv sitting 10 feet away which completely negates the need for 4k.
I'm not really sure if VUDU dictates the pricing here or even Apple for that matter. I believe the studios are ultimately in control. That said, VUDU is most likely priced higher because they do offer improved sound. This is obviously just speculation on my part, but certainly seems plausible. That being said, if the quality of the 4K HDR is reasonably good on iTunes and DD+ is the minimum then the pricing is attractive. Far more so than VUDU who is competing against 4K BD at those prices. I guess we will find out in 10 days.
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post #132 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:26 PM
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Vudu should be able to do lossy Atmos on this. As with Netflix.
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post #133 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:30 PM
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I wonder if Apple will do the same thing Vudu is doing by offering DV HDR on movies that are currently only HDR10 on disc? Or will Apple only offer DV on movies that currently offered that way on disc, which would only be 5 or 6 movies. There are a lot of DV HDR movies on Vudu that are not on disc.

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post #134 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Ok, how do movie connected through Disney Movies Anywhere factor in? I'm guess they don't since we do not have confirmation they are even supporting 4K content in iTunes yet. Good news at least for most of my movies that are acquired through BD purchases. Thanks for the info.
That's a good question. I was just looking at Disney Anywhere page to see what happens if you disconnect your account from iTunes and I found this:

When you disconnect, your existing movies will still be available in both your participating provider and Disney Movies Anywhere accounts, but any future movies you add will only be available from the account in which you acquire them.

Reading that, it sounds like they should be upgraded.
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post #135 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:39 PM
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I'm not really sure if VUDU dictates the pricing here or even Apple for that matter. I believe the studios are ultimately in control. That said, VUDU is most likely priced higher because they do offer improved sound. This is obviously just speculation on my part, but certainly seems plausible. That being said, if the quality of the 4K HDR is reasonably good on iTunes and DD+ is the minimum then the pricing is attractive. Far more so than VUDU who is competing against 4K BD at those prices. I guess we will find out in 10 days.
Before today, Apple had been negotiating with studios to keep the 4K prices the same as HD. Since Apple is by far the largest digital content store in the world, it makes sense the movie studios finally budged. I'm curious to see what Vudu is going to do. I imagine they need to rework their deals with the studios to lower 4K movie prices.
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post #136 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:45 PM
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Before today, Apple had been negotiating with studios to keep the 4K prices the same as HD. Since Apple is by far the largest digital content provider in the world, it makes sense the movie studios finally budged. I'm curious to see what Vudu is going to do. I imagine they need to rework their deals with the studios to lower 4K movie prices.
Yes, I've read all of the headlines over the last week or so regarding this. What we don't know is what concessions were made to make the price target Apple wants a reality. This isn't like the days of old when Apple could strong arm music companies. Today, Apple faces many competitors and while they may be the largest provider in some aspects that doesn't give them the same level of control they enjoyed years ago. Studios still have the control... for now...
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post #137 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:49 PM
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I'm not really sure if VUDU dictates the pricing here or even Apple for that matter. I believe the studios are ultimately in control. That said, VUDU is most likely priced higher because they do offer improved sound. This is obviously just speculation on my part, but certainly seems plausible. That being said, if the quality of the 4K HDR is reasonably good on iTunes and DD+ is the minimum then the pricing is attractive. Far more so than VUDU who is competing against 4K BD at those prices. I guess we will find out in 10 days.
It's been widely reported that Apple has been negotiating with the studios to offer 4k resolution at HD prices. Apple is a powerful force in the industry and i am happy to see prices coming down. But for the best quality on a large screen 4k UHD discs still rule in picture quality and sound quality.
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post #138 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
I'm not really sure if VUDU dictates the pricing here or even Apple for that matter. I believe the studios are ultimately in control. That said, VUDU is most likely priced higher because they do offer improved sound. This is obviously just speculation on my part, but certainly seems plausible. That being said, if the quality of the 4K HDR is reasonably good on iTunes and DD+ is the minimum then the pricing is attractive. Far more so than VUDU who is competing against 4K BD at those prices. I guess we will find out in 10 days.
It's been widely reported that Apple has been negotiating with the studios to offer 4k resolution at HD prices. Apple is a powerful force in the industry and i am happy to see prices coming down. But for the best quality on a large screen 4k UHD discs still rule in picture quality and sound quality.
I'd still take 1080p Bluray over 4k streaming
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post #139 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:54 PM
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It's been widely reported that Apple has been negotiating with the studios to offer 4k resolution at HD prices. Apple is a powerful force in the industry and i am happy to see prices coming down. But for the best quality on a large screen 4k UHD discs still rule in picture quality and sound quality.
How many studios are on board with the Apple pricing? Will there be some new releases not available on iTunes because they did not agree to the lower pricing?

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post #140 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:56 PM
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post #141 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 02:56 PM
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I'd still take 1080p Bluray over 4k streaming
4K streaming on Vudu looks as good as 1080p discs with the addition HDR2020, which makes the image really pop. 4K discs will look better than 4k streaming, just like 1080p discs look better than 1080p streaming.

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post #142 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 03:00 PM
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4K streaming on Vudu looks as good as 1080p discs with the addition HDR2020, which makes the image really pop. 4K discs will look better than 4k streaming, just like 1080p discs look better than 1080p streaming.
Blu-ray Atmos or DTS:X mix should sound better (if you have "good enough" surround system) than 4k streaming due to compression of the stream.

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SQ is still better on disc IMO, but the 4K streaming I have seen on Vudu and the Directv downloads are pretty good PQ. 4K blu-ray PQ? No. But an Apple 4K with DV and HDR movie rentals opens up a new world and revenue stream for studios. Id bet it will get great support.

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post #144 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 03:11 PM
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Blu-ray Atmos or DTS:X mix should sound better (if you have "good enough" surround system) than 4k streaming due to compression of the stream.
Very true, but I was comparing image quality. IMO, 4K streaming on Vudu looks as good as 1080p discs. If I can rent a UHD movie for $5.99, thats a win for me. If I really like it, I can then buy it used on disc from Amazon for a lot lower than new.

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Guys, I use an ATV 4 at the moment mainly for Netflix. It's connected to my Marantz 6010 Receiver which supports DD+ etc. But if I watch Netflix my Marantz only shows DD and not DD+. I chose for Dolby Digital in the sound settings.

What is the right setting to enjoy DD+? I think this same question goes for the new ATV 4K.

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post #146 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 03:44 PM
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Guys, I use an ATV 4 at the moment mainly for Netflix. It's connected to my Marantz 6010 Receiver which supports DD+ etc. But if I watch Netflix my Marantz only shows DD and not DD+. I chose for Dolby Digital in the sound settings.

What is the right setting to enjoy DD+? I think this same question goes for the new ATV 4K.
Currently, I believe only iTunes content support DD+. For whatever reason, the Netflix app does not use DD+ on the ATV.
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post #147 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 03:55 PM
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The ATV 4K supports streaming of 4K HDR content.
Thanks. I figured that would be the case.
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post #148 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Blu-ray Atmos or DTS:X mix should sound better (if you have "good enough" surround system) than 4k streaming due to compression of the stream.
Very true, but I was comparing image quality. IMO, 4K streaming on Vudu looks as good as 1080p discs. If I can rent a UHD movie for $5.99, thats a win for me. If I really like it, I can then buy it used on disc from Amazon for a lot lower than new.
Never saw the appeal in Vudu $5.99 seems steep for a rental. I guess I'm lucky I have a Redbox around the corner
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post #149 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 04:01 PM
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I wonder if the ATV 5 will allow one to download a rented or purchased movie right to the device since you can buy either a 64 or 128 GB model? Would be nice if it did. That way you could eliminate some of the streaming compression artifacts. After you watch the rented movie, it gets deleted from the player, and you could also delete the purchased one, and DL again when needed.
I do this all the time. Both through starting movie and pausing and letting the whole thing buffer and through downloading a rental to my computer and then playing it back on my ATV.

The good news / bad news is that Apple does NOT do adaptive coding of iTunes content. So no compression artifacts are introduced by your bandwidth. You are getting the full bitrate of the encode even when streaming. If your bandwidth is not sufficient, it will simply buffer, rather than drop down to a lower quality stream.

They have worked this way for a couple of generations.
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post #150 of 514 Old 09-12-2017, 04:02 PM
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Never saw the appeal in Vudu $5.99 seems steep for a rental. I guess I'm lucky I have a Redbox around the corner
I wish my RedBox carried UHD! I am jealous.
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