Dune HD Pro 4K (Ultra) Thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 5913 Old 11-21-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Can anyone recommend a USB 3.0 external HDD for full 4K blu-ray backup playback? I have a Samsung T5 Samsung SSD, but it likes to crash for some reason, was wondering if there was a more reliable solution?
I have a Seagate 4 TB external HD. The STDR4000200. Connected to my NAS to provide some cheap extra storage. Had it for about six months and has been great for 4K movies
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post #4142 of 5913 Old 11-23-2018, 03:30 PM
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Aparantly full 4k iso playback will come next according to nicety shop who had a reply from the dune ceo.

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post #4143 of 5913 Old 11-23-2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Can anyone recommend a USB 3.0 external HDD for full 4K blu-ray backup playback? I have a Samsung T5 Samsung SSD, but it likes to crash for some reason, was wondering if there was a more reliable solution?
I've been using a 4TB WD Elements with no issues.
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post #4144 of 5913 Old 11-23-2018, 11:58 PM
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Aparantly full 4k iso playback will come next
What is new about that? Or do you mean uhd menu’s will be supported?
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post #4145 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 01:11 AM
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What is new about that? Or do you mean uhd menu’s will be supported?
Yes, sorry full uhd menu support.

He also mentioned it will come on max and ultra models first and posted a document on how the ess dacs work on the new models.

This is from nicety shop facebook page.

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post #4146 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 01:20 AM
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@MarkS hift2003 - your right about the shield I finally had quick play with it yesterday and plex on it plays back everything inc full 4k hdr and atos dtsx.

You mentioned you had a custom theme for spmc, would you be able to share this nice and simple and wife friendly theme?
@kadqs - where you disappeared to we need some info on the next dune firmware.

Thanks

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post #4147 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 01:20 AM
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I hope dune don't start doing a two tier firmware eg the new ultra and max gets better newer updated firmware and the pro does not or we have to wait for the pro firmware.

That will annoy alot of us

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post #4148 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post
Yes, sorry full uhd menu support.

He also mentioned it will come on max and ultra models first and posted a document on how the ess dacs work on the new models.

This is from nicety shop facebook page.

Sent from my Samsung Note 9 using Tapatalk

And what about the also new Dune HD Pro 4K Plus ? No action for it ?
This model is one of the new gerenarion too, and no improvement ?
I think this one will be my target, because of this I am interested. Maybe it is gonna be a question of time, I hope.
Thanks for this information.

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post #4149 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habianchi View Post
And what about the also new Dune HD Pro 4K Plus ? No action for it ?
This model is one of the new gerenarion too, and no improvement ?
I think this one will be my target, because of this I am interested. Maybe it is gonna be a question of time, I hope.
Thanks for this information.
It will get it but the max and ultra might get or first. It could be all of them get it at same time if dune follows the unified for Meare approach.

If the player was more stable I would have considered changing to max or ultra.

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post #4150 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post
the unified for Meare approach.
You keep talking riddles mate. What is the “unified for Meare” approach?
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post #4151 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jowicrt View Post
You keep talking riddles mate. What is the “unified for Meare” approach?
Sorry damn phone keyboard. I meant the single firmware approach that dune mentioned being that the chipsets are the same if not very similar then the firmware should have the same feature set bar some additional hardware features like the ess dacs etc.



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post #4152 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post

If the player was more stable I would have considered changing to max or ultra.

Sent from my Samsung Note 9 using Tapatalk

As I already have some devices on my set with good connections, like XLR, for stereo audio, now I need a media player only for movies, using only HDMI connection.
I think Max and Ultra models are too much for me.

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post #4153 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 08:24 AM
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When are they going to fix standard dvd playback issues?
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post #4154 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post
Yes, sorry full uhd menu support.

He also mentioned it will come on max and ultra models first and posted a document on how the ess dacs work on the new models.

This is from nicety shop facebook page.

Sent from my Samsung Note 9 using Tapatalk
So the early adopters and supporters of the first in the new range are getting the bums rush when it comes to the new firmware?! It should be the Dune HD Pro 4K first as we have been living with beta firmware the longest.

Did you get an idea when we will start seeing this?

Also what about improvements to My Collection? Its woefully under developed.

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post #4155 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post

@kadqs - where you disappeared to we need some info on the next dune firmware.

Thanks

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Seconded!

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post #4156 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blenky View Post
So the early adopters and supporters of the first in the new range are getting the bums rush when it comes to the new firmware?! It should be the Dune HD Pro 4K first as we have been living with beta firmware the longest.

Did you get an idea when we will start seeing this?

Also what about improvements to My Collection? Its woefully under developed.
No idea, I was just relaying info back on this forum from nicety shop facebook page.

I did ask him if he can confirm what firmware these new players are running but no reply.



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post #4157 of 5913 Old 11-24-2018, 03:53 PM
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Is there a simply way to add a new movie/show to my collection without indexing whole folder - don't know if too much wine tonight but just not seeing the option-thxs

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post #4158 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 02:21 AM
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Some more on frame-rates.


These are the results for the 1295 players I have at 2K & 4K in the various modes:


Yesterday my new Samsung UE82NU8009 (https://www.samsung.com/de/tvs/uhd-p...E82NU8009TXZG/) arrived and it was time to finally exchange the old Dune D1 with the Dune Pro 4k.


First of all I want to point out that I´m not into the Chroma subsampling stuff, I don´t have the slightest clue what this is all about.


My problem is that I realize one microstutter every single min. (I can´t tell you the exact period between those stutters) on 4k 23.976fps h265 HDR films played with the system-player; furthermore I realized 2 DUNE-reports on that chroma subsampling thing, 10bit 4:4:4 and 10bit 4:2:2. No matter what is shown the micro stuttering is present. I read about a hardware restriction of the SOC 1295, so now I come to the point where I have to decide to sell the unit again or not. BTW: I haven`t checked 1080p movies so far whether they are stutterfree or not.


One question about the quoted stuff above: Am I understand the data right that there is no stutter with an output framrate smaller than 23.976 (e.g. 23.973 with a green color)? If my guess is right I'm definitely interested in the following: why does a 23.978 frame output results in a microstutter while a 23.973 frame output does not ?!?




My additional questions are:


1. Can any1 give me a short overwiew/introdution in that chroma subsampling stuff? Wikipedia is too complicate for me. I don`t want to understand any technical detail but what is relevant to maybe avoid selfmade errors in the preferences. Are the DUNE factory settings ideal? I haven't changed anything so far.


2. Will there be any chance to install a firmware that is able to show stutter-free 4k (h265?) movies? What do you suppose?

3. I played a little bit with the preferenes in the Android menu. Changed HDMI-Mode from 1.4 to 2.0, set HDMI Range to Full Range. Is that ok? What should I change, too? What should I not change under no circumstances?


4. Whirlpool reported a stutterfree play on device named Zidoo Z9s with 23.974 fps. How is this possible while a movie has 23.976 fps?!


5. While 1080p movies have a "normal" brightness on the Dune HD Pro 4k, 2160p/h265/HDR-movies seem to have a lower brightness. I have to increase all relevant preferences to the max on my Samsung to let it look quite ok/normal. Can any1 explain this?



So you see, I'm a little bit confused with all this stuff. It`s boring to mention that the D1 was a player, which played all my movies in a perfect way.



My only needs are: stutterfree play of 1080p and 2160p (with or without HDR) of films with a h264 or h265 codec. No apps, no Kodi, no zappiti, no other stuff.


Thank you in advance for your answers.

Last edited by furzgesicht; 11-25-2018 at 02:38 AM.
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post #4159 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furzgesicht View Post
Yesterday my new Samsung UE82NU8009 (https://www.samsung.com/de/tvs/uhd-p...E82NU8009TXZG/) arrived and it was time to finally exchange the old Dune D1 with the Dune Pro 4k.


First of all I want to point out that I´m not into the Chroma subsampling stuff, I don´t have the slightest clue what this is all about.


My problem is that I realize one microstutter every single min. (I can´t tell you the exact period between those stutters) on 4k 23.976fps h265 HDR films played with the system-player; furthermore I realized 2 DUNE-reports on that chroma subsampling thing, 10bit 4:4:4 and 10bit 4:2:2. No matter what is shown the micro stuttering is present. I read about a hardware restriction of the SOC 1295, so now I come to the point where I have to decide to sell the unit again or not. BTW: I haven`t checked 1080p movies so far whether they are stutterfree or not.


One question about the quoted stuff above: Am I understand the data right that there is no stutter with an output framrate smaller than 23.976 (e.g. 23.973 with a green color)? If my guess is right I'm definitely interested in the following: why does a 23.978 frame output results in a microstutter while a 23.973 frame output does not ?!?




My additional questions are:


1. Can any1 give me a short overwiew/introdution in that chroma subsampling stuff? Wikipedia is too complicate for me. I don`t want to understand any technical detail but what is relevant to maybe avoid selfmade errors in the preferences. Are the DUNE factory settings ideal? I haven't changed anything so far.


2. Will there be any chance to install a firmware that is able to show stutter-free 4k (h265?) movies? What do you suppose?

3. I played a little bit with the preferenes in the Android menu. Changed HDMI-Mode from 1.4 to 2.0, set HDMI Range to Full Range. Is that ok? What should I change, too? What should I not change under no circumstances?


4. Whirlpool reported a stutterfree play on device named Zidoo Z9s with 23.974 fps. How is this possible while a movie has 23.976 fps?!


5. While 1080p movies have a "normal" brightness on the Dune HD Pro 4k, 2160p/h265/HDR-movies seem to have a lower brightness. I have to increase all relevant preferences to the max on my Samsung to let it look quite ok/normal. Can any1 explain this?



So you see, I'm a little bit confused with all this stuff. It`s boring to mention that the D1 was a player, which played all my movies in a perfect way.



My only needs are: stutterfree play of 1080p and 2160p (with or without HDR) of films with a h264 or h265 codec. No apps, no Kodi, no zappiti, no other stuff.


Thank you in advance for your answers.

Yes, you're right about the frame rates and microstutter - for more info have a look at my posts in the Zidoo Z9S thread.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...d1296-soc.html

In the meantime, if you want to lose the microstutters on the Dune, use the following settings and change your HDMI range back to <limited>


The caveat with these settings is that in 4:2:2 mode, the 1295 players seem to process internally at 8-bit and spit out at 12-bit so you will get banding in this mode. Unfortunately this seems to be an inherent issue in the chipset and that's the trade off for stutter free 4K playback. Again see my posts in the Z9S thread for more info.





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post #4160 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 03:25 AM
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This is an update to the above table:


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post #4161 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 03:30 AM
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And finally, a screenshot explaining why 12-bit 4:2:2 exhibits banding (8-bit internal processing) on 129* players.


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post #4162 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 04:20 AM
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Best Buy has a WD Easyshare 10TB hard drive for 179 this weekend. Are there any issues with the Pro 4K handling that size?
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post #4163 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 04:22 AM
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Why is 23.978 and 23.974 considered ok?
24 / 1.001 = 23.976... so if you consider 23.987 and 23.974 ok, you should also consider all others, or, if it is NOT 23.976, consider it faulty. Anything other then 23.976 will cause stutters, the only thing that changes is that the closer to 23.976 you get, the longer it takes before you see it. IF you see it at all... but that is also valid for all other variations.
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post #4164 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 07:06 AM
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Is it possible to have the Videowall created by My Collection pop up at Startup?

It's rather annoying having to navigate to My Collection -> Movies -> All Genres.
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post #4165 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowicrt View Post
Why is 23.978 and 23.974 considered ok?
24 / 1.001 = 23.976... so if you consider 23.987 and 23.974 ok, you should also consider all others, or, if it is NOT 23.976, consider it faulty. Anything other then 23.976 will cause stutters, the only thing that changes is that the closer to 23.976 you get, the longer it takes before you see it. IF you see it at all... but that is also valid for all other variations.

You might want to do a little research before you make incorrect sweeping statements.
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post #4166 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 07:41 AM
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You might want to do a little research before you make incorrect sweeping statements.
Oh i'm sorry, am i not correct about 23.976Hz? Please enlighten me.
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post #4167 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Yes, you're right about the frame rates and microstutter - for more info have a look at my posts in the Zidoo Z9S thread.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...d1296-soc.html

In the meantime, if you want to lose the microstutters on the Dune, use the following settings and change your HDMI range back to <limited>


The caveat with these settings is that in 4:2:2 mode, the 1295 players seem to process internally at 8-bit and spit out at 12-bit so you will get banding in this mode. Unfortunately this seems to be an inherent issue in the chipset and that's the trade off for stutter free 4K playback. Again see my posts in the Z9S thread for more info.








Thank you very much for posting your preferences. Microstuttering actually disappeared on 4k stuff and fortunately I seem not to be very sensitive for banding effects. I can't notice this annoying visual effect.



2 additional questions:


1. you have set 4:4:4 for non-4k stuff. Factory Setting is: 4:2:2. Why did you change this?
2. Why do I have to change HDMI Range to limited? What is the effect?


And it would be nice if some1 could answer my left questions.

Last edited by furzgesicht; 11-25-2018 at 08:18 AM.
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post #4168 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by furzgesicht View Post
Thank you very much for posting your preferences. Microstuttering actually disappeared on 4k stuff and fortunately I seem not to be very sensitive for banding effects. I can't notice this annoying visual effect.



2 additional questions:


1. you have set 4:4:4 for non-4k stuff. Factory Setting is: 4:2:2. Why did you change this?
2. Why do I have to change HDMI Range to limited? What is the effect?


And it would be nice if some1 could answer my left questions.

For 2K, because the bandwidth is so low relative to 4K and there are no frame rate issues dependent on the chroma subsampling, I'd rather leave it on the best setting. To be fair, because the content is going to be 8-bit 4:2:0 encoded anyway (assuming bluray rips) there's never going to be anything to gain from choosing 4:4:4 over 4:2:2 but I'm a fiddler
So you can leave at 4:2:2 and it'll look just as good.


The HDMI range refers to the luminance (brightness) values and although (in 8-bit) the full range is 0-255, blurays are encoded from 16-235 with 16 being black and 235 being white - this is the limited range referred to. If you set full range you end up with your black floor being below black at zero so black at 16 will look grey and similarly setting white ceiling at 255 means whites at 235 will not be as, er, white.


Same thing for UHD blurays except we're in 10-bits there and the numbers are bigger!!
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post #4169 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by furzgesicht View Post

One question about the quoted stuff above: Am I understand the data right that there is no stutter with an output framrate smaller than 23.976 (e.g. 23.973 with a green color)? If my guess is right I'm definitely interested in the following: why does a 23.978 frame output results in a microstutter while a 23.973 frame output does not ?!?
Hi, here is some background on the work that was collectively done to track this down. We both own the HDFury Vertex which reports source framerates.

I used several UHD movies (disc and 1:1 UHD MKV) for the tests on the following players - Oppo 203 & Oppo 205 (disc transport and network playback), Panasonic UB820, Panasonic UB900, Nvidia Shield, Zidoo X9S (older model with 1295 chipset) and the Dune 4K Pro with the 1295 as well.

On the Oppo, Panasonic and Nvidia players, UHD HDR content reports back at 23.973 / 23.974 on the Vertex. yes it's off a few clicks and there are discussions on reported source clock timing regarding the vertex. However - NONE of the players I just mentioned skip a beat during UHD HDR playback.


Fast forward to the Dune 4K Pro and Zidoo X9S, basically identical hardware - the same content plays at 23.978, 23.981 and as high as 23.988 in one of the modes that Mark documented above. Both players exhibit the repeated frame issue in my setup with a JVC RS600 projector.

Mark recently purchased the new 1296 based Zidoo Z9S and found one mode 10 bit 444 that plays back at 23.974 (Vertex reported) and isn't seeing the skipping. I bought one and will be testing it against the Dune 4K Pro this week to verify. They may have tweaked something in the 1296 chipset that may now be a limitation in the older 1295 chipset if they haven't been able to fix this issue by now. X9s is over 1.5 years old and Dune decided to build on the same chipset which may have been a mistake.
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post #4170 of 5913 Old 11-25-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
And finally, a screenshot explaining why 12-bit 4:2:2 exhibits banding (8-bit internal processing) on 129* players.


Is this explanation the full story ?

Could the display device’s supported video mode be playing a part, causing an intermediate 12bit 4:2:2 BT2020 Conversion to 8bit 4:2:2 BT2020 for some display devices ?

Agreed, the result would be banding on that display device, but, is the assumption true for all display devices ?

Is the 8bit 4:2:2 BT2020 report from the player ?

If I set 12bit 4:2:2 BT2020 (not a mode I would use), that’s what is reported.

Last edited by Whirlpool0548; 11-25-2018 at 12:15 PM.
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